This male higher up I can no longer stand - He's been making my life hell

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LostinPhilly

Well-known member
Hi all,

My apologies for posting yet another thread, but I have reached my limit today. I'm usure as to how to proceed. I've had a rough couple of weeks due to the same person.

In short:

This older white director started at our company a few months before I did (I'm a female in my twenties). He's not someone I report to, but I have to work with him. When we initially met, he seemed decent. We had a few chats. He asked me to go out for drinks, I never followed through, no big deal.

He was fine with me (since we don't work in the same location), but always dismissive somehow. He'd never answer my emails. One day, he called me an "amateur" via email. When I called him up on the phone, he made fun of how we prounounce my last name until I told him I wasn't impressed at all.

We didn't speak at all after that incident. When he heard I was visiting his office, he asked me to maybe join for drinks. I didn't pick up on this offer and he didn't ask when I got there. He'd ignore me in the office, shut down convos if I were to intervene, yet if he saw me on the street, he'd make sure I notice him and say Hi back.

One day, I showed up unexpectedly at their office. Everyone greeted me, except him. He hid behind his computer until my own manager call him up to say hi like a kid.

These past three weeks, he's been making my life hell. Ignoring my emails blatantly, escalating directly to my manager for no reason, sending mean emails I response to queries, logging in complaints in my name when he was the one to receive them because he didn't cooperate with the client, dismissing my emails to clients and re-writing the same one after I did send them one, yelling at me via email, dismissing my phone calls.

He's been acting absolutely insane towards me. I understand he's under a lot of stress and so are we all, but he's been highly unreasonable. I'm seriously questionning my future in this company because of him. We are supposed to work together on a daily basis and he's not cooperating. He makes me look bad in front of clients. We had a call this morning, he didn't let me talk at all! The material was mine to explain and I didn't say anything because he took the lead.

I'm tired of this indvidual. He makes me feel incompetent (when I've had many many positive reviews from higher management during my first year) and very little. I'm not sure I can continue working like this. I'm seriously thinking of moving on. I'm just trying to do my job here, nothing more or less.

Can anyone locate where the problem lies and whether it will get better?

Thank you.

astro_2gw_i_can_no_longer_stand_him_hr_73869_37480.png
 
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rafaella

rafaella

Well-known member
I think the problem is that he is probably interested in you, as he asked you more than once to go out and you have ignored or refused so he is annoyed by this and is trying to make your life hell. This is his way of getting back at you. I would go have a serious talk with him to immediately stop his behaviour or you will go to HR and complain.

The chart shows Moon angular, he might be Saturn. However he would make more sense if he was Jupiter, ruler of 10th. You said he is higher up, even though not reporting to him? Moon/Saturn do not aspect, but there was aspect with Jupiter and its combust, also in fall of Moon (you), detriment of Venus (women). So I think he has real negative thinking about you and women. Interestingly, Moon and Venus are conjunct by Antiscion. I wonder if this makes you quite attractive to him (Venus is very well dignified) even though he dislikes you.... weird. I guess it confirms that he find you attractive but there is also a part that perhaps has negative emotions in him.

When in fall of someone, its opposite to exalting someone. Looking down on you and women. Jupiter combust also indicates his behaviour is hidden, he acts differently with others but his true colours are hidden by the rays of the Sun. You are in his powers so to speak, Moon in sign of Pisces, ruler by Jupiter (him). The combustion will not last, and Jupiter will be exposed. But you may need to act. Moon trines Mercury, a quite conversation perhaps? I am not sure what Mercury indicates here, but it could mean some communication/letter about this which is mute, so not something that everyone should be talking about but more private perhaps.

Moon is angular, so you do have power and ability to act.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
I'm sorry you've had to put up with this kind of immature behaviour. I'm not getting a completely clear read on the chart, but I'll give it my best shot.

I don't normally use the modern outers, but here I think they make sense.

OK, so you're symbolized by the moon, he's Mr. Saturn.

