Illegal immigration, do you feel it's a contributing to the US economic problems?

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MaeMae

Banned
The bottom line, in my opinion, is that if a human wants to procreate, s/he should have the responsibility to feed, clothe and house their young. To assume that you can have children even though you can't support them is ridiculous. In California, the number of illegal immigrants getting paid by the State to procreate is a travesty. Most often, they are simply propegating generational povery. The majority of these folks aren't fine upstanding citizens, they are not paying into tax system, they are engaging in criminal or unlawful behaviors and they are getting paid directly or indirectly by the US government to do just that.
The day I can go to another foreign country without permission, get food, home and education and health care without dropping a dime, I will gladly join the Socialists of the world.
But who is going to pay for me to do that, especially knowing I will likely drop 5 or 6 kids into the mix during my lifetime.
Get off your intellectual bents and come to California to see what the reality really looks like. Again, the numbers speak for themselves.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
BTW, because we aren't doing well economically right now, does that erase the past 60-70 years that we have done well, actually thrived but for a slight dip in the 70's as a Capitalist country, or the past 400 years that we have done well overall as a Capitalist country?
And who are "we" in this context?

How have the indigenous people, the original inhabitants of the USA - i.e. the Native American Indians - benefited from Capitalism?
:smile:
 

Vista

Well-known member
And who are "we" in this context?

How have the indigenous people, the original inhabitants of the USA - i.e. the Native American Indians - benefited from Capitalism? :smile:

Us, and in the United States, who do you think? Let me guess, you don't live here right?

[deleted attacking comment - Moderator]
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Us, and in the United States, who do you think? Let me guess, you don't live here right?

Jupiter, I am tired of your quotes and smiley faces, please stop. Just because you are able to find some articles to back up your opinion doesn't make it correct. I could find articles all day long to support my opinion too. The rich do pay taxes.
Vista, I said
Vista, contrary to what you have said, the wealthy do not pay their taxes, instead they employ the best lawyers to help them with tax evasion

More than a million Americans making $200,000 dollars or more do in fact pay their taxes - BUT at the same time thousands of the most affluent individuals and corporations routinely avoid and evade paying billions of dollars in taxes each year.
Obviously SOME Americans pay their taxes! The important fact is that thousands of the wealthiest corporations and individuals do not- this is common knowledge, it is surprising you did not know that.

The thread concerns illegal immigration and USA Vista.

Are you disputing that
the original owners of USA are the Native American Indians who currently are forced to agree to living in 'reservations' on what once was their own land?:smile:

The Native American has a greater complaint against 'immigrants':smile:
 
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Vista

Well-known member
As usual, response below...

Thank you, JUPITERASC. It is indeed true that the wealthiest do not pay taxes and neither do their corporations (General Electric, for example, gets paid millions by the IRS each year, rather than paying taxes). There are plenty of people in the upper middle class (who might mistake themselves as rich) who do pay taxes, but not the upper crust that holds the most wealth. Taxes are for those not born to the ruling class. How about the Bush tax cuts that were continued because the Republican majority of Congress threatened to let Medicaid and Medicare funding run out if the tax cuts for the rich were not extended? Why are there still tax cuts for the rich being demanded, even though most Americans are hurting? Warren Buffet (billionaire number two on the list in JUPITERASC's post) said that he and his wealthy friends have been pampered enough. Guess what Fox News reported the next day? Warren Buffet is a socialist!

How many Millions or Billions does one have to to make before they "qualify" as paying taxes? There are "plenty" of rich people who also pay taxes! Don't lump all of them together because of some. And the tax cuts were extended so more jobs aren't lost. And Warren Buffet and GE the biggest hypocrites of them all. But these are examples of a few, not all as you would have everyone to believe. I am not going to keep arguing with you about the rich not paying taxes, because they do. You can chose to believe what you want.

I must disagree, Vista, that the housing market collapse was the fault of the government... especially considering that most of the decisions that caused it were made by people who were privately motivated. I refuse to believe that the most educated people in the country, born and raised to handle money, were so stupid that they couldn't see what they were doing. The market collapses were intentional and designed, and had as much to do with hedge funds and illegal stock market activity as with loans. Should I seriously believe that the bankers didn't know the loans were bad when they made them? That's why they hire appraisers! They're bankers! There were no accidents.

