Discussion of Ra Divinington's article:The 5 Lots of Fate

Oh wow, you're spot on with your interