Lilith

Lapis

Well-known member
Kite said:
Lapis - be it far from me to suggest your Lilith should submit to my Lilith :twisted: :)

Kite,

I didn't even know that there were 3 Liliths until you started this thread! I was only aware of 2, and like I said, I hadn't researched about Lilith until you kindly left those great links and info here.

"Transiting Black Moon Lilith is currently at 0 Virgo 45. Anyone else paying attention to Lilith's transits?"

No but........ well now, THIS makes a lot of sense for both you and I doesn't it? My ASC at 0 Pisces 49' and of course 7th exactly the opposite blah blah blah. She's conjuncting my South Node also at 2 Virgo and opposing my N.N. If it weren't for us humans, how would these gods and goddesses manifest into this reality? :wink: I too have experienced intense Lilith-like exchanges and house calls even over this past week! I guess that's the whole point with transits. They act out through some of us more directly, more intensely, probably due to many different things - our natal placements being prime for specific transits and learnings obviously.

I'm cool with my recent Lilith encounters and I hope you can get there too if you haven't already. I've seen this happen so many times where near strangers are suddenly thrown together because of many things beyond my wee conscious understanding, that need to quickly be activated, experienced all the way down deep, and then quickly released because something else is coming and the decks needed to be washed clean first! I've seen us all get manouvered around like little 3 year olds like this, just so someone can play a roll (carry a specific archetypal energy at the time) to trigger the other person AND VISE VERSA! Seen it many times in many ways and it amazes me each time it happens.

So having said all that........how fast does this Gal move anyway? :wink:
 

Kite

Well-known member
So having said all that........how fast does this Gal move anyway?

Lapis - she's moving at about 10 degrees per month so not too long..this particular transit.

Funny thing, from a synchronicity standpont, I noticed transiting Jupiter conjuncting my wife's natal Lilith at the same time. Combining this with transiting Mars opposing my natal Venus and Sun conjunct Chiron, I would have to agree that this particular stew has come along for a reason.

I'm working through my learnings here as are the people involved so hopefully this will turn out to be a time of integration and healing.

Kite
 

Kite

Well-known member
I found this brief article that casts Lilith as the Supernal Midwife. This hits very close to home in that my wife has Lilith conjunct her Sun/Descendent/Saturn with Pluto in Leo in the 4th/5th house (depends on system) in mutual reception to the Sun. Due to sterility, we adopted our beautiful daughter - this after a failed adoption where the child died yet we weren't told until two months later so the birthmother could collect her support payments.

Supernal Midwife

"Thou art he that cut me loose from my mother's womb" [Ps 71:6]
defines God's midwife aspect, cutting the umbilical cord of newborns.
This female emanation is called Nukvah the supernal wetnurse; and like
Gula, Artemis, and other midwife goddesses, it is Her decision whether
or not the mother and/or child survive, so has both a bright face and
dark face. In Kabbalah, the supernal midwife can be either Eve or
Lilith. Lilith works in the Chamber of Exchanges, swapping good souls
for evil, evil souls for good. The power of the supernal midwife to do
harm is not in itself evil, for good invariably comes of Lilith's
mischief.

The supernal midwife is viewed as the cause of wars for thrones,
usurpations, and battles within a royal family to decide heirs.
Hagar's son born before Sarah's; and Leah's children before Rachel's
were exchanges made by the supernal midwife. The order of Jacob and
Esau were switched in Rebekah's womb, so that the violent Esau would
emerge first, and gentle Jacob's descendants would have been subject
forever to the descendants of Esau, except that Esau sold his
birthright to Jacob for a bowl of red pottage (symbolic of blood). The
supernal midwife oversees all acts of exchange, as when Laban
exchanged Leah for Rachel as Isaac's bride, or when Moses turned his
staff into a serpent.