Who said the bankers couldn't see it? I didn't say that at all. I said the government allowed this to happen by pushing for more lenient mortgage requirements that allowed people who couldn't afford a home to obtain sub prime mortgages with nothing down. The rest of them ran with it including the homeowners who took the loans. It was a free for all. And the Bush Administration tried to put a stop to it but was voted down my the Democratic majority Congress.


Not to be offensive, Vista, but I must assert that you do not understand what I mean about the roofer. You keep assuming that the rich man is a necessity (as every rich man would love for you to do), but anyone with a roof can give a roofer a job. The corporate middle man isn't necessary. When I was a roofer, I personally knew the owner of the company and rode around doing estimates with him. No corporation functions that way. If a roofer doesn't show up, the roof doesn't get done. If the owner of a large corporation doesn't show up, productivity stays the same. That's because the owner of a corporation doesn't actually do anything. The employees run the company, doing all the work and crunching all the numbers. The owner is nothing but a "decision-maker with property." When I was a roofer, I saw my boss bleed. Have you ever seen the blood of a corporate executive? There is a big difference between a day's work and talking with people in an office all day. The rich are unnecessary! Upper classes need lower classes. The lower classes, however, are the ones who can work. The simple fact is the lower classes don't need the upper classes.

The "bird-feeder" approach is a strawman because it obviously doesn't work and there is nothing that says things should ever be that way. A proper instantiation of a socialist society would "teach people to fish," not "give fish." The "give fish" idea is why welfare doesn't work. Of course you can't just turn the government into a food dispenser, but no one has suggested that we should. I think it is the government's responsibility (because it is in the best interest of every citizen) to further education and training of those without jobs to make them more suitable for work that is needed. That's not a "bird-feeder" and it actually would make things better. A capitalist approach, however, cannot make things better because a capitalist would charge for the education and training, again insuring that there are many losers for every winner.

You say it's my choice to work for someone, so I shouldn't be angry that someone provided me a job? Prostitutes suck **** for money. Do you honestly think that most of them chose to be prostitutes? Of course not. It was what they had to do. Are most people working their dream jobs? Of course not. People work where they can because it's what they have to do. People aren't working in **** jobs because they dreamed of being an underling to make someone else money. People are forced to do what they have to do because society provides no other options. The rich don't have to do anything but get to keep all the resources because they were born in a position to exploit others. The poor have to work for as little compensation as possible, doing the most work possible, in the smallest amount of time possible, because this is the way of capitalism. Capitalism = Exploitation.

We seem to be getting further and further from the original topic, so feel free to steer us back toward immigration. I just don't think that we can properly discuss immigration until we all understand the way this country really works.

P.S. Also, if I might be so bold, I would like to recommend a song by Everlast: "What It's Like." If you've heard it before, you need to listen to it again.
I can tell you much of the unemployment in California is directly related to housing and real-estate market. Beyond that the extended unemployment is due to the policies of this Administration. To begin with, the extended amount of time oil is double what it should be which affects every one of us in the form of food inflation as well as transportation; it takes money directly out of people's pockets, and it hurts businesses. Bring oil back down to $50 a barrel by announcing a vigorous campaign on drilling and production right here in this country, approve ANWR and the Canadian pipeline being held up due to politics, and get gulf production up and going full steam again. What happens? Gas prices drop, food prices drop and people have money in their pockets to spend which continues to trickle down. The global warming hoax has destroyed jobs too, not to mention illegal immigration which has taken many good, middle class jobs such as construction(roofing) and diminished what it pays. Now certainly trucking is going to take a significant hit because this administration is letting Mexican trucks travel the country now. How about all those Boeing jobs at the new 787 factory that NLRB won't let open? You want to blame someone for middle class problems? Look at Washington and the corruption; you want more government control? Show me evidence of the government having “our best interest at heart?” They can all be bought and will sign a Bill they know nothing about in order to get their share of “pork.” Talk about prostitution! It’s not about what’s best for the people. These are policies that keep people down and reliant on government, don't go blaming conservatives and wealthy folks who invest, build businesses, and hire people! You know why industries are moving offshore? 35% corporate taxes, expensive energy, abusive labor laws, over regulation on just about everything else! Look at California to see what is happening on the national level. Businesses are leaving this state in droves. It’s terrifying, and you are worried they might get extended tax breaks? Common! With AB32 kicking in and the 33% mandate for "green" energy, the PUC isn't saying this but all that energy will cost double or triple what we pay now. Tell me, why would a business set up shop or expand here with that hanging over their heads? We have the worst economy in the nation and just won the worst run state in the union award, but we certainly have the best and most generous welfare programs in the world that attracts the users and pushes out the producers.


