I’m always in detriment or fall

You know what *****? Most times when I do horary or look at natal charts I’m represented as a planet in fall or detriment. Rarely am I ever in rulership or exaltation. Why oh why would god curse me to be this way. Why am I seen as so weak, or, if I am weak then why am I so weak. Why can’t I be exalted in something. Feeling rather sad 😩.

Abby83 said:

You know what *****? Most times when I do horary or look at natal charts I’m represented as a planet in fall or detriment. Rarely am I ever in rulership or exaltation. Why oh why would god curse me to be this way. Why am I seen as so weak, or, if I am weak then why am I so weak. Why can’t I be exalted in something. Feeling rather sad 😩.

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Consider posting your chart on our Vedic forum
you may discover a different perspective that is more encouraging

House placement is usually more important. The so called accidental dignities were more important in the classical age. Lilly seems to give the essential dignities more attention. You have to go by your own experience when reading charts. Astrology takes time to learn.

Abby83 said:

You know what *****? Most times when I do horary or look at natal charts I’m represented as a planet in fall or detriment. Rarely am I ever in rulership or exaltation. Why oh why would god curse me to be this way. Why am I seen as so weak, or, if I am weak then why am I so weak. Why can’t I be exalted in something. Feeling rather sad 😩.

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Dear, dear Abby.
You are not cursed or seen in this way. The charts are just reflecting the overarching challenges with which you are living: your MIL, the back and forth with your husband. It is not who you are, just what you are working through right now.
What is important is not what comes your way or how you are described, but how you react to it. Meeting all of it with as much love as you can, especially toward yourself for all that is being asked of you at this time, is what will allow you to react in a way that causes you no additional suffering than the circumstances over which you really have no control.
I am very sorry you are feeling sad, my friend. But do not let a depiction in a horary chart color the truth of the inherent, pure goodness that resides within you.
I send you my very best in this season of gratitude and light,
Ilene

House placement is usually more important. The so called accidental dignities were more important in the classical age. Lilly seems to give the essential dignities more attention. You have to go by your own experience when reading charts. Astrology takes time to learn.

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I cannot agree with the part that house placements are more important. House placements are only important because planets rule them and sometimes sit in them. Therefore their planetary strengths are very important.

However, even if a planet ruling a particular house is weak, it can still do the native good, say, for instance, if it is in an aspect to a strong/dignified/exalted planets or to the likes of the Sun/Jupiter/Venus.

I have a weak Moon and Sun - but that does not mean I am cursed. I am the best human being on earth you will have the pleasure of meeting . Weak planets also mean that you have lessons to learn in order to become a better person yourself. Cursing oneself or life is hardly the right way to do it. Learning means growing and growing means progress.

There is NO chart on this earth that will not have a couple of debilitated planets, or at least planets aspect by Saturn or Mars or the outers (which are also considered more malefic than benefic).

aquarius7000 said:

I cannot agree with the part that house placements are more important. House placements are only important because planets rule them and sometimes sit in them. Therefore their planetary strengths are very important.

However, even if a planet ruling a particular house is weak, it can still do the native good, say, for instance, if it is in an aspect to a strong/dignified/exalted planets or to the likes of the Sun/Jupiter/Venus.

I have a weak Moon and Sun - but that does not mean I am cursed. I am the best human being on earth you will have the pleasure of meeting . Weak planets also mean that you have lessons to learn in order to become a better person yourself. Cursing oneself or life is hardly the right way to do it. Learning means growing and growing means progress.

There is NO chart on this earth that will not have a couple of debilitated planets, or at least planets aspect by Saturn or Mars or the outers (which are also considered more malefic than benefic).

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I just wish I could be seen better by certain ppl that I love and admire. It ***** when it's one sided. And the significator is often touching malefics in the horary. But I guess I can keep telling myself I'm wonderful if that means anything at all. I mean ive always liked myself so I cant understand why I'm not viewed or received in the same way.

