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  #26  
Unread 02-01-2016, 11:45 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Natal Chart Reading

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Prior to getting to know about Houses, I intensely studied Sign/Rulership relationships. I have good Chart -reading abilities without Houses, but now it appears Houses will be a useful addition. I firmly attach numbers to Signs, 1 through 12, beginning with Aries. The Houses are also numbered, and the characteristics of the numbered houses at APPEAR to match up with the numbered Sign qualities. I view a Sign as a programmed response to Rulership influence. In which case, why wouldn't a Sign-ruler come through more strongly when it's in the House with the same number as the sign it rules? For example, wouldn't it be significant if Saturn were transiting the 10th House? If not "ruling" the 10th, maybe another term to describe Saturn's strengthened condition when in the 10th, as opposed to perhaps a weakened condition when in the 4th House? Or, maybe you don't see it this way at all?
I see it that way as well. I assign the same significance and connections to the houses as the signs, except with nuances that come from it being a 'house' as opposed to it being a zodiac sign. the house describes 'where' things happen in the native's life. So the 7th house would be one's sphere of relationships much like Libra. Except that it seems to work more like a place or an environment or a landscape, if that makes sense. There is a difference between Saturn transiting your 7th house Jupiter and Saturn transiting your Jupiter in Libra.

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  #27  
Unread 02-02-2016, 12:13 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Natal Chart Reading

All right, that makes sense to me. Would Venus in Libra in the 7th House be ideal in weakening the effect of Saturn's transit on one's personal relationships? And conversely, what would be a worst-case scenario in that regard? An empty 7th House in the Natal Chart, with no accompanying planets during the Saturn transit through that House, for example. Thanks, I appreciate the help!
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  #28  
Unread 02-02-2016, 01:21 AM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Natal Chart Reading

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
All right, that makes sense to me. Would Venus in Libra in the 7th House be ideal in weakening the effect of Saturn's transit on one's personal relationships? And conversely, what would be a worst-case scenario in that regard? An empty 7th House in the Natal Chart, with no accompanying planets during the Saturn transit through that House, for example. Thanks, I appreciate the help!
It wouldn't necessarily weaken the effect of Saturn's influence if there was a Venus in that 7th house transit. Sometimes it is even more 'traumatic' when Saturn hits a point in which everything was smooth and easy prior to his knocking on the door. Let's say someone had Venus in Libra in the 7th with a sextile to Jupiter in Sag in the 9th. And the native is used to having nice, joyful relationships that are beneficial and flow nicely.

Then transiting Saturn, which rules her 10th house, comes knocking on the 7th house door. And it is sitting on Venus in Libra. Saturn is much stronger than Venus. It is exalted in Libra and would be at full strength. iT would limit, delay and deny various Venusian situations. Relationships would turn cold, or be restricted in some way.

I have Venus in Sag in the 7th house. When I had Saturn sitting right on my Venus 28 yrs ago, I was happily married. But we had some stress over the frustration of infertility issues. We were trying various techniques, and schedules and I was being prodded and keeping temperature charts and it KILLED our 'romantic' notions about sex. It was all about ovulation.
So the Saturn transit in my 7th put restrictions, and stress on our relationship.

[ Our oldest child has his Saturn in early Cap so it worked.]

Last edited by katydid; 02-02-2016 at 01:24 AM.
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  #29  
Unread 02-02-2016, 01:54 AM
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Re: Natal Chart Reading

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Prior to getting to know about Houses, I intensely studied Sign/Rulership relationships. I have good Chart -reading abilities without Houses, but now it appears Houses will be a useful addition. I firmly attach numbers to Signs, 1 through 12, beginning with Aries. The Houses are also numbered, and the characteristics of the numbered houses at APPEAR to match up with the numbered Sign qualities. I view a Sign as a programmed response to Rulership influence. In which case, why wouldn't a Sign-ruler come through more strongly when it's in the House with the same number as the sign it rules? For example, wouldn't it be significant if Saturn were transiting the 10th House? If not "ruling" the 10th, maybe another term to describe Saturn's strengthened condition when in the 10th, as opposed to perhaps a weakened condition when in the 4th House? Or, maybe you don't see it this way at all?

David, I wouldn't attach house numbers to signs. AriesSun100's chart is a prime example of why not. We see the first sign in the 7th house. They have very different meanings.

A sign indicates how or in what manner a planet operates.

A house indicates where or in what domain of life a planet operates.

