mid life transits and changes

hi everyone, a preety odd question: apart from the usual cookbook chiron return at 51, uranus opposition at 42 etc, has anyone experienced early menopause and do you know which transits- progressions, or SR patterns could indicate that? any insight is very appreciated. thanks

Frisangal is on forum today - you might ask her. She is a a skilled and knowledgeable medical astrologer.

I'm 55.5 and still monthly - but I'm interested in knowing when this will all come to and end for myself. I'll be eager to read what Frisangal writes - you might msg. her so that she knows about this question.

desperateneptune said:

hi everyone, a preety odd question: apart from the usual cookbook chiron return at 51, uranus opposition at 42 etc, has anyone experienced early menopause and do you know which transits- progressions, or SR patterns could indicate that? any insight is very appreciated. thanks

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For issues around reproductive functioning, I would look for a Moon or Cancer in the 6th house or difficult aspects to the moon, natal or by transit.

Julia Karmic Astrology said:

For issues around reproductive functioning, I would look for a Moon or Cancer in the 6th house or difficult aspects to the moon, natal or by transit.

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hmm i am having tr saturn opposing my natal moon and tr pluto from 8th squaring for ever! my venus pluto NN conjunction in the 5th. venus is my 6th ruler.

Saturn, though, is usually prolonged, hard endings - or clean cuts at best. It is not typically an early planet - and in fact, can herald future problems or delays when he shows up and asks you deal with them now, while they are manageable.

How early is early - in btwn menses can be indications of another problem possibly if saturn has relation to 6th through mercury or other house ruler that is giving 'early info'. One year of no menses is considered menopause - and early menopause can start happening at a Saturn square, I imagine.

But like Saturn in general - it is a process, not an event - and depending upon Saturn's position and house ruler - it could be a sign of 'long time to come before it ends, so mind your p's & q's - or it could indicate one who trys to outwait warning and has to suffer consequences (getting knocked up).

One is still fertile until one year of ceased menses, from what i've read - however the quality of eggs are diminished greatly.

as early as 38 years old yes.. i agree completely with u about saturn that is why i am skeptical...pluto is transiting my 8th currently squaring my 5th natal venus and venus is my 6th ruler. well doctors cant really tell u anything before its too late actually

Hi,
Seems people do listen to Kitchy.

Early menopause issues can have many causes which might find an association within astro. correspondences. Without a chart it's a case of merely guessing any possibilities. From OP's post,

hmm i am having tr saturn opposing my natal moon and tr pluto from 8th squaring for ever!

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I can't see how transit Saturn opposing Moon, meaning a Moon in Gemini, can mean that Moon is also undergoing a square transit from Pluto in 8th.
Depending upon its aspects Moon in Gemini can show a nervy behavioural pattern.

pluto is transiting my 8th currently squaring my 5th natal venus and venus is my 6th ruler

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This could explain the 'hormone upheaval' as it means that Libra is on the 6th house cusp. Libra has associations with the feminine ovaries/fallopian tubes (one ovum release per side in alternate months) rather than the Scorpio ruled reproduction (fertilised ovum).
Transits Uranus in Aries and Pluto in Capricorn squared each other earlier in the year. If this coincided with aspects to natal Venus, there could be a correspondence with 'a sudden jolt' to hormone balance. This could also find a relationship with a sudden change in 5th house 'romantic issues' that, in turn, affected the system. It would seem that Moon and Venus in Air signs must trine each other if both are affected by the current transits
of Saturn and Pluto. As AIR represents agility of movement in all 'tubes' of the body, transit Saturn to Moon could be producing 'a blockage' of some kind in the system, just as it could be blocking feelings in terms of accepting a condition of reality in life.
Pluto's house rulership (or interception) would also provide more information, as would Venus's meaning in its rulership of Taurus.