IleneK said:

Dear, dear Abby.
You are not cursed or seen in this way. The charts are just reflecting the overarching challenges with which you are living: your MIL, the back and forth with your husband. It is not who you are, just what you are working through right now.
What is important is not what comes your way or how you are described, but how you react to it. Meeting all of it with as much love as you can, especially toward yourself for all that is being asked of you at this time, is what will allow you to react in a way that causes you no additional suffering than the circumstances over which you really have no control.
I am very sorry you are feeling sad, my friend. But do not let a depiction in a horary chart color the truth of the inherent, pure goodness that resides within you.
I send you my very best in this season of gratitude and light,
Ilene

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Thanks Ilenek. I'm happy you said it's seen more as challenges you experience than anything else. But challenges doesn't attract ppl does it. It's a repellent. So it sounds to me like it means that ppl who are in detriment/fall and aspect malefics need to spend a lot of time in solitude cos their value is not received well by others. You say I need self love and others have said this to me in my horaries too. Self love isn't enough for me though. I want others to love me too.

The one chart I have seen myself as a good placement is my mother's chart where I am Jupiter in cancer in 12th. And her life is terrible so it makes sense I'm highly loved with her.

Abby83 said:

Thanks Ilenek. I'm happy you said it's seen more as challenges you experience than anything else. But challenges doesn't attract ppl does it. It's a repellent. So it sounds to me like it means that ppl who are in detriment/fall and aspect malefics need to spend a lot of time in solitude cos their value is not received well by others. You say I need self love and others have said this to me in my horaries too. Self love isn't enough for me though. I want others to love me too.

The one chart I have seen myself as a good placement is my mother's chart where I am Jupiter in cancer in 12th. And her life is terrible so it makes sense I'm highly loved with her.

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Love is a very mysterious thing, paradoxical in ways. Our understanding of its many facets and manifestations, though limited, continues to evolve and grow as we do.

The deal is, Abby, that you have to love yourself not only before others can love you, but before you can truly love others. So if you want others to love you, now you know what you need to begin better cultivating.

And if planets that signify you are in detriment/fall, it only means that they/you do not function as they/you would if they were not in detriment/fall. That they/you are modified at this time. It doesn't mean that you can't show your face or you need to spend time in solitude. It means that you need to find greater understanding of yourself and the circumstance. And that all begins by loving yourself. Honestly.

I hope you can open yourself to just consider what I am saying.

IleneK said:

Love is a very mysterious thing, paradoxical in ways. Our understanding of its many facets and manifestations, though limited, continues to evolve and grow as we do.

The deal is, Abby, that you have to love yourself not only before others can love you, but before you can truly love others. So if you want others to love you, now you know what you need to begin better cultivating.

And if planets that signify you are in detriment/fall, it only means that they/you do not function as they/you would if they were not in detriment/fall. That they/you are modified at this time. It doesn't mean that you can't show your face or you need to spend time in solitude. It means that you need to find greater understanding of yourself and the circumstance. And that all begins by loving yourself. Honestly.

I hope you can open yourself to just consider what I am saying.

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I’m definitely open to what you are saying and new ways of thinking. I need help in thinking positively about the situation. I’m really down right now after questioning ‘why on earth am I here? To suffer?’ Firstly, when it comes to the guy from my past I have fond memories of him yet he has the opposite. He thinks of me horribly. He thinks I’m low and a loser and a nobody. That really hurts coming from someone you only had beautiful thoughts of. Someone I admired and thought highly of as seeing me as nothing. So I’m trying to find a positive. I think I’m really lovely. When you say love yourself, do you mean stuff like doing the things you enjoy and looking after yourself as well as reaffirming yourself when others put you down?

Abby83 said:

I’m definitely open to what you are saying and new ways of thinking. I need help in thinking positively about the situation. I’m really down right now after questioning ‘why on earth am I here? To suffer?’ Firstly, when it comes to the guy from my past I have fond memories of him yet he has the opposite. He thinks of me horribly. He thinks I’m low and a loser and a nobody. That really hurts coming from someone you only had beautiful thoughts of. Someone I admired and thought highly of as seeing me as nothing. So I’m trying to find a positive. I think I’m really lovely. When you say love yourself, do you mean stuff like doing the things you enjoy and looking after yourself as well as reaffirming yourself when others put you down?

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Yes, definitely.