She can also remove wealth from one house to another, one kingdom to
another. When Israel became subject to Assyria, it was due to Israel's
own sin, and God's anger which came as a midwife. It was She that
directed infant Moses into the house of Pharaoh's daughter, removing
him from slavery. It was she that induced Joseph's brothers to sell
him into slavery. Solomon lists four things the earth cannot bear: a
slave when he becomes king, a fool when he is filled with food, an
unloved woman when she gets a husband, and a handmaid when she
succeeds her mistress [Pr 30:21-23]. These appear rather trivial, or
at least devoid of moral meaning, unless one understands them in the
context of the supernal midwife's tinkering with the fate of humanity.

The midwife also represents periods of exile, the "exchange" being
such as when Israelite tribes lived among the Egyptians or Persians or
Babylonians, or when Hebrew men preferred Canaanite and Babylonian
wives, themselves being aspects of the midwife seeking to exchange
Yahweh's worship in favor of the Mother Goddess. The midwife's
Lilith's activities explains how good comes from evil, evil from good,
so that David is descended from Lot's incest with his daughters, and
Jesus is descended from Jezebel and Ahab. All exchanges, no matter how
damaging, are in the end beneficial.
 
A

Anonymous

:? Hi Kite and all others here,

Goca posted this link on January 25th in the
"Natal and Predictive" topic in the
"Lilith and Midheaven" thread --


This web page is put together by
a blogger / photographer / astrologer...
it's very creative and there's even humor....
which is great while
there is so much synchronicity and
Earth changes going on right now...

BTW, this link also
appeared on the other forum's Lilith discussion


C1
...*Balance* is the universal harmony...
 

Arian Maverick

Well-known member
I have recently been captivated by Lilith's seductive charms and would love to see this discussion continue...in my opinion, there is not nearly enough information out there about her role in one's natal chart :?

As soon as I selected Lilith from the additional objects list on Astrodienst and viewed all aspects to her, my chart seemed to explode in front of my eyes. Her placement in my eighth house of Libra feels particularly significant to me, perhaps because these two influences match my own personal image of her--an entrantress who possessed all of the darkness associated with the eigth house coupled with that infamous Libran charm. In addition, she forms a Grand Trine with Jupiter and my Ascendent, and if I am not mistaken, she is the focal point of a Kite configuration! I must check this further...here is my chart including Lilith if anyone is interested:



Aquarian Maverick

P.S. What are the general orb allowances for a Grand Cross? Because I'm not sure if there's one formed between Uranus, Lilith, Moon and Chiron...if so, I suppose it's a very loose configuration.
 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
Hi Everybody,
I saw this thread when browsing and hope this first attempt to reply gets through.

I'm no authority on any Lilith but have been studying the Mean Black Moon Lilith's position in a chart and through transits for almost 7 years.
I don't know whether asteroid Lilith, as a physical body, would compare to the sexy,slutty, seductive woman described in pre- Hebrew and Sumerian myth, or whether True Black Moon Lilith is seen as such, but this in no way agrees with what has been observed regarding the position of Mean BML. It is point , not a body, between Earth and the moon's apogee which, translated, can be FELT inwardly as a point of emptiness, a void, a feeling of non-existence, (self) denial etc. of an active natural trait that is furthest from, or denied expression in daily life because it doesn't conform to 'how things are and should be'. In positive aspects it produces wonderful insights because it seems to be representative of activating the 6th sense, the gut instinct etc. that 'feels right' and a person projects, through its aspect to a planet, in spite of what others think,do, say and feel about them. But in harsh aspects, it's the part that is denied, that we don't like or care to admit to because it refers to something that is considered 'bad'or 'wrong' through the eyes of the company we keep and adhere to. It can then become the 'false image', the 'demon' of bad thoughts and feelings that plague us but that bear no resemblance to the truth.
MEAN BML is the nagging and gnawing you feel inside about something that refuses to go away until you deal with it. Most times it refers to the innocence of 'the inner child', that period prior to puberty, that you prefer NOT to be reminded of and include as part of your life.
Its association with manifested illness is becoming too general to be discarded and ignored, but what can you expect when people allow things to rot their inside? !!!!

If anyone would care to share their views on what they consider their MEAN BML means to them, I'd be very grateful as it will help my research.
Many thanks.