(1.) His offers to meet for drinks may have seemed casual to you, but I think he took your declines as personal rejections. Not only that, but (2) with you (the moon) angular conjunct the MC, and in-sect, he sees you as in a strong position despite some weaknesses (Neptune, Chiron), and given your age and experience differences, he's crabby enough to want to show you his displeasure. Basically he probably sees you as in tight with your supervisor (MC, 10th house) while he's festering in the weak 6th house of work. Let's call this basic envy.

I think he's into domination (Pluto) as a means of gaining a sense of control. Possibly he's hoping you will leave, as his form of punishmen and so that he can feel more in control.

The moon applies to a square with Saturn, but before that happens, it hits a trine with Mercury. Is there some format for communication that would help? I don't know how big your office is, but a large company would probably have a HR department that could help arrange some kind of low-key mediation. (Hint, if this is a possible route, don't go in without a trusted colleague to back you up, so that he can't just bully you.) There is also talking to your boss in a low-key, supportive way. Here, it's important not to come across as the emotional (moon) young female, but as a totally appropriate and reasonable professional who wants what's best for the team. You're not trying to burden your boss with an inter-personal tiff to sort out, but to ensure smooth running of the office.

Keep a paper trail on Mr. Saturn -- save nasty emails, write memoranda of what happened, recording dates and times. These should come in handy if the situation should escalate. Email wars are seldom productive, but you might convert a memorandum of a day's or week's troublesome events into an email, in which you calmly state what happened, and ask him to work with you towards a resolution. (Otherwise, you might get asked by a higher-up whether you ever informed Mr. Saturn that his actions made you uncomfortable.)

Obviously if you can speak non-threateningly to Mr. Saturn, you might just pull it off. As in something like, "I see you're unhappy with my work. Is this something we can discuss? What are the areas where you think I can improve? What would you suggest?" Again, keep a paper trail.

I twice encountered a comparable situation in my work. Once I did leave, but only because I had a new job in hand. The second time, I asked this man to join me in a voluntary, mediated discussion via our HR department. At first he agreed, then backed out. However, his behaviour markedly improved, after I politely but essentially called him on his act.

Good luck with this LostinPhilly. You shouldn't have to put up with this kind of cr**, but sadly, many employees do.
 
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LostinPhilly

Well-known member
rafaella said:
I think the problem is that he is probably interested in you, as he asked you more than once to go out and you have ignored or refused so he is annoyed by this and is trying to make your life hell. This is his way of getting back at you. I would go have a serious talk with him to immediately stop his behaviour or you will go to HR and complain.

The chart shows Moon angular, he might be Saturn. However he would make more sense if he was Jupiter, ruler of 10th. You said he is higher up, even though not reporting to him? Moon/Saturn do not aspect, but there was aspect with Jupiter and its combust, also in fall of Moon (you), detriment of Venus (women). So I think he has real negative thinking about you and women. Interestingly, Moon and Venus are conjunct by Antiscion. I wonder if this makes you quite attractive to him (Venus is very well dignified) even though he dislikes you.... weird. I guess it confirms that he find you attractive but there is also a part that perhaps has negative emotions in him.

When in fall of someone, its opposite to exalting someone. Looking down on you and women. Jupiter combust also indicates his behaviour is hidden, he acts differently with others but his true colours are hidden by the rays of the Sun. You are in his powers so to speak, Moon in sign of Pisces, ruler by Jupiter (him). The combustion will not last, and Jupiter will be exposed. But you may need to act. Moon trines Mercury, a quite conversation perhaps? I am not sure what Mercury indicates here, but it could mean some communication/letter about this which is mute, so not something that everyone should be talking about but more private perhaps.

Moon is angular, so you do have power and ability to act.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much, Rafaella. I really appreciate your help. I have more or less hinted to my two managers that the relationship with his department has become quite tense, but I didn't address him in particular. He's very high up, so reporting him would definitely seal my fate.

He dislikes me? What on earth have I done to him aside from politely declining his offers because I didn't think it was appropriate each time? I've given him no grounds to dislike me, he doesn't even know me since we don't work in the same office at all. I visit often, but that's about it. I've always tried to be cordial to him.

