Eris

There hasn't been a thread about Eris for a while, so I thought I'd start one, having just finished two books on this dwarf planet, discovered in 2005:

Keiron Le Grice, Discovering Eris

Henry Seltzer, The 10th Planet

(both available at amazon-- in paper or Kindle.)

And this article by Philip Sedgwick: http://www.philipsedgwick.com/Centaur_TNO/DontSnubEris.pdf

And please-- let's keep this thread focused on Eris for people interested in how it might function in the horoscope. If you do not believe in using modern outers, that's fine-- but there are multiple other threads already that debate this issue at length.

Just briefly on the books: Le Grice is part of the transpersonal evolutionary astrology school promoted by Dane Rudhyar. If you like Rudhyar's books on psycho-spiritual astrology (also available via Internet booksellers,) you'd probably like this book. He concludes that astrological Eris primarily represents tension between opposites. His book is mostly theoretical.

Seltzer takes a more pragmatic approach, and discusses his findings based on readings of hundreds of nativities. Seltzer thinks that the primary meaning of astrological Eris is either as the Woman Warrior (Xena) archetype; or as those primal moments when you're absolutely against the wall, and are forced to take a stand for yourself, no matter what. Many of Seltzer's examples come from male authors, and how they portray this theme in their novels.

I. Astronomical Eris lies just beyond Pluto in the Kuiper Belt. It has a highly elliptical orbit, so it can spend a lot of time in one sign, and relatively little time in another, sort of like Pluto. Anyone born after 1927 will have Eris in Aries. Eris's orbit is also not on the ecliptic, and it was discovered in the constellation Cetus. Eris is roughly the same size as Pluto. Its orbital period is 540 years, so it goes beyond the so-called "generational planets" Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto. Sometimes this orbit cuts between the orbits of Pluto and Neptune.

As astronomers recognized the existence of large planet-like bodies beyond Pluto, the International Astronomical Union (IAU) in 2006 created a new class of heavenly bodies called "dwarf planets," including Eris, Pluto, Ceres, Haumea, and Makemake. Their size and gravitational qualities position them between the major planets and asteroids.

The Eris discovery team had to wait for the IAU to officially name the new dwarf planet. Initially the team nicknamed Eris "Xena" after the TV female warrior. (See the Sedgwick article for more on this.) Other names of interest to the team were "Lila" and "Persephone" (the Greek name for the queen of the Roman underworld god Pluto,) but the IAU chose a name out of classical mythology-- and Persephone was already taken by an asteroid.

These names all provide clues to Eris's meaning. (There's a debate on why this should work, which we can get into.)

II. Mythical Eris was the Greek goddess of strife and discord. She was the sister of Ares (Roman Mars, their war god.) For a complete run-down of her myths and mentions in ancient Greece, see: http://www.theoi.com/Daimon/Eris.html

Basically Eris was very bloodthirsty, delighting in battle; or simply known as the mischief-maker responsible for the Trojan War by causing a dispute amongst Hera, Aphrodite, and Athena. However, it was beneficial to have Eris on your side during a battle.

However, Hesiod (ca. 700 BCE) thought that more positively, Eris could symbolize the ambition and initiative that urged people to get ahead.

In one of the myths (by Aesop) of Hercules, Eris disguised herself as an apple-like object along the path. As Hercules tried to smash it with his club, the object grew proportionately until it totally blocked his way. The goddess Athena explained to him, that if you leave strife alone, it stays small, but if you aggravate it, it grows large. Probably a good moral for anyone.

(We can also get into why mythology should matter, if you wish.)

III Astrological Eris has already generated some strife (when is a planet or asteroid a dwarf planet,) and Le Grice and Seltzer have proposed completely different glyphs and interpretations for Eris.

There is much research to be done on Eris. What is she up to in your chart, and do you see her expressed in your life?

Plus, you gotta love an astronomer (Mike Brown, the lead discoverer of Eris,) who posted this:

http://www.mikebrownsplanets.com/2008/01/i-heart-astrologers.html

Loved the link, thank you! --

I copied a piece from it which I though was intriguing (below in red). (Hope it is with the word limit allowed.) I'm finding it difficult to imagine how that description follows anything that happened in 2005. There might be some connection with how Congress is acting but, that would be within the last few years - not in 2005. I'm just not seeing what could be described as a warrior woman in 2005. I'll have to give this some more thought.

---------
Here, for example, are some thoughts about Eris by Henry Seltzer, writing in The Mountain Astrologer:The astrology of Eris seems to be related to the no-holds-barred fight for continued existence that is fundamental in all natural processes, and to taking a stand for what one believes, even if violence is involved. As the sister of Mars, the God of War, Eris willingly sought the battle. There is a side of nature that is quite harsh, a struggle for survival; this struggle is an essential part of the human condition as well, for we are still half animal. Nature can be viewed in a rosy light, as it was in the hippie era of the Sixties, Bambi innocently drinking from a little stream. But underlying this beauty is the possibility of sudden death at any moment, since all of nature's children need to eat. Eris is related to this principle of violence as a natural component of existence and to the concept of the female warrior that embodies it, especially the feminist struggle for rights in a patriarchal society.

