Pluto square Sun and some other things

hmmm what am I doing posting in this section???? Well I thought I would put for consideration some really tough aspects I have regarding Pluto. It is not just Pluto squareing the Sun, Pluto is also conjuncting Uranus and is opposing Chiron, then it also trines Mars. All with 1deg orb approx and tighter.

This all seems some really big strong energies flying around my chart, in mainly mutable signs. Over the past few years I have been developing a really feeling about the energy flowing through my body, and the impact that other's energy has on me. Seems I remove energy from my body myself if others go in for a grab, to deny them yet hurting myself in the process on a physical level. It is a pattern I have just identified. I can have a headache for several days and worse. Doing energy visualisations as I have started now really help retain the stregth and awareness of myself as strong.

So with this in mind I would appreciate anyone throwing in their sixpence on what comes to mind for people. (Oh I had a tough birth not surprisingly, and wondered if I was not sure I wanted to do this trip)

FleaXXX

Sometimes harsh sun-Pluto aspects indicate a dysfunctional relationship with the father, although this seems more likely with the opposition.

Basically you are being challenged [square] ongoingly to transform [Pluto, Uranus] your sense of your own identity [sun]. You may feel that it is hard to maintain a firm sense of who you are because so many pressures to change it are bombarding you--although most of these actually come from within. Hopefully you have some really good outlets to relieve the pressure, whether it is loud rock music or taking up kick-boxing. Something that lets you let off steam through a productive safety valve. Mars trine says, you can do it!

thanks waybread,

painting and meditation are more my style, with regards to the pressure valve. My relationship with my father is good, though has had the usual tension in my teenage years as I fought for independence.

Can relate to changing......I am an ongoing project. I have lots of cycles of pressure building up to make some change....then it shifts in a kind of moment all at once.

I have been looking at fusion as the pluto is conjunct uranus and opp chiron..... have you any thoughts as to how this creates the bigger picture??

FleaXX

flea said:

hmmm what am I doing posting in this section???? Well I thought I would put for consideration some really tough aspects I have regarding Pluto. It is not just Pluto squareing the Sun, Pluto is also conjuncting Uranus and is opposing Chiron, then it also trines Mars. All with 1deg orb approx and tighter.

This all seems some really big strong energies flying around my chart, in mainly mutable signs. Over the past few years I have been developing a really feeling about the energy flowing through my body, and the impact that other's energy has on me. Seems I remove energy from my body myself if others go in for a grab, to deny them yet hurting myself in the process on a physical level. It is a pattern I have just identified. I can have a headache for several days and worse. Doing energy visualisations as I have started now really help retain the stregth and awareness of myself as strong.

So with this in mind I would appreciate anyone throwing in their sixpence on what comes to mind for people. (Oh I had a tough birth not surprisingly, and wondered if I was not sure I wanted to do this trip)

FleaXXX

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Okay, flea, outta left field here.....

Sun in Sag in 6th rules IC. Pluto in Virgo co-rules the 6th house. Pluto tightly conjunct Uranus in Virgo - both on cusp of 5th.

Sun in Sag can show the father gave alot of "one-sided conversations" in the home - in other words - he spoke, and others obeyed. Jupiter (r) in 1st conjunct AC, ruler of DC can show this, as well. Jupiter (r) can show a need to "undo" the communication damage learned in childhood ( IC can also show "soul memory" - what has been habitually learned through many past lives)

Pluto in Virgo - enforced service - conjunct Uranus in Virgo (ruler of MC - the turning point of destiny) shows rebellion against such servitude. Both on cusp of the 5th exactly - a need to tune into these issues to recover your sense of "inner child". Mars in Capricorn, ruler of the 6th, in 8th can refer to all of this as well. Mars in Cap has a heavy burden on its shoulders. Planets in the 8th house need to undergo an transformation. Mars in Cap is very career-oriented - also man-pleasing, subservient, has to be the best. Also in the house of other people's values and money. In the higher vibration - Mars in Capricorn is the defense of the Divine Feminine- respect for and good stewardship of the body and the Earth. The world's system - with Mars in Cap - in the lower vibration - is the antithesis of this.

Mercury(r) in Sag on the SN in the 6th, ruler of the AC, can show an internalized problem with communication, a failure to follow one's own intuition, and faith in making decisions for oneself.

Chiron in Pisces on cusp of 11th can show a feeling of not feeling connected to the group, a constant wounding of connecting in with one's personal visions and dreams. Chiron co-rules the 5th, and so further emphasizes how the inner child feels. It can show a feeling of "not allowed to take a break and rest" - also the combo on the 5th and 11th in Virgo/Pis can show an internalized "inner critic" that feels it has to let others judge one's performance.

