mars square pluto

Hey everyone. I posted about this a little bit ago, but I think its posted in a wrong spot. So,Im posting again about it here just in case it makes a difference.
I am worried about my mars squared pluto, that Junke has just told me is a T-square, sun conjunct mars, mars square pluto, pluto opposition moon. Can anyone else give me thier input on this? Also, what is the deal with Pluto square itself in Libra in 2009? What does this mean in reference to my natal acspects? Thanks again to anyone else that responds.
(I cant upload on this computer)
my birth info is
Jan 4th 1979
9:13 PM
Peoria IL USA
Sorry about asking twice, just wanted to make sure it was in the right spot.

Pluto can bring up things that are unconsious to the conscious mind and allow for us to deal with certain issues that arrive to the forefront of the transit. It is a time for change and as the planet brings about; transformation. It all depends where the pluto, pluto square takes place.
Mars square pluto, can be as deep as you look at it. Depends on how strong both of the planets are...
It can mean a highly competitive streak or anger and rage...
What does this placement mean to you? Why are you worried it is there, it has been there since you were born, right?
This can indicate a person with extreme endurance and strength or it can indicate a person who has pent up anger, rage...
It is evident that you have researched this placement....how does it apply to you?
Sun mars can make you a leader, with strength and willpower...
Pluto oppose moon can indicate a person who likes do dive deep into emotions and then let them transform the individidual, or it can mean a person who has had a hard traumatic life experience that has left them changed....
What I gather is that these placements can meant that you have been through a lot, your pluto square pluto might bring the experiences you have been through to the forefront, meaning that you will have to deal with the isssues that have surrounded the things in your life that have deeply affected you, however your mars placement might be your strength that has allowed you to endure some tough things in life that may have wounded someone else who was not strong enough.

This may not be too important in your chart as Mars is very strong by sign and Pluto is not unhappy in Libra. It will give impatience and some tendency to want to arrive before you have finished the journey.

Because the Sun is involved you will get into relationships that are competitive, so that friends can become enemies, and sometimes things will just seem to get out of control. You will find yourself frustrated because those around you always seem to make "mountains out of molehills", and what is easy to you seems so hard for others. Be careful that you do not take on more baggage than you can carry ...

nd

isismagdalenne said:

Hey everyone. I posted about this a little bit ago, but I think its posted in a wrong spot. So,Im posting again about it here just in case it makes a difference.
I am worried about my mars squared pluto, that Junke has just told me is a T-square, sun conjunct mars, mars square pluto, pluto opposition moon. Jan 4th 1979
9:13 PM
Peoria IL USA
Sorry about asking twice, just wanted to make sure it was in the right spot.

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The opposition to the Moon is very wide. It is more than 9 degrees.

I have the Mars/Pluto square, in different houses and signs. It does show a person with a hot temper in many charts, but not always.

If you feel that you explode to easily or get unreasonably angry, obviously it's a problem. If this does not apply to you, then simply don't worry about it!

I have natal Pluto in Libra squaring Mars and Sun in Capricorn. I have had an extremely hard life and have endured and overcome much. I also have a quick temper, but it does not last long. Mars Pluto can indicate past history of abuse. So it is always about transforming. You can either follow the dark cycle or use it to grow into someone better

Charm said:

I have natal Pluto in Libra squaring Mars and Sun in Capricorn. I have had an extremely hard life and have endured and overcome much. I also have a quick temper, but it does not last long. Mars Pluto can indicate past history of abuse. So it is always about transforming. You can either follow the dark cycle or use it to grow into someone better

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My anger also does not last long, but the after-effects of losing my temper poison my body for awhile with stomach upset and headaches. So I TRY to avoid going down that road.

My mother had a quick temper and always used "being an Aries" as an excuse for getting much too angry about unimportant things, and much too often. She also used the "this is just the way I am" excuse.

