Does Neptune in 6th....

Kitchy

Kitchy

Banned
a) make for animal hoarders/rescuers?
b) make for unrealistic pet choices?
c) create illusions of pet ownership?

I am always fascinated by the stories of people who have taken on so many animals - out of goodness in their heart - yet become overwhelmed by them and neglect follows in often horrific ways.

I haven't known a pet hoarder personally - but I have known several people over life who became to so 'enthralled' with the idea of having a certain type of pet, or rescuing it, and then realized that it wasn't the right choice but they could not bring it upon themselves to find homes for them - out of guilt or shame or whatever. A few of the pets were put down or died without medical care.

The folks I'm thinking about, of my Neptune Scorpio generation, 2 of them, I know their charts, had Neptune in 6th house - Gemini Asc.

Not to say that all Gemini Asc or 6th house Neptune is to the extreme, but I am very interested in knowing what gone wrong in the 6th house could create this type of behavior/approach with animals.

Any thoughts?
 
M

muchacho

Well-known member
I would consider hoarding a typical Pluto issue, not a typical Neptune issue. Overwhelmed rescuer would fit the bill though.
 
Kitchy

Kitchy

Banned
yep - hoarding, per se, is plutonic, agreed. i used the term 'animal hoarder' since that's what the authorities call them - the ones whose homes get over-run by their animals.

it would be interesting to see charts of these folks.
 
J

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
I agree with the others that when I think of compulsive behavior, I think of Plutonic energy. Since most Americans when polled state that pets are part of the family, I also look at the 5h for pet information.

However, that said, I think Neptune in the 6h may make some sense with pet hoarding.

Neptune can mean addictions, and martyr/victim/rescuer energy. The 6th house is the house of service, with Neptune there, could mean no boundaries, no separation between self and others, as well as fantasy development.

Compulsions are ritualistic behavior with no rational motivation. Compulsive behavior temporarily reduces anxiety. The behavior does not typically produce a pleasure response.

Addictions, similar to compulsions, can also reduce anxiety. But the hallmark is the production of a pleasure response that becomes addictive, and a totally override of the fact the addictive behavior is destructive and harmful.

So in the charts you reference, the hoarding behavior has more of an addictive quality rather than a compulsive one. If valid, it would change the treatment strategy for pet hoarders. Very interesting.
 
ashriia

ashriia

Well-known member
I think that is, as muchacho already mentioned, a Pluto issue. - hoarding that is with neptune there.

I'm a gem asc, neptune is in my 6th in sag. While I definitely have a love for animals, cats in particular and other little fur babies. I've never been a hoarder.

I can certainly understand wanting to rescue as many animals as possible though. I feel that all the time, especially with cats. I love a home with kitties. I only have one, who is very well taken care of. I plan to get more animals when I put down roots in a new location. But not a crazy amount that I know I wouldn't be able to provide for.
 
ashriia

ashriia

Well-known member
I want to expand on something Julia brought up.

I have OCD, and hoarding is a form of OCD. But I'm the obsessively clean germaphobe who needs things in order that most are used to when it comes to OCD. Which I think it a combo of my Virgo IC, with pluto in the 4th and neptune in the 6th. I guess if pluto in the 4th is taken out of the equation and your left with the anxiety of virgo IC and neptune in the 6th the likelihood of compulsive collecting to reduce anxiety would be more likely. Just a thought.
 
Kitchy

Kitchy

Banned
I remember watching a news report, years ago - about a lady in Oregon who had something like 100 cats running around her home and property.

Her home environment was deplorable. Feces, urine, piles of cat hair covering the stained furniture. Most of the cats were emaciated and many had to be put down by Animal Control.

Part of the news report was how the woman could name every cat that she pointed out. She called them her 'babies' - so that does make sense, about the 5th house, Julia.

Compulsivity vs addiction is a good point, thank you, Julia & Ashriia.

I wonder if we'll come across anyone to this thread who personally knows a pet hoarder? Maybe we could look at the chart(s) if they are able to get them. Who knows, there may even be some astro charts out there of known pet hoarders. I'll get googling.
 
J

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
ashriia said:
I want to expand on something Julia brought up.

