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  #1  
Unread 02-03-2010, 10:38 AM
tizer tizer is offline
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Effeminate traits in a man

I was wondering if anyone has observed effeminate traits in a heterosexual man in their chart. Would a cancer moon or asc suggest this character, or is that far too simplistic?

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Unread 02-03-2010, 11:45 AM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

Interesting question...............

I think that some men with Cancer Moon may seem/appear effeminate, but I'm sure this is not universally so.
eg some men with Cancer Moon:
  • actor/writer/director, Richard E Grant, who is hetero, but very sensitive, and so gives off a kind of effeminate air.
  • writer/broadcaster, Melvyn Bragg; sensitive, but not effeminate
  • my niece's husband; grew up in Darwin, so despite being a sensitive man, he is also very blokey, and not at all effeminate..... (but he really loves his mum!!)
My youngest son is very sensitive, hetero, and comes across as slightly effeminate, and was teased while in high school with names like fag, etc. He has quite a few planets in his 12th house, including Sun, Mars, Venus - i.e. personal planets.

I would be more drawn to 12th house planets, as effeminate traits in hetrosexual men tend to come from the unconscious. My son grew up in small town Australia, and found the value system of his peers really hard to take.
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Unread 02-03-2010, 12:08 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

I have had a few heterosexual friends with effeminate traits.I too have noticed a connection with planets in cancer-especially the moon and also venus in Libra has come up a few times. I don't have many charts to look at in relation to this, but the few I do have, show Libran ascendants or venus in h1.
One has mars in Libra in h12 and one has sun in Libra in h12, which is similar to your observations R4ven.
A lot also depends on our definition of *effeminacy*.My own interpretation for the sake of this exercise, was to consider such things as interests in things usually considered mainly female, sometimes vocal quality is part of it, style of dress etc.
But its a blurry area these days, and it might help us Tize, if you describe your understanding of the term so we're all on the same page.
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Unread 02-03-2010, 12:17 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

Hi there,

I have read many astrologers saying that a male with a feminine moon
often makes him appealing to women...it adds a certain something. I've
Cancer rising and people say that they can see those traits a mile away,
and I think it's still very difficult for other masculine placements to overpower
that...I've many Aries/Capricorn effects but it still comes through a Cancer Rising window...but for the record, since you mentioned sexuality, I'm not straight. And many guys I've seen with very feminine placements like that who
were straight just seemed to hide that aspect around other guys, only let girls
see...
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Unread 02-03-2010, 12:24 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

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Originally Posted by lillyjgc View Post
One has mars in Libra in h12 and one has sun in Libra in h12, which is similar to your observations R4ven.
My son has both these - i.e. Mars and Sun in Libra in 12th.
It seems to imbue him with an unconscious - and so quite powerful - requirement for balance in all things, which spills over into his personal life, and also the way he projects himself into his environment. eg. he never ever does that bloke-thing of taking charge even when no-one wants him to - he always checks with others to see what they require.

I know a number of hetero men who are significantly effeminate - unfortunately I do not know their birth details.

Yes, an idea of what is meant by effeminate would help. For me, I would class it as thinking about a man: Is he gay? - which is what I thought when I first saw an interview with Ricahrd E Grant.
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Unread 02-03-2010, 12:36 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

Moon in Pisces in 6th trine Mars in Cancer. This is my man. He is double Virgo.He is adored by all women he meets just because he understands them so well. They cry out on his shoulder, honestly!, and he listens, perfectly understanding their chagrin. I always have to laugh when he tells me all their problems in their lovelife, wondering how on earth he has the patience to listen to all that womentalk. Great to have around when you feel sick, goes out of his way to help. Only thing he does not understand is why women love soaps, like Eastenders, Top Models, Coronation street etc.
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Unread 02-03-2010, 01:23 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

i noticed a few males with virgo suns/moons/or ascendants who are SLIGHTLY more feminine. also, i always wondered if a male had an ascendant or moon in libra or taurus would that perhaps make them more feminine in their look/gestures, etc since those signs are ruled by venus? same goes for women with an ascendant/moon that is ruled by mars being a bit more masculine? i've seen a few females with scorpio moons/suns that are more tomboyish but then again i guess it also depends on mars and venus in their charts too..
just my 2 cents
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Unread 02-03-2010, 01:48 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

