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  #1  
Unread 08-13-2010, 10:12 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Elevated and pitted degrees

I shall post the list of "pitted degrees" (extracted from Ibn Ezra) and also the "elevation degrees" (which enhance benefic influences even in the face of weak dignity and adverse aspects!)

Celestial Topography: Elevated Degrees and Pitted Degrees


-Elevated Degrees, are (or rather, were) also known as "elevations", "peaks", "heights" and "degrees of increasing fortune"; planets in them are saved from detriment, changed from debility to dignity, rescued from affliction; if already strong, dignified, benefic, then their benefic influence is greatly amplified; if malefic, their negative influence is transformed into at least a mild benefic influence

-Pitted Degrees, also known as "pits", "depressions", "holes", "deep degrees" and "degrees of diminishing fortune"; regardless of strength or weakness, dignity or detriment or debility, affliction, benefic or malefic, planets in them are neutralized (at least partially) or "blocked" (usually relative degree of influence or to time of manifestation of influence)

-these elevated or pitted degrees have no orbs (unlike the critical degrees)-the planet must be in the exact degree

-the influence of these degrees extend equally throughout the entire degree: a planet posited at the 59th minute of the degree is influenced by it as much as a planet posited at the 1st minute of the degree

-I have followed Ibn Ezra in the listing of these degrees; this because the Ankara tradition followed these, as well as early Renaissance authors (Agrippa); this list is at variance in several of the degrees with that of Al-Biruni: however, the 2 lists match in the great majority of degrees listed.


......ARIES
+ Elevation: 18

- Pits: 5 - 10 - 16 - 23


......TAURUS
+ Elevations: 2 - 14 - 26 - 29

- Pits: 4 - 11 - 17 - 23 - 24 - 25


......GEMINI
+Elevation: 10

- Pits: 1 - 11 - 16 - 25 - 29


......CANCER
+Elevations: 0 - 1 - 2 - 13 - 14

- Pits: 11 - 16 - 22 - 25 - 29


......LEO
+Elevations: 1 - 4 - 6 - 16

- Pits: 5 - 12 - 14 - 21 - 22 - 27


......VIRGO
+Elevations: 1 - 4 - 16 - 19

- Pits: 7 - 12 - 15 - 20 - 24


......LIBRA
+Elevations: 2 - 4 - 20

- Pits: 0 - 6 - 19 - 29


......SCORPIO
+Elevations: 6 - 11 - 19

- Pits: 8 - 9 - 16 - 21 - 22 - 26


......SAGITTARIUS
+Elevations: 12 - 19

- Pits: 6 - 11 - 14 - 23 - 26 - 29


......CAPRICORN
+Elevations: 12 - 13 - 19

- Pits: 1 - 16 - 21 - 23 - 27


......AQUARIUS
+Elevations: 8 - 15 - 16 - 19

- Pits: 0 - 11 - 21 - 28


......PISCES
+Elevations: 17 - 19

- Pits: 3 - 8 - 23 - 26 - 27


Last edited by dr. farr; 01-26-2014 at 05:37 AM.
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  #2  
Unread 10-22-2010, 11:51 PM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

Are these numbers from tropical or sideral astrology?
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Unread 10-23-2010, 02:16 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

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Originally Posted by Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris View Post
Are these numbers from tropical or sideral astrology?
Tropical.

But if you wanted to convert them, it'd be best to make a table of the tropical degrees and then list the degrees for the ayanamsa you're using (I use Krishnamurti).
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Unread 10-23-2010, 02:35 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

My Uranus is in Leo 4 degrees. Tho that's supposed to be in the sign of its detriment. So because mine is 4 degrees that bails me out somewhat? Cool if that's the case. lol. I know it's in Jupiters bounds/terms.

I see my Saturn in Scorpio 26 degrees is pitted.
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Unread 10-23-2010, 04:58 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

Hardly any (even traditionalist) astrologers (and no Modernists) use the "pits and peaks" of "celestial topography" anymore, but I've found them very valuable in modifying delineations (just like the old-timers such as Ibn Ezra and Al-Biruini did). In Amy's chart, Uranus would be elevated: any detriment would be greatly diminished, and the constructive, positive qualities of Uranus would be amplified. Saturn's would he largely neutralized (in a pit), including its constructive as well as its inhibitive/disruptive influences as well.