Here's what I do--

I have Sun and Venus opposing Saturn. This means naturally or by some instances, people, events and environments have caused me too look at myself and at my self worth in a debilitating way. I'm highly insecure, I put others first and disregard my needs as nothing because I thought I "wasn't deserving of anything", I lacked self-love and self esteem that this made me clingy, too attached, dependent and hypersensitive. During my Pluto transit to ascendant, I isolated myself that I was often seen as a loner. I entertained so much dark thoughts... suicidal thoughts were at its peak during my first ohase of the transit.

But thanks to all that pain I experienced, I somehow found a way to turn that pain into regeneration. (i have many scorpio placements and a few 8th houses). I changed and slowly saw this strength within myself. I took pride on it and started teaching/encouraging others to do the same.

Learning how to self-love after years of drowning yourself in pity and darkness is a TOUGH job. It takes time. But time heals all wounds. When you are finally able to do that, you'll vibrate in such a positive energy that it will attract the good people in your life, and these will be the people who will make you better as well! I experienced this indeed. After I started the process of self-healing and love, I started attracting friends and loved ones who are really a good influence on me. You will also start attracting the kind of love you deserve as well. So it's true when they say that you have to love yourself first before you start asking it from others.

You have make yourself seem worthy of it. but then again, we are always meant to have it in this life.

Jupiterasc is riight. Maybe looking at your vedic chart will have a more positive effect. For example, I have Venus in Scorpio, that's in detriment right? When I look at my Vedic chart, I have Venus in Libra. In it's own placement and rulership. That's a huge step up! Haha but I do this and just merge both Venuses, seeing that I can still relate to both anyway.

It's also true when we have planets in fall or detriment, we have a lot to learn. Ha, talk about the planet of Karma and Time, Saturn. I have it in Aries. It's in fall and it's my chart ruler-- and its also in my 4th house. It's actually a very painful placement for me, and I've already experienced a lot to have learned a lot as well. So I don't see this as a weakness, rather a blessing in disguise. People who have it easier, will suffer a lot in times of dire need and bad transits, and maybe with us who struggle more, can come out better.

Not to say that we have to look down on people who have better planetary placements.

UraSatVen1029 said:

Yes, definitely.

Here's what I do--

I have Sun and Venus opposing Saturn. This means naturally or by some instances, people, events and environments have caused me too look at myself and at my self worth in a debilitating way. I'm highly insecure, I put others first and disregard my needs as nothing because I thought I "wasn't deserving of anything", I lacked self-love and self esteem that this made me clingy, too attached, dependent and hypersensitive. During my Pluto transit to ascendant, I isolated myself that I was often seen as a loner. I entertained so much dark thoughts... suicidal thoughts were at its peak during my first ohase of the transit.

But thanks to all that pain I experienced, I somehow found a way to turn that pain into regeneration. (i have many scorpio placements and a few 8th houses). I changed and slowly saw this strength within myself. I took pride on it and started teaching/encouraging others to do the same.

Learning how to self-love after years of drowning yourself in pity and darkness is a TOUGH job. It takes time. But time heals all wounds. When you are finally able to do that, you'll vibrate in such a positive energy that it will attract the good people in your life, and these will be the people who will make you better as well! I experienced this indeed. After I started the process of self-healing and love, I started attracting friends and loved ones who are really a good influence on me. You will also start attracting the kind of love you deserve as well. So it's true when they say that you have to love yourself first before you start asking it from others.

You have make yourself seem worthy of it. but then again, we are always meant to have it in this life.

Jupiterasc is riight. Maybe looking at your vedic chart will have a more positive effect. For example, I have Venus in Scorpio, that's in detriment right? When I look at my Vedic chart, I have Venus in Libra. In it's own placement and rulership. That's a huge step up! Haha but I do this and just merge both Venuses, seeing that I can still relate to both anyway.

It's also true when we have planets in fall or detriment, we have a lot to learn. Ha, talk about the planet of Karma and Time, Saturn. I have it in Aries. It's in fall and it's my chart ruler-- and its also in my 4th house. It's actually a very painful placement for me, and I've already experienced a lot to have learned a lot as well. So I don't see this as a weakness, rather a blessing in disguise. People who have it easier, will suffer a lot in times of dire need and bad transits, and maybe with us who struggle more, can come out better.

Not to say that we have to look down on people who have better planetary placements.

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Thanks for your positive experience .