I learned to compete or win battles with her by escalating the anger. We fed on each other. This stop decades before she died last summer, so I'm talking about the past, but it does show how certain behaviors are passed on and are very hard to break. She also had the square. And so did her father, my grandfather…

Charm said:

I have natal Pluto in Libra squaring Mars and Sun in Capricorn. I have had an extremely hard life and have endured and overcome much. I also have a quick temper, but it does not last long. Mars Pluto can indicate past history of abuse. So it is always about transforming. You can either follow the dark cycle or use it to grow into someone better

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Pluto squares are self-isolating, especially Sun square Pluto. The transforming principle you refer to is important. It's almost as if one is confornted by one's shadow and either bows or resists, again a psychological characteristic. It's like a fight within oneself...

Hardship or success in life, and the two are not mutually exclusive, is a very complex issue, involving the whole chart and not just one or two aspects. Indeed the terms "hardship" or "success" are difficult to define - millionaires commit suicide, terminal cancer patients cheer others up.

Astrologers must always be careful to avoid superficial terms because life is not superficial, and personal experience is difficult to describe. Without trying to be flippant, Paris Hilton breaks a nail and it devastates her; a man working 14 hours a day to support six kids has a cheerful outlook (nothing against Paris by the way, just used her to illustrate my point).

Life is psychological, and there are no aspects or chart positions that can prevent anyone from achieving success in its many spheres if that person has strength of will, perserverence, and faith in themselves.

Good insight. However, I used the Mars Square Pluto to show that it can indicate overcoming hardships. I do have other chart indicators also. But the fact that the Pluto in Libra squares the Capricorn stellium (Sun, Merc, and Mars)in house 2 shows overcoming hardships, hard work. This square can also commit great power when it is overcome. I know because of what I have been through that I am of much stronger stock than the average person. Anyways, it is fun to analyse these nuances of our lives. Hope this helped someone. Again the lesson of the square, overcoming it is Sweet!!!

Charm said:

Good insight. However, I used the Mars Square Pluto to show that it can indicate overcoming hardships. I do have other chart indicators also. But the fact that the Pluto in Libra squares the Capricorn stellium (Sun, Merc, and Mars)in house 2 shows overcoming hardships, hard work. This square can also commit great power when it is overcome. I know because of what I have been through that I am of much stronger stock than the average person. Anyways, it is fun to analyse these nuances of our lives. Hope this helped someone. Again the lesson of the square, overcoming it is Sweet!!!

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I have Mars square Pluto in my chart, and I've always blamed it for my short temper and violent tendencies/thoughts. That's a good insight, though...I've never looked at it that way, but it makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you for that.

Quantum said:

I have Mars square Pluto in my chart, and I've always blamed it for my short temper and violent tendencies/thoughts.

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That square is an indication of how we act, not a cause. Once you are aware of what it means (potentially), you have the opportunity to change it, at least to a large degree.

LoneStar said:

I loved him truly, but the unintegrated Pluto was perceived to be VERY DANGEROUS and I had to leave because the power would wield him sometimes, instead of the other way around. I also felt extremely enraged just by being around him sometimes. For no apparent reason... No triggers or anything.... just enraged in his presence. I would get away from him and then feel fine again. The hidden rage was really damaging to be around, especially because there was nothing concrete I could peg the feeling on.

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That would be much more than the Sun/pluto square. Is there any chance you could give us his birth data, a picture, without name? There should be other things in the chart to show abuse and anger/management issues, even if he has been able to control them to some extent.

Sorry, Gaer.

I'm not in contact with him currently and wouldn't post anything of someone elses chart without asking permission first. Even if Arian blocked the name out, I wouldn't feel right about that. Can you tell me, though, what good would a picture do on an astrology board? How would that help? I've never heard of someone asking for a picture before.

You are definately right though: I should clarify: I did not attribute the rage I felt when I was around him to his Sun/Pluto Square in and of itself. The rage I felt around him was I think due to several other redflag issues going on in our synastry: Sun Square Sun, Sun Square SouthNode, Asc square Asc, Moon oppose Moon, etc etc etc. I should have been more clear about that part. I think I misplaced a paragraph ending... I'll go up and re-edit.

Sorry for the confusion.

