Random Thoughts, strictly Text

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david starling

Well-known member
Didn't know the attitude towards Fate versus Free-will thread was being more closely monitored, since I've stopped paying any attention to it. I did get one good take-away: "Divine Providence", which is possibly the foundational philosophy upon which Traditionalistic astrology rests.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
clearly despite APPARENT freewill to have posted this comment on the other thread
in REALITY the "freewill" to do so is merely theoretical :smile:
because your comment would have been deleted as "off-topic"
thus illustrating the obvious lack of "freewill" to act
because of the fatedness for comments that are deemed "off-topic" for some threads
but ok on chat threads
our forum allows that comment on chat but not on the fate thread :smile:

in fact currently that thread deletes all comments that are "non-astrological"
thus illustrating that the thread is not "a pretty loose thread"
and also illustrating the lack of choice to post comments
since fate "freewill" concept may only be
as you define it:
"loosely" discussed on chat
i.e.
must have "astrological content" on that other thread
or shall be deleted
Click to expand...

"Free-will" doesn't include the precept that one can break all the rules with impunity. Where did anyone get that idea?
Actions have consequences, whether they result from a free-will choice, or are not under our own control.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
The question is, what, exactly is "Free-will" free FROM? We're all constantly subject to circumstances beyond our control, and that makes "Free-will" a reaction to those circumstances, rather than a free agent of independent choices.
Another question is, are the "circumstances beyond one's control" haphazard and possibly subject to some measure of control due to how one chooses to react to them; or, are those circumstances pre-ordained and immutable?
 
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conspiracy theorist

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
The topic of that thread was broad at the outset, and to explore the implications of the role of free-will and fate one would have to do an investigation on how traditional and modern branches of astrology are constituted, and a comparison of the two astrologies couldn't be out of line since the underlying axioms of each branch also informs such things as the role of fate and free-will. A broader look at what the tradition says and what the modern branches had to offer was inevitable and enriches the discussion, as opposed to trying to limit a discussion which originally wasn't even that streamlined in its beginning (since it was an ad-hoc decision to create a new thread for discussion by a moderator)
 
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david starling

Well-known member
conspiracy theorist said:
The topic of that thread was broad at the outset, and to explore the implications of the role of free-will and fate one would have to do an investigation on how traditional and modern branches of astrology are constituted, and a comparison of the two astrologies couldn't be out of line since the underlying axioms of each branch also informs such things as the role of fate and free-will. A broader look at what the tradition says and what the modern branches had to offer was inevitable and enriches the discussion, as opposed to trying to limit a discussion which originally wasn't even that streamlined in its beginning (since it was an ad-hoc decision to create a new thread for discussion by a moderator)
Click to expand...

Warnock seems to believe that Traditionalistic astrology is based on Divine Providence.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Had a thread called "Is Astrology a Religion?"
It at least APPEARS that Traditionalistic astrology is based on a religious precept. Modernistic is more about chance, and how one spontaneously reacts to outside circumstances.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
No one's brought up the K-word. Seems appropriate though.
Modernistic, karmic astrology is based on the idea of improving one's Karma by well-chosen acts in the context of uncontrollable circumstances.
But, Divine Providence would make that impossible.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
petosiris said:
Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part I - Zodiac​

The zodiac completes a sidereal cycle in 23.93446 hours.


