Conjunction in Love Horaries

I have been getting a few conjunctions in the horaries I've done regarding a past love. Anything I ask, is answered with a conjunction of our signifactors. He has been Saturn once, but mostly Mars.

This is a 2-part question. What does a conjunction mean really? Uniting as a relationship or sex or could it be just a meeting?

Also, if you conjunct a partner that is signified by a malefic, is the conjunction always inimical?

Looking forward to opinions.

SagiCap said:

I have been getting a few conjunctions in the horaries I've done regarding a past love. Anything I ask, is answered with a conjunction of our signifactors. He has been Saturn once, but mostly Mars.

This is a 2-part question. What does a conjunction mean really? Uniting as a relationship or sex or could it be just a meeting?

Also, if you conjunct a partner that is signified by a malefic, is the conjunction always inimical?

Looking forward to opinions.

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A conjunction brings the question to perfection, in other words an affirmative answer to whatever the question is. A malefic usually means that the outcome is not always what is hoped for. I think it usually means some sort of disappointment.

It also matters if it is applying or seperating. If it is applying, it would show a perfection. If seperating, moving away.

Frank said:

It also matters if it is applying or seperating. If it is applying, it would show a perfection. If seperating, moving away.

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Oh yes, my bad for not mentioning that...took it for granted that applying only aspects were known to the querant, but should never assume.

Frank said:

It also matters if it is applying or seperating. If it is applying, it would show a perfection. If seperating, moving away.

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Thanks so much Frank. All of these have been applying conjunctions.

Are you both saying that any conjunction with Mars for instance, is bad news? (If the signifactor for the other Mars?)

ie: My question is "Will I see him?" or "Will we unite in a relationship?" - so am I to think that this will be a bad relationship or a negative meeting in that case?

Vista said:

A conjunction brings the question to perfection, in other words an affirmative answer to whatever the question is. A malefic usually means that the outcome is not always what is hoped for. I think it usually means some sort of disappointment.

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Thank you, Vista.

A malefic as a significator is not always bad. It depends on its condition.

Also, in love horaries Mars is a secondary signifcator for the man, just as Venus is a secondary significator for the woman. Moon and Sun the same way also.

In addition to conjunctions, always check for parallels of declination which (with the exception of a few authorities) have been counted as equivalent to strong conjunctions by many (if not most) astrological authorities since around 400 AD-if you make charts through astro.com, this declination information is found by printing out "additional pdf" indicated on the top left of the chart when it comes up on your computer screen.

Frank said:

A malefic as a significator is not always bad. It depends on its condition.

Also, in love horaries Mars is a secondary signifcator for the man, just as Venus is a secondary significator for the woman. Moon and Sun the same way also.

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Thanks Frank, that's exactly what I wanted to know.

dr. farr said:

In addition to conjunctions, always check for parallels of declination which (with the exception of a few authorities) have been counted as equivalent to strong conjunctions by many (if not most) astrological authorities since around 400 AD-if you make charts through astro.com, this declination information is found by printing out "additional pdf" indicated on the top left of the chart when it comes up on your computer screen.

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is this related to "antiscions?" another aspect I don't know anything about. I have a lot of reading to do. I'll search about this today. Thsnk you very much, dr. Farr!

So, I'm still not finding adequate info or anyone's experience on what exactly a conjunction in a love horary means exactly. Was I right about my guesses above?

SagiCap said:

So, I'm still not finding adequate info or anyone's experience on what exactly a conjunction in a love horary means exactly. Was I right about my guesses above?

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Lilly says, " planets that are significators in anything, if they are in conjunction and in a sign agreeing to their own nature, then the thing questied after is brought to perfection with much ease and facility, else not."

I think it's stronger than a trine.

Frank said:

A malefic as a significator is not always bad. It depends on its condition.

Also, in love horaries Mars is a secondary signifcator for the man, just as Venus is a secondary significator for the woman. Moon and Sun the same way also.

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I have never read that Mars is a secondary significator of a man, only the Sun. If you look at Lilly's writings on the subject of relationships, marriage, etc, He never mentions once to use Mars, that is unless Mars is the questied ruler. Logically it makes sense, i.e. Venus = woman, Mars = man, but not according to his teachings.

SagiCap said:

is this related to "antiscions?" another aspect I don't know anything about. I have a lot of reading to do. I'll search about this today. Thank you very much, dr. Farr!

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The parallel of declination means a parallel of 2 or more planets within 1 degree of each other, either both being on the north side or both being on the south side, of the ecliptic. This is different than antiscion. These parallels have been regarded as equivalent in meaning and influence to conjunctions (many of those accepting this concept believing equivalent to strong, powerful conjunctions) As an example of information which can be brought to light when using parallels of declination, see my delineation of the John Lennon birth chart in the Celebrity Astrology section.

SagiCap said:

So, I'm still not finding adequate info or anyone's experience on what exactly a conjunction in a love horary means exactly. Was I right about my guesses above?

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First I would like to draw your attention to Vista's post above-I think this gives an excellent idea of the situation regarding conjunction of significators.

Second, according to the Ankara (Old Turkish) tradition I learned (and mostly follow) in horary, a conjunction of primary significators (or, even moreso, their parallel of declination) means a coming together or mixture into a unity, of the persons or matters or circumstances each of the significators represents; whether these significator planets are "benefic" or "malefic" is NOT the point, rather the circumstances of the conjunction/parallel and the connections of these conjunct/parallel planets to other chart elements, points toward + or - testimony deductions. However, the very fact of the conjunction/parallel of the primary significators usually is taken (in the Ankara tradition) as mostly being of an auspicious nature (that's regardless of the planets involved)

Now, I re-iterate that the above is (what I learned of) the Ankara tradition outlook regarding this question: other horary approaches may have a different outlook regarding this specific question.