Neptune in Scorpio , co-ruler of the 11th, in the 6th further emphasizes the forced labor idea - where one feels they have to "give to get" - issues of obligation and who really owns the supply abound.

Saturn in Pisces in the 10th can show again the need to learn to rest and care for the body - for the respect and healing of the Divine Feminine - (10th house naturally ruled by Cap) - enforcing your right to rest. Also compassion, understanding and forgiveness for men/fathers/etc will get you there.

Overall, it shows a lesson plan to break free from subservience to the male, respect for the Divine Feminine, and to break free from mind control that has been programmed into the body and soul for generations.

And remember - this is your natal chart lessons. I know you are spiritually advance, and am sure you have already realized much of this, and made some inroads into the whole mess.

Basically Sun in Sag square Pluto in Virgo is the transformation of automatically following someone else's decisions and choices made for you that were not in your best interest.

Also - one other thing. Sun in Sag has inherent in it a dis-respect for the Divine Feminine, and wanting to get out of household chores and care for the body and the Earth -- that is, in the lower vibrations. Your task in this life, with Sun in Sag, is to raise the vibration out of these issues. Casual sex is also a "no-no" when raising out of lower Sag vibrations. These issues could be inherent in the father in family of origin, and also in the men you have dated, as well.

Hope this sheds a little light,

Freedomlover

FL,

This picks up quite a lot of things in my puzzle.... The one sided convos make much more sense than any overt angst in the relationship. While at base it is a loving and supportive relationship, I understand the limits of his understanding of me. I also see how confronting I was and my siblings when we grew out of childhood into individual independent beings. My pluto/uranus is right on his ascendent, so it wasn't easy for him.... I see that which I suppose is part of the compssion you talk of.

So the impact is more subconscious, of not ever really getting me or valuing my contribution. I remember family conversations were we (siblings) confronted him on what we saw to be racist or jugemental issues. Though we were able to do this without compromising the family itself, which is an amazing learning tank.

As my spiritual nature becomes more evolved, I find myself searching for ways in which to bring spiritual wisdom into everyday life.... and not float away. This talks about the earth signs.... the feminine mother earth. All in the plan to have pluto/uranus tranforming in earth leading to the shifts.

Yes I do think that the feminine the intuitive was not recognised, tho it is a well developed capacity for me. My father has an air grand trine, a scientist.... so concrete thought, proveable issues. Tho he had develved into people like velikovsky in the 60's.

My journey into the feminine has been profound. I now see I was working in the world, with the belief that women are like men.... there is no difference. This changed rapidly as my body could not do it.... being highly sensitive which I put down to neptune touching just about everything in my chart but mercury, which created the blinkers for the lack of true communication with myself. Also no aspects between sun moon and mercury, which leaves space for em to redefine the way they integrate.

The more respect I gain for the feminine the more i am initiated into the subtlety of the nature of physical living. My father I must mention did not have an easy relationship with his mother, who had a brain tumour during his childhood..... she survived and taught me my amazing lesson about unconditional love from her. She still guides me now. My dad has no earth apart from his ascendent, my grandmother had moon and sun in earth.... exactly the same as my other grandmother. So I look to them for the caring of the body...They inspire me still.

I very much agree with you that this is generations of unraveling, in some ways I can feel quite objective with my chart when I consider the wider humanity picture. I cant remember who said it.... buit there is a quote about loving the soft animal of your body... the sensuality of it, being in it, expressing it, loving it, sharing it.

OH.... casual sex....yep his family had major hangups about it plymouth brethren etc. Yet in my learnings now I see the energy mix ups that happen with casual sex... so am aware of the implications. The clearing the triangles and more of all those energies mixing. Though I dont go in for the guilt trip, just the awareness of how to look after yourself in an energetic sense.

Thankyou very much FL for your considerations... helping me put my picture together....it has revealed much for me. Making sense etc.... I can see the resulting gifts from here....and very beautiful it is.

FleaXX

ps...pluto in capricorn on the bigger field is raising the issue of the divine feminine, after churing up our belief systems that ignore her, cool thx for the insight... my fellow revolutionary!

Flea said:

This all seems some really big strong energies flying around my chart, in mainly mutable signs

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Sun/Mars/Chiron/Uranus/Pluto.............big strong yang energies indeed.....and, "in this family of planets", very much socialising only with each other (at 18-20 degrees).......and ultra-sensitive yin Neptune in Scorpio....Must be quite a drain on the psychic energy of the latter.

And what about poor Venus/Mercury.........usually left alone to enjoy each others company (at 2/3 degrees) but currently being stirred up constantly by "pushy" Pluto in Capricorn?