The 7th sign (Libra) is a cardinal air sign, which has no bearing on the meanings of the 7th house (marriage and other permanent relationships, open enemies, litigation, partnerships, other one-on-one relationships.)

For another thing, houses are diurnal, signs function more like months of the year.

Sometimes you get signs and houses with comparable meanings, but sometimes not. For example, Aries is a cardinal fire sign ruled by Mars. Unless someone has Aries in the first house, Aries may be a horrible representation of someone with Pisces or Taurus rising. Sagittarius, Jupiter, and the 9th house seem like a decent match.

Are you familiar with Deborah Houlding, Houses: Temples of the Sky? She notes that the modern effort to conflate signs and houses has actually changed meanings of planetary significations. For example, the second house rules your finances. Traditionally, however, Mercury, not Venus is the ruler of money and trade.

All things being equal, Saturn is strengthened in the 10th house because it is angular, not because the 10th house means the same thing as Capricorn. The 4th house is also angular, just not as beneficial as the first or 10th house.

The conflation of signs and houses has been attributed to the modern astrologer C. E. O. Carter.
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  #30  
Unread 02-02-2016, 02:29 AM
AriesSun100 AriesSun100 is offline
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Re: Natal Chart Reading

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AriesSun100, you do have what I would call a "difficult chart." You incarnated with some real life challenges, but also with the energy and courage to face and even defy them.

1. Pluto opposite sun often shows up in the charts of people with a dysfunctional relationship with their father. With Pluto opposite your Aries stellium, you may have a real fear of being controlled by people whom you deem to be bullying, domineering, and aggressive. This can lead to the philosophy that "the best defense is a good offense," when actually the others oftentimes weren't trying to be your enemy at all.

2. You've got a real paradox with those independent active Aries planets in the 7th house. This is the traditional house of committed partnerships such as marriage, but it is also the house of "open enemies"-- the ones you identify vs. the secretive back-stabbing sorts. Aries needs to be independent, yet the 7th house asks for a long-term commitment to someone else.

3. Then your powerful moon (emotional nature) in Cancer truly longs to merge with other people, be they close friends, a lover, or even co-workers. So there's a head-heart conflict between your Aries sun and Cancer moon. It's as though you fend people off with a stick at the same time that you long for emotional closeness. This dissonance between your sense of identity and your emotional needs may make you feel emotionally moody, such that a vicious circle sets in.

4. With that first house Jupiter retrograde and Saturn, you may come across to other people as thinking that you know more than they do and being critical of them-- even when you don't mean to. I suspect that mostly you don't expect other people to like you, so that is the "face" that people see.

I think the best way around this is to befriend people who also need their space. With so much Aries in your chart, a good athletic activity that requires a partner, such as fencing, tennis or another racquet sport might be very beneficial.

Try to experience your Cancerian love for people. Yes, they may hurt your feelings, and leave you feeling exposed and vulnerable. At times you may give and not receive. But AriesSun100, you have strength and courage to burn! With a chart like yours, you have had to be very, very strong-- on a survival level. You can handle a bit more hurt in the quest for friends and loved ones. Your north node of personal growth lies in the 11th house of friends. So this is a good area to develop.

One really harmonious area of your chart is that nice Venus-Mars-sun trine to Neptune. You probably have a rich imagination. So long as it doesn't become escapism to compensate for the difficulties you experience, I hope you can develop it-- even if just as a hobby. Try a class in art or film-making, and see what happens! Or keep a journal for your private poetry collection. Just something so that your creative artistic side has an outlet.

In terms of career, do you know if your birth time is accurate? I ask because your MC is right on the cusp, and it does matter which sign it's in.

Generally graduate school is for people who know what they want to do, and who acquired the credentials as undergrads for admission into a specific program. With your strong 7th house emphasis, however, you might think about law school, as that 7th house of "open enemies" includes litigation. That 10th house moon might like to "parent" people in some way-- note that lawyers are sometimes called "counselor."

I think you would also be good as a physical education teacher.

