Where the hell is this "sensitivity" coming from?

................

You don't have to make a big issue of your masculinity on an astrology Internet forum, RD! Your gender identity sounds extreme. Do you get along OK with actual women? Were you ridiculed as a kid for "acting like a girl"?

People with sun square Pluto were often bullied as children, so as adults they have difficulty in trusting their emotions with other people. Maybe this is why you felt that you had to harden yourself against personality traits that could be associated with weakness-- which you apparently associate with feminity. Sometimes it is the other way around (the schoolyard bully) but usually this happens later in life with a "bully of be bullied" mentality. Somewhere normal relationships are lost in the middle.

If you think about it, probably you know strong, self-confident women. Do they seem too "manly" to you?

Venus and the moon (the "girl planets") in your chart are involved in T-squares that just miss being a grand cross. So no doubt these are uncomfortable energies for you.

Generally the moon indicates your emotions in a chart, yet if you think about it, each planet can indicate emotions in some way. Mars can be anger; Saturn, loneliness, and so on.

If identifying with things too "feminine" for your liking is abhorent to you, you will find other outlets for your Venus and moon expressions. Venus also rules the arts, so perhaps music is acceptable to you. The moon indicates one's actual home, but also how you try to get your needs met. Interestingly your moon is in the "manly" sign of Aries. With your moon in the 7th house of partners and 'the other" you may be expecting your "crush" to meet your emotional needs because you've associated your emotions (moon) with an unwanted "feminine" and thus tried to disown it. But then if the relationship doesn't work out, you don't have that inner emotional repertory to fall back upon.

Moon square Uranus-Neptune suggests that your feelings are volatile.

The chart will out in some way. Either we manifest positive expressions of a given planet, negative expressions of it, or else we try to suppress it and deny it. Then it becomes Jungian "shadow" material for us, and we generally attract other people into our lives who seemingly embody the unwanted traits of the suppressed planet.

I have a big challenge for you. Try being OK with whatever if is inside you that you find unacceptably feminine. Maybe itemize some of these unwanted qualities on a piece of paper, and then just try to be OK with them. Try to see them as normal human emotions and experiences. It might take all of the raw courage you can muster to do this! (i.e., a job for a real man.)

waybread said:

You don't have to make a big issue of your masculinity on an astrology Internet forum, RD! Your gender identity sounds extreme. Do you get along OK with actual women? Were you ridiculed as a kid for "acting like a girl"?

People with sun square Pluto were often bullied as children, so as adults they have difficulty in trusting their emotions with other people. Maybe this is why you felt that you had to harden yourself against personality traits that could be associated with weakness-- which you apparently associate with feminity. Sometimes it is the other way around (the schoolyard bully) but usually this happens later in life with a "bully of be bullied" mentality. Somewhere normal relationships are lost in the middle.

Click to expand...

Holy son of a cow...this is so true that it's not even funny. Yes, when I was younger I did had those moments where people ridicule me for acting like a girl. For example, once when we were playing basketball outside, one of the teammates said that I "threw the ball like a girl". That comment really hurt me, so I stopped playing and walked back in the house. Then later on I decided to play again, but this time I tried to "throw like a dude", to prove the morons wrong that I'm not a sissy boy.

Indeed, I was also severely bullied when I was younger, especially in elementary school. No matter where I go, people always seem to want to target me, even though there are other weaker-looking kids around me. Like on the bus, the so-called cool kids would gang up on me for some reason and kick me just to see my reaction. Of course, being the "tough guy" I am, I tried to defend myself by kicking all of them back. We were basically having a kicking war at the back of the bus with all the kids watching and laughing. But I wasn't sure if they were on my side or the bullies side...either way, I don't care because at the end of the day it's ME who is the best.