F.
 

C1

Well-known member
:| Frisiangal,
Thank you for this invitation! For me, MEAN BML
showed herself to be much as you
described, a powerful force in a very personal way.

Her glyph of a half-moon above the cross of spirit may have
the meaning of a gesture-- is it "come forward" :?:
---or maybe is it "proceed with courage" :!:
perhaps?

Then, before I learned more about this powerful non-planet-point-
in-space, I learned to differentiate her from two other, distinct
Lilith apparitions, osc. Lilith (h13 on Astrodienst, known as "True BLM")
and
the asteroid Lilith (1181).
Here's a link to that discussion on another astrology forum:
http://erosastrology.proboards26.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1130181003&page=2

BLM was shown to me on my chart more than
ten years ago, but I did not get to know her better then
and remained ignorant of her importance until now.

Natally, MEAN BLM is at 2 Aries 12, 3rd house;
she sextiles natal Jupiter at 1 Aqua 59, 2nd house
and another powerhouse in my chart, Uranus,
is within a few degrees orb of square.

Uranus is close to Asbolus at 1 Cancer 7 in the 7th house
(Uranus is midpoint of a powerful Sun / Venus square Moon / Pluto
in my 5th--8th houses....Uranus is 28 Gemini 7 and is in my 7th house.....
opposite my natal Vesta Rx conjuncting Pluto now and the GC......
much energy is being released through Uranus).

Here's my chart one week ago:

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?...679&lang=e&gm=a1&ast=h13,1221,1181,8405,90377

I was invited to pay $75 to go to my friend's acupuncture school
where she is a 3rd year student and have an initial interview and
needling. I said "yes" because I had been dealing with healh shocks:

a friend was diagnosed with Lyme and
her 21 year old niece was also diagnosed with Lyme and
I know others who are suffering with Lyme....
my research into this syndrome/illness recently revealed
the possibility that there was a release of
the spirochete involved in Lyme from a secret army research lab...
my knee suddenly was not working....this is one of the possible indicators
of Lyme disease.....and like that.... :(

so last week I walked into the acupuncture school and my
friend the student said "The administrator asked me for permission
to videotape the session." My friend said that since she had a cold
and did not feel up to it, she'd told them "no" and they really, really
wanted her to do it....So I said to her, "Good -- you are in touch with your
body and your 'gut feelings,' so do as you wish!"

There was suddenly a knock on the door to the examining room
and the director leaned in and
asked my friend to come speak with him for a minute....when she
returned she said, "Here's an offer for you: they would like you to
consent to be interviewed by the director and that will give me a break
and I'll be off the hook -- but they would like you to be sitting in front of
all of us students....and if you agree, there will be no fee!" So, I agreed.

The questions proceeded, and I was talking about my health as a child,
recurring sinus infections, and then when he asked
about my life as a child at home I started to cry and talked about the
day my father died.

The director of the school was very kind and very
professional, he asked me a few questions more and then
I went to a small room and received acupuncture
to balance the 5 energies,
and then I returned to the classroom, feeling
wonderfully re-adjusted
and balanced, and the students smiled at me and
everyone thanked
me and I came home.

This past week, since that event, I experienced decreasing health
and a serious cold/infection, and was very weak and concerned
because I cannot work with my clients who are immune-suppressed
if I am communicable, and finally as I lay in bed Thursday for the whole
day, drinking only one glass of hot tea with lemon and honey my friend
brought in to me....I really wanted to let go of recurring sinus infections.

Early Friday I had a dream: a Korean woman came to me
in the house I was temporrily staying in with her and her partner
and a child (they were not seen....they were great spirits!)
and the woman said to me "I, too, know 5 element acupuncture,
and your heart is weak!"

I awoke and dragged myself back to the acupuncture
school for the second scheduled session.

My knee was cured I told my friend the student! Could it be acupuncture,
or the rhuta grav. homeopathic remedy I'd taken that week, or the
hours of rest? Or combination?