Typically if a person has more feminine placements (planets in Taurus or Virgo, Pisces and Cancer, with Capricorn and Scorpio being unofficially quite 'masculine' in my opinion - the rulership of Saturn and Mars respectively) or the essential dignity of the feminine planets (Moon, Venus, Mercury if affected by either or by sign) are strong and influencial, they will have more 'feminine' characteristics, and vice-versa. It takes a fairly strong polarity to effect a person strongly one way or the other, and in my experience, seems to be irrespective of physical sex. This is more an indication of 'polarity', rather than specific gendered behaviour, imo. Mercury, as the ruler of the 'animal soul' or primal self, has a strong influence on gendered expression, I find. Its placement and aspects seem to be quite significant in a lot of charts I've read, as is the ruling planet of the chart.
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Unread 02-03-2010, 01:52 PM
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Smile Re: Effeminate traits in a man

Quote:
Originally Posted by R4VEN View Post

I know a number of hetero men who are significantly effeminate - unfortunately I do not know their birth details.

Yes, an idea of what is meant by effeminate would help. For me, I would class it as thinking about a man: Is he gay? - which is what I thought when I first saw an interview with Ricahrd E Grant.
Well, I'm not sure if this particular description will help hit the nail on the head, since, of course, not all gay guys are effeminate, and not all straight guys are masculine, and I think it was Starlink who made an excellent point about what is 'masculine' or 'feminine' now? The lines are blurred. But of course it could be helpful to think about in which society? In Italy for example, I just don't see any classic 'feminine' traits exposed in males, but in Britain, yes, definitely. The lines between what guys/girls are or show has blurred significantly. But maybe in big countries like the US, all of the above types can be found, depending on state for example.

So, is there a model, a society or archetype? I just can't tell anymore, I never wonder who's gay, the traits are so blurred now. I've met PLENTY of straight guys who were VERY hetero, and plenty of 'masculine' / 'macho' guys who were not straight (though much of that is affectation from my perspective, they often TRY to appear a certain way, and the actual individual is lost behind the smokescreen)...
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Unread 02-03-2010, 02:33 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

What did I mean by effeminate? Well in the most simple form, I suppose a man that you would suspect to be homosexual. Now, what that could actually be is really so broad... So perhaps an inclination towards the more 'feminine' signs could be it. Just the general 'feel' of their expression.

Both examples that spring to mind are virgo suns. One is extremely exuberant and bright in his dress, and has absolutely no qualms wearing pink (or any other 'girly' colour), to the extent that he is often mistaken as gay. He has a cancer ascendant square uranus. Only saturn is in the 12th house. The other I don't have the chart for, but the way he expresses himself is very camp, even the way he runs! He's also mortally sensitive about his sexuality and hates being wound up about this.

As HeyPlayGirl said, on the flip side, I have lots of Scopionic influence and would certainly agree that I'm on the masculine side of femininity!!

Last edited by tizer; 02-03-2010 at 02:41 PM.
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Unread 02-03-2010, 04:13 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

I can relate to this, but I hate it. Even my own grandma has accused me of being gay. And instead of coming to my defense, another family member of mine just says things like "let him to what he wants, he's an adult". Another friend of mine has said to me "I don't care if you're gay". Although we were talking about other people, I know she was trying to very delicatly address that towards me. Then later she said something about how my mannerisms reminded her so much of her gay brother. Why would I remind you of gay people??

Don't get me wrong, I love the gay community, but I would definitley prefer to not be mistaken as one of them for the simple reason that I'm not gay. I know that most people know I'm straight, but I still find it dissapointing that some people who are close to me would have such misconceptions.

I've seen the 12th house mentioned in this thread a few times. I personally never really associated that house with effeminancy, but in equal house I do have 3 outer planets there. And on there other side of my chart I have 4 personal planets in Virgo, and a Libra moon. But yet, I never saw myself as an effiminate person...despite the skinny jeans.
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Unread 02-03-2010, 08:23 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

A Cancer Moon doesn't mean effeminate and yes, that is far too simplistic, though Cancer and the Moon are considered somewhat feminine. Would you describe Keanu Reeves effeminate?