I guess you could say I tend to attract bullies like a magnet, but the funny thing is that I was a bully myself at some point as well. I used to always loved to pick on my younger cousin, calling her names and shoving stuffed animals on her face n' whatnot every time her mom drops her off at my house. I was a really mean kid back then, lol. But deep down I'm also quite sensitive, which is weird considering I don't have that much Water in my chart. Although, I do have that Moon square Neptune...which I feel affects me quite a bit.

After you matured somewhat, did you apologize to your cousin?

People with sun square Pluto often learn not to trust people when they grow up. They understand relationships as a "zero-sum game," meaning there is only a finite amount of power to go around. More power for A automatically means less power for B, and vice versa. So all kinds of little things can turn into a real test of wills for no good reason. The bullied child can easily become the bully in turn because he doesn't get a sense of options outside of this binary.

It is hard to sustain a loving, caring, relaxed relationship with this dynamic in the mix.

But Pluto can also be the power of self-transformation.

I noticed the Sun and Mars actually form harmonious aspects (sextiles and trines) to some of these tense planets that almost make a Grand Cross.
The Sun takes the pressure off the Moon and Jupiter, and Mars takes pressure off some of the other planets. The effect of the Sun and Mars is to neutralize these other planets.

So the effect is like huge tension, then neutralization by Sun and Mars, and then whatever is leftover becomes loose ends (i.e. the Venus is a loose end).

Venus is ruled by the Moon which is in turn ruled by Mars, so your "feminine" characteristics seem like they should be subject to the Mars (masculine characteristics). They often are, but they can emerge in a big way because the Venus is in Water and the Moon is in Aries.

ILike2Paint said:

I noticed the Sun and Mars actually form harmonious aspects (sextiles and trines) to some of these tense planets that almost make a Grand Cross.
The Sun takes the pressure off the Moon and Jupiter, and Mars takes pressure off some of the other planets. The effect of the Sun and Mars is to neutralize these other planets.

So the effect is like huge tension, then neutralization by Sun and Mars, and then whatever is leftover becomes loose ends (i.e. the Venus is a loose end).

Venus is ruled by the Moon which is in turn ruled by Mars, so your "feminine" characteristics seem like they should be subject to the Mars (masculine characteristics). They often are, but they can emerge in a big way because the Venus is in Water and the Moon is in Aries.

Click to expand...

Hmm, interesting.

But what do you mean by loose end? Does it mean anything weird when planets become "loose ends"?

And yes, I'm predominantly manly. I'm MORE than a man, in a man, like a man, of a man's man in EACH and EVERY possible way. Testosterone is basically my nickname.

Though, my Venus in Cancer always likes to remind me that it's okay to cry every once in a while, which my Moon in Aries isn't very comfortable with.

That's when the Moon square Neptune comes in to play, to help sensitize me a bit and make me slightly more wimpy than typical Aries Moons. But nevertheless, I'm STILL super tough and head-strong, especially since Mars tightly conjuncts my Ascendant.

RandomDude, you write like someone who has something to prove.

Note that in many cultures it is perfectly exceptable for men to display emotion.

Speaking as a guy here, its going to be difficult for you to learn to grow properly if you limit yourself to experiencing only those parts of our culture which are masculine, angry, and "hard". What you need to deal with in your life is going to require you to step outside of that.

If you cannot be willing to do that, then all the astrology in the world that tries help you develop as a whole person will fail.

There is another person here with the same problem. He keeps talking about his failure to have relationships but he refuses to give up his Warrior persona where he perceives everyone as an adversary that he needs to prove he is stronger and better than---including every woman.

This is your first step---recognize that you can develop your sensitive -non-masculine side without giving up your masculinity.

Don't believe that cr@p about how real men don't eat quiche.

Z

P.S.: I'd be happy to look at your chart but you've eliminated the long/lat. if you want to share that with me via PM, I could help, but again, it won't work if you are eliminating half of your chart.