And, I said that the cold was very discouraging and
difficult for me to tolerate and work through.....it was
debilitating, depressing, disgusting, and I was missing out on life....and
so then she needled me, her work was supervised by the director of the school, and she
moxa-ed me and my sinuses cleared enough for me to get home
and back to bed for 24 hours.....

now I see the kite :idea:

transiting Lilith
at 2 Virgo 50 is 150 degrees from natal Jupiter and
natal Lilith....
transiting MEAN BLM is not far from the star Regulus
conjunct my natal saturn at 29 Leo in my 8th
house (with approaching Saturn return by 2007!!)

Back to MEAN BLM: I remember this time of year is always making me cry.....

and soon the transiting lunar node *and* the sun *and* transiting Eros
will conjunct my natal Lilith....

....just in time to give me courage and open my heart more for
remaining balanced with all that is happening!
C1
 

Lunar Pisces

Well-known member
Sita: the male-only priesthood of the Catholic Church isn't a dogma. Dogmas are specifically teachings that Catholics must assent to to be in full communion with the Church, and pertain only to salvation and our relationship with Christ and his Church, not how the Church is structured. I am a (very liberal and female) Catholic theolgian and I was studying under other some prominent theologians (Catholic and Orthodox) when John Paul II made his statement on women in the priesthood. While it was assumed by many to be a dogmatic statement ont he pope's part, it was not and could not, for hte above reasons. Instead, it is simply "defintiive teaching" - a teaching that the Church believes is unchangeable because it conforms to Christ's example, but dissention from this teaching does not jeopardize one's membership in the Church or their salvation.

If your father violently attacked you over this, honestly, it probably was about something much deeper psychologically and far more troubling than his objection ot your religious dissention. Religion often makes for an easy facade and rationalization for deeper, darker problems that people try to hide. Hence why religion has been so badly abused throughout history.

As for Lilith:

I find Lilith very interesting. In my chart I have Pluto rising at 27 Virgo in the 1st, conj both asteriod Lilth (29 Virgo) and BM Lilith (1 Libra). Also in my 1st house in my Uranus singleton at 9 Libra.

I consider myself a very "Lilithian" woman. I look the part: I have a naturally fierce and independant appearence with intense Plutonian eyes and wild, impossible-to-tame dark, wavy hair that flows out like a mane when it's long. I can be imposing, intimidating and scare the holy **** out of men (and many women too). I manifest both the positive and negative Lilith traits: I'm very much in control of my sexuality, and very comfortable with it. Even though I have a very intense sexuality, I am not sexually active, something I have chosen so I can pursue other things in my life. I don't want children, yet men seem to want to get me pregnant (a very serious issue with past relationships).

Men are often easily alienated by me, and seem to think either I'm too bold and bitchy, or that I need to be "tamed" or "domesticed". I have no desire to be married or attached to a man, unless there is a deep, mutual respect of each other's individuality and independence. I'm not a conventional woman by any stretch, and I've defintely have a goddess complex going on on a deeper level - as I'm fond of saying, "I'm not girlfriend or wife material - I'm more goddess material." Seriously, on most days I sincerely wish I could just start iting people left and right (that would be Lilith's vengeful streak making an appearence).

I've also had several experiences in my life where I've been "exiled" or otherwise harshly reprimanded beyond reason or clearly without compassion or understanding, often because the "community" found me threatening. I frequently have to deal with people who try to cut me down because they resent my inherent power and intelligence. I have sometimes found myself socially isolated as the results of other's suspicion, mistrust or rejection of me. However, when I am not rejected, I often find "soul mates," people I can form deep, meaningful and edifying relationships. These tend ot be very powerful relationships that emphasize encouraging and supporting each other's independence, self-possesion and intellectual development.
 

C1

Well-known member
:eek: Sita,

I recall that posting of yours.
It's terrible what your father did to you.

Dominating other beings,
like what's done by some abusive Catholics and Christian right-wing
hypocrites and women-abusing Islamic fundamentalists....

these men (primarily) are sitting on both sides of the same coin.
Was it Nahwal al-Sadawi
the Egyptian doctor and writer and feminist who resisted and
was jailed who said:
"They have their money in the same Swiss bank accounts."

