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  #1  
Unread 03-16-2019, 09:36 PM
aniyas aniyas is offline
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All work, no pay?

I'm a workaholic! I love love learning new skills and being given tasks and being busy. I also have a negative habit of offering to do tasks for people when I'm already flooded with work, which frequently costs me. As a result, I've been working a crazy amount from my early university years - both jobs and internships, and extracurricular work. It's stressful, but I can't live without it.

The catch is that I keep ending up in very specific situations where I'm working for free or making almost no money. I do think all the effort I've put in will come back to me in form or another, but since I'm about to graduate soon, I want to be more practical about this.

But it's almost like I'm repelled by the prospect of money - if someone offers to pay me for casual / one-time work, I become deeply uncomfortable and I instinctively haggle my way out of it before I can stop myself. And it's also as if I repel money altogether - the most attractive opportunities I feel drawn towards are frequently non-paying or low-paying tasks, and I've had to turn down a number of well-paying opportunities due to one unavoidable circumstance or the other.

Looking back, I've been taken advantage of over and over, but I can't bring myself to care. I do, however, want to have a reasonably stable household one day...and give my future family a good life. Nobody else in my immediate family behaves this way.

Any insights from the chart?
https://imgur.com/a/v58wRSy

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  #2  
Unread 03-17-2019, 03:57 AM
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Osamenor Osamenor is offline
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Re: All work, no pay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniyas View Post
I'm a workaholic! I love love learning new skills and being given tasks and being busy. I also have a negative habit of offering to do tasks for people when I'm already flooded with work, which frequently costs me. As a result, I've been working a crazy amount from my early university years - both jobs and internships, and extracurricular work. It's stressful, but I can't live without it.
That perfectly fits your Sun/Mercury conjunction in the sixth house. Sixth house is the house of service and vocation. It's where we develop skills, develop ourselves through developing skill, and serve society.

Sun in the sixth house often does need satisfactory work. Without it, you wouldn't be happy. Mercury, though, tends to be an even stronger indicator of our approach to tasks, and your Mercury is tightly trine Saturn. Saturn is where we feel responsible. If Saturn is strong in your chart--and yours is, being angular and a singleton (your only planet on the left side of the chart) and in aspect with most of your other planets--there's a good chance that you will be overly responsible. Saturn in this case is driving you to take responsibility for too much. Since Mercury is also your chart ruler, anything aspecting it is apt to be especially strong in your life.

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Originally Posted by aniyas View Post
The catch is that I keep ending up in very specific situations where I'm working for free or making almost no money....

But it's almost like I'm repelled by the prospect of money - if someone offers to pay me for casual / one-time work, I become deeply uncomfortable and I instinctively haggle my way out of it before I can stop myself. And it's also as if I repel money altogether - the most attractive opportunities I feel drawn towards are frequently non-paying or low-paying tasks, and I've had to turn down a number of well-paying opportunities due to one unavoidable circumstance or the other.
If you've had a number of well paying opportunities, you obviously are interested in *something* that pays well. Otherwise, you wouldn't have had those opportunities, or you wouldn't have turned them down just for unavoidable reasons. You might have turned them down because you weren't interested, but not because something else got in your way. Unless, that is, the unavoidable reasons were not really completely unavoidable?

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Originally Posted by aniyas View Post
Nobody else in my immediate family behaves this way.
Interesting that you mention your immediate family, if only to deny. Your chart shows that this has plenty to do with your family.

If the rest of your family isn't so adverse to money, then your aversion is something you're acting out for your family. Just like an alcoholic acts out their family dysfunction, even if they're not aware of it, and even if the rest of their family doesn't drink. This one person is manifesting trauma or dysfunction that's in the whole group.

For personal financial issues, we look to the second house and its ruler. Right there is a possible indicator of family: Cancer second house, Moon its ruler. But it's Moon's placement that really tells me this is about your family: right on the IC. That says family again.

Your Moon's placement is not a poor one at all. We can't explain your lack of income by a poorly placed second house ruler. In fact, it's quite a strong placement: right on an angle, and Leo is not a bad sign for the moon. So, what we're looking at here is a deep emotional/spiritual blockage that has something to do with your roots, your family, your people.

Since this is in Leo, which is the sign of royalty, the picture I get is that you come from a family that's in some way royal-like: probably not literally royal (hardly anyone is), but socially prominent, well to do, and/or influential in the community. Is that correct?

If your family does have wealth or power, how was it acquired? How have they used it? The combination of your chart and your story makes me think there's some family history of money or property being acquired in an unethical way, or wielded in an unethical way (but a socially acceptable unethical way--this is Leo we're talking about). Possible examples: landlords who oppress the tenants, but do it in a thoroughly legal way, or slave owners in a time and place where owning slaves is acceptable, or someone who acquires wealth by running sweatshops, or profiting from a war or prison industry, or being the banker who finances any of the above, and gets a rich return from it.