The ramifications of natal pitted/elevated degree planets relative to, say, transits, was significant (at least according to the Ankara tradition) Natally pitted planets would be essentially neutral both in their transits and in other planets transits to them (ie, the transit would have little or no significant "effects") Natally elevated planets (as well as natal planets in critical degrees), on the other hand, would have significant "effects"' both in their transits and in transits of other (non-natally pitted planets) to them.
(Question: do I follow these considerations when looking at transits? Yes I do-but then I have these and other rather radicalist ideas relative to transits which I won't go into, because I am not looking to stir up controversy)
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Unread 10-23-2010, 05:52 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
I shall post the list of "pitted degrees" (extracted from Ibn Ezra) and also the "elevation degrees" (which enhance benefic influences even in the face of weak dignity and adverse aspects!)

Celestial Topography: Elevated Degrees and Pitted Degrees

-Pitted Degrees, also known as "pits", "depressions", "holes", "deep degrees" and "degrees of diminishing fortune"; regardless of strength or weakness, dignity or detriment or debility, affliction, benefic or malefic, planets in them are neutralized (either completely or nearly so): they almost "don't count", influence wise, in the given chart

-these elevated or pitted degrees have no orbs (unlike the critical degrees)-the planet must be in the exact degree

-the influence of these degrees extend equally throughout the entire degree: a planet posited at the 59th minute of the degree is influenced by it as much as a planet posited at the 1st minute of the degree


......SAGITTARIUS

- Pits: 6 - 11 - 14 - 23 - 26 - 29


......AQUARIUS

- Pits: 0 - 11 - 21 - 28
Interesting that the chart you mention shows Sagittarius at 11 degrees as a "pit" degree", and that it would have little influence on a person's chart. I have Neptune in Sagittarius in 11 degrees 31 minutes and, given the Pullen delineation, Neptune is my dominant planet by quite a bit.

I also have Sun in 21 degrees 11 minutes Aquarius, yet since the Sun is considered to be in detriment in Aquarius anyways, I'm not surprised by its lack of dominance in my chart.

What I was hoping for, though, out of the chart of elevations and pits, was some more explanation--how do the types of elevations and pits vary by different degrees? I assume they vary by sign. What else can you tell us about this?
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Unread 10-23-2010, 06:16 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

-the pits and peaks are not absolute arbiters of planetary influence: but they are an important gauge of likely planetary influence (or impediment, as the case might be) in delineation of the totality of cosmic factors in a given chart.

-actually I have not found indications of variable effects of pits and peaks as related to sign, in the historical literature, nor in what I learned about this subject from the oral Ankara (Old Turkish) tradition. However, in addition to pits or peaks (or critical degrees which in effect are almost identical with the elevated degree), each degree of the zodiac also has other "properties" connected with it (according to the old-time concepts), such as what we would now call "yin" or "yang" properties ("male/female" degrees), light or dark or mixed qualities of light, and also degree/planetary qualities/connections, known as the "degree monomoiria"-these additional influences play a modifying role, in addition to the pit or peak modifying influences (for those who wish to make a "deeper" evaluation of the less-obvious chart factors)

Last edited by dr. farr; 10-23-2010 at 06:20 AM.
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Unread 10-23-2010, 07:09 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

dr. farr

There is a french book by Janduz illustrating the 360 degrees of the zodiac and mentioning the power and effect of each degree whether honorifique, luminous or empty and consequently planets are affected by them, still there are some degrees that are pitted are put as honorifique in that book could you please give your opinion.Thanks.
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Unread 10-23-2010, 07:22 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

Yes-I think the "honorifique" MIGHT be what we call critical degrees (I could be wrong, however). But what if one has a critical degree which is the same as a pitted degree? Or an honorifique degree also being a pit? The old time doctrine was that when a planet is in a pit which is also a critical degree, the planet "shines forth from its pit", which meant that the planet (because of the critical degree) still has some benefic influence (even though this is limited by the pitted state) I imagine this same doctrine would apply to the honorifique-degree. Just as an illustrative example, say Planet A were in a critical degree (or honorifique degree): its amplfied (benefic) influence would be (say) 100%; now suppose that critical/honorifique degree is also a pitted degree: here Planet A's would be (say) 50%: it still "shines forth" from the pit, but not as strongly as it would have if it were not pitted.