Here is an article that a friend of mine sent to me the other day, it's why Socialism is the "people's choice" but why it doesn't work. I think it illustrates both our opposing views pretty well. But uou are correct, we have gotten pretty far off subject. This is an energy drain and I am pretty sure neither one of us is going to change our opinions on what we think. Thanks for contributing.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0306f.asp
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
How many Millions or Billions does one have to to make before they "qualify" as paying taxes? There are "plenty" of rich people who also pay taxes! Don't lump all of them together because of some. And the tax cuts were extended so more jobs aren't lost. And Warren Buffet and GE the biggest hypocrites of them all. But these are examples of a few, not all as you would have everyone to believe. I am not going to keep arguing with you about the rich not paying taxes, because they do. You can chose to believe what you want.
News from Reuters dated 19 November 2011 :smile:

Switzerland could see a deal within the next three to six months to end a long-simmering dispute over how it will hand over data to the United States on wealthy Americans suspected of dodging taxes, Julius Baer Chief Executive Boris Collardi said on Saturday to Swiss newspaper Le Temps in an interview

U.S. authorities, which suspect thousands of Americans have used Swiss accounts to evade billions of dollars in taxes, have been conducting a widening criminal investigation into scores of Swiss banks, including Credit Suisse.

The Swiss government has been in talks with U.S. authorities for months to seek a deal to get investigations dropped in return for payment of fines and the transfer of names of clients suspected of tax evasion. The Swiss government had hoped that both houses of parliament would address the issue before year-end. But Swiss newspaper NZZ am Samstag reported that the lower house of parliament was in no rush to approve a deal and would only deliberate the proposal in its Spring session in March, against the wishes of the cabinet who want to draw a line under the deal”(Reporting by Caroline Copley) Copyright 2011 Thomson Reuters.





 

Vista

Well-known member
Vista, I said

Obviously SOME Americans pay their taxes! The important fact is that thousands of the wealthiest corporations and individuals do not- this is common knowledge, it is surprising you did not know that.

The thread concerns illegal immigration and USA Vista.

Are you disputing that the original owners of USA are the Native American Indians who currently are forced to agree to living in 'reservations' on what once was their own land?:smile:

The Native American has a greater complaint against 'immigrants':smile:

Jupiter, Did I say at any time that ALL corporations paid their taxes? Maybe you should go back and reread the thread because I clearly said the the rich DO pay taxes and to not lump all of them together for the ones who don't.

I didn't dispute anything, and I seem to recall commenting on it but maybe not. They don't have to live on reservations, they chose to. And our government has tried to compensate for what our forefathers did to them by giving them free college education, free medical care, zero income and state taxes, and allowing them to run gambling establishments. What does that have to do with what we are facing now with illegal immigration from Mexico? I am sure they are just as sick and tired of it as we are. Who cares if their complaint is greater. We are being invaded by third world peasants by the millions. At the rate we are going we will end up a third world country and since the Indian Reservations operate independently of our government, they might have the last laugh after-all.
 

Vista

Well-known member
News from Reuters dated 19 November 2011 :smile:

Switzerland could see a deal within the next three to six months to end a long-simmering dispute over how it will hand over data to the United States on wealthy Americans suspected of dodging taxes, Julius Baer Chief Executive Boris Collardi said on Saturday to Swiss newspaper Le Temps in an interview

U.S. authorities, which suspect thousands of Americans have used Swiss accounts to evade billions of dollars in taxes, have been conducting a widening criminal investigation into scores of Swiss banks, including Credit Suisse.