If the above is correct, then you're reacting to that history. There's plenty in your chart to suggest you would take on a debt, as it were, that was incurred by your family. But in case I'm off base, I don't want to go any further without input from you.
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  #3  
Unread 03-17-2019, 07:23 AM
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Re: All work, no pay?

What I see first is Venus-Mars angular so heightened passion connection with physicality that can denote such things as high sex drive and murder.

Also angular Moon Square angular sun (because it's on the west point an offen overlooked angle). Ego with emotion that us super highted, highly sexed, need for incoming stimulation, always busy on a quest, warmth and radiance come off this person.

Your signs say your action oriented looking for a dangerous thrill, always on the move. Alot of energy pumping through your body. Not afraid of a fight, in fact may egg on a fight. May have many sexual partners. Emotionally attached to people, dramatic, and caring.
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  #4  
Unread 03-17-2019, 09:44 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: All work, no pay?

"And it's also as if I repel money altogether"
The second house ruler makes no aspects, the idea of money is detached from you.
It will be a good idea for you to work for a salary, and not work for yourself.
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  #5  
Unread 03-17-2019, 10:56 AM
aniyas aniyas is offline
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Re: All work, no pay?

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
That perfectly fits your Sun/Mercury conjunction in the sixth house. Sixth house is the house of service and vocation. It's where we develop skills, develop ourselves through developing skill, and serve society.
Thanks for the detail Osamenor, learnt quite a bit here!

Quote:
If you've had a number of well paying opportunities, you obviously are interested in *something* that pays well. Otherwise, you wouldn't have had those opportunities, or you wouldn't have turned them down just for unavoidable reasons. You might have turned them down because you weren't interested, but not because something else got in your way. Unless, that is, the unavoidable reasons were not really completely unavoidable?
Maybe it works a bit differently in my country, but if you attend a reputed university here recruiters start calling you themselves, based on the resumé you upload to the uni's online portal - the four well-paying opportunities I received had to be turned down due to location, timing, personal issues.

Quote:
Interesting that you mention your immediate family, if only to deny. Your chart shows that this has plenty to do with your family.
...
Since this is in Leo, which is the sign of royalty, the picture I get is that you come from a family that's in some way royal-like: probably not literally royal (hardly anyone is), but socially prominent, well to do, and/or influential in the community. Is that correct?
This is an awesome insight, actually, and the more I think about it, the more weight it holds. My family has a fairly prominent standing because of wealth (especially the fact that my dad has a rags-to-riches story one might read about in a novel - succeeding in the face of extreme poverty) and family dynamics - not unethical, quite the opposite actually, I find it really hard to try to live up to my parents' history / reputation for integrity and selflessness. My two younger brothers seem to be less affected by this and live much more balanced college lives (as far as I can see), and I seem to have soaked up way more of my parents' characteristics in general.

So you've given me something to think about. Could you perhaps help walk me from this point to the concern I've raised in the post? Even though both my parents are service-oriented (esp mom), my father is financially very intelligent (he's a financial advisor in fact), and my mom is great at budgeting considering our money also goes to extended family, so I feel really far-removed from both in that respect.

I guess it might also be important to note that I'm sensitive to the point of excess (learning to reign it in now), moreso than my family, so maybe I'm feeling things out of proportion. Maybe I feel guilty about having everything handed to me without me working for it? Maybe I feel guilty about the knowledge that so many people work so much harder than me everyday only to receive so little. I don't know, I'll have to think about it some more. Thanks a great deal for your input, I think this answers my question really.
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  #6  
Unread 03-17-2019, 11:02 AM
aniyas aniyas is offline
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Re: All work, no pay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoam1 View Post
What I see first is Venus-Mars angular so heightened passion connection with physicality that can denote such things as high sex drive and murder.

Also angular Moon Square angular sun (because it's on the west point an offen overlooked angle). Ego with emotion that us super highted, highly sexed, need for incoming stimulation, always busy on a quest, warmth and radiance come off this person.

Your signs say your action oriented looking for a dangerous thrill, always on the move. Alot of energy pumping through your body. Not afraid of a fight, in fact may egg on a fight. May have many sexual partners. Emotionally attached to people, dramatic, and caring.
Thanks Whoam1. Culturally / religiously I have to curb my drives but I think you're quite right about many of these things. I do have a tremendous amount of energy inside me but not so great at expressing it - could be the Saturn squares perhaps. Not murder I hope!!
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  #7  
Unread 03-17-2019, 11:04 AM
aniyas aniyas is offline
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Re: All work, no pay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
"And it's also as if I repel money altogether"
The second house ruler makes no aspects, the idea of money is detached from you.
It will be a good idea for you to work for a salary, and not work for yourself.
Hi Elena! I'm a little confused - is the moon not making any aspects? I see some squares and trines.