Hi Marinka-- Le Grice did a lot with Eris in mundane events. I found some of them rather ordinary (since we inhabit a violent world,) and mostly western-related (not much on Latin America, for example.) But he argued that mundane events occur around the discovery time-- notably in the years just before the new heavenly body is discovered. I. e., the timing is only approximate.

He specifically linked Eris to global terrorism and recognition of global climate change. I might debate him on the chronology of these phenomena, but they did emerge more generally into international news headlines ca. 2005. (Actually the photographs on which the Eris discovery was based were taken in 2003, but it took the astronomers a while to get the data back, organized, and to interpret it. http://www.mikebrownsplanets.com/

One thing I might add to these two is just an explosion of recent interest in women's professional sports. Yes, these have been going on for decades, but nothing like the recent excitement over women's soccer at the Olympics and FIFA world cup matches, which recently attracted over 50,000 fans at the stadium alone. I think a female athlete is in keeping with the "woman warrior" archetype.

We might still be within the time-frame of Eris's discovery. For example, Uranus has been linked to revolutions, but it was discovered in 1781, bracketed by the American Revolution (1776) and French Revolution (1789.)

Eris is a "feminine" force in astrology, alike our Moon, Venus, Ceres and Sedna. Sometimes the planets Mercury and Uranus have androgynous meanings. Astrology associates the planets Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune, plus the dwarf planet Pluto and our Sun as "masculine". But what I know Eris can influence men's charts and horoscopes, much like the Moon does. The Moon is the 2nd most powerful part of astrology after our Sun. And Eris carries masculine powers like Mercury's feminine ones. Interestingly, in the first decade of the 21st century as the world enters the Aquarian age, Eris' discovery occurred in a time of growing feminism and gender equality, esp. the western world (Europe and North America).

In rulerships, Eris may affect the signs Taurus, Gemini and Aquarius the most. Eris is also the astrological force of business, wealth and prosperity. I find Taurus and Gemini are about competing business industry and accumulation of personal or corporation wealth. For Aquarius, combined with Uranus and Saturn, Eris can trigger a reverse of monetary wealth, but Eris plays a role in Aquarius' air sign duality shared with Gemini...and Libra. There are some astrologers who feel Eris controls Libra and Aries. Currently, Eris is in Aries until it enters Taurus in the next decade (2030?) It's no wonder Aquarians display a more androgynous, egalitarian approach to social and gender equality, represented by a powerful feminine co-ruler.

Hi Marinka--

I suspect the current "Black Lives Matter" movement in the US is linked to Eris. http://blacklivesmatter.com/
Katrina is an interesting case, as African Americans were disproportionately affected by it, sometimes in patently racist ways. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-gretna_wittsep04-story.html#page=1

If Eris does have a "back to the wall" quality to it, then these events should qualify.

I'm not so convinced Eris is linked to environmental disasters, although Le Grice thinks they are. These have been going on since the dawn of humanity. Ceres (agriculture, drought,) Sedna (marine animals,) Haumea (childbirth, earth,) or Makemake (creator, fertility,) may be better candidates.

Although Ceres was discovered in 1801, the other dwarf planets were discovered within a year of Eris's discovery, so it may take a while to sort out what's what.

Thankfully, Jungian analysts are getting away from Jung's early 20th century, highly conservative ideas of what was distinctively masculine or feminine. I think we're beyond defining today's women solely in terms of their sexual appear (Venus) or maternity (moon,)and then assuming that all of the other characteristics in a nativity are masculine. Eris, for one, offers the promise of seeing leadership, assertiveness, and survival skills as womanly attributes.

Assigning rulerships to me seems premature. They mean a lot more than planet-sign affinity, but have to work in a horoscope as house cusp lords.

wrong, you still don't know the meaning.
where's the list?

Bjorkstrand said:

wrong, you still don't know the meaning.
where's the list?

Click to expand...

What do you think is the meaning?

What list?

Interesting, Matrika-- let us know what you find.

waybread said:

There is much research to be done on Eris. What is she up to in your chart, and do you see her expressed in your life?

Click to expand...

Hi Waybread,

thanks for starting this thread. I'm wondering about Eris, too. I'm still looking for the real rulers of Libra and Virgo. I started playing around with Eris and Libra and also with Ceres and Virgo in a couple of charts. And so far it works nicely. Can't say anything definite though. My wife has Moon conjunct Eris (less than 1 degree) and I'm going to look a little more closer into that one soon.

And since you mention Eris as the goddess of strife and discord and the connection to Ares/Mars, that makes this Libra connection interesting, because then they would be opposites, similar to Mercury and Jupiter or Gemini and Sagittarius which are also somehow complementary. And since you mentioned that Eris is way beyond the generational planets, it would have to work in very subtle ways. So somehow all I see is a Libra connection at the moment.