The Swiss government has been in talks with U.S. authorities for months to seek a deal to get investigations dropped in return for payment of fines and the transfer of names of clients suspected of tax evasion. The Swiss government had hoped that both houses of parliament would address the issue before year-end. But Swiss newspaper NZZ am Samstag reported that the lower house of parliament was in no rush to approve a deal and would only deliberate the proposal in its Spring session in March, against the wishes of the cabinet who want to draw a line under the deal”(Reporting by Caroline Copley) Copyright 2011 Thomson Reuters.

Let's get back on the subject of illegal immigration.
 
Vista,
I have lived in both Europe and USA, and I can tell you our health care system in US is INFERIOR. Europeans travel to USA to get experimental procedures and cutting edge procedures done, but other than that, they are terrified to travel here w/o travel health insurance b/c they cannot fathom what every American faces every day...an accident can erase your life savings. Imagine ALL your prescription drugs (even the most expensive here in the US) being 14 dollars. Every last one of them. In England, I NEVER had to wait to see a doctor...here I make an appointment weeks in advance. In England, my son was offered occupational therapy for his spatial issues (and everything for free) here he must wait months...and it is very expensive. Europe is very much better off than the US in this context.
 

Vista

Well-known member
The bottom line, in my opinion, is that if a human wants to procreate, s/he should have the responsibility to feed, clothe and house their young. To assume that you can have children even though you can't support them is ridiculous. In California, the number of illegal immigrants getting paid by the State to procreate is a travesty. Most often, they are simply propegating generational povery. The majority of these folks aren't fine upstanding citizens, they are not paying into tax system, they are engaging in criminal or unlawful behaviors and they are getting paid directly or indirectly by the US government to do just that.
The day I can go to another foreign country without permission, get food, home and education and health care without dropping a dime, I will gladly join the Socialists of the world.
But who is going to pay for me to do that, especially knowing I will likely drop 5 or 6 kids into the mix during my lifetime.
Get off your intellectual bents and come to California to see what the reality really looks like. Again, the numbers speak for themselves.


But don't you know it's inhumane of us to punish these "poor" people who are only looking for a better way of life?

These people are like vampires, sucking us dry for everything they can get including those "lifer's" on government benefits. But people who don't think they are causing a drain on us economically, maybe they should be the one's responsible for paying for them with their taxes.

Glad someone agrees with me, but then again you are speaking from experience as I am. Unlike others.
 
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Vista

Well-known member
Vista,
I have lived in both Europe and USA, and I can tell you our health care system in US is INFERIOR. Europeans travel to USA to get experimental procedures and cutting edge procedures done, but other than that, they are terrified to travel here w/o travel health insurance b/c they cannot fathom what every American faces every day...an accident can erase your life savings. Imagine ALL your prescription drugs (even the most expensive here in the US) being 14 dollars. Every last one of them. In England, I NEVER had to wait to see a doctor...here I make an appointment weeks in advance. In England, my son was offered occupational therapy for his spatial issues (and everything for free) here he must wait months...and it is very expensive. Europe is very much better off than the US in this context.

I am sure the healthcare system varies from country to country. I have traveled pretty extensively throughout Europe and have spoke to a lot of the people about the healthcare system and it wasn't anything like your experience. I am sure England is much better in that regard. As I said in another post, the Eastern block countries get very basic care, I have no doubt it would be consider pretty barbaric here. I have friends and relatives in Canada, one friend who works in the healthcare industry. Each hospital has so many precedures they can do for each category, let's say a sling for incontinence. The way it works now is that only so many of these procedures are allowed to take place each year so if only 50 slings are allowed per year yet there are 200 people waiting for them, that leaves a surplus in which they get pushed over to the next year and so on. My friend is working for a company that's trying to change this. My mother's cousin had breast cancer and because it wasn't advanced, she had to wait 2 years for removal of the lump. I can tell you it's much better here than that. But what I meant about superior healthcare here in the US, cutting edge technology, the most educated doctors, and the best medicine.

I am not sure why your friends worry when they travel here, all they have to do is walk into an emergency room anywhere in the Unites States and they will be treated. They don't have to provide identification to be seen. It's illegal to turn anyone away.
 

virgo18

Well-known member
I do believe it has a huge impact on California. I would invite all opinions. I realize it is a sensitive subject for many so with that said, if we could state our opinions without attacking other's, I would think this could be a very interesting topic.

