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  #1  
Unread 01-14-2011, 06:14 PM
Nereida Nereida is offline
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Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

Hello! I've recently started being interested in astrology and there is are few things (among others) which are pretty confusing to me.

1)First of all, in a natal chart, who is the father? Sun or Saturn?

2)I've read somewhere that a Saturn Rx can represent an unknown father. I've also read that in a woman chart, afflicted Sun means she has/had a difficult relationship with her father and she has the tendency to develop difficult relationship with men, in general.What do you think about that?

3)What about a foster father? where to look for this kind of parent?

4)I' ve also read that in general the 4th house represents the mother and the 10th the father. For a female Mars Rx in the 10th house means her father can be aggressive or means the she can concentrate her aggressiveness towards her father?

I would be really grateful if you would help me

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  #2  
Unread 01-15-2011, 03:38 AM
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Re: Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

Technically you would look at Saturn for a night birth and the sun for a day birth. Probably it makes sense to consider both. Also, don't overlook the MC/IC axis. It gets a bit complicated to delineate, because the father could be one or the other depending upon whether it is a day or night birth, and the individual is a man or a woman. If the father-child relationship is really dysfunctional, I would also look at sun-Pluto contacts.
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  #3  
Unread 01-15-2011, 04:02 PM
eternalautumn
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Re: Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

Look at the ruler of the 4th house for father, and 10th house ruler for mother. Traditionally, the 4th house is both parents, but when you need to look at them separately, the mother goes to the 10th, the seventh house from the 4th.
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  #4  
Unread 01-16-2011, 12:05 AM
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Re: Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
Hello! I've recently started being interested in astrology and there is are few things (among others) which are pretty confusing to me.

1)First of all, in a natal chart, who is the father? Sun or Saturn?

2)I've read somewhere that a Saturn Rx can represent an unknown father. I've also read that in a woman chart, afflicted Sun means she has/had a difficult relationship with her father and she has the tendency to develop difficult relationship with men, in general.What do you think about that?

3)What about a foster father? where to look for this kind of parent?

4)I' ve also read that in general the 4th house represents the mother and the 10th the father. For a female Mars Rx in the 10th house means her father can be aggressive or means the she can concentrate her aggressiveness towards her father?

I would be really grateful if you would help me
Always a good idea to load the natal chart in question. We are all different and will have different play outs of the aspects.
In general the 10th represents the father or the one with career and public life. Sun and Saturn do represent the male figures in our lives.
Foster father can be in the 11th house or more conversely you will be in his 11th house. The 4th house represents the family and domestic situation in general and the Moon is the mother....I dont know about retrogrades. I rather think their energies are just slower and seems to be karmic.
I think any unknown circumstances are Neptune aspects or with the 12th house......I do agree that our SUn aspects and our relationship with the father does impact on general male relationships. But once you are aware of the pitfalls you can manage them. Saturn is really the authority figure whereas the Sun is the guide, teacher, playmate even and protector of children.....there is a difference.

Without your individual chart, cant comment more.
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  #5  
Unread 01-17-2011, 09:56 AM
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Re: Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

Welcome to forum,

We are all visual people and need to see charts please. Remember planets are modified by sign, where they express are houses and how they express are *aspects*

Welcome to the World of Astrology!
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14561

Re: Need some education: Which charts to use when?
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17514

Beginning to Study Astrology
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154469&postcount=10
http://www.soulhealing.com/tutorialwest.htm
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/astrology-glyphs.php

How to attach a chart as thumbnail
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126

what members like to see in a thread – help forum
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25930

at the top of this forum? It has some great explanations, links etc. At the top of every forum there are lots of ‘stickys’ which explain matters in that forum, along with guidelines & tips

There is a 'plethora' of information on AW, espec in the 'stickys' at the top of every forum, our Education forum and Recommendations forum to. Plus we have a good search feature,[but not foolproof obviously, so try here first] bit like google using keywords –initially select advanced and try just selecting 'titles' rather than posts or you'll get too many threads. If this doesn’t get results then try google

What Astrology Can and Can Not Do
http://www.ofspirit.com/susanmiller1.htm
http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/whatastrologycandoforyou.html

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=234549&postcount=7
Perhaps you should read this thread entitled: astrology predicts meanings, not events
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17546&page=2

Quote:
1)First of all, in a natal chart, who is the father? Sun or Saturn?

2)I've read somewhere that a Saturn Rx can represent an unknown father. I've also read that in a woman chart, afflicted Sun means she has/had a difficult relationship with her father and she has the tendency to develop difficult relationship with men, in general.What do you think about that?
(1) could be both (2) Saturn rx can suggest that father was missing, absent or simply didn't provide enough structure, discipline in early formative years. Saturn aspects also suggest how you relate to men, authority figures, not just father....

Basic astrology
Now basically your sun sign is your 'core beliefs, values, ego' and Asc is your physical body, mode of expression and mask and persona that we all wear and hide behind, but definitely not what's going on underneath. What's going on underneath is your Sun sign. Moon sign, house placements and aspects describe your emotional and intuitive responses, also describes your view of your mother, as saturn describes your father by sign and house position.