~Lonestar

LoneStar said:

Sorry, Gaer.
I'm not in contact with him currently and wouldn't post anything of someone elses chart without asking permission first.

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I respect that. It's your choice, and you should stick by it.

Even if Arian blocked the name out, I wouldn't feel right about that. Can you tell me, though, what good would a picture do on an astrology board? How would that help? I've never heard of someone asking for a picture before.

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Excuse me? I have no idea what you mean. I meant a picture of the chart only, with no city, no coordinates, etc.

Were you thinking of a picture of him? As face or what he looks like???

People upload charts all the time of people here but use graphics programs to remove any personal information. I think you misunderstood what I was talking about.

A huge part of the usefulness of this forum comes from the chance to read charts and learn new things. However, since you have already mentioned WHO you are talking about, I do see how posting a chart might seem to be more of an invasion.

Hope you understand where I was coming from now!

Gaer

LOL. Total misunderstanding. My bad.

I must be having an "off" day :

Noting something must be wrong, I went back and re-checked his chart, only to realize and I was seriously understating his aspect: he had Sun/Moon/Mars in a very tight conjunction, all squaring Pluto. So the effects I witnessed and mentioned in the above post were not just Sun/Pluto. Sun/Mars/Moon square Pluto. You were right.

And I did also actually think you were asking for me to post a photograph of him! Obviously that would be very weird. My MercRx/Neptune gets me in trouble with weird misunderstandings like that, I'm starting to realize. Its a little unnerving.

LoneStar said:

LOL. Total misunderstanding
I did actually think you were asking for me to post a photograph of him! Obviously that would be very weird. My MercRx in Aries sometimes gets me in trouble with weird misunderstandings like that, I'm starting to realize.

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No problem.

Gaer

A very interesting discussion of an interesting aspect which I share.

I think SilverFloe made a highly relevant point when she mentioned the house positions being extremely pertinent to this aspect; I went to a very traditional British boarding school in the late 1970s and it was extremely hard as I was sensitive and slight of build, thus I was beaten up and generally physically abused most days for the first two years of my time there. I was utterly miserable and found it very difficult to deal with, and even now I have a tendency to feel quite intensely about it. My Mars in the 3rd squares Pluto in the 12th, hovering around the ascendant; so the school connotation is fairly apparent.

One of the key interpretations of this aspect is that it can attract violence; it is therefore important if you have it to take extra care with channeling your emotions in order to avoid the explosive and utterly devastating Plutonic energy from supercharging the Martian temper and turning it into a murderous rage; I think this is where the potential for violence comes from, since if you are keeping a lid on such rage then in some way you have the potential to bring it out in others.

I am not particularly prone to rages myself; I have had them, mostly when I was much younger than I am now, but I do recognise a tendency to become quite obsessive and intense when I am roused to anger and this is almost certainly Pluto casting a shadow on proceedings. I am sure that - as with any Plutonic square - it is a tricky aspect to turn around, but as ever a compassionate awareness is the key to transforming Pluto (and Mars too for that matter) so other aspects that can channel the negativity are going to be important.

For my own edification, which houses do the planets work in and do you recognise the effects of Mars and Pluto in them at all?

Jeremy

Jeremy said:

One of the key interpretations of this aspect is that it can attract violence; it is therefore important if you have it to take extra care with channeling your emotions in order to avoid the explosive and utterly devastating Plutonic energy from supercharging the Martian temper and turning it into a murderous rage; I think this is where the potential for violence comes from, since if you are keeping a lid on such rage then in some way you have the potential to bring it out in others.

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I agree. I also have the 12th house Pluto to 3rd house Mars square. I think the rage comes from the explosiveness caused by holding in anger. Eventually it has to get out, until we learn to LET it out safely, or not get angry in the first place.

I am not particularly prone to rages myself; I have had them, mostly when I was much younger than I am now, but I do recognise a tendency to become quite obsessive and intense when I am roused to anger and this is almost certainly Pluto casting a shadow on proceedings.