The image of the Maiden is feminine, nocturnal, double-bodied, human, winged,
common, eloquent, infertile, incomplete, handsome, standing and of the south wind.
It indicates exchanges, affairs, eloquence, trade and mysticism.
Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Virgo
are large, well-proportioned and graceful, articulate, meticulous, popular, mystical, temperate,
with fine face, fine straight body, round beautiful bright eyes, drawn nostrils, fine lips
because the Maiden is charming in conversation, exchanging, thick chin, bright hair, useful, industrious,
pure, modest, well-educated, lovers of learning, always ready to do everything when provoked,
writers, physicians, business expediters, administrators of goods, stewards, secretaries, accountants, workers in fields,
actors, astrologers, spendthrifts in youth,
but who become prosperous over the course of time.
Domicile and exaltation of Mercury, depression of Venus, it controls the abdomen,
the vestibular system, the gustatory system and the auditory system.
It is equinoctial, like-empowered with Pisces, like-ascending with Leo
and like-engirding with Gemini, tall in the Northern Hemisphere and short in the Southern Hemisphere.
It is autumnal, cold and dry for the north, and vernal, hot and moist for the south.
Virgo controls Babylonia, Mesopotamia, Assyria, Hellas, Achaia and Crete.
The head and the shoulders are rising up to the 7th degree,
the hands, the abdomen and the wings up to the 17th,
the lower parts up to the 21st, the robe up to the 28th,
the feet and Spica up to the 30th.

The first 7° belong to Mercury - teachers, philosophers, mathematicians
The next 10° belong to Venus - cheerful, freedom from oppression and care
The next 4° belong to Jupiter - notable and with friendships
The next 7° belong to Mars - brilliant, some belong to the military or tribunals
The final 2° belong to Saturn - ups and downs, notable, risks
Head and Zavijava - Mercury and moderately Mars
Southern Wing and Girdles - Mercury and moderately Venus
Vindemiatrix - Saturn and Mercury
Feet - Mercury and moderately Mars
Spica - Venus and moderately Mars

Such, then, are the observations of the effects of the stars
as made by our predecessors.

Bibliography:
 Ludwich, A. (Ed.). (1877). Maximi et Ammonis carminum De actionum auspiciis reliquiae:
accedunt Anecdota astrologica. BG Teubneri.
Retrieved from https://archive.org/details/maximietammonisc00ludw/page/n3
Manilius, & Goold, G. P. (1985). Astronomica. BG Teubner.
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos.
William Heinmann, London.
Retrieved from http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/home.html
Schmidt, R. The Astrological Record of the Early Greek Sages.
Project Hindsight.
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley.
Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf
Click to expand...


Assuming local skies are clear

then
by visual observation at night
and using ALDEBARAN 15


MOON TODAY is visibly observed in local skies worldwide :smile:
in CONSTELLATION of VIRGO


VIRGO is the domicile aka home of STILBON

MOON HAS INGRESS[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ED [/FONT]
 FIRST DECAN

SIDEREAL VIRGO


tetragon SIDEREAL GEMINI MERCURY


hexagon SIDEREAL CANCER SUN VENUS MARS assembly


hexagon SIDEREAL SCORPIO JUPITER


tetragon SIDEREAL SAGITTARIUS SATURN


FOR VIDEO ANIMATION OF TROPICAL & SIDEREAL PERSPECTIVE
WITH DESCRIPTIVE NARRATIVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-DYgGFjI


Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris
1. The gods send signs to all nations, but they are not interpret the same for the different lands,
for one they signify hot weather, for another they signify cold weather,
and for third they signify temperate weather.

2. In the same way, the like-principles of rising times and daylight
become less discernible and causative in the equatorial zones.

3. Therefore another celestial influence is causative for nativities,
rather than the terrestrial effect of weather.
Otherwise, there would be no domicile, no exaltation
and no depression for the equatorial lands.

4. The rationale of the sidereal zodiac is compatible with this hypothesis,
the rationale of the tropical zodiac is not.



MOON travels each SIGN once a month aka "moonth"
and
IS NOT ALWAYS IN SAME SIGN BOTH TROPICALLY AND SIDEREALLY
because
although Astrologers
– whether Tropical or Sidereal
 – are commenting on and making predictions
regarding THE IDENTICAL MOON in the skies :smile:
computer generated Tropical Chart differs by DEGREE OCCUPIED BY THE MOON
from Sidereal DEGREE OCCUPIED BY MOON
Sidereal location of Moon may be confirmed BY VISUAL observation of local skies

there is a minimum difference of 20° up to a maximum of approximately 24°
between TROPICAL AND SIDEREAL MEASUREMENT
ANY planet at 0° OF any TROPICAL SIGN
 is SIDEREALLY between approximately 6° - 10°
to a maximum 24° of the PREVIOUS SIGN
dependent on the ayanamsha
petosiris said:


Siriusly, you should move 25 degrees backwards, not days.
Another handy method is
that if a planet is less than 25 degrees in the sign,
add 5 degrees to it,
while moving it in the previous sign.
This way you can find any positions in less than couple seconds.
Click to expand...
 