Last edited by dr. farr; 10-23-2010 at 07:30 AM.
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Unread 10-23-2010, 07:29 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

Hi Olivia! Missed you here on AW!
I can go along with that point of view; the near-total "neutralization" of the planetary influence in its pit I think is more pointed in horary, event and decumbiture considerations (possibly in mundane) than in natal analysis. However, I do believe it to be a significant consideration in progressions, SR, and transits.
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Unread 10-23-2010, 07:37 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

I will give an example for more clarification, I have seen the charts of two women both having the Moon on the 15th degree Virgo which is a pitted degree while in the book it is honorifique, one of them is quite well established financially yet with average morals while the other is the contrary to that, I would also like to add that not all the honorifique degrees are identical with the critical degrees we know. Thanks.
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Unread 10-23-2010, 07:59 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

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Originally Posted by Madammaha View Post
I will give an example for more clarification, I have seen the charts of two women both having the Moon on the 15th degree Virgo which is a pitted degree while in the book it is honorifique, one of them is quite well established financially yet with average morals while the other is the contrary to that, I would also like to add that not all the honorifique degrees are identical with the critical degrees we know. Thanks.

Thanks for the information (again, I am not familiar with the honorifique degrees-wish I could read French, so much good information there on astrology and alchemy)

In the above referenced example, the Moon "shines forth from its pit", so will have influence (this is because of the pitted degree also being an honorifique degree) Since it does have influence (because of the honorifique degree), then the aspects the Moon makes to other planets, Parts, etc, would modify the Moon's net ramifications in each woman's specific chart, which would (partially) account for the differences between the way each woman has "turned out" (so far) in their respective lives.

Last edited by dr. farr; 10-23-2010 at 08:01 AM.
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Unread 10-23-2010, 09:36 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

Hi dr. farr

I have two questions

1. Would a moon being in an elevated or pitted degree somewhat change the influence of the moon mansion it is a part of?

2. Are these degrees only important for planets, or do house cusps count as well? (such as Cancer 0 degrees, 5th house cusp).

My Sagittarius moon seems to be elevated at 19 degrees.
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Unread 10-23-2010, 09:39 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

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Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
(Question: do I follow these considerations when looking at transits? Yes I do-but then I have these and other rather radicalist ideas relative to transits which I won't go into, because I am not looking to stir up controversy)
Please do. I love Hegelian Dialectics.
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Unread 10-24-2010, 04:11 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skillcoil View Post
Hi dr. farr

I have two questions

1. Would a moon being in an elevated or pitted degree somewhat change the influence of the moon mansion it is a part of?

2. Are these degrees only important for planets, or do house cusps count as well? (such as Cancer 0 degrees, 5th house cusp).

My Sagittarius moon seems to be elevated at 19 degrees.

In my opinion:
...the natal Moon being elevated or pitted would increase (if elevated) or diminish (if pitted) the influence of all Lunar influences upon that individual, including the "intensity" of influence of the Lunar Mansions upon that individual.
... If the Moon is in an elevated degree, the generic (mundane) influence of that Mansion is increased; if in a pitted degree, the generic (mundane) influence of that Mansion is diminished (this is from the Ankara tradition)

Question 2: pits and peaks apply (as I understand it) only to planets and Parts/Lots; they do not apply to stars acting through cusps/angles, nor to house cusps/angles (azimene degrees apply to both planets and cusps/angles; also the very ancient Manilius "partes damnande" applied to the cusps and angles, not to the planets-but these subjects of azimene degrees and partes damnande are advanced and rather abstruse specialty matters)

Last edited by dr. farr; 10-24-2010 at 04:19 AM.
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Unread 10-24-2010, 04:18 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

In several of the above postings, mention has been made of pitted degrees also being critical degrees. There are 5 instances of this happening (out of a total of 61 pitted degrees). When a planet is in a pitted degree which is also a critical degree, it "shines forth from its pit", meaning that the planet does have some infuence-benefic in nature-but not as much as it would have had if the critical degree was not also a pitted one.