Zarathu said:

Speaking as a guy here, its going to be difficult for you to learn to grow properly if you limit yourself to experiencing only those parts of our culture which are masculine, angry, and "hard". What you need to deal with in your life is going to require you to step outside of that.

If you cannot be willing to do that, then all the astrology in the world that tries help you develop as a whole person will fail.

There is another person here with the same problem. He keeps talking about his failure to have relationships but he refuses to give up his Warrior persona where he perceives everyone as an adversary that he needs to prove he is stronger and better than---including every woman.

This is your first step---recognize that you can develop your sensitive -non-masculine side without giving up your masculinity.

Don't believe that cr@p about how real men don't eat quiche.

Z

P.S.: I'd be happy to look at your chart but you've eliminated the long/lat. if you want to share that with me via PM, I could help, but again, it won't work if you are eliminating half of your chart.

Click to expand...

I agree 100% with Zarathup. I am a female but I feel that I have been on this Earth long enough to say that I don't really care what people think of me; am I feminine enough, womanly? Don't get me wrong I mean I do adhere to proper social customs in public to a certain degree but I think masculinity/femininity is basically in the "eye of the beholder" is it not?

I am sorry for anyone who has suffered by being bullied but it's so rampant, so common among kids of a certain age I don't know anyone who escaped it even once! I know how devastating bullying can be personally.

Blessings
Serafin5

Also no one has noted that you have a Yod on your chart, which consists Mercury and Mars and the apex is Saturn that is also retrograde.
Saturn retrograde can mean that the person has problems with self-acceptance and self-esteem. These people are often very hard on themselves and usually with this placement these individuals have had a strong authority figure (usually male and usually the father) who has pushed these people for taking initiative and authority in their own lives, but it might have gone to the extreme. Sometimes this means that in the last incarnation this person did NOT take responsibility for his actions or himself and in this life time he needs to do that and he is surrounded by people who push him to do that. However, it can go to the extreme and to the point where the person thinks that many of the things that are not actually his responsibility, are his responsibility and this causes a lot of tension inside. So boundaries with responsibility is one thing to consider.

The YOD - configuration basically means that in order to fully mature and get the potential of this configuration out into the world and into your experience, you need to gain self-confidence and true self-esteem that is based on clear idea of yourself, your individuality and standing firmly on your feet, being truly who you are and taking responsibility and natural authority over your life. This is also something that is very MANLY energy, but it cannot be faked. It needs to come from deep within, deep knowing, deep appreciation for who you are. And because Saturn rules your 5th house, your creativity and attraction power for women will also go off the roof when you get this and you will most probably then find a life partner for yourself.

But first....need to do some inner work!!!

RandomDude said:

I'm a very manly man and strongly dislike anything remotely "feminine". I always strive to be as manly as possible, because it's who I am and what makes me feel most comfortable. But at the same time, I noticed there is a little bit of "girl" in me too...not literally per se, but emotionally. I'm definitely NOT an emotional person, but I do have my vulnerable moments.

For instance, I have an awkward tendency to tear up when I listen to certain music. It doesn't even have to be sad music, just the melody alone and the way it sounds that touches my heart.

Also, when something bad happens to me (e.g Getting rejected by my crush, being ignored by everyone, feeling unloved and uncared for, etc etc) it'll make me really depressed, so then I'll start to have suicidal thoughts and basically feel hopeless about life. Of course I don't ever act on these thoughts, but I'm constantly fighting back tears when I do feel depressed. Though, the funny thing is that I'll quickly be in an elevated mood and feel happy for no reason...even if I was sad 10 minutes ago, haha.

I want to blame this on my Cancer placements, but I can't because Venus and Mercury has nothing to do with emotion. Unless it does? I dunno haha. I have a feeling it has something to do with my Moon, especially the aspects to it.

Anyways, I feel really stupid posting this thread...like I said before, I'm uncomfortable with femininity, but at least I'm "manned up" enough to acknowledge my sensitivity and have the guts to humiliate myself like this on an Astrology forum!