I am including arguements from both sides.


http://immigration.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000788

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/05/14/why-americans-think-wrongly-that-illegal-immigrants-hurt-the-economy.html This writer argues the points of why illegal immigration helps the economy

http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigration_economic_costs.html


http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1482
Looks at both sides



I dont think it contributes to USA economic problems. Now days the whole world is facing an economic crisis, and its because of world's finances of the richest people who has monopolistic companies and the overpopulation. USA is a 1st world class country, and there is the heart of world's economy, they manage it as well as Switzerland. USA is one of the last countries facing economic problems because of the crisis world is facing now. Its not about the illegal immigration.
The Mexicans and South Americans are immigrating because the government in our country is corrupted, the richest are getting more richer and the poorest are getting poorer, and the middle-class is getting poor.There aren't job opportunities, and when they appear, its very little the salary and the work its exhausting. The water, gas, light, and telephone fees are extremely expensive as well as gasoline. Its very LAME to see the monopolistic entrepreneurs, and the ambitious politics getting richer because of their monopoly or even because they still the money of the citizens for their own personal benefice. Mexicans are mad toward the country, and even more the poor people. There no jobs, no schools, no hospitals. In the social institutions the employees treat bad the costumers only because is a "social work" and it doesn't cost to the workers and costumers which are poor people, and adding that the employees are not well payed from the politics because they still the money. Its like a vicious circle.
Here the trade union or the syndicate are the ones who rule the country and they are not more than sneaky people that protect their workers in the way they don't do their job in a well manner so if the boss drop out the union trade worker that worker put a lawsuit to the boss of the company and the whole syndicate attack such boss or even the government. In 1st world countries if the worker doesn't do the job well the syndicate kick out the worker from such place.
The drug traffic offers better salary to the poor people so much young men enter to that dark whole. they live live a spam of 3 years being rich and then they get killed by the lord of such business. So the moral people decides to stay here breaking their backs with a low salary. The ones who are more brave decide to cross the frontier to have better opportunities.
When the spanish colonize Mexico they didn't respect the autochthonous people or the indians. They were tortured and even slaves of the spanish, they changes their religion forcefully.
The British who colonize USA did "learn" to respect native Americans.
ALL THIS STUFF COME FROM ANCIENT TIMES. ITS A VERY DEEP ROOT TO DROP OUT.
Well I will not make the story too large:
The thing I can tell you is that much of the latin american countries need EDUCATION! From the richest schools to the government schools. I know very rich and conservative families here in mexico that have a double moral and closed mentality.
But the fact of illegal immigration is:
Latin Americans do help to USA economy. They do work that Americans doesn't want to. (I am not saying that illegal immigration is correct) But it has a reason and that reason is very deceptive, but its not such people fault. It is fault of the government which is trash.
Mid class people from Mexico's frontier cities go shopping to USA, all the time. All their clothes are buyed in texas or california, or new mexico, or arizona.
In resume:
Latin americans are getting USA richer and their own countries poorer.
Im do have the desire to go and live in USA someday for a while... my father is american and my mother mexican. And Im one of those kind of people who do things legally. So If I do it, it will be by the right way.
But I will return to Mexico because I have faith in it, and I believe someday it will be as good as 1st world countries.

Im not in favor of the immigration. Why? Its one of the much reasons Mexico is getting poor. People has to make a revolution towards the govt, and not run away like chicken **** making other countries richer.
Mexicans has to do things LIKE USA, and not run away to USA.
 
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The people I know would NEVER walk into an emergency room for treatment with out paying the bill...inconcivable...they would lie awake at night even if it never affected their credit b/c it's a bill from a foreign country.

That being said, I can totally understand having zero dollars and doing that. What choice would you have?
 
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Vista

Well-known member
The people I know would NEVER walk into an emergency room for treatment with out paying the bill...inconcivable...they would lie awake at night even if it never affected their credit b/c it's a bill from a foreign country.

That being said, I can totally understand having zero dollars and doing that. What choice would you have?


I understand the moral delima, but as you say, what choice do they have?
 