I think you're right about the salary thing though - noted. And thank you!
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  #8  
Unread 03-17-2019, 11:42 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: All work, no pay?

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Originally Posted by aniyas View Post
Hi Elena! I'm a little confused - is the moon not making any aspects? I see some squares and trines.

I think you're right about the salary thing though - noted. And thank you!
What aspects are these?
The moon separates from a sextile with sun, so this is behind you, not future.
There are no developing aspects.
You are basically detached from money, neutral, you will never work to accumulate it. This is not necessarily a negative, it just means your life goal is elsewhere.
I also noticed Chiron squaring the 2nd house cusp. Money is not your thing.
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  #9  
Unread 03-17-2019, 07:59 PM
aniyas aniyas is offline
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Re: All work, no pay?

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Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
What aspects are these?
The moon separates from a sextile with sun, so this is behind you, not future.
There are no developing aspects.
You are basically detached from money, neutral, you will never work to accumulate it. This is not necessarily a negative, it just means your life goal is elsewhere.
I also noticed Chiron squaring the 2nd house cusp. Money is not your thing.
Oh, this might change how I view aspects in general. Is this a widely-accepted practice? Considering separating aspects to be 'behind' you, so to speak. I've read transits work that way (Robert Hand), but wasn't aware it applied to natal aspects too.

And thanks very much - that's a relieving interpretation.
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  #10  
Unread 03-17-2019, 09:27 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: All work, no pay?

Don't know how widely this is used, but in your natal chart it shows the development of energy patterns.
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  #11  
Unread 03-17-2019, 10:30 PM
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Re: All work, no pay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
What aspects are these?
The moon separates from a sextile with sun, so this is behind you, not future.
There are no developing aspects.
You are basically detached from money, neutral, you will never work to accumulate it. This is not necessarily a negative, it just means your life goal is elsewhere.
I also noticed Chiron squaring the 2nd house cusp. Money is not your thing.
The moon is square to the sun, not sextile. Leo squares Scorpio. Separating, yes, but still a very tight square. Tight aspects definitely count.

Separating aspects are still felt. It's kind of like a major holiday that everyone looks forward to for weeks (I like to use Christmas as the example, but I don't know if that's such a holiday where you are). The applying aspect is like the days leading up to it, when decorations are going up and special foods are being prepared and people are getting their houses ready and there's lots of excitement in the air. The closer the day gets, the tighter the aspect. The exact aspect is like when the big day arrives. After that, it starts to separate, which is like the time when the holiday has begun and the initial celebration has happened.

A separating aspect that's still within a degree of exact--which your Moon/Sun square is--is comparable to lunchtime on Christmas Day, when the presents have all been opened but it's still Christmas and you're still celebrating. (If Christmas isn't your holiday, substitute whatever holiday fills that niche in your religion/culture.) In other words, it's still very present. A wider orb in a separating aspect would diminish its influence more--kind of like the day after Christmas, when the excitement has faded but the energy of the holiday is still around.

Your Moon also has several of those looser separating aspects: square to Mercury and trines to Venus, Mars, and even closer, Jupiter. It's not an unaspected Moon at all. Those aspects may have loose orbs, but they're still close enough that they would be triggered by transits to that part of your chart--so I would count it. Your Moon also has a wide, out of sign, but applying, square to Pluto.

Even more pertinent, though, your moon is in a very tight yod with Neptune. I think that's playing a part in your money issue: yods show places of discomfort, energies that can't seem to reconcile but can't be gotten rid of either. A yod can be a place where you function well if both planets involved are functioning well--that is, in part, where I got the sense that you feel your family has incurred a debt of some kind, which you're taking on. Eighth house is debt, owing, being owed, unresolved debts--and can also say something about your ancestors, particularly around the grandparents' generation. Scorpio also carries some of that meaning, so we involve your Sun/Mercury here.

If Chiron square the second house cusp does mean anything about you and money, I wouldn't take that to mean money is meaningless for you. Rather, it's a sticking point for you. It's connected to some deep collective wound. Cancer, again, suggests that this involves your family.

Last edited by Osamenor; 03-17-2019 at 10:38 PM.
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Unread 03-17-2019, 11:08 PM
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Re: All work, no pay?