Can you give some examples of how you psychologically changed your way of thinking when you were depressed? Like when you felt unworthy in the face of others how did you make yourself feel better. I cant handle knowing others have easier life than me. Like it bothers me when I see charts wo are more successful in life had a much easier life. Im jealous of that. How can I improve those thoughts?

UraSatVen1029 said:

Jupiterasc is riight.
Maybe looking at your vedic chart will have a more positive effect.
For example, I have Venus in Scorpio, that's in detriment right?
When I look at my Vedic chart, I have Venus in Libra.
In it's own placement and rulership.
That's a huge step up! Haha but I do this and just merge both Venuses, seeing that I can still relate to both anyway.

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Thanks for the validation

Abby83 said:

Thanks for your positive experience .

Can you give some examples of how you psychologically changed your way of thinking when you were depressed?
Like when you felt unworthy in the face of others how did you make yourself feel better.
I cant handle knowing others have easier life than me.
Like it bothers me when I see charts wo are more successful in life had a much easier life.
Im jealous of that.
How can I improve those thoughts?

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Blaze has an answer for you
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=836622&postcount=459

Blaze said:

It's no secret, heh.

I don't know what depression or suicidal thoughts are anymore.
Used to have those daily as my mind could not comprehend how cruel society is in reality.
"Why do humans treat each other how my mind says they shouldn't?"
was the question that caused such thoughts, attachments made
by an overly strong yet undisciplined mind.

Aside from lamenting how horrible humans treat one another at times, my mind was also upset
with the fact that nothing lasts forever.
No matter how good, nor bad, nothing external will last, so
why bother doing anything for anyone?

I now have the happiness and detachment to do things in this world, try to aid others as best as I can
and live, happily, with the knowledge that no matter how much good one does in the world today
tomorrow it can and most likely will change.

There is more, but meditation is a personal journey and words don't do it justice.

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Abby83 said:

Thanks for your positive experience .

Can you give some examples of how you psychologically changed your way of thinking when you were depressed? Like when you felt unworthy in the face of others how did you make yourself feel better. I cant handle knowing others have easier life than me. Like it bothers me when I see charts wo are more successful in life had a much easier life. Im jealous of that. How can I improve those thoughts?

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Believe me, I know that feeling all too well.

I recently just had Transit Jupiter conjunct my Sun and Venus at the same time. I think I also had some transits to Chiron this year. These helped me/aided me to change psychologically, especially the transit Pluto conjunct my ascendant. Jupiter fed me with lots of optimism, Chiron and Pluto made me look deep within me to uncover the truth of how and why I was that way.

What I did was just looking deep within myself. That was the basis of it all. Normally, I was ignorant of how low my self-esteem was or how harsh I was of myself because I thought it was natural, I thought I really was born that way. But no. Many factors made me this way and those factors were with me as I grew older and older, so the effect is really deep and hard to heal. Like Saturn in 4th house. Childhood and family life was tough and painful. But as I started fixing myself, I noticed that my home/family life improved as well. Idk, but this is just what i noticed.

The thing is, its probably because of my ability to really assess myself, dig up the truth that I neglected within me, the natural talent to do some sort of depth psychology. Someone told me this was my strength after they looked at my chart. They told me to really examine the causes of my negative behaviors and thoughts, and I did just that. It also helps that i have Jupiter trine Chiron. I guess this helped me soothe my wounds, ya get me? So after I spent LOTS of time reflecting, isolating myself to just think about how I got to this point and how I can move forward in a better way, I started listing down all of these in my notebook. I labeled it as my "weaknesses". Beside it, I listed down all of the things that I thought were my "strengths". Every now and then, I look at both of these lists to see and review how much progress I made since then. To turn my weaknesses into strengths, I had to think of way to really turn it around... and for me it was just positive thinking. Ha. It would have been very funny for the 16 year old me to actually do that. I've always seen myself as the ultimate pessimist

For example, my tendency to prioritize others, to attach and get possessive. I have abandonment issues. This all came from my father, his immature and irresponsible ways that I've always witnessed growing up. He was often absent, and it affected me more than I wanted it to. So what do I do so that others won't do the same? I try to "measure up" to their standards. I become too giving, neglected my needs and wants, I didn't care about my boundaries, I mimicked other people's personality to pretend that I could get along wth them as well, I basically dissolved my own identity and individuality (Neptune 1st House). I always got deeply sad whenever friends leave or backstab me. Or when my loved ones were always extra harsh, critical or putting their expectations on me. Because of this, I often thought to myself "I'll never be good enough, I don't deserve them/this."