I'd actually be looking for more Libra, Pisces, maybe even Leo placements (no, Leo's not usually considered feminine, but I think a strong Leo can be more sexually unrestrained, all the fixed signs actually). I find that Venus, while arguably the most feminine planet of all (psychologically speaking, not the female/mother archetype most say the Moon is supposed to be) works the opposite way in a male chart and if angular or combust and makes him more consciously unfeminine, yet if her sign and exaltation are strong (Libra and Pisces) the feminine aspect of his personality still shines through, also if Venus positively aspects the ascendant.

I think If we're talking about a person's sexuality we must also look at the 8th house, Pluto, whatever aspects Venus makes and the condition of the rulers of the 5th, 7th, 1st and 8th house. Vesta is also supposed to be related to sexual issues and Chiron of course is psychological healing and issues and stuff like that. Some people would say Mars too, but I think Mars is more about action first, then sex and lust later.
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Unread 02-13-2010, 07:38 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

Quote:
Originally Posted by tizer View Post
I was wondering if anyone has observed effeminate traits in a heterosexual man in their chart. Would a cancer moon or asc suggest this character, or is that far too simplistic?
I think effeminate traits-well, the "visible" traits, in general, can only be seen through the Ascendant-its position by sign, aspects to planets, and maybe, to a lesser extent, planets in the 1st house.(if you really wanna go deep, you can take planetary pictures involving the AC and declinations into account, as well).

Since I cannot refrain myself from considering both Sidereal and Tropical placements, I am gonna say that Tropical Libras and Sidereal Virgos are usually effeminate-looking.(think Alain Delon and Leonardo Dicaprio).

However, I'm guessing there are aspects to the AC that can weigh more in masculinity. Like a Libra Rising conjunct Mars might be more "macho".

Whether a man acts effeminate or not is a different issue. I find it funny ever now and then when I see a Sag Rising who acts manly just to live up to his image, when, in fact he's a Cancer with a Libra Moon...lol

I guess what makes a man actually "feel" more on the feminine side is a Venus-Moon aspect. These are the typical ladies' men.
Unfortunately, they can be major womanizers who love all women and no one woman in particular..
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Unread 02-13-2010, 07:59 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

Here's a Cancer on the right:
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Unread 02-13-2010, 08:11 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

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Originally Posted by LeadLeftHand View Post
Here's a Cancer on the right:
And have you ever heard him talk? That lisp is hardly the most masculine thing you'll hear but that doesn't have to be down to his Sun sign.

I don't believe anyone suggested that Sun Sign Cancerians are effeminate, but there was a suggestion that the Moon sign Cancerians might be. I'd expect it to be a much more complex set of aspects or delineations that something that simple.
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Unread 02-13-2010, 08:18 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

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Originally Posted by Inside Out Orange View Post
And have you ever heard him talk? That lisp is hardly the most masculine thing you'll hear but that doesn't have to be down to his Sun sign.

I don't believe anyone suggested that Sun Sign Cancerians are effeminate, but there was a suggestion that the Moon sign Cancerians might be. I'd expect it to be a much more complex set of aspects or delineations that something that simple.
Who cares? Literally half of his life was dominated by being a king in a masculine trade. He's a prime example of a Cancer type who was moar masculine than most people will ever be.

From what I seen so far lots of Cancer male types have an exaggerated alpha male personality. Libras and Virgos are "fruity".
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Unread 02-13-2010, 08:32 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

Cancers are teddy-bears.

but you can't just base your observations on sun signs..there's more than that to a chart.
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Unread 02-13-2010, 08:44 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

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Originally Posted by MantisReligiosa View Post
Cancers are teddy-bears.

but you can't just base your observations on sun signs..there's more than that to a chart.
This is true. Bill Clinton is loaded with Libran energy, but I wouldn't call him a girly man. He just seems to know how to work women.
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Unread 03-28-2011, 06:06 AM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

Mars in Virgo in a man's chart, hands down. I've known several men, two of whom were old loves, who have what would I consider an effeminate nature. None were gay, but a certain j'nais c'est quai that lended itself to this determination.
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Unread 03-28-2011, 06:44 AM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

Thats funny that this subject has been brought up.. I recently met a Libra Man.. My first impression of him, was he's a bit to feminine... I thought I wonder if he's bi... Or if he's just trying to find himself... Im 100% sure someone has asked him, if he was gay... I wanted so bad to ask... But I didnt want to mess with that male ego... lol... So I contiuned to talk to him.. He's SOOO not gay! lol.. (even though he does come across even more feminne the more I got to talk to him)

I dont know his time... But I was actually guessing a Scorpio asc.. or a Libra asc... He has ver strong bone structure..