I have OCD, and hoarding is a form of OCD. But I'm the obsessively clean germaphobe who needs things in order that most are used to when it comes to OCD. Which I think it a combo of my Virgo IC, with pluto in the 4th and neptune in the 6th. I guess if pluto in the 4th is taken out of the equation and your left with the anxiety of virgo IC and neptune in the 6th the likelihood of compulsive collecting to reduce anxiety would be more likely. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Our discussion coincides with the clinical literature which states there can be a thin line between the compulsive and addictive disorders. Yes Virgo energy can be quite compulsive and germ phobic. I have a Virgo Asc and I get it. :) The karmic story about this is that Virgos have been physicians in past lives, with lots of gore, blood and guts which caused our own illness. In this life, we need to get clean and avoid germs. So it is more phobic in my mind. Yet another diagnostic category. :)
 
J

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
Yes the whole pet hoarding is an odd phenomenon. The goal for the hoarder is to rescue and save the animals, but often times the animals are actually put in harm's way as you describe.

So it is clearly some sort of dysfunctionality.

It would be very interesting to get a larger sample size and see what we find.



Kitchy said:
I remember watching a news report, years ago - about a lady in Oregon who had something like 100 cats running around her home and property.

Her home environment was deplorable. Feces, urine, piles of cat hair covering the stained furniture. Most of the cats were emaciated and many had to be put down by Animal Control.

Part of the news report was how the woman could name every cat that she pointed out. She called them her 'babies' - so that does make sense, about the 5th house, Julia.

Compulsivity vs addiction is a good point, thank you, Julia & Ashriia.

I wonder if we'll come across anyone to this thread who personally knows a pet hoarder? Maybe we could look at the chart(s) if they are able to get them. Who knows, there may even be some astro charts out there of known pet hoarders. I'll get googling.
Click to expand...
 
Kitchy

Kitchy

Banned
I got this from a post on another forum by Alice McDermott. I see that Chart 2 has Neptune in 6th. McDermott posts charts of hoarders, but still interesting though. I'll keep looking for animal hoarders, in particular.

http://noeltyl.com/discussion/index.php?topic=4747.0
 

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sibylline

sibylline

Well-known member
Kitchy said:
a) make for animal hoarders/rescuers?
b) make for unrealistic pet choices?
c) create illusions of pet ownership?
Click to expand...

I have Neptune in the 6th. I think furry pets especially are cute and lovable but I'll never have one again. I had a large breed dog for a couple of years until late last year, and I liked her okay but if I had to do it over again I wouldn't. So perhaps (b) applies. I know others with Neptune in the 6th and none have had anything notable occur in their lives regarding pets, as far as I know.

Kitchy said:
I haven't known a pet hoarder personally - but I have known several people over life who became to so 'enthralled' with the idea of having a certain type of pet, or rescuing it, and then realized that it wasn't the right choice but they could not bring it upon themselves to find homes for them - out of guilt or shame or whatever. A few of the pets were put down or died without medical care.
Click to expand...

Certain people who love animals can shame and ostracize those who they feel are not living up to their ideals of pet ownership. In addition, giving up your pet is considered heartless, cruel, and reflective of the "type" of person someone is, even the type of parent they are or may become. It sounds silly, but I've known more than one pet owner who wasn't so keen on their pet but didn't give them up because of fear of the backlash. The animals weren't mistreated but not treated like family members (which is the "ideal").
 
K

katydid

Well-known member
I have Neptune in the 6th in Libra---but it is conjunct Saturn, and the Sun in early Scorpio---so I am not an animal hoarder. :tongue:

I have had many pets over the years though. At one point we had 2 dogs, 2 cats, 2 giant guinea pigs, 2 kids and a snake named Fred.
 
Kitchy

Kitchy

Banned
I love that the Neptune 6th'ers are chiming in. Probably every one showed up to see "uh,oh, what is Kitchy talking smack about Neptune on, now?" :)

But yeah, I'm really very fascinated by the notion of 'when love goes awry' with pets. Or wondering if it is love or fascination or compassion or as Julia and Ashriia make note - obsession or compulsion or both.

I think, now, I'm feeling kind of stuck on the 5th / 6th for this - but as for animal hoarders - it does seem that 5th house might be more likely house to consider prominent, since the notion of them being 'babies' seems to ring true.