But hey, the "grown-ups" (Saturn/Moon/Jupiter) might be keeping a close eye on the "yang gang"...........Ah no.....they are busy doing their own thing (at 11/14/27 degrees).

Don't know what this might mean Flea.......but I sense it's an image for you to meditate on.

EJ

Hi Flea,

I have been looking at fusion as the pluto is conjunct uranus and opp chiron..

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You have very close Pluto-Chiron and Uranus-Chiron oppositions. The Pluto-Uranus conjunction is the coming together of two very transformational and dynamic energies for a long span of time, so it is generational in nature, but the house placements of these two planets and their aspects to other esp more personal planets make this conjunction more personal to you.

The Pluto-Chiron opposition could be indicative of deep hurt/wounds which possibly have to do with manipulation/power/control issues. Pluto being placed in the 4th house and often being connected to the past (-life) karma, this configuration could also reflect some such burden/hurt that you have been carrying along through your past. This could, in some way, be connected to your family/roots, but what is of consequence in this Plu-Chi opposition is that this will be a transformationally (Plu) healing (Chi) process, which you will have to work for more than usual (opposition); and, which might involve some hurt and pain (Chi/Plu traits). Another challenge that the opposition could pose during that healing process is usually that, due to the intensity (Plu) of the hardship/pain (Chi) involved in this transformational healing, which happens over years (as is always the case with Plu); the native will either be one, who becomes very receptive to the suffering and pain of others - healing himself by healing others, so such people might seek this native's shoulder to lean on; or he might misuse the tremendous energy of this life-long config and, at times, make unjust use of this power (the typical dark Plu themes of cruelty, manipulation, etc.).

The Uranus-Chiron oppostion could show that you might feel that you have to either struggle for your freedom, or to retain it, which is your wound to be healed; or that your wounds (Chi) have to do with your freedom (Ura) and use of it being misunderstood by others (Uranian theme of not being accepted by the norm). On a lower level, this aspect could also mean that the native tries to practise the Uranian themes (freedom/rebellion, etc) just to 'make a statement', meaning just to be different from the norm, and in doing so, trying to find his self-identity/-expression.

The house placements of these three planets will show in which areas of life these themes will most likely occur/manifest themselves.

AQ7

Thanks peeps,

Seems to be a time in my life when I am looking at this T-square... knowing it exists in my life and searching for a way to move forward.

EJ your commentary echoes Freedom's with this masculine/feminine polarity.....with the masculine in charge although in a wounded state maybe.
FYI....MercRQVenusbQJupiterRbQMercR....that is another subplot....fusing masculine and feminine. The moon has a grand water trine going on with chiron and neptune.

Tis interesting the notes about past lives....these energies of the yang gang seem so extreme from an astro point of view, though they have been more subtlely played out in my life.... nothing really concrete and criminal if you like. That is what stumps me... i'm an optomist sort of person.... and generally happy with my life. The last year I go through a uranus opposition while transiting saturn opposes uranus... activating this mother of a config....and nothing bad happens apart from a few health issues.

A7..transformational yes very much, from the core of my being to its expression. Feels like I signed up for a life changing experience this time round, along with a few others. Sometimes I think the stuff is all happening outside me, and I am aware of that and dealing with it so I dont need it mirrored in my life.

Anyway... I am searching for a bit of a lifepath scenario out of this. What is the gift of a chiron in pisces 11th house cusp, or does there need to be an endgame.

FleaXXX

Just echoing others thoughts, but Sun square Pluto is very driven towards self improvement and self development. For challenges to the Sun (father) I often reflect on what my dad was challenged with in life, as usually in adult life you face the same issues. Interesting what you were saying about you challenging your father's beliefs with Sun in Sagittarius opposed Pluto, are you ever challenged in what you believe in, views on life etc. A sixth house sun puts the focus on work, service and health etc, maybe your father's attitude to work, reflects your own. A focus on health, but maybe compulsively at times, at lot of 6th house energy. A very mutable chart, same here, we are forever learning in life .

Flea said:

...What is the gift of a chiron in pisces 11th house cusp....

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As you know Flea, Martin Lass defines this as "the revealing of the love of the Creator" (Pisces)..........and....with the joint rulers of the 11th house cusp in Gemini/1st + Scorpio/6th.......everyday communication of that revelation/understanding to large groups of others/society might be your "endgame".

...I am searching for a bit of a lifepath scenario out of this....