So, think of a glass milk bottle the bottle is your Asc and your sun the milk, but the milk still has to 'come out' through the glass neck of the milk bottle....

Now aspects within a natal chart represent 'facets' of our personality, because we are all multifaceted beings. What these do is 'break down and compartmentalise' these facets into smaller bite size chunks. This does take quite a lot of self analysis and objectivity to 'see yourself' and why you do certain things and behave in certain ways. Actually it can be quite good therapy...

Remember back to your school days an opposition is 180', square 90', trine 120', and sextile 60' Now challenged aspects are conj (depending on the planets, cos some like each other and some really don't) squares and oppositions. Easy aspects are conj (if the planets get along) eg: Jupiter conj Moon, sextile and trine. Quincunx is inbetween (depending on the planets) causes health strains and unresolved or hard to balance planets/energies.

Retrograde planets
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22923
http://astrology.findyourfate.com/astrology-retrograde.htm
http://www.north-node.com/astrology-tutorials/retrogrades
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/retrogradeplanets.htm
http://www.north-node.com/astrology-tutorials/retrogrades
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5796&postcount=8
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5861&postcount=10
Saturn Retrograde
* feels inside that they're never good enough
* indulgent outward behavior may mask inner feelings of inadequacy
* hides fears

Natal chart aspects
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/sunaspects.html
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/planetsaspectsastrology.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_aspect
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_aspect_e.htm
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/aspectsreference.htm
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/aspectssun.htm
http://astrologynotes.org/wiki/Sun_aspects
http://www.astrologyindepth.com/Special:Prefixindex/category:
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  #6  
Unread 01-17-2011, 07:21 PM
aquarianmoon aquarianmoon is offline
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Re: Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

Each planet and part of the horoscope has multiple layers. I'm sure the Sun and Saturn could each stand for the father. I have the Sun unaspected in the 8th house and I've had a few astrologers describe this as a father who wasn't there - and it's true, I grew up in New Zealand away from my father in the UK.

I also have Saturn conjunct the ascendant, but I don't know how to interpret this re daddy issues.
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  #7  
Unread 01-17-2011, 09:00 PM
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Re: Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn View Post
Look at the ruler of the 4th house for father, and 10th house ruler for mother. Traditionally, the 4th house is both parents, but when you need to look at them separately, the mother goes to the 10th, the seventh house from the 4th.
I dont agree, it is the 4th house for the mother or the nurturer. The 10th house is the authoritarian parent who has a career and a public life an usually the father. THe boss. 4th house is our domestic conditions and hereditary traits. seventh from the fourth is mother's partner. i.e. father or stepfather.
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  #8  
Unread 01-17-2011, 09:05 PM
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Re: Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarianmoon View Post
Each planet and part of the horoscope has multiple layers. I'm sure the Sun and Saturn could each stand for the father. I have the Sun unaspected in the 8th house and I've had a few astrologers describe this as a father who wasn't there - and it's true, I grew up in New Zealand away from my father in the UK.

I also have Saturn conjunct the ascendant, but I don't know how to interpret this re daddy issues.
That is interesting. Sun in the 8th is usually a secret father rather, it could indicate that the father in the UK was not your biological father. In the 8th it is more likely that he actually had passed over. Would have to see the whole chart.
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  #9  
Unread 01-17-2011, 09:30 PM
aquarianmoon aquarianmoon is offline
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Re: Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire19 View Post
That is interesting. Sun in the 8th is usually a secret father rather, it could indicate that the father in the UK was not your biological father. In the 8th it is more likely that he actually had passed over. Would have to see the whole chart.
My chart should be listed in my signature. There is no doubt about him being my biological father (we look similar), but there is a lot of detachment there. It's like there was a big emotional death when I moved away.. I've seen him 4 times in the last 15 years.
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  #10  
Unread 03-10-2011, 09:40 AM
ariana ariana is offline
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Re: Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire19 View Post
I dont agree, it is the 4th house for the mother or the nurturer. The 10th house is the authoritarian parent who has a career and a public life an usually the father. THe boss. 4th house is our domestic conditions and hereditary traits. seventh from the fourth is mother's partner. i.e. father or stepfather.
my mother was the boos in my life, the one who weared the pants in the house. guess i have her sun sign in my Mc, aries, plus i've got the moon there too. and im cancer.
my father, instead was more in his job. somehow my mother took all the attention, while my father was on a second place, but the nurturing emotinal side i've recived from my father, even if just a little bit, was priceless.
i belive house 4 and 10 stands out for whichever the father has that function in the childs life. 4 for a more domestic and nurturing side, and 10 for the most authoritarian and boss parent.
and in my case, Sun will stand out more for the father function. while saturn it recived more of my mother energy (its conjunct mars) and my mother is sun, moon, jupiter and mercury in aries.