His moon is in Cap.. I checked the entire day.. Its cap..

He has a Libra Stellium of
pluto,mars,uranus, sun
Merc in Scop
venus in Virgo
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Unread 03-28-2011, 09:29 AM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

My best friend ever had the same sun moon placements as I. He was asc and sun leo, pisces moon, cancer venus. A musician and pianist. A big guy (huge bones) with gentle ways, his talk, his walk, his whole being was sooo effeminate and perhaps childlike. And he didn't worry any at all about it.
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Unread 03-28-2011, 04:37 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

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Originally Posted by tizer View Post
Both examples that spring to mind are virgo suns. One is extremely exuberant and bright in his dress, and has absolutely no qualms wearing pink (or any other 'girly' colour), to the extent that he is often mistaken as gay. He has a cancer ascendant square uranus. Only saturn is in the 12th house. The other I don't have the chart for, but the way he expresses himself is very camp, even the way he runs! He's also mortally sensitive about his sexuality and hates being wound up about this.

This almost describes a friend of mine ... He has Virgo Sun, Cancer Moon and Saturn square Uranus in 12th house. He's shy, loves colour and he understands me better than some of my women friends !
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Unread 03-28-2011, 08:35 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

even though libra is a masculine sign,it is still ruled by venus. Most guys i know with lots of planets in libra are very effeminite. moon in libra charms the ladies like no other! Also if there are lots of water and feminine planets (neptune/venus) ruling the chart
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Unread 03-31-2011, 07:46 AM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

Quote:
Originally Posted by tizer View Post
I was wondering if anyone has observed effeminate traits in a heterosexual man in their chart. Would a cancer moon or asc suggest this character, or is that far too simplistic?
I have Cancer Ascendant and Venus conjunct my Asc. in the 1st but I also have Mars in the 12th in Cancer conjunct my Asc.

I'm not vaguely effeminate, although I'm an excellent dancer, graceful in general and have a pretty boys face.

I think you have to consider what the word "effeminate" means and how boys are shaped beginning in school to think if they "act" a certain way they're gay or effeminate. And many of them, like most people, follow the label or box they're given by "the majority", whether it's announced or just relentlessly hinted.

I had a neighborhood friend who was like that. When we were all 5, 6 and 7, there was no real difference between us except he was smaller and not quite as athletic as the rest of us- but he wasn't gay. But as the years passed, he started spending more and more time with girls and by high school he thought he was gay.

I think the Stars set the table but the expression is conditioned by a given culture. And in today's American culture, grace and taste are viewed as "effeminate", and being crude, unkempt, boy-like, slob-like and apathetic are "masculine" traits. This is easily the most ridiculous and ignorant perspective possible. But that's what Hollywood and the fashion industry are telling American men. Personally, I find it disgusting.

Last edited by MasterBuilder224; 03-31-2011 at 07:54 AM.
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Unread 03-31-2011, 12:33 PM
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Re: Effeminate traits in a man

That is a very interesting perspective, and view into particular things, masterbuilder. How interesting! And you seem to have a refreshing confidence, mature perspective and understanding of gender roles and to sexual orientation.

How true, society has some crazy ideas on what it is to be a man/woman, heterosexual/homosexual/ and is generally unsure about bisexual, from what I can see.

I think your Mars touching the ASC affects your Venus on the ASC. And they're Cancer, you say? How very Angelina Jolie! I often think about how these arrangements have affected her physical makeup, and doesn't she have many distinct features!

You say many things there which raises many questions...and think there would be good conversation there! I began a course in sociology here and felt thrilled to find a constructive outlet for this kind of thought.

Last edited by byjove; 03-31-2011 at 12:36 PM.
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