LIST OF PITTED DEGREES WHICH ARE ALSO CRITICAL DEGREES:

+LEO: 21st degree

+SCORPIO: 9th degree and 21st degree

+LIBRA: 0 degree

+AQUARIUS: 21st degree

Last edited by dr. farr; 11-03-2010 at 04:21 AM.
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Unread 10-24-2010, 04:27 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

Trying to figure this out......I suppose then that in my case it's my fixed signs Uranus in Leo and Pluto in Leo that give me my stick to it'veness? Perhaps all my earth signs but that can't be the case because they're all in the mutable sign of Virgo.

I've been told many times that I can be tenacious when I have my mind set on something.

In my divorce after 25 years of marriage....I kept trying and trying and trying. Should've divorced in 96 but hung in til 2004. Again, I guess that's my fixed Leo but that is 6th house.

My last relationship ended strangely over a year ago and I still have difficulty giving up on it. Perhaps that's putting my Venus as rising and 7th house from venus being Capricorn....but then that would lead back to my Saturn?

Oh and my youngest daughter also has Saturn pitted in Scorpio 26 degrees tho hers is in her 4th house (placidius or whole house) while mine is in my 8th Placidius or 9th whole house.

Obviously I have s'more figuring out to do with this. lol. Right now my mind is absorbing. Hopefully I'll figure it out and have practical application.

Last edited by Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris; 10-24-2010 at 04:29 AM.
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Unread 10-24-2010, 04:33 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

Dr Farr, do you know why there are more pitted degrees than elevated ones?

Interesting to see 26 Taurus listed as an elevated degree considering the malefic star Algol resides there.
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Unread 10-24-2010, 04:38 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

Oh I am glad you asked that! I'll be interested to hear the response. And why isn't fixed Star Regulus included among Leo's elevated degrees?

And what of pitted degrees that are retrograde.....or elevated degrees that are retrograde? Does that change things?

And can we use the same degrees for solar returns/progressed charts/composites, etc?

Last edited by Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris; 10-24-2010 at 04:56 AM.
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Unread 10-24-2010, 07:17 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

Will try to suggest some answers (based on my understanding and experience)

-as mentioned in an earlier post, the stars are not "affected" by the degrees: the stars "shine through" the celestial peaks and pits

-but what about a planet in a pitted degree in conjunction with a star? The star influence modifies the planetary influence/quality: but if that planet is in a pit, the planet's expression of this combined influence is significantly neutralized. Say Mars is conjunct a malefic star, but is in a pit: here, the Mars/star influence (malefic in this case) is largely neutralized ("reduced to peace" as Al-Biruni put it).

-what about a planet in an elevated degree but conjunct a malefic star (say Moon at 26Taurus with Algol)? Since (in this example) the Moon is elevated, its + qualities and influences are amplified; but here Algol mixes with the Moon: the Moon being in an elevated degree, the malefic Algol influence through the Moon would be reduced-not eliminated, but modified so, while still malefic, not nearly as negatively influential as it would have been if the Moon had not been in the elevated degree.

-the pits and peaks refer to the zodiacal degrees, and not to the starry constellations. In 2012, the great Regulus (always at the Heart of the starry constellation of Leo) will pass into the zodiacal sign of Virgo: the stars are not "locked" at the zodiacal degrees (the zodiacal degrees-also called the degrees of the ecliptic-are "fixed", they do not "move", just as the zodiac of signs does not "move")
Each star moves through a degree of the zodiac in about 70-72 years. For example, Algol was at the end of 24 Taurus in 1900; in the future it will pass to 27 Taurus, etc. Same with all the stars. The pits and peaks (as far as I can find out historically) are NOT determined relative to any star connections with them or star influences upon them.