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Originally Posted by aniyas View Post
This is an awesome insight, actually, and the more I think about it, the more weight it holds. My family has a fairly prominent standing because of wealth (especially the fact that my dad has a rags-to-riches story one might read about in a novel - succeeding in the face of extreme poverty) and family dynamics - not unethical, quite the opposite actually,
Okay. Not unethical, but you're reacting as if it were. And your chart does suggest skeletons in the family closet, which strongly affect you. They're not necessarily the specific kind of skeleton I used as an example--maybe your family hasn't made or used money in a clearly unethical way--but there is something. Some secret being kept, or maybe some open secret. And there's a lot to suggest it's something that is, in some way, damaging.

Fourth house is rather open secrets--they might not be talked about, but they're known. Eighth house is secrets you would have to dig for to find. In both cases, we're looking at the proverbial skeleton in the closet. That this ties to your second house, and you have such a psychological block against money, is pointing to there being something going on here regarding money.

Perhaps it's simply the family dynamic involving money. When there is serious money in a family, it becomes about power: who has it, who controls it, who isn't allowed to control it, who feels they can make decisions because they have it or don't have it, who can give it, who has to ask for it. A lot of control issues can surface. It might, subtly, affect your sense of your rights: right to agency over your life, right to have, right to ask for, right to exist.

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I find it really hard to try to live up to my parents' history / reputation for integrity and selflessness.
Your parents are not selfless. That Leo fourth house speaks to that.

Generous, perhaps, but it's Leo-style generosity. Leo (pure archetypal Leo) is generous out of abundance. Leo can only give when he already has plenty for himself. Leo is both a highly selfish sign (though not necessarily selfish in a bad way) and a highly generous sign.

The first thing Leo needs is self, and enough for herself: enough materially, enough love, enough emotionally. A Leo-archetype who has acquired that enough is inclined to share it--but it's not selfless sharing. It's sharing out of the abundance of self. Your Leo fourth house Moon tells us that's how your family shares. And, since this is your Moon, how you would be most comfortable sharing. The Leo archetype is in your deepest sense of security.
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My two younger brothers seem to be less affected by this and live much more balanced college lives (as far as I can see), and I seem to have soaked up way more of my parents' characteristics in general.
Are you the oldest, then? And the only daughter in your family?

That in of itself is enough to explain that difference between you and your brothers. Firstborns are the most likely people to feel overly responsible (and also, frequently, have significant Saturn placements in that picture), perhaps especially firstborn daughters. And your differing feelings about money could have a lot to do with gender. Boys/men learn that they're entitled to money, and rarely feel uncomfortable about it. Girls/women often learn the opposite, and often do feel, deep down, that they shouldn't be paid so much. If anything, that particular gender dynamic tends to be more extreme in wealthier families than poorer ones.
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  #13  
Unread 03-18-2019, 12:55 AM
Julietsbrainlessboyfriend Julietsbrainlessboyfriend is offline
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Re: All work, no pay?

Saturn in the tenth perhaps? Sun is on a very wide angle conjuction on Pluto but collective planets take over sometimes.


I really personally do like to see asteroids in a chart. I could probably scroll down an ephemeris and find them in not too long but it might also be good to post them!


This might be coming from fifth house Chiron and may be avoidable.



I would question what you mean by 'one unavoidable circumstance after another'?
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  #14  
Unread 03-18-2019, 07:17 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: All work, no pay?

"The moon is square to the sun, not sextile." Yes, apologies for this oversight.
However, I still see the moon as inactive in this chart, in spite of the wide aspects.
I think the separation from the close square with sun will not bring growth and will not be stimulating. I still see a detachment from the basic idea of "money". The separating square apparently refers to what the family had accumulated.
Very much appreciated the insightful analysis, Osamenor, and the comparison with Christmas that makes the mechanism very clear.
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Unread 03-18-2019, 08:21 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: All work, no pay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
"The moon is square to the sun, not sextile." Yes, apologies for this oversight.
However, I still see the moon as inactive in this chart, in spite of the wide aspects.
I think the separation from the close square with sun will not bring growth and will not be stimulating. I still see a detachment from the basic idea of "money". The separating square apparently refers to what the family had accumulated.
Very much appreciated the insightful analysis, Osamenor, and the comparison with Christmas that makes the mechanism very clear.
Just to clarify, when I say "detached" I don't mean you won't have money. What it means is that money in itself is not a motivation. Your ambitions in life will come from other areas, but not monetary gain.
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Unread 03-18-2019, 01:08 PM
Gemini888 Gemini888 is offline
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Re: All work, no pay?

I haven't read the above post.



Just a guess, but could it be that your source of money is better off provided by a family member?


Your 2H cusp is in Cancer, and its ruler is in 4H and conjuncts the IC. Moon also in Leo, the sign of pride. I have a feeling you are not good at managing money because you are too emotional to take control of your money, and you could do better if there's a family member or someone very close to you who is willing to either provide money for you or help you manage your money.
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