Super. I am really happy with the info and answers on this thread. It really helps. THANK YOU ALL!

I found interesting take on it: http://astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26254

I also like Vista's reply the most.

what about conjunctions with two main significators ( Mars and Venus in Libra sitting right on each other 12 degrees ) but both conjuncting Saturn also in Libra?

ASTROLOGIA MUNDA

what about conjunctions with two main significators ( Mars and Venus in Libra sitting right on each other 12 degrees ) but both conjuncting Saturn also in Libra?

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Venus and Mars are conjunct, but neither conjuncts Saturn. The Planetary Order is:

Saturn
Jupiter
Mars
Sun
Venus
Mercury
Moon

A Planet can only aspect the Planet above it. Saturn can never aspect any Planet (unless Saturn is Retrograde and that is an aspect Mutual Application which is another animal that has to be carefully studied).

The moiety orb for Venus/Mars and Saturn is 9° so Venus and Mars are not in aspect. Even if they were only 3° apart, they still aren't in aspect because that would be a separating aspect. Planets separate at 6' to 9' or arc (and that is minutes and not degrees).

Venus 23° Leo 31' and Jupiter 22° Sagittarius 18' Venus has separated from a trine and released Jupiter and that is an event in the past by days, weeks, months, years or who knows depending on the house Venus is in.

Conjunctions are good or bad, as the Planets in Conjunction are friends or enemies to one another. -- Lilly

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Mars loves Venus, but Venus loves him not. - Lily (quoting Bonatti)

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Therefore Venus with Mars, produces merely amorous dispositions. -- Ptolemy

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Speaking in very general terms and assuming that neither Venus nor Mars are Slow, Retrograde or Peregrine and assuming there is Reception between Venus and Mars then Venus/Mars conjunctions usually are a "yes."

When a Venus/Mars conjunction takes place in Aries, Taurus, Libra or Scorpio, the answer can still be "yes" but it is not a good "yes." The reason is that one is debilitated and the other is in dignity. What you get is one person holding power over another.

That is specifically the case with Venus conjunct Mars in Libra. Venus is strong in Rulership and Mars is weak in Detriment. That is something that is incredibly one-sided and if there is no Reception then it is one-sided and unwanted.

I don't even need to look at the chart to know that Mars at 12° Libra is Peregrine and very very weak. Mars is totally out of control, whoever that is, and that is not a good thing, even though it may be a "yes."

Vista said:

I have never read that Mars is a secondary significator of a man, only the Sun. If you look at Lilly's writings on the subject of relationships, marriage, etc, He never mentions once to use Mars, that is unless Mars is the questied ruler. Logically it makes sense, i.e. Venus = woman, Mars = man, but not according to his teachings.

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I'm with you. The Sun is a secondary significator because the Sun represents the Father, a Man etc.

Another reason it is the Sun and not Mars is because the Sun represents youthful man, while Mars represents a man aged 41-56.

In Lily's day, if you weren't married by the time you were 41 it was because you were dead from malaria, the Plague, war, famine or some other disease or you got run over by a horse and cart.

BobZemco said:

ASTROLOGIA MUNDA Venus and Mars are conjunct, but neither conjuncts Saturn. The Planetary Order is:

Saturn
Jupiter
Mars
Sun
Venus
Mercury
Moon

A Planet can only aspect the Planet above it. Saturn can never aspect any Planet (unless Saturn is Retrograde and that is an aspect Mutual Application which is another animal that has to be carefully studied).

The moiety orb for Venus/Mars and Saturn is 9° so Venus and Mars are not in aspect. Even if they were only 3° apart, they still aren't in aspect because that would be a separating aspect. Planets separate at 6' to 9' or arc (and that is minutes and not degrees).

Venus 23° Leo 31' and Jupiter 22° Sagittarius 18' Venus has separated from a trine and released Jupiter and that is an event in the past by days, weeks, months, years or who knows depending on the house Venus is in.

Speaking in very general terms and assuming that neither Venus nor Mars are Slow, Retrograde or Peregrine and assuming there is Reception between Venus and Mars then Venus/Mars conjunctions usually are a "yes."

When a Venus/Mars conjunction takes place in Aries, Taurus, Libra or Scorpio, the answer can still be "yes" but it is not a good "yes." The reason is that one is debilitated and the other is in dignity. What you get is one person holding power over another.

That is specifically the case with Venus conjunct Mars in Libra. Venus is strong in Rulership and Mars is weak in Detriment. That is something that is incredibly one-sided and if there is no Reception then it is one-sided and unwanted.

I don't even need to look at the chart to know that Mars at 12° Libra is Peregrine and very very weak. Mars is totally out of control, whoever that is, and that is not a good thing, even though it may be a "yes."

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Thanks Bob. I make mistakes,but it's still fuzzy to me,appreciate you putting it in perspective.
The thing was,the first house of the chart was scorpio, and the ascendant Libra,yet the 7th house ( quesited ) was Taurus,so the 7th house would be Venus,and the scorpio person Mars,both Mars and Venus were in the 12th house ( guess that makes it the more all the worse for the weak Mars person )

But if a conjunction means they will meet,and one person has the upper hand,why would the person having the upper hand even want to give the other a chance? Bluntly it means Venus wants nothing to do with Mars?
In the chart the Sun (Leo ) made a trine to Moon ( Sag ) don't know if it's of any use.