Aside; the astrological point MEAN transiting Black Moon Lilith is currently in Scorpio. There are strong associations with the inner child , issues from or regarding childbirth, and images of that which never physically occured, yet take on an inner reality of their own. It would be interesting to note any (dis)connections from its position that apply to the current situation.

sorry, it's only silly to ask something without a chart. I attach it if u wish to take a glance. my Lilith is 21 Gemini, it is not shown in the chart. thank u

after seeing this chart - fris - tell me your take on it?

this has nothing to do with saturn - unless your mother isn't well - or unless you have some guilt about childbearing and are actually wishing for a closing to your childbearing years.

but!

neptune pluto moon in harmony in 1st 5th 7th tells me kids are the question. check for infirtility in medical setting. this might be saturn's early warning for you if you want to have children.

hmmm i agree it cant be saturn, if we could give him something to play with, during this transit is my stomach which has 3 ulcers! another intersting pattern in my progressed chart is urNus conjunct moon in the 5th house which could indicate erratic menses maybe. i have already followed medical route but i cant getna clear idea about it

Kitchy said:

after seeing this chart - fris - tell me your take on it?

this has nothing to do with saturn .................

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If the birth time is 'around or later than' 7pm., Saturn is ruler of the 8th house concerned with reproduction and could be very important, especially as it is in the 4th house and semi-square Pluto-NN in Libra.
Saturn has been weighing heavy upon the natal Moon-Neptune for quite a while. Fears of 'what might be' may result in not seeking medical advice that would be bring clarity regarding a physical problem.

The chart shows no object other than Chiron in Earth signs. Dealing with issues in reality may not come easily , whereas it could well be the path towards (self)healing. There is a Sun-Mars-Chiron T-square that takes in the 6th house of physical complaints? I mentioned the ovaries system and fallopian tubes. Is it coincidence that Ebertin's Astronomical Correspondences places the tubes on 7* and 8* Scorpio (I thought Libra connection).

I looked up the recent secondary progressions. Secondary progressed Moon has been in Scorpio for a while to effect the T-square, beginning with Mars in Leo. Mars is renowned for its influence upon inflammations, bacterial infections, heat rashes etc. S.p. Moon has since conjoined natal Sun, completing the T-square influence.
S.p. Moon has also conjoined transitng MEAN Black Moon Lilith in Scorpio!
S.p. Mercury, ruler Ascendant, opposes natalJupiter; s.p. Venus, is inconjunct natal Jupiter;
s.p. Mars is squaring Uranus.
All could add their influence to any internal issue making its presence felt through physical symptoms arising.

A positive aspect is s.p. Sun from the 7th house sextiling natal Venus-NN-Pluto.
A good Sagittarius type specialist along with a positive change of heart could go a long way in turning any seemingly adverse situation around.

desperateneptune said:

hmmm i agree it cant be saturn, if we could give him something to play with, during this transit is my stomach which has 3 ulcers! another

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Natal Moon inconjunct Mercury acoss 1st-6th houses, also influenced by s.p. Moon through the signs (incl. Virgo).

Maybe you could start talking about outer issues that plague you that bring about inner issues that lead to expression of a physical kind.

Frisiangal said:

Natal Moon inconjunct Mercury acoss 1st-6th houses, also influenced by s.p. Moon through the signs (incl. Virgo).

Maybe you could start talking about outer issues that plague you that bring about inner issues that lead to expression of a physical kind.

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everything has been checked, there is no evident physical problem,doctors said hormones are not a reliable indicator unless its too late. i wish i knew what my inner issues were... the past 4 years have been chaotic for me, with life changing incidents

desperateneptune said:

everything has been checked, there is no evident physical problem,doctors said hormones are not a reliable indicator unless its too late. i wish i knew what my inner issues were... the past 4 years have been chaotic for me, with life changing incidents

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That sounds like a contradiction of terms; chaotic 4 years, life changing incidents, yet that had no inner impact, i.e upon your feelings?

Maybe the natal Moon conjunct MEAN BML will not admit to, and/or chooses to disconnect from 'feelings' because the actual episodes they represent are too painful (Moon semi-square Chiron)to bring to the surface. Therefore any(important) influence they are attempting to impart can be ignored and discarded? Neptune in oppostion is good at creating fogginess instead of preferably lifting it.