Chrysalis

Chrysalis

Well-known member
Whats with all these mass shootings, first in Texas and now in Ohio, within 24hrs of each other :unsure:

Well Mars is moving through the degrees of Homicide 20-24 degrees Leo.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
clearly despite APPARENT freewill to have posted this comment on the other thread
in REALITY the "freewill" to do so is merely theoretical :smile:
because your comment would have been deleted as "off-topic"
thus illustrating the obvious lack of "freewill" to act
because of the fatedness for comments that are deemed "off-topic" for some threads
but ok on chat threads
david starling said:
Lack of free-will means that nothing is to anyone's credit or blame.
We act the way we HAVE to act.
We're pre-programmed with a default setting.
Click to expand...
our forum allows that comment on chat but not on the fate thread :smile:
david starling said:
It was a pretty loose thread, actually. Most of the OP's own posts, as well as those of at least one other poster, we're totally off-topic, in an attempt to disparage Modernistic astrology and extoll the virtues of Traditionalistic. None of those, or my responses to them, were deleted.
Click to expand...
in fact currently that thread deletes all comments that are "non-astrological"
thus illustrating that the thread is not "a pretty loose thread"
and also illustrating the lack of choice to post comments
since fate "freewill" concept may only be
as you define it:
"loosely" discussed on chat
i.e.
must have "astrological content" on that other thread
or shall be deleted
david starling said:
Traditionalistic astrologer Christopher Warnock's stated attitude is, in so many words, that Fate conquers all, so let us all surrender to Fate. And, that to do otherwise is both futile and egocentric, and leads to unhappiness and dissatisfaction with life.
Click to expand...
david starling said:
Didn't know the attitude towards Fate versus Free-will thread was being more closely monitored, since I've stopped paying any attention to it. I did get one good take-away: "Divine Providence", which is possibly the foundational philosophy upon which Traditionalistic astrology rests.
Click to expand...
david starling said:
"Free-will" doesn't include the precept that one can break all the rules with impunity. Where did anyone get that idea?
Actions have consequences, whether they result from a free-will choice, or are not under our own control.
Click to expand...
david starling said:
The question is, what, exactly is "Free-will" free FROM? We're all constantly subject to circumstances beyond our control, and that makes "Free-will" a reaction to those circumstances, rather than a free agent of independent choices.
Another question is, are the "circumstances beyond one's control" haphazard and possibly subject to some measure of control due to how one chooses to react to them; or, are those circumstances pre-ordained and immutable?
Click to expand...
conspiracy theorist said:
The topic of that thread was broad at the outset, and to explore the implications of the role of free-will and fate one would have to do an investigation on how traditional and modern branches of astrology are constituted, and a comparison of the two astrologies couldn't be out of line since the underlying axioms of each branch also informs such things as the role of fate and free-will. A broader look at what the tradition says and what the modern branches had to offer was inevitable and enriches the discussion, as opposed to trying to limit a discussion which originally wasn't even that streamlined in its beginning (since it was an ad-hoc decision to create a new thread for discussion by a moderator)
Click to expand...
moonkat235 said:
I don't want to detract from the fate vs free will thread with non-astrological posts, but I have a few thoughts that I just wanted to share.

I disagree that I like certainty in my life and therefore believe in fate. I disagree that free will choice-centered modernistic astrology is for people who can live with uncertainty and who enjoy exploring possibilities. I view it more in terms of control. I believe in determinism and acknowledge that I have no control and even what I will has been determined outside of myself. I think people who are very into free will are disturbed by the prospect of lack of control.