Incidentally, your chart doesn't show your Part of Fortune, which you can input on the Astrodienst free charts pages. This indicates an area of your life that is likely to go well for you, so it is worth making its acquaintance.
1. You are very right regarding my fear of being controlled by aggressive people. The fear started, I believe, in my childhood. My relationship with my mom was difficult; she was a very controlling person who would always want her way. She was very critical, and I felt a lack of affection and warmth from her. I would always envy my friends' mothers who were understanding, loving, and caring. As years passed, she has gotten better, and our relationship has gotten better. But my relationship with my dad is a blessing. He is my dad, my mom, and my best friend all rolled into one. I fight every day to become half the person he is. He is such a good human being with such a good, pure heart. There are always two types of people that enter my life like a pattern: people like my mom and then people like my dad. The men that come into my life have very similar personalities with my mom: controlling, possessive, and aggressive.

2. I hate the 4 planets in Aries in the 7th house! I attract a lot of enemies, and they tend to be Aries-like. I can sit and do nothing but just breath, and it seems like I attract enemies. I don't see them as enemies, but one way or the other they feel threatened by me. From reading about all the aspects in my chart, I think its the Mars Pluto opposition. I am very independent; I feel like I can forever live without a man in my life, but I don't know if that's because of the Aries influence, or I am just put off by the men I attract. But I do know that if I ever fall in love deeply, I will commit with my entire heart, but getting there is a big obstacle.

3. Totally correct! You have described me better than I can ever describe myself. This entire paragraph is me. Even though I describe myself as independent, when it comes to my family, they have my entire heart. I will do anything for them. They are the only ones that can bring out emotions in me (by emotions I mean, my Cancerian traits). There is a desire to truly merge with people, but I keep them at an arms length. There are so many friends that I have lost touch with because of my fear of getting too close. I feel like if I ask for help from friends or show any emotional neediness, then I am showing them my weak side. I used to think of myself as a strong personality with fixed values that can tough it out, but things have changed, and I realized the importance of having healthy friendships in life that you can lean on.

4. Different people see different faces on me. Some people say that I am shy, some say I am bubbly. Once, two of my closest friends got together and they were talking about me and one friend described me as very shy and conservative, and my other friend described me as outgoing, and very chill and laid back about things. They couldn't see the other's description in me. Then there are the people who say I am an *itch and unapproachable, but then I smile and talk, and they are surprised. Yes, I expect people not to like me at first impression. I have always wanted to learn tennis! I might try that out.

5. "You may give and not receive" - that is something that is very hard for me to hear. I feel like in my relationship w/ my mom, I gave and gave and got little in return. I fear getting into a relationship where I have to give more. I feel like if they don't put the same amount of effort in me that I put into them, then they don't love me enough.
So personal growth comes from making friends? Making friends is difficult for me right now, but I do want to be in a happier place with happy people. I want to put myself out there to meet people from all walks of life, but in my mind right now I feel like I need to do some healing and personal growth privately before I let people into my life again. I hate showing people any kinds of emotions, or weakness.

6. I used to daydream a lot about how great my future was going to be. Does that count? LOL. I used to have creative hobbies such as learning to play the guitar, and knitting, but right now it feels like mental energy drainage when I attempt it. It tires me out.

7. Yup, my birth time is correct; my mom made sure she had someone record it. I have thought about law and business. I have been studying Vedic astrology also, and while I feel like I am an Aries Sun, I feel like Mercury in Pisces fits me better. It's hard to explain, but I feel like I might not do so well in law because my mind thinks in a very abstract, watery way. But I did well in business, so I thought why not just continue that. I always wanted to do law, so there is a divergence of head and heart.

8. I believe my Part of Fortune is in the third house.

Last edited by AriesSun100; 02-02-2016 at 03:15 AM.
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  #31  
Unread 02-02-2016, 02:37 AM
AriesSun100 AriesSun100 is offline
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Re: Natal Chart Reading

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Hey, no problem-- and thanks for the feedback.

I meant what I wrote about courage. With so much Aries (including a domiciled Mars) in your chart, you have the soul of the warrior. The key is to find the warrior's quest or just cause.

The generational Pluto-Uranus square in Capricorn-Aries has been hitting a lot of your folks with planets in cardinal signs. Just now Pluto is messing with your moon, so emotionally you may feel as though a big part of you has lost its center.

We see a lot of "please read my chart" requests on this forum, and the site's software rapidly moves older threads to the bottom of the deck, so there's nothing personal when some of them are unanswered.
"Soul of a Warrior" YAY!!!! LOL. I just started reading "The 5 Dharma Types" by Simon Chokoisky and he states that Souls can be categorized by 5 types - Outsider, Warrior, Merchant, Laborer, and Educator. And I so wanted to be the Warrior! I used to feel like it, then I started to question it. But I will take your comment as validation that it is! LOL.
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  #32  
Unread 02-02-2016, 02:48 AM
AriesSun100 AriesSun100 is offline
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Re: Natal Chart Reading

Katydid,

LOL. That's ok, you could have taken your time. It IS a very complex chart. I haven't finished reading your analysis, but I will come back with feedback.