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Again, I echo that. Most of the time my anger came out verbally. I also was pretty good at punching or kicking holes walls, breaking things by smashing them with my hands, but that was almost entirely in the past.

I am sure that - as with any Plutonic square - it is a tricky aspect to turn around, but as ever a compassionate awareness is the key to transforming Pluto (and Mars too for that matter) so other aspects that can channel the negativity are going to be important.

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I agree.

For my own edification, which houses do the planets work in and do you recognise the effects of Mars and Pluto in them at all?

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First of all, we've already talked about the 12th and 3rd houses. I think in the 12th there is an especially strong tendency to hold things in, which potentially makes them even stronger when they get out. Your square is in mutable signs. I wonder just what that means? I have Pluto in Leo square Mars in Scorpio. Those seem especially explosive and destructive to me.

And how do we tell how much of the square attracts violence? Certainly there must be SOME amount of both with the square, not only the temper (the result) but what is done to us or what we experience (probably the cause).

Gaer

Well Gaer, I find this very interesting; maybe we can start a Facebook group for Mars square Pluto sufferers; then once a year we can meet up and have a riot (quite literally!)

I notice that we have other similarities too, Moon conjunct Neptune in the 2nd; don't I know how that is, although I would guess that it's a little easier going in Libra than it is in Scorpio. I get to lose all my possessions (and specifically a lot of old family papers) in floods from time to time, actually just a month ago a blocked culvert in the field behind my house caused my garden to fill with water so it was like a lake; the entire contents of my shed had to go to the tip; you got to love astrology when it is so uncannily accurate like that; even if its no fun having it so irrevocably proven in your own life!

I see also that you've just weathered a second Saturn return in the 12th, I hope you're fully intact? I took up running when Saturn found its way into my 12th house last year, it's horrible having so little free will

As for the Mars/Pluto square I do think I get an advantage, as you say from the mutability of the signs but also the fact that Pluto is near my ascendant feels helpful as I get to express some of that intensity; what I mean is that it gives me an outlet via the ascendant, so I am sure that mitigates the influence somewhat (subjectively speaking). The Scorpionic placement of Mars for you is rightly fascinating as it really lets both Mars and Pluto express themselves as they so like, so I hear you; it sounds potentially explosive indeed! But also maybe there is a benefit in there with Scorpio as at the very least it allows the Plutonic and Martian energies to flow unchecked, or at least not awkwardly, so maybe that is helpful in some way. I'm also intrigued to know if you have siblings and if so, if you are quarrelsome with them or estranged from them at all? That seems to be a common experience for Mars in the third and it certainly tallies with my experience.

You have Uranus angular too, so I see why you are on this message board at all, how does the Jupiter opposition work for you? I think eventually you should be able to make a living out of astrology, at least once you've reined in that undisciplined quality, or am I very wrong?

Questions, questions, how exciting it all is

Jeremy

Jeremy said:

Well Gaer, I find this very interesting; maybe we can start a Facebook group for Mars square Pluto sufferers; then once a year we can meet up and have a riot (quite literally!)

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Sort of "check your square at the door", much like having to remove weapons before entering someplace peaceful.

I look at squares as being like trines, but with one extremely important difference: you have to master the negative energy caused by the conflict. That may happen by age 21, age 50 or age 70. Or never. The square runs in my family, grandfather to mother to me. Anything like that in yours?

I don't want to say too much about other aspects, otherwise we will be introducing enormous topic drift. A Neptune/Moon topic or Neptune conjunct luminaries topic would be very interesting. Saturn return? It ain't over till it's over. Saturn Rx will come within 4 minutes of my natal Saturn before it goes direct. And it HAS been a rough, rough year.

Regarding my Mars/Pluto square: I think the energy is potentally explosive that I had not choice but to get to the root of what it represents. As I mentioned above, it runs in my family. I learned to use my temper as a way of winning, and it's a terribly negative and self-destructive way to deal with the world. My first Saturn return took care of most of that.

Gaer

My brother has it, and I definitely think he needs more compassion. He'll stare you down without a reason, and he gets a kick out of it.