I cannot understand a physician saying 'hormones' are not a reliable indicator regarding the complaint you speak of......unless (s)she means they are mentally/emotionally induced, in which case another kind of treatment is necessary. Therapy of some kind?

Good luck to you in discovering the truth, whatever you decide (not) to do.

This thread has got me thinking of the medical procedure "hysterectomy" - which removes "hysteria" of the woman by archaic terms.

Both my mom and her mom had hysterectomies prescribed by MD's in their mid 40's, according to their accounts, in the 50's and in the early 70's. It has been modern medicine's way of getting rid of the powerful hormones in a woman's chart and being.

I am 55.5 yrs old - I started having signs of early menopause in my very early 40's - hot flashes and night sweating - and they have occured in cycles every month since. Yet I am still bleeding. The moon reflects ebbs and flows of tides every month - and when moon-conjuncts saturn in my chart - periods are stingey - quick and efficient. I've been tracking menses since 1989 after my son was born (conceived by surprise) - because I didn't want to get pregnant again ever - and so far so good.

The hysteria of being a mother is fear enough for many women to alter their cycles, medically or spiritually/internally, I believe.

I am very curious about the querant's concern above and beyond "something isn't right".

Does she want to have children and believes she shouldn't or can't or does she not want to have children?

From pure gut instinct, I believe this is an indication of querant's need or un-need to have children.

Yes, it could be "other problems" and I agree with Fris when she says a medical professional should not dismiss hormonal changes, but I really think this is a matter of querant wanting or not wanting to get pregnant and looking for answers to her dilemma.

Frisiangal said:

That sounds like a contradiction of terms; chaotic 4 years, life changing incidents, yet that had no inner impact, i.e upon your feelings?

Maybe the natal Moon conjunct MEAN BML will not admit to, and/or chooses to disconnect from 'feelings' because the actual episodes they represent are too painful (Moon semi-square Chiron)to bring to the surface. Therefore any(important) influence they are attempting to impart can be ignored and discarded? Neptune in oppostion is good at creating fogginess instead of preferably lifting it.

I cannot understand a physician saying 'hormones' are not a reliable indicator regarding the complaint you speak of......unless (s)she means they are mentally/emotionally induced, in which case another kind of treatment is necessary. Therapy of some kind?

Good luck to you in discovering the truth, whatever you decide (not) to do.

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meaning they fluctuate and could appear normal and then 2 months later could be indicative of menopause phase, meaning i can verify it when it would be too late. what u describe is exactly true, i maintain a happy exterior under the most stressful of circumstances and have an inner "denial" of depression, no matter how maddening exterior life gets

Kitchy said:

This thread has got me thinking of the medical procedure "hysterectomy" - which removes "hysteria" of the woman by archaic terms.

Both my mom and her mom had hysterectomies prescribed by MD's in their mid 40's, according to their accounts, in the 50's and in the early 70's. It has been modern medicine's way of getting rid of the powerful hormones in a woman's chart and being.

I am 55.5 yrs old - I started having signs of early menopause in my very early 40's - hot flashes and night sweating - and they have occured in cycles every month since. Yet I am still bleeding. The moon reflects ebbs and flows of tides every month - and when moon-conjuncts saturn in my chart - periods are stingey - quick and efficient. I've been tracking menses since 1989 after my son was born (conceived by surprise) - because I didn't want to get pregnant again ever - and so far so good.

The hysteria of being a mother is fear enough for many women to alter their cycles, medically or spiritually/internally, I believe.

I am very curious about the querant's concern above and beyond "something isn't right".

Does she want to have children and believes she shouldn't or can't or does she not want to have children?

From pure gut instinct, I believe this is an indication of querant's need or un-need to have children.

Yes, it could be "other problems" and I agree with Fris when she says a medical professional should not dismiss hormonal changes, but I really think this is a matter of querant wanting or not wanting to get pregnant and looking for answers to her dilemma.

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if u really believe what u say i find it very comforting.. there must an inner dillema manifesting as erratic cycles, hot flashes, rapid aging which again is something that alarms me, and taking under consideration the mess my life is currently in- i must be following a direction my inner self objects to