Yes, basically, his is the head of his department and we work on most cases together. I don't report to him.

He got divorced a year ago or so (I overheard him talk about his divorce/ex wife when I was visiting his office), so I can see where the negative perception of women comes from. He got burned. The problem is I see he has no problem interacting with other younger women who work in his office. He's overly confident, type A and quite assertive. It's a different story with me.

A conversation with who? Him? He can't even be bothered to take my calls and asks his assistant to tell me he's unavailable. He doesn't respond to my emails. I'm not entirely sure how else to have a quite conversation with him?
 
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LostinPhilly

Well-known member
waybread said:
I'm sorry you've had to put up with this kind of immature behaviour. I'm not getting a completely clear read on the chart, but I'll give it my best shot.

I don't normally use the modern outers, but here I think they make sense.

OK, so you're symbolized by the moon, he's Mr. Saturn.

(1.) His offers to meet for drinks may have seemed casual to you, but I think he took your declines as personal rejections. Not only that, but (2) with you (the moon) angular conjunct the MC, and in-sect, he sees you as in a strong position despite some weaknesses (Neptune, Chiron), and given your age and experience differences, he's crabby enough to want to show you his displeasure. Basically he probably sees you as in tight with your supervisor (MC, 10th house) while he's festering in the weak 6th house of work. Let's call this basic envy.

I think he's into domination (Pluto) as a means of gaining a sense of control. Possibly he's hoping you will leave, as his form of punishmen and so that he can feel more in control.

The moon applies to a square with Saturn, but before that happens, it hits a trine with Mercury. Is there some format for communication that would help? I don't know how big your office is, but a large company would probably have a HR department that could help arrange some kind of low-key mediation. (Hint, if this is a possible route, don't go in without a trusted colleague to back you up, so that he can't just bully you.) There is also talking to your boss in a low-key, supportive way. Here, it's important not to come across as the emotional (moon) young female, but as a totally appropriate and reasonable professional who wants what's best for the team. You're not trying to burden your boss with an inter-personal tiff to sort out, but to ensure smooth running of the office.

Keep a paper trail on Mr. Saturn -- save nasty emails, write memoranda of what happened, recording dates and times. These should come in handy if the situation should escalate. Email wars are seldom productive, but you might convert a memorandum of a day's or week's troublesome events into an email, in which you calmly state what happened, and ask him to work with you towards a resolution. (Otherwise, you might get asked by a higher-up whether you ever informed Mr. Saturn that his actions made you uncomfortable.)

Obviously if you can speak non-threateningly to Mr. Saturn, you might just pull it off. As in something like, "I see you're unhappy with my work. Is this something we can discuss? What are the areas where you think I can improve? What would you suggest?" Again, keep a paper trail.

I twice encountered a comparable situation in my work. Once I did leave, but only because I had a new job in hand. The second time, I asked this man to join me in a voluntary, mediated discussion via our HR department. At first he agreed, then backed out. However, his behaviour markedly improved, after I politely but essentially called him on his act.

Good luck with this LostinPhilly. You shouldn't have to put up with this kind of cr**, but sadly, many employees do.
Click to expand...

Thank you, waybread. This is much appreciated!

You're right. I assumed his invitations for drinks were just casual. I mean, I didn't think he was even going to read into the fact I declined twice. The first time, it made me uncomfortable because I had just started at the company. The second time, he sent an email to a group inbox, which could have easily been seen by my own manager and it was inappropriate.

Hoping that I leave? What good is it going to do to him? Aside from not having to work with me, it's not going to benefit him. He's unreasonable.

He never replies to my emails! An email won't change the situation since he's just going to press "delete" as he always does. I can't even call him as he asks his assistant to tell me he's unavailable. He denies all means of communication, for one reason or another. He's not even cooperating for the sake of our clients, so you can imagine the gravity of the situation. We ended up with a client escalation due to his unprofessional games.