Mark

Well-known member
MaeMae and Vista: Please do try to remember that there are 49 other states. The whole picture looks very different than the conditions of Southern California alone. Most states are not experiencing this problem, no matter how bad it may be on a local level. That doesn't mean it isn't causing unrest and a financial burden, but it does mean that the country will live on. Both of you have made remarks that are complete generalisations at best and could be, if one were so persuaded, interpreted as racism. Is there really too much anger involved to speak of them fairly? Please also remember that anyone who spends money in this country pays sales tax, both state and federal. Perhaps they don't pay income taxes, but they are paying to fix your roads.

General Address: I don't normally bring this up because it doesn't really matter. I'm basically white, however I have Cherokee blood on both sides of my family. I wasn't born on a reservation and I don't know anyone who was, but I do have certain feelings on the matter. Let's remember that before the "trail of tears," the Supreme Court (the highest law in the land) ruled that the disputed land in Northern Georgia rightfully belonged to the Cherokee nation (they were paying taxes on it, after all). The state of Georgia marched away whole towns of people, men, women, and children, with support from federal troops sent by Jackson as "peace-keepers." Before this, hundreds (or thousands, depending on how you count) of treaties were made between the U.S. government and the North American tribes. How many of those treaties did the U.S. government honour? Not one. Not a single one.

I'm not saying that everything was peachy before the white man got here. There were still cities, hierarchies, wars, famine, illness, and in-fighting. There were still plenty of everyday problems to deal with. The red man was killing other red men long before Europeans arrived. It just seems that there was a lot less genocide going on before the white man got here.

Now, as to the bit about "choosing" to live on a reservation, I must be forthright. I want this conversation to be as constructive as possible. I want us all to learn to get along well with each other. So, I tried to come up with some example that would make a proper comparison to your life, but every example I try to make involves raping and killing someone's family, taking their stuff, and then forcibly relocating them, tearing down their homes, and acting as if every bit of it was not just legal, but morally justifiable in the eyes of a caucasian god that you used to destroy their culture. Surely you remember that everything that is not now a reservation used to be the red man's home too, right? You may be sitting on top of one of our ancient fire hearths or something of that sort at this very moment. So, in the spirit of cooperation, **** off. Seriously. **** off.
 

Vista

Well-known member
I dont think it contributes to USA economic problems. Now days the whole world is facing an economic crisis, and its because of world's finances of the richest people who has monopolistic companies and the overpopulation. USA is a 1st world class country, and there is the heart of world's economy, they manage it as well as Switzerland. USA is one of the last countries facing economic problems because of the crisis world is facing now. Its not about the illegal immigration.
The Mexicans and South Americans are immigrating because the government in our country is corrupted, the richest are getting more richer and the poorest are getting poorer, and the middle-class is getting poor.There aren't job opportunities, and when they appear, its very little the salary and the work its exhausting. The water, gas, light, and telephone fees are extremely expensive as well as gasoline. Its very LAME to see the monopolistic entrepreneurs, and the ambitious politics getting richer because of their monopoly or even because they still the money of the citizens for their own personal benefice. Mexicans are mad toward the country, and even more the poor people. There no jobs, no schools, no hospitals. In the social institutions the employees treat bad the costumers only because is a "social work" and it doesn't cost to the workers and costumers which are poor people, and adding that the employees are not well payed from the politics because they still the money. Its like a vicious circle.
Here the trade union or the syndicate are the ones who rule the country and they are not more than sneaky people that protect their workers in the way they don't do their job in a well manner so if the boss drop out the union trade worker that worker put a lawsuit to the boss of the company and the whole syndicate attack such boss or even the government. In 1st world countries if the worker doesn't do the job well the syndicate kick out the worker from such place.
The drug traffic offers better salary to the poor people so much young men enter to that dark whole. they live live a spam of 3 years being rich and then they get killed by the lord of such business. So the moral people decides to stay here breaking their backs with a low salary. The ones who are more brave decide to cross the frontier to have better opportunities.
When the spanish colonize Mexico they didn't respect the autochthonous people or the indians. They were tortured and even slaves of the spanish, they changes their religion forcefully.
The British who colonize USA did "learn" to respect native Americans.
ALL THIS STUFF COME FROM ANCIENT TIMES. ITS A VERY DEEP ROOT TO DROP OUT.
Well I will not make the story too large:
The thing I can tell you is that much of the latin american countries need EDUCATION! From the richest schools to the government schools. I know very rich and conservative families here in mexico that have a double moral and closed mentality.
But the fact of illegal immigration is:
Latin Americans do help to USA economy. They do work that Americans doesn't want to. (I am not saying that illegal immigration is correct) But it has a reason and that reason is very deceptive, but its not such people fault. It is fault of the government which is trash.
Mid class people from Mexico's frontier cities go shopping to USA, all the time. All their clothes are buyed in texas or california, or new mexico, or arizona.
In resume:
Latin americans are getting USA richer and their own countries poorer.
Im do have the desire to go and live in USA someday for a while... my father is american and my mother mexican. And Im one of those kind of people who do things legally. So If I do it, it will be by the right way.
But I will return to Mexico because I have faith in it, and I believe someday it will be as good as 1st world countries.