So after I got all of that figured out, I came up with a more positive perspective out of my experiences. Astrology helped a lot! I finally understood how Saturnian I was, how Neptunian I was, and then next, i had to embody my Sun sign in a positive way. Scorpio.
Scorpio and Pluto is often acknowledged by its nature of regeneration, transformation, and its capability to stomach the pain of life and view pain in a beautiful way. This sign loves the dark side. I do have Sun,Venus,Mercury,Chiron in this sign. What i had to do was also embrace my dark side and then crawl back my way into the light. Because of this, I also happily embraced my Pluto transit.

Besides that, I finally got to rediscover who i really am and what I really wanted, what makes me happy and what ignites my passion. I have Leo NN in 8th house. Discovering my NN also played a part in my process of healing and transformation. I discovered that deep down I wasn't just the girl with serious issues of self-esteem, social and family life. I was just this girl with a passion for self-expression and art, and also really hopes to spread love and beauty to everyone/everywhere. I admit, I'm still in the process of getting back into this, because the last time I really was this kind of sunshine was when I was still in preschool. Before life ****** me up haha! But now, I'm very happy with the progress I made so far. Optimism is now my antidote for two things: to combat whenever I relapse and to encourage positive thinking on others-- because that alone really makes me happy.

I still think it's funny how a Cap ascendant like me is now able to use Optimism in a Sagittarian or Piscean way. Sorry if this post was really long. I tend to express my feelings better if I'm typing or writing the words, rather than speaking.

Oh and about the jealousy thing. Life seems to love rubbing it on my face because I'm constantly surrounded with people who have it easier or who have more luck with success. This helped me "lower" my already low self-esteem haha!

But then I think about all the life stories of my role models and idols. They all have one thing in common: they didn't have the best life. Their lives were also filled with pain, struggle and failures. Failure was my biggest fear. Now it's my favorite lesson. The thing about having to receive all of this in life is that later on, when you have conquered the bad times you become stronger. Your progress is better, more brilliant and more impressive. It's like what they say, "No pain, no gain." For myself, I forced myself to grit my teeth, to get my hands dirty and practice patience. This is me embracing my Saturnian/Capricorn side. In fact, my Saturn in Aries is in an Anaretic degree (29) , so this is very emphazised in my life.

So what I can suggest for you is to assess yourself. Identity your weaknesses and strengths. Think of ways to turn things around, to tweak your "weaknesses" and make use of your special abilities. Everyone has these. They just have to discover it for themselves.

Abby83 said:

I just wish I could be seen better by certain ppl that I love and admire. It ***** when it's one sided. And the significator is often touching malefics in the horary. But I guess I can keep telling myself I'm wonderful if that means anything at all. I mean ive always liked myself so I cant understand why I'm not viewed or received in the same way.

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Easier said than done, but still doable - if you are happy/convinced inside about your own karma/actions, then keep at them, and forget what people think. Heart of heart, people that matter, like your blood kith and kin, know you best and know when you are doing something out of malice.

Up until my late twenties, I was always very concerned about my image, what with my Leo Asc., but then I realised one day that there is no way I can make everyone like me, not even if I faked it, although I really wanted that (Venus in 7th and Sun close to Dsc., so too focused on others). Your own conscience should be happy with your karma and that's it. You should be convinced that you are doing the right thing, so that you are at peace with yourself.

I can recommend yoga (but not the jazzy, aerobic Western style, but the real deal - with breathing exercises and the right eating habits, change of lifestyle), but that only works if you do it religiously, like a regimen, and everyday, like you eat and drink every day. Yoga is all about discipline - no. 1, which gives you control over your mind and body. Yoga is not about a fast-mode of jumping around to lose weight. The effects take long to show, but once you have them and have imbibed them, they will remedy you like no medicine on this earth. My Cap Moon much needed that. I will again also recommend spending at least a half hour every day to read The Bhagavad Gita. That combination of Yoga and The Gita is the best medicine (with zero side-effects) you can ever take. My cousin even sends her 5 and 10 year old boys for classes Saturdays and Sundays for that combination - because she wants to inculcate that real goodness in them from the start. Try it. You can always drop it if it doesn't agree with you. Everyone of us will give you advice out of the goodness of our hearts, but we are not in each other's shoes, so the same advice might not apply to all. However, that combination always works. I am speaking form my own experience and that of close friends and family.