My manager told me "don't be surprised if he yells at you", meaning he must have spent some time complaining about me. The last thing I want is to come across as this innocent, emotional, young female in such a tough industry. I'm usually composed and strong, so I'm not sure how to approach this without openly telling her it's more personal than it looks.

We don't work in the same office, so a HR resolution is unfortunately not possible. However, since I visit/ work from their office often and he's not even cordial in person, it's evidence he's got something against me. As a matter of fact, he can't even be bothered to say Hi.

I'm trying to do my job and he just seeks to sabotage me it seems as it always results in an issue to fix on my end.
 
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waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Well, obviously he's behaving like a total schmuck. I've tried to suggest some reasons why, but these won't be rational explanations as he seems to be coming from an emotional position of rejection, retaliation, and envy. So please keep a paper trail. If you don't need it later on, fine: you've only wasted some time. If you do need it, it should stand you in good stead. If your direct supervisor is a reasonable person, you might talk to him-- again, with your least emotional, most professional demeanor. You're on the job as a team player and to support the work of your department, but it is becoming increasingly difficult given Mr. Saturn's confrontational behaviour.

BTW, LostinPhilly, you haven't mentioned any ethnic or gender prejudice in your interactions with Mr. Saturn, but should anything like this come up, please make a special note of it, as this would amount to discrimination in the workplace.
 
B

breeze

Well-known member
The problem is that he simply feels rejected. This is why he is signified by a highly dignified-direct and in its own term and face Saturn . And this is why he is building structrures, cold, and so rude.

Saturn is so impressed by Venus i.e. Saturn receives Venus from its exaltation.

Moon is in the triplicity of Sun and in the exaltation of Venus in Pisces. Venus is in the 5th, and Moon is conjucting Venus by antiscion. Venus sextiles Saturn. All these just makes me think that may be subconcouisly, you like flirting with him or you like having attention from him ( his man part, not his personality)

And Moon conjucts Neptune. About what matter wld. you Be delusional or blind to see.

Sun is in the detriment of Venus and in the fall of Moon meaning he is going through a phase of his life where a man can not provide man things for a woman, say like protection, security etc. . I think this might be due to the divorce he went through. But the fact is that Sun is an water sign.

You are asking if it will get better. My take is yes, it will get better. This is when Saturn is done with Venus. So, it seems it will take some 10 units time, 10 weeks or 10 months.

Not an advise- I am sure you do not need one, but just as an expreience from my own life, sometimes, keeping quite with that problematic person, and doing nothing are great help. Once they go through their own ego issues and when you do not feed their ego, they move on. Otherwise, when they see you reacting, they do it more. That is not to say you let him harm you. It is just being "cool".

No worries. You are at the top of the chart. I am sure you will get this thing sorted out very well.

Pls. Keep us informed.

Cheers.
 
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LostinPhilly

Well-known member
Thank you, Breeze. Your input is really helpful.

I have to be honest with myself for a second - I rejected him, not because I was not interested or attracted, but because I felt his invitations were inappropriate given the business nature of our relationship. He's got a management position and a young female going out for drinks with a male higher up can easily convey a not so good image.

In such a male dominated industry, it's quite difficult to be taken seriously as a woman. So, going out for drinks with a higher up (even though I don't report to him) can easily make me lose credibility. Sure, I am attracted, but I can easily put my interest to the side for my own professional sake. I'm not one to mingle at work.
Had we met in different circumstances/worked in non-related departments or companies, I would have gladly gone out with him, but it's not the case.


As far as flirting with him goes .. given his cold behavior, I don't recall a specific instance where I flirted or even gotten close to that. But maybe, subconsciously I did. I don't know. I'm sure he does not even suspect it.

He's erratic and quite frankly, I am now a bit scared of dealing with him because I never know what to expect: no response or a ratty one. At the end of the day, my purpose for contacting him at work is to meet our clients' expectations, not because I feel like talking about the sun. Clients rely our cooperation and he's just not cooperating.