Leads me then to wonder about puppy mill owners and pit bull fighting owners and cockfight owners for 6th - where somehow the presence and usually neglect of the creatures enables the owners daily life to be led - seen as more of a job than love of small animals.

I'm not wanting to take this to a PETA place, so hope we can all work together to ferret out (pun intended) the bizarre collection of many animals which becomes overwhelming and takes over one's life.
 
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J

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
Yes this is quite interesting.

The second chart with the 6h Nep.

The first chart has a Virgo/Pisces AC/DC axis
with Pisces energy sharing the 6 h with Aq energy


Kitchy said:
I got this from a post on another forum by Alice McDermott. I see that Chart 2 has Neptune in 6th. McDermott posts charts of hoarders, but still interesting though. I'll keep looking for animal hoarders, in particular.

http://noeltyl.com/discussion/index.php?topic=4747.0
Click to expand...
 
J

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
Kitchy said:
But yeah, I'm really very fascinated by the notion of 'when love goes awry' with pets. Or wondering if it is love or fascination or compassion or as Julia and Ashriia make note - obsession or compulsion or both.
Click to expand...

Since we are talking 6h, it probably starts off, the intent is to be of service and compassionate. At some point all of it goes off the rails and turns into dysfunctionality.
The Neptune means there are no boundaries, no sense of when helping becomes toxic.
 
M

muchacho

Well-known member
Kitchy said:
yep - hoarding, per se, is plutonic, agreed. i used the term 'animal hoarder' since that's what the authorities call them - the ones whose homes get over-run by their animals.

it would be interesting to see charts of these folks.
Click to expand...
I see. From the vantage point of the authorities where everything is counted and measured, animal hoarder may be the correct term for this phenomenon, but from the vantage point of astrology, in this case, it seems more like a misnomer because the focus is on compassion instead of accumulation of stuff.
 
M

muchacho

Well-known member
katydid said:
I have Neptune in the 6th in Libra---but it is conjunct Saturn, and the Sun in early Scorpio---so I am not an animal hoarder. :tongue:

I have had many pets over the years though. At one point we had 2 dogs, 2 cats, 2 giant guinea pigs, 2 kids and a snake named Fred.
Click to expand...
Since you mention Saturn, here's something I've noticed. Saturn has to do with setting limits and drawing lines, the exact opposite of Neptune. So a rather weak Saturn could have a similar effect like Neptune. I've noticed that when looking at the vedic charts of Bill Clinton and Donald Trump, both have a very weak Saturn. Clinton's Saturn rules his 5th (and 6th), Trump's Saturn rules his 6th (and 7th). Which suggests that Clinton may have trouble drawing a line in love matters and Trump may have trouble drawing a line in hard work matters - which is actually true according to his own words - (or alternatively he could just be another animal hoarder, hehe). Just an observation.
 
M

muchacho

Well-known member
Julia Karmic Astrology said:
Since we are talking 6h, it probably starts off, the intent is to be of service and compassionate. At some point all of it goes off the rails and turns into dysfunctionality.
The Neptune means there are no boundaries, no sense of when helping becomes toxic.
Click to expand...
Exactly right. By focusing almost entirely on the needs of others, the Neptune folks may actually forget their own needs and become needy themselves and then everyone is needy, including the one who is trying to help the needy ones. Which means something is seriously out of balance.
 
Kitchy

Kitchy

Banned
It does appear to me to be a 6th house matter, certainly - daily functionality, hygiene, personal effectiveness in chores, housekeeping, etc.

http://www.aspca.org/animal-cruelty/animal-hoarding/closer-look-animal-hoarding

Signs that may indicate someone is an animal hoarder:


  • They have numerous animals and may not know the total number of animals in their care.
  • Their home is deteriorated (i.e., dirty windows, broken furniture, holes in wall and floor, extreme clutter).
  • There is a strong smell of ammonia, and floors may be covered with dried feces, urine, vomit, etc.
  • Animals are emaciated, lethargic and not well socialized.
  • Fleas and vermin are present.
  • Individual is isolated from community and appears to be in neglect himself.
  • Individual insists all animals are happy and healthy—even when there are clear signs of distress and illness.
 
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