Charon,

Ouch! LOL. I see some tough love in there, but that's ok, anything that will help me to figure myself out will help. I will be back with feedback. Thanks for giving me a reading!

DavidStarling,

Thanks for using my chart to learn and ask questions; it's helping me learn also...hehe.
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  #33  
Unread 02-02-2016, 03:00 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Natal Chart Reading

Waybread, Taurus IS a sign involved with material possessions, is it not? Unless you don't accept the standard "I have" assignation. It's the 2nd Sign of the Tropical year, and there's the 2nd House, that involves wealth and finance; not necessarily how you achieved it (commerce or inheritance), but that you have it. You mentioned litigation for the 7th House, and the 7th Sign is represented by the scales of Justice. The 3rd is said by some to involve siblings, and there's the Twins. So you're saying this is just a coincidence, and the Signs are entirely disconnected from the Houses in their meanings? See, here's my problem: With the Signs, we have something to go on--modes,elements, polarities, Rulers, images, (and numbers and key-words if you accept them). But for the Houses, unless they're in some way connected to the Signs, all you have is Opinion without Pattern. I am hoping you see a pattern I'm missing that doesn't involve the Signs.

Last edited by david starling; 02-02-2016 at 03:30 AM.
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  #34  
Unread 02-02-2016, 03:35 AM
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Re: Natal Chart Reading

David, I think the reason you associate Taurus with material possessions is because you are seeing Taurus through the lens of the second house. I think it's better to free yourself of this sign-house linkage because signs and houses mean fundamentally different things.

Sign: how or in what manner a planet operates
House: where or in what domain of life a planet operates.

Sign: works like an adjective or adverb in a sentence
House: works like a prepositional phrase in a sentence.

Taurus: the fixed earth sign, ruled by Venus. Jewelry is a second house Venusian matter, but hair-dressing seems like a first house Venusian matter. Taurus is only one of four fixed signs, and one of three earth signs. Earth=practical, material.

Suppose someone's 5th house sun is encompassed by Taurus. Possessions may be far less important to him than a stable family life. This might put Aquarius as the significant player in the second house, which as an air sign ruled by Saturn and Uranus, might have little interest in material acquisitions.

The main type of astrology with a strong sign-house correspondence is medical astrology. Aries and the first house both rule the head, for example.

Those "I have", "I feel, "I know" designations are very modern. Hey, I do modern astrology, but this doesn't mean I accept all of it 100%.

Litigation has nothing to do with the "scales of justice" but with the 7th as the house of "open enemies." The law as a body of knowledge is a 9th house matter.

As I said above, there are some decent sign-house correspondences (Gemini and brothers,) but then there are some that don't match up well at all, like the modern attribution of the motherly moon to the 4th house-- which initially meant one's father and patrimony.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 02-02-2016 at 03:40 AM.
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  #35  
Unread 02-02-2016, 04:02 AM
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Re: Natal Chart Reading

David, I strongly recommend Deborah Houlding, Houses: Temples of the Sky.

I can see the attraction of patterns, but not signs pasted onto houses simply because somebody likes the 12=12 correspondence. It's had a real Procrustean Bed effect on modern astrology's interpretation of signs and houses, which I don't find beneficial. I get totally irritated by astrology cookbooks that take cheap short cuts like sections on "Jupiter in Aquarius or the 11th house," because the meanings of Aquarius and the 11th house are different. There is a rationale behind the older signs/planets/ and houses designations, but it is a different rationale.

Some of the "opinions" on houses go back 2000 years.

First house: body, outward personality
Second house: personal finances and belongings (or an aversion to them!)
Third house: the near distance of neighbours and siblings. Communication, thought.
Fourth house: early childhood conditioning, patrimony
Fifth house: children and recreation
Sixth house: health/illness and service
Seventh house: long-term partnerships like marriage, open enemies
Eighth house: the edge between life and death
Ninth house: mental expansion: philosophy, higher education, theology, humanities
Tenth house: vocation in life, public image
Eleventh house: friends, hopes for the future
Twelfth house: confinement, secret enemies, "self-undoing"

That was easy.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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