To be fair, I am quite hurt over this situation. I usually gloss over these things, but this time around, I'm a bit hurt because his shed a terrible light on my work, in a really unfair manner. His communication is dysfunctional, scattered and erratic, but it ends up reflecting on me. The unfairness of it all annoys me. He escalated something to my manager back in May, calling me an "amateur" (when he was in the wrong which was later proven) and it didn't bother me much. I was over it the next day. This time around, I just can't get over it.
 
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moonwitch

moonwitch

Active member
Hi LostinPhilly:

An extremely quick look reveals that his sig, Saturn is applying to a trine with Uranus (separations) which is also retrograding to meet Saturn. I haven't checked an ephemeris to see if they meet exactly but it could be that he will be gone at some point.

I'd encourage you to write everything down. Every bit of bad behaviour on his part, every time he messes up his job or off-loads it on you and also keep stats on your completed work.

I may write some more later if I can get the time.

Hope this is helpful.
 
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LostinPhilly

Well-known member
Well, he got transferred to his current office in May of last year. He's part of higher management, so I would find it bizarre if he were to leave. However, I agree he might end up leaving as his child lives in a different country. This might be the reason.

I keep track of everything I was not able to finalize because he dismissed my emails and chasers. It won't take me anywhere I think.

He's probably a nice person outside of work, but his work persona is unbearable. He needs to get off his high horse.

I've chosen not to interact with him, unless absolutely necessary/critical. If I can find a way without having to deal with him, I will do. At this stage, my perception of him has shifted completely.
 
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breeze

Well-known member
Thanks for the feedback LostinPhilly,

These men-women things are so complicated i.e. Mind ( L1 and L2), and attraction issues (sun and venus ), plus feelings ( moon ) are all players.

If you think you shd. Reject him , that is it and venus has to be at the back stage. And it is his issue to over come this rejection.

I apprecaite this is not easy thing to deal with, but you will sort this out.

Cheers
 
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LostinPhilly

Well-known member
Thanks, Breeze. Much appreciated.

I'm going to be very honest, I might not like his work persona, but he seems like a nice person in private. There was a storm a few weeks back and none of my colleagues from his office asked me if I was fine (I'm their only team member overseas) - aside from my manager.

Yet, when I got to work on the day of the storm (Monday), he had actually sent out an email from his home/personal email address at 3 am the night before to ask if all is ok. Granted, he sent it to me and some other guy who started a few weeks prior that he's never met, but I appreciated the gesture.

I do not want to "reject" him per se, because like I said, if we were not closely working together, I would have taken him up on his offers. It is a bit complicated as his behavior at work is really unbearable to the point where it jeopardizes my own work yet I cannot deny the attraction I have towards him. I'm still reeling over the lack of professionalism towards me. This si giving me a headache.
 
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rafaella

rafaella

Well-known member
Maybe if he thought you were in a relationship, he would not be acting this way, then your rejection of him would make sense to him. Maybe put a ring on (one that looks like an engagement ring) so he sees it, see if that changes things. Let people think you are taken, you can always 'break up' when he is no longer working there or when it suits you.

As it stands, your only other options are to either speak with him privately/or involve HR which seems like an issue for you as you may loose the job. Or look for another job.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
The thing is, that even if he doesn't respond to your emails or phone calls, you will have a hard-copy record of your trying to be the consummate professional employee, while he's letting his emotions over-rule his professionalism.

Good luck with this, LostinPhilly. I'm sorry that this has happened.
 
wan

wan

Well-known member
I am not sure why you brought up the fact he was White. Are you a minority yourself? Do you think it could be racial?
 
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LostinPhilly

Well-known member
Oh, yes. I did. My bad!

I'm feeling a bit bad about myself these days. I've become extremely self-conscious about my own work. I get anxiety whenever he or someone he manages sends me an email. I simply no longer feel comfortable working in cooperation with his team.

I know I'm competent, but I feel "stupid" whenever I have to interact with him or his team.

I'm so confused. I didn't even have lunch today because my anxiety is worsening.
 
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