We are exploring true (non-fundamentalist) Spirit in our life!

Strong Sita, I'm appreciating all your posts, including today's
about the birth of 2 planets (thanking all who were involved)

and that one about the storm on Saturn just being our
Saturn returns....:lol:

(I had posted that photo as "guest" -- I just could not
get it together that day!)

Thanks, Sita!

Aquarian Mav,

I have recently been captivated by Lilith's seductive charms and would love to see this discussion continue...in my opinion, there is not nearly enough information out there about her role in one's natal chart

As soon as I selected Lilith from the additional objects list on Astrodienst and viewed all aspects to her, my chart seemed to explode in front of my eyes. Her placement in my eighth house of Libra feels particularly significant to me, perhaps because these two influences match my own personal image of her--an entrantress who possessed all of the darkness associated with the eigth house coupled with that infamous Libran charm.

Yes, I see that!
Uranus, Neptune, ASC, Moon, Jupiter Chiron...and a grand cross!

What does Lilith feel like for you anyway?

Can you tell yet?

C1
 

Arian Maverick

Well-known member
Yes, I see that!
Uranus, Neptune, ASC, Moon, Jupiter Chiron...and a grand cross!

What does Lilith feel like for you anyway?

Can you tell yet?

It is difficult for me to know with any measure of certainty how I have been affected by Lilith's energies, as I have not yet approached my seventeenth birthday and thus do not truly consider myself among the ranks of fully mature, adult women. However, I am well past the awkward stages of puberty and keenly aware of my body and my sexuality, and lately I believe that I have been experiencing Lilith in a very personal way.

For many years now, I have been very self-conscious and uncomfortable with my thin yet undeniably womanly figure. Throughout middle school, I attempted to hide myself inside baggy clothes, and even after I discovered the delights of fashion and started to wear more current and form-fitting styles, I simply could not shake off that feeling of shame and embarrassment whenever I viewed my reflection in my bedroom mirror. I desperately wished my curves would disappear and fiercely envied those whose bodies most closely matched society's projected image of the "ideal" body type.

Ah, but something changed! I am not exactly sure how or when the transformation took place, but I believe I began to have more respect for my body as I discovered what it was capable of doing--to carry and give birth to life. It is interesting that this board has been reactivated so to speak at this time, because for the last couple of nights I have fallen asleep whilst contemplating the innate power I believe all women possess as the mothers of all humanity...we are indomitable beings, naturally in tune with nature's rhythms and cycles, and capable of simultaneously fulfilling many roles--wife, mother, daughter, healer, warrior, protector, etc. Our love knows no limits, yet neither does our wrath; although many of us may try may to suppress our inner Lilith, she will forever be intertwined with our very being. The moon and Lilith--two sides of the same coin, seemingly a universe apart, yet in essence the same. What a wonderful gift!

Aquarian Maverick
 

Kite

Well-known member
Last night I was looking at my recently deceased Mother's chart and noticed her Lilith is at 6 degrees Cancer. I have a t-square formed by Mars conjunct Moon in Aries in 2 squaring Merc in Cap in 11 and opposing Jupiter in late Vir in 8. My Mother's Lilith completes the t-square into a Grand Cross with her Lilith sitting in my 5th house of self-expression.

I can tell you there is nothing like a mothering you get from Lilith in Cancer. I always remembered her being hysterical when I was young. I was told that I didn't start talking until 3 and also around that time I disappeared - they called the police and eventually found me cowering in the cabinet under the kitchen sink. I've just begun to realize that Neptune on my second house might have something to do with hiding out with the Mars/Moon conjunction intercepted in there. This evenutally developed into a fight or flight pattern but there are many ways to "hide out".

Other interesting aspects between the two of us include my Lilith conjuncting her Saturn, her Saturn conjuncting my Ascendant and my Saturn conjuncting her Moon and Mercury. You might say we had quite a confrontation of mirroring each other's characteristics and projection that could kill a horse.