Further, life is not any less fated from a sociopolitical standpoint now than it was in 'ancient times'. The concept of social mobility is largely a myth. In times with less technology, it was harder to keep track of people or 'keep an eye on them'. I mean, helloooo NSA.

Google ads are generated based on your search history and cookies on your computer. The constant barrage of media advertisements is a form of brainwashing. There's still racism and classism and sexism and really every ism you can think of. There's gerrymandering and the 1%.

We may have more access to knowledge in some sense, but the type of information we choose to consume vs what information is thrown at us shows a huge discrepancy. We are highly influenced by mundane things we barely notice.

I also think that free will is not clearly evident. Even the things we want in life, the things we find beautiful or attractive are outside of our control. I don't think a little bit of both free will and fate is obvious


.
Click to expand...
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
CELEBRATING THE TURNING OF THE WHEEL OF DHARMA :smile:

Today is Chö Khor Dü Chen
or "Festival of Turning the Wheel of Dharma"
and commemorates the Buddha's first teaching after reaching enlightenment.

Why did Buddha make a big deal of teaching the Four Noble Truths?
It was his first teaching after he became Buddha.
He said if I talk to anyone nobody will understand me. Therefore, I remain silent.
Then the mythological gods like Indra and Brahma
came and gave Buddha the dharma wheel or dharma chakra.
That is why the wheel is an important Buddhist symbol.
Even the teachings of Buddha are referred to as
First Turning of the Dharma Wheel
the Second Turning of the Dharma Wheel
and the Third Turning of the Dharma Wheel.
They are in those categories depending on whether they were made
according to the time or other theoretical points
but more or less it is based on the subject.
~ Gelek Rimpoche, Jewel Heart Ann Arbor, 30 September 2012
https://www.jewelheart.org/guest-resources/
 
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david starling

Well-known member
passiflora said:
I would love to hear more about this concept (having a Saturn-Mercury square)
Currently worried that kind of immunity comes with a huge cost to the organism
How does Mercury win without becoming Saturnine
....
Edit to say, looks as if you may be speaking specifically of the current transit and not in general
Click to expand...

The "in general" informed the current transit. Mercury can alleviate the heaviness of Saturn, and change it from doom and gloom into letting the Sun shine in. That's seen in the ancient alchemical saying, "changing lead (Saturn's metal) into gold (the Sun's metal)".
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Chrysalis said:
Whats with all these mass shootings, first in Texas and now in Ohio, within 24hrs of each other :unsure:

Well Mars is moving through the degrees of Homicide 20-24 degrees Leo.
Click to expand...

Mars was quincunx Pluto, which is a type of disconnect. Pluto helps Mars, just as Mercury helps Pluto. And, this quincunx separation came at the same time as the Mercury/Pluto oppositional disconnect.
 
Chrysalis

Chrysalis

Well-known member
david starling said:
Mars was quincunx Pluto, which is a type of disconnect. Pluto helps Mars, just as Mercury helps Pluto. And, this quincunx separation came at the same time as the Mercury/Pluto oppositional disconnect.
Click to expand...

Well my diurnal chart for yesterday, i had my natal mars/pluto conjunction, conjunct the diurnal MC. I ended up out of the blue telling (now ex) bf something about my past (mars/pluto related) hes not took it so good, and now we are well and truly finished.

Pluto and saturn has ripped me to sheds this year.

He said i shouldnt have told him...but once again, the planets had me like some puppet. There is no "free will" it doesnt exist. Whats meant to be is meant to be.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Chrysalis said:
I dont believe in free will anymore. Whats planned for us will come to us regardless.
Click to expand...

Is there really any way to know? Just thought of a metaphor: Suppose you're swimming in the ocean, making good progress, when a massive tidal flow catches you and forces you in a direction you don't want to go.
The swimming-ability is your free-will, but the irresistible tide, representing fate, can overrule it. If you swim against the strong tide, you become exhausted, and are in danger of drowning. If you just let it carry you, you'll be dashed against the rocks. Best advice, keep swimming, but swim parallel to the tide, not with it or against it.
 
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