Last edited by ariana; 03-10-2011 at 09:42 AM.
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  #11  
Unread 03-10-2011, 09:45 AM
ariana ariana is offline
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Re: Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

here is my chart by the way, so you can see
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  #12  
Unread 03-10-2011, 10:29 AM
annette annette is offline
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Cool Re: Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

I'm so contrary. But believe traditionally the tenth house does represent the mother and the fourth the father. Today it seems the tenth is the nourisher?to me the fourth house would nourish the tenth be public parent.
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Unread 03-10-2011, 10:31 AM
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Re: Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ariana View Post
here is my chart by the way, so you can see
you also have an unaspected uranus
unspected planets
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html
http://www.innerself.com/Astrology/unaspected.htm
http://classiclegendbooks.com/martinschulman-astrology-articles-17-unaspected-planets-1.html
http://astrology.findyourfate.com/astrology-unaspectedplanets.htm
http://www.donmc.com/Unaspected.htm
http://www.astrologyclub.org/articles/unaspected/unaspected.htm
http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/dde3467b-df04-4a45-94c8-7aeb8e91e741


Jupiter and pluto are both singletons.
Singleton planets
“If a planet happens to be the only one in an element, quality, or house type, that planet is a Singleton and it can funnel all of the “energy” of the horoscope. This planet is often the most important one in the horoscope. In other words, if you just interpret the position of this one planet by sign, house, and aspect, you will get to the “heart of the horoscope”. The effect is the same as if that planet were the only one on one side of the chart.”
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/13.0Singletons.htm
http://www.astrologyclub.org
http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/singleton.html
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-2334.html
(There is a book out by Shirley Lyons Meier, "Elemental Voids, More than Meets the Eye", which gives a good discussion of missing elements.) The Inferior Function can be a source of great motivation and creative expression.
http://www.astrologyclub.org/articles/singletons/intro/singleton_intro.htm

Lack of elements http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18077
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/elements.html
http://www.astrology.aryabhatt.com/Astrology_Elements.asp
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/EmptyElement12.1.htm
http://www.astrologyclub.org/article.../inferior2.htm


12th house planets/aspects
http://www.dkfoundation.co.uk/dkfoundation/dkfArtTwelfthHouse.htm
http://www.gotohoroscope.com/houses-in-chart-12th.html
http://www.dkfoundation.co.uk/dkfoun...rmaHouse12.htm
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/inhouses-sun.html#Twelfth

http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_dgtwehouse_e.htm
http://12th.tribe.net/thread/c160721f-6268-42d8-bf31-897977f99188
http://www.astrologyindepth.com/The_12th_house
http://www.myastrologybook.com/Mercury-Venus-in-the-twelfth-house-12th-house.htm
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/venusinhouses.html
http://www.astrologyindepth.com/The_12th_house


Research threads on AW
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3173&highlight=12th+house
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19818&highlight=12th+house
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19818&highlight=12th+house
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18312&highlight=12th+house
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18312&highlight=12th+house
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  #14  
Unread 03-10-2011, 05:04 PM
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Re: Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

In traditional astrology the 4th house represents the father. The rationale here is that the 4th is the house of one's home and ancestry. In most societies during western astrology's development, genealogy was traced through the father. We still find this in the West, where babies take on the surname of the father; and until ca. 1970 married women usually took on the surnames of their husbands.

Then in a derived house system, the 7th is the house of marriage and one's spouse. The 7th house from the 4th is the 10th house: therefore, if the 4th is the father the 10th would be the mother.

I don't think the ancient traditional astrologers admitted that there might be matriarchies.

A good book on houses in the history of astrology is Deborah Houlding, The Houses: Temples of the Sky.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 03-10-2011, 05:45 PM
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Re: Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

Today families are exist in many different ways. Stepparents, single parents, parents of the same gender. I saw a show with one mom and 2 dads all living together(open marriage). It worked for them great.

My 4th house represents my mother and father equally. My 10th house also represents both of them. Most of the parenting was done by mom :disciplinarian, nurturerer, public parent.

My sun and saturn are conjunct in cancer in the 11th....so either way.
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Unread 03-11-2011, 09:54 AM
ariana ariana is offline
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Re: Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

Quote:
Originally Posted by annette View Post
I'm so contrary. But believe traditionally the tenth house does represent the mother and the fourth the father. Today it seems the tenth is the nourisher?to me the fourth house would nourish the tenth be public parent.
thats right. to me the nourisher emotionally, how i percived, was my father, the fourth. instead to me my mother image came as the public one, the boss, the one who got me "out" to the world. actually the image i have of her is a bit "agressive" she is aries, so her behaviour was to much for me. like she was the one pushing me "out" to fight the outer world :-) jeje. instead my father just standed by me, providing me the suport my mother didnt gave me. so the images i have of them are the other side :-)
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Unread 05-20-2019, 11:44 PM
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Meluzina Meluzina is offline
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Re: Sun..Saturn...which one represents the father?

Well, I have read in Hades that boyz have their father in 4th and mother in 10th whereas gals have mother in 4th and father in 10th.
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