-retrograde planets in these degrees: whether direct or rx, a planet in a pitted degree is "neutralized" (that is, largely modified in its influence whatever that influence might be) A retrograde planet in an elevated degree (or in the better known critical degrees as well) is enhanced and the weakening/self-conflicted/defiant/rebellious quality of the rx status, is reduced (not eliminated, but modified "downward" in its intensity) by the rx planet being in the elevated (or critical) degree

-the pitted and elevated (and also critical) degrees are applicable as "modifiers" of planetary (and Part/Lot) influences in all chart applications, including progressions, SR's, mundane charts, horary, as well as natal.

-there are 61 pits; 35 peaks; although I haven't made a count, when we add the critical degrees (which "work" much like-if not identical to-elevated degrees) to the number of elevated degrees, we might get fairly close to a similar number for both groups (pitted and elevated/critical)
Update: I checked the critical degrees: there are 18 critical degrees which are not also in either the pitted or elevated degree categories; adding this number (18) to the 35 elevated degrees, we get a total 53 elevated or critical degrees, which is pretty close to the number of the pitted degrees (61)

-the pitted degrees might have a relationship to the "partes damnande" of Manilius ("Astronomica", 14 AD), which in turn reflected astrological concepts from as early as 200 BC. Manilius listed 102 "partes damnande" (but did not mention pitted degrees as such); he also mentioned a number of "elevated" degrees. However, we don't begin to see a similar list of pits and peaks in the Greco/Roman astro literature for several centuries: by early Arabic astrology times, complete lists of these degrees have become well known and considerably used in astrological delineation: they continued to be used through the time of Bonatti, even into early Renassaince times in the West. By the Enlightenment (Lilly's time) these lists had become changed and largely abandoned. Really, only the critical degrees continued to be widely considered. It is my understanding that contemporary Arabic astrologers, following the old ways, still make use of pits and peaks in many types of astrological delineation.

Last edited by dr. farr; 10-24-2010 at 10:12 AM.
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Unread 10-24-2010, 09:03 PM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

Thank you for that detailed explanation Dr Farr

I'll be checking how these degrees influence my chart. For starters, I'm aware that my Jupiter is in a pit and at a critical degree.
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Unread 11-01-2010, 08:55 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

ok, i have a libra mars in the 4th degree, so mars is elevated or does this mena that sense of self is more prevelant?
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Unread 11-02-2010, 03:33 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

It would mean:
-that Mars influence in the nativity is amplified
-and that the more favorable/benefic/constructive qualities of Mars are emphasized, and the disruptive/malefic qualities of Mars are diminished.
-also, that-everything else being equal-transits to the natal Mars are amplified in their influence.
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Unread 11-02-2010, 06:32 PM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

The list of elevated/pitted degrees seems to list the degrees of signs from 0 to 29. The first critical degree in Capricorn is 0, not 1. Going through the list manually, I see 4 degrees that are both critical and pitted (same as previously listed).

21 Leo
9 Scorpio
21 Scorpio
21 Aquarius

Is there any way to shed light on the mathematics of this system? I would find that most interesting.
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Unread 11-03-2010, 12:49 AM
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Re: Elevated and pitted degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris View Post
My Uranus is in Leo 4 degrees. Tho that's supposed to be in the sign of its detriment. So because mine is 4 degrees that bails me out somewhat? Cool if that's the case. lol. I know it's in Jupiters bounds/terms.

I see my Saturn in Scorpio 26 degrees is pitted.
I dont subscribe to the detriment, fall etc terminology.......or that the number of degrees by itself is significant. Everything ties in with the aspects to other planets and if you have a good aspect at 4 degrees say Libra with Uranus sextile to say Venus then it is propitious. A chart has to be taken as a whole and not just isolated placements. I have never heard of "pitted" and I have been practising for 30 years. Some of the old astrology is narrow and sexist, moralistic.......according to the times. Uranus as the planet of astrology also deals with breaking down stereotypes, is modern essentially and humane, non sexist. Moving with the times!!!.
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