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Perhaps the interceptions give you that............Aries/self-assertion; Libra/ability to influence others; Uranus/planet of universal truth are all locked up on the 5/11 axis of power........."Outdated" views on own feminine values (Moon in Cancer/2nd) vs others masculine values (Mars in Capricorn/8th) prevent effective communication (3rd) of beliefs (9th).....Which makes it impossible to achieve your "endgame" until those views are fully "updated".

EJ

Hi again Flea,

Looking back at my two comments above, Pluto is actually classed as a yin energy and Uranus is not "locked up"........basic errors, or a subconscious hint about the roles of these two planets in your chart?
The Pluto Error

(Imo) Sun/Mars/Jupiter/Uranus are correctly classified as Yang/active energies; Moon/Venus/Saturn/Neptune are Yin/passive and Mercury can be either......But Pluto's strength lies in "letting go", which is an active rather than passive energy....and also the basis of the "unconditional love" seen in spiritually evolved Neptunes......So, might the 18-20 degree grouping be about exercising unconditional love by letting go of something?...(For example, the failure of others to "never really get you, or value your contribution").

Shining.... yes there is a theme of being challenge on my own views/beliefs in various areas of life.... I kinda get that this is pushing me to deeply evalute all I feel and know and explore. That I am challenging myself to really beleive in what I beleive from my own experiences (not books). Virgo/6th house...with pluto/uranus in virgo I sense I am restructuring my understanding how the mutuable earth energy works, both creatively 5th house, and the space to do that from, the womb of the fourth house. In a kinesiology session today there was quite a bit about realigning myself with the earth and water energies, as well as yin yang stuff. I tend to only have minor iritating health issues! Though themes of service in a wider sense are very strong. And healing in a more spiritual sense is a fansinating subject activity interest etc....obsessional?? will think on it.

EJ....The earth trine is an interesting one...I can get the mars energy being locked up, or not functioning properly, like the way I use earth energy is not in gear. Hopefully things are starting to unlock. I am getting stronger and stronger energy surges through my body so I can feel the vibrations of people, healing, spaces, places, around me. I have a need to find out what it all means. Being doing a lot of gender balance stuff, unlocking stories, and how energy moves between men and women. On a very subtle energy level in my family... the masculine takes the energy from the women, yet the women are blocked from giving to themselves. Unraveling how it works inside my body, and with others. But seems tied up with this config.

My dad is very good at getting stuff from books (lots of air)... but cant feel things, my mum comes from a very intuitive feeling place (lots of water). They both have little or no earth. So I am integrating very different ways of apprioaching life... all in the same energy body which creates the tension I imagine of the sun pluto dynamic. The intuitive feeling stuff has been dismissed by both in the past and still not fully integrated....you should see my mum trying to work from an objective thinking place....being all water under an aquarian sun.

Anyway.... there is a big healing thing happening as part of this jupchirnept thing going on and I sense that this thread is helping things to move.

Letting go.....a friend told me about an acupressure point that would be useful for me to rub.....specifically for letting go a couple weeks ago.

Oh communication I would gues is important with MC in Aq and Asc NN and Jup in Gemini.

Thankyou very much people.... all this information is very valuable and helping me much.... but taking time to absorb and process, it feels like it has only just go in the oven and I am waiting to see if the cake turns out right.

FleaXXX

Flea,

I've just re-read Jeff Green's "Evolutionary Journey of the Soul" comments on Pluto in 4th/Virgo and, in the light of this thread, they now make much more sense to me than previously..........The cycle of learning continues.

[Edit : I've now also read through the 40 pages on Gemini North Nodes in Jan Spiller's "Astrology for the Soul" and concluded you are very much in-tune with her comments, which include "...many incarnations as Philosopher Kings. Lifetime after lifetime, they left everyone around them to pursue Truth.....(and) they found it!.....In this lifetime, the challenge is to share their truth, rejoining society and staying connected with others."]

EJ

EJ, I think we all learn so much for sharing our stories. I have read that book, it is tucked away in my bookcase somewhere will find it again, I also have the gemini moon eclipse, and gemini 7 was in orbit when I was born. Recently wading my way through Jeff Green too. Since pluto conjuncted by natal sun six years ago now....I have hid away from society pretty much....those chiron wounds pack a punch. Only now do I feel like I am strong enough to enter the fray again.... Completely changed my way of looking at the world and my self.... and learnt a few new tricks in the process. I have often felt I dont gel with the wider society (uranus sq sun and uranus Q mercury).... bit crazy, just different perspective I suppose than most....the hermit id a tarot card I resonate with. Though dont really have any problems with talking and popularity.... just end up getting pulled into the power games of others....just my luck, well dont think I could avoid that with my chart as it is.

Thankyou... all I know tells me I have been around the block more than a few times.

FleaXXX