Just some food for thought. I'd like to hear your take on this.

Hi Muchacho. Would you describe your wife as a "woman warrior"?

Le Grice makes a case for Eris ruling Libra, but:

1. Since he doesn't demonstrate its utility with house cusps, I think it's an open question. I don't know what "rulership" of a sign would actually mean to someone who doesn't do horary or use house cusp rulers in natal chart interpretation.

2. Le Grice's rationale is based on all kinds of assumptions, stemming from psycho-spiritual, transpersonal evolutionary astrology. I don't accept most of the premises.

3. Eris seems like a really bad match with Libra so far as affinities go. Libra is a comparatively refined air sign. Eris (the sister of Mars) seems more fiery to me. Libra is into balance, harmony, and diplomacy.

4. Le Grice favours Libra in part because he thinks the 7th house is the same as the 7th sign. The 7th house can have some oppositional qualities to it: it includes "open" enemies and litigation. But the 7th house isn't the same as the 7th sign. A house shows a planet's domain or area of activity. A sign shows how or in what manner a planet operates.

This isn't to say an Eris-Libra connection can't triumph in the end, but I haven't seen the leg work needed to draw such a conclusion. It seems more speculative than anything else.

waybread said:

Hi Muchacho. Would you describe your wife as a "woman warrior"?

Click to expand...

No, not really. At least not in the brute force Mars/Aries sense. There's no thriving on competition or conflict. Although there is a silent and unwavering determination that doesn't shy away from drastic measures if the need should arise. But it won't happen in an impulsive way, it will happen in a well thought out and graceful but nevertheless no-nonsense manner.

So, with Moon in Aries and conjunct Eris, if Eris should really work like the goddess Eris in mythology, then it would actually amplify the Aries qualities. But that's not the case here, quite the opposite, actually.

waybread said:

Eris seems like a really bad match with Libra so far as affinities go. Libra is a comparatively refined air sign. Eris (the sister of Mars) seems more fiery to me. Libra is into balance, harmony, and diplomacy.

Click to expand...

Discord and conflict can also happen in a very refined way. Actually, there's one part from the link you've posted that sounds to me like the typical Libra way of dealing with competition:

When she turned up anyway, she was refused admittance and, in a rage, threw a golden apple amongst the goddesses inscribed "To the fairest." Three goddesses laid claim it, and in their rivalry brought about the events which led to the Trojan War.

Click to expand...

But you are right, if Eris should thrive on rivalry and discord, that's the opposite of the Libra goal.

waybread said:

This isn't to say an Eris-Libra connection can't triumph in the end, but I haven't seen the leg work needed to draw such a conclusion. It seems more speculative than anything else.

Click to expand...

Correct. Your line of argumentation seems to mostly rely on the name Eris and its meaning in mythology. But didn't that planet get its name assigned more or less arbitrarily? It seemed to me that way, that's why I totally ignored the mythological aspect so far. Maybe you have some more info on why Eris has been named Eris and the reasoning behind it and if that is holding any water. Would be interesting to hear more about that. What if it's a misnomer?

I rather doubt any of the newly discovered objects around there are/will be benefic.

I am a feminist, but I keep linking Eris to the mother of Antichrist concept.

Muchacho-- your wife sounds like a gem. Then what about her experience of her mother? (Just fishing here.....)

Waybread, in my natal chart, Eris conjunct Venus in Aries midheaven, also conjunct Ceres. These are the 3 feminine forces in astrology along with the Moon (most "feminine") conjunct Sun in Aquarius (Feb. 15, 1980) with Cancer ascendant (itself a feminine sign). What can you make of this? and I'm male, but women played a prominent role in childhood and adult life.

Hmmm-- traditionally, the 4th is the house of the father and associated patrimony, making the 10th the house of the mother (7th from the 4th.) Does any of this describe Mom?

Yes, it might describe my mother...or 3 stepmothers: my Dad married 3x in the last 25 years, currently on his 5th wife. I never had a strong relationship with my stepmoms, but I knew my Mom was close to me, esp. since my parents' divorce when I was 7 years old (I'm 35 now). The Eris-Ceres-Venus stellium opposite Pluto in Libra-IC, the 4th house has a negative planetary force on my relationship with father, so it describes the divorce and my distance from him. I was able to visit him every weekend as a child, so he's always part of my life.

ALRESCHA said:

I rather doubt any of the newly discovered objects around there are/will be benefic.

I am a feminist, but I keep linking Eris to the mother of Antichrist concept.

Click to expand...

Based on what? Because the planet was named after the mythological Eris?

waybread said:

Muchacho-- your wife sounds like a gem. Then what about her experience of her mother? (Just fishing here.....)

Click to expand...

I don't know. What would you expect according to your theory?