I recently had a dream saying goodbye to her as she died suddenly this past summer. I held her very close and told her that if only we learned to forgive each other no matter what, then it was worth living this life. Then she peacefully left.

Kite
 

Light

Well-known member
Kite, you have my condolences. Sorry.

Quick technical interruption? Which lilith am I looking for? What does the squiggle look like? (I have real trouble with the glyphs - they all seem to change and look the same - Eg I cannot tell Jup and Sat apart - never mind the less well known ones! (Don't worry too much about that - I mirror write when under stress :oops: , it's part of that! )) :oops:

squigglless

hel
 

C1

Well-known member
Claro, Aqua Mav...well said.
Thanks for helping bring in the consciousness...



Kite,
Your sharing is deep and high and grounded.
Often there are no words for my gratitude to you.
Thank you, Kite, from my heart to yours....
I'm realizing
all *time* is contained in an expanding structure,
that's opening, turning into a new structure....consciously.
I'm amazed by your spirit and Self-
communication (if I may be so bold....your communication with
higher Self....) through the forum.



I am so amazed by the wisdom of you indigos...

C1
 

Kite

Well-known member
AM and Hel141 - thanks for your condolences.

C1 - thanks for your kind words also. Geez I don't feel very high or grounded sometimes. I think I pretty much chose a life path that would force me to find a spiritual path or else. Seemed pretty do or die from my perspective so it's nice that I seem to be able to express myself in this area. I'm grateful for that and so far am enjoying my Chiron return 8) .

Kite
 

C1

Well-known member
Kite,
Yeah,
I've felt like that, too, most
of my life....

but, hey, happy new moon!
(BTW, thanks, Lapis, once again, for showing up
with the goods....today it was your post about
this refreshing new moon...I really needed that!)

Waves of communicators
*are* harmonizing here, and that's good...
whether or not any one of us ever felt
particularly
"harmonic" or "grounded" in our
"previous" lives -- (i.e. prior to this moment!)

Hmm...I wish to take back the indigo label, too....I'm
in agreement with Sita (on another thread):

FReeeeeeeeeee
:lol:

So, who will be the next planet/asteroid/
point in space to take center stage and "act" through
the astrologers here within
our forum during this Pluto/GC moment
I wonder :|

C1
8)
 

Missa

Well-known member
I have Lilith in Taurus conjunct my Midheaven and North node but I'm not sure what it means. :? It looks like I also have Pholus conjunct my North node (I guess it depends of the orb you use), but I haven't been able to find any interpretation for this. Help? I'm curious because North node is supposed to be the course we have to take in this life, our karma, etc. How would Lilith (and Pholus?) affect on it?
 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
:D Whoops...forgot one last thing for Hel. The glyph for Black Moon Lilith.

It depends upon which astro. programme you have. Mine gives a final quarter black moon. I think it's Astro. Com that puts the waxing crescent moon above the cross of matter. Don't know what others use.
But THE glyph (and the one I use when doing hand-drawn charts) is the black waning crescent Moon sitting on the cross of matter with her 'point' in free air for all to see !!! Great symbolism, especially when you see it as the inverted glyph of Saturn, cross of matter above joined obedient moon. :D

Glyph for Jupiter is like an old fashioned elegantly written number four; the moon above, yet linked to the cross of matter.

Symbolically, I think the glyphs with O, ) and + = spirit, soul, and matter (body) say more than the old-fashioned ones, especially for Uranus and Pluto. (It's so long ago, I can't even remember at this moment what the old glyphs for Saturn and Pluto were :lol: )

F.
 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
I have no idea what has happened but the L-O-N-G reply I posted with Lilith comments has disappeared as soon as I added the glyphs comment :cry:
Can anyone see it?

F
 

C1

Well-known member
:( Frisi,
Tech comment: moving between open windows while
drafting a reply may cause reply to disappear....hope
your long message can be retrieved (....!!!gosh, Lilith!....could ya be good, here!?) :x
:p

Please do not be too frustrated, Frisi===you're studying
Lilith, who has some information to share IMHO through u.

C1
 
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