Aquarius7000 is right. We can't please everyone. And besides, why really stick with people who don't appreciate you?

This was also my problem as well. Don't let yourself fall into the same trap. Yes, you may love them, but don't waste your time pleasing them too if your think they don't appreciate you enough. Are they your friends? Then at least you have established a friendship. That is still a form of appreciation. But if it really is one sided, then it's not healthy for you.

You have to think again if it really is one-sided. There are some times where we think it's one sided because in our view, we don't see the love and appreciation. And that's the thing, we all express it in many different ways, so how the other shows it may not be in match with yours.

Again, why bother with the people who don't at least give you the time? It's toxic. Break away if you have to, then learn how to love yourself first. By doing this, you'll start expressing yourself the way you were supposed to do so, and then you'll start attracting people who really appreciate you! Be real and authentic to yourself. they don't llove you how you love them? Then **** it. You can still be friendly and loving, but don't dwell on it anymore. Move on and hope for a better person to appreciate you instead!

Abby83 said:

You know what *****? Most times when I do horary or look at natal charts I’m represented as a planet in fall or detriment.

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I'd say being constantly in detriment in horary has everything to do with the circumstances in which you're casting horary charts, and those are the usual kinds of circumstances that impel people to post horary charts on this site. Nobody turns to horary for situations that are working out great. If everything's going well, you don't feel a need for advice.

If you're in a situation that's causing you problems, and they're not problems you can solve on your own, of course you're going to be represented in horary by a hindered planet. That reflects the hindrance you're already experiencing in the situation you cast the chart for.

As for the natal charts, I think that reflects you having people in your life who are challenged by relationships of the type that you have with them--or, more accurately, need that kind of relationship to be different from the usual. If, for example, you have a spouse/partner whose seventh house and/or its ruler is significantly challenged, they're probably going to have some significant challenges, in general, with couple relationships, no matter who they're coupled with. If that person is you, then you get to be represented by that planet.

But challenges are relative. Maybe you're in relationship with someone who needs something different from the usual in that kind of relationship. Maybe you're someone who can provide it.

However, relationship astrology is not that simple. Not even close. Don't boil yourself down to just a planet in someone's natal chart. If you're doing relationship astrology between you and a particular person, look at the big picture: the synastry, the composites, all of that. If you find yourself repeatedly having the same kinds of relationship problems, no matter who you're in relationship with, that's likely to be reflected as a challenge in your own chart, or a result of you suppressing something that's strong in your chart, or both.

Studying your own chart would help you know what to work with. Do you perhaps need a different kind of approach to personal relationships than you've been taking? Different kinds of people than you've chosen before? If that's something you need, being able to take a different approach or make different choices requires self work... and yes, developing self love.

As for the natal charts, I think that reflects you having people in your life who are challenged by relationships of the type that you have with them--or, more accurately, need that kind of relationship to be different from the usual.

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Just to show both sides of the coin because Abby you are grown up enough to face reality. Your own natal fallen planets firstly show the lessons you have to learn in relation to circumstances and other people that disagree with you. As someone earlier said, you have to learn to ignore such energies and just learn your own lesson and leave the rest. That in itself is maturity. You care about what your kids think of you as a mom, or what your mom thinks of you as a daughter. If the husband gives you grief, then there is some learning on both your parts to do. You can never clap with one hand. Just focus on doing the right thing.

As for relationships, or should I say just attraction of the opposite sex, it’s interesting how I usually initially attract the types of men I like, but it never goes anywhere. It’s like god intended for me not to be with them for some reason. Something always interferes.

Aquarius, you mentioned something about malice. Interesting how being bad and experiencing pain is my sexual stimulant. I’m a good person in day to day life, but when it comes to sexual side my thoughts are not exactly, pure.