Here's my chart:

Click to expand...

Emotional well being, Mercury representing your logical mind if afflicted can lead to negative thoughts and irrational thoughts that is not necessary objective and true can therefore lead to unnecessary unstable emotion then unstable emotion will make you feel ashamed of why you were so emotional then it can lead to more negative thoughts therefore decrease self esteem and criticize yourself more Virgo ascendant.

Virgo ascendant>Mercury in Cancer in Peregrine>Moon in Aries in Peregrine>Mars in Virgo in Term in his own home and also have accidental dignity being close to ascendant and in angular house. Ruler of Virgo Mars Mercury in Cancer is in Mar's Fall which is placed in 11th house of friends.

The key issue is Mercury in Cancer being in Peregrine. While the ruler of Mercury and Venus in Cancer, Moon in Aries also in Peregrine. Venus the planet of love and self love is most elevated in 10th house. You concern of your self image, relation to among your friends and public image is as you said concerning you a lot.

Being a Sun in Leo you want to be the boss and to lead, Sun trine his exaltation Aries Moon, I bet women in your life admire you since the Moon exalts the Sun, in 11th house that's you among your friends/networks the Sun dignified and bright even exalted to be lifted as king of kings psychologically anyway. But underneath, your self value, valuing system of yourself is Venus in Cancer so the due to Moon being in Peregrine, your true confident is low and alien. Venus though still have accidental dignity being at 10th so not all bad and you will be known by public due to your Venus in Cancer which is actually ok to show your sensitivity, the square between Venus Jupiter, the tension can be release through the sextile of Jupiter to Sun.

The Yod of Saturn Rx is talking about your 5th house, life goal, your longing is related to the 5th house activities, hobby, romance, children, sex, sport, entertainment, self expression, creatives, arts etc. Saturn Rx is placed in 6th your daily routine, with your information, do you do body building daily then? Since this Yod is formed by ascendant's ruler Mercury, Mars at AC. The interesting connection of this Yod is Saturn opposed Chiron. I wonder if you would like to share a bit of your 5th house and if you do do body building what is your idea and goal and why you think you would do that may be related to wound/healing? Chiron also semi sextile both Mercury and Mars....Chiron is at the very edge of 11th and 12th cusp the back door and front door of these two houses. Sun is your ruler of the 12th placed in 11th. What you think of your friends, how they influences you?

1st Jupiter sextile NN and 7th Moon trine NN, these are good configurations, Jupiter even rules NN, anything you would like to share about your 3rd house, communication, siblings, books, neighbors, local community, vehicles, transportation etc. Jupiter also rules your 4th places in 1st, you have physical tight with your parents and family that is also related to your career since Venus the ruler of Jupiter placed in 10th, further down is Moon in 7th, Mars in 1st. The links are 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th all angular.

Overall, you are 10 years younger than my age. When I was at your age, I felt just as terrible don't worry as you get older gaining more maturity, security, being a Virgo ascendant myself also having Mars in Virgo, once you have learn your skills for work (Virgo has to work), and have financial security (Earth sign), you will have better self image from personal point of view, once a Virgo can serve and help and fix something then Virgo won't have the time to be as critical on yourself.

Anyhow, just my leisure reading for you here.

Well, I can tie up what I called "loose ends" with this.
These planets (Venus, Saturn, Pluto) looked like loose ends to me, but they're really not. Sorry!

The Sun is Square with Pluto, Pluto is Square with Saturn, and Saturn is trine Venus. That path takes all the outside planets into account.

Now I see another reason for the drive for masculinity, the Pluto is strong (in Scorpio and in the 2nd house) and tensely aspected.
Also, note the Venus in Cancer along this counterclockwise path is last, so it seems like Venus things are last in priority in the chart.

I would like to know what RANDOM DUDE has to say now that all these people have posted about his problem. Is he here anymore or are we allspeakin' to the wind?