Im not in favor of the immigration. Why? Its one of the much reasons Mexico is getting poor. People has to make a revolution towards the govt, and not run away like chicken **** making other countries richer.
Mexicans has to do things LIKE USA, and not run away to USA.

Hi Virgo18! Nice to hear from you and to get your perspective on this from the Mexican people's point of view. I do have compassion for your people's plight and what you describe is such a tragedy. But you must know what your people make here in the United States and send home is one of the largest contributions to Mexico's economy? We aren't taking away form your country in the regard we are helping actually. But the other misnomer is that "Mexicans are doing the jobs Americans don't want." That is entirely not true, not anymore, not with nearly 30 million people here. They ARE taking many jobs Americans want far more than what's being reported. They are also depressing wages because they are undercutting Americans wages. The other problem is that most come here and end up on some form of government assistance, which in turn cost the taxpayer's money. They use the emergency room for free healthcare, their children are provided with free breakfast and lunch programs, they receive MediCal if they have a US born child, they also get cash aid and food stamps, all without paying any taxes into the system. All of this is a big drain on the economy particularly the border states like California, Arizona, Texas, etc. They also bring a lot of crime and poverty to the area's too. I understand that for them, it's a much better way of life to what they had in Mexico, but for us taxpayers it's bankrupting our state(I live in California) and draining our social services. I really believe anyone who wants to come her should be able to do so legally, but I also think they should prove that they obtained employment within 90 days so they won't be a drain on government aid.
But I agree, Education is very important and clearly something that needs to addressed in your country. I am sure there is a lot of hopelessness. Somehow your people need to find a way to fight back against the corruption. There is no reason why your country shouldn't be thriving. You have a tremendous amount of natural resources to tap into. I hope things will get better for your people, I really do.
 

tsmall

Premium Member
MaeMae and Vista: Please do try to remember that there are 49 other states. The whole picture looks very different than the conditions of Southern California alone. Most states are not experiencing this problem, no matter how bad it may be on a local level.

Textiles--gone. Manufacturing--gone. Construction--gone (mostly.) But wait...we do still (about 78% of us) depend on foreign oil to heat our homes...We had a decent run in the 90's with the tecno-stock boom...gone.

Northeast/NH
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Textiles--gone. Manufacturing--gone. Construction--gone (mostly.) But wait...we do still (about 78% of us) depend on foreign oil to heat our homes...We had a decent run in the 90's with the tecno-stock boom...gone. Northeast/NH
Sanctions on foreign oil are not helping but are instead simply increasing all prices.

Company after Company is closing because they cannot make the profit margin they used to before oil price increases,

With more and more companies going out of business the result is inevitably increasing unemployment


Increasing unemployment means people cannot afford mortgages so homelessness is on the increase

Increasing homelessness and unemployment means the economy slows because no one is consuming

Capitalism is dependent upon consumption :smile:
 

Mark

Well-known member
I'm not a democrat. Democrats are idiots. So are republicans. Any sane, thinking human being will not end up being the stereotypical image of either one. The two party system is itself being used against the American people. Since you do not bother to consider the feelings and concerns (or writings, for that matter) of individuals other than yourself, I suppose there is no point in further discussion. I at least read all of your post before I decided to withhold response to it. I hope you find a way to lessen whatever burdens you face.

P.S. Because I think you truly don't understand this, let me make it clear. The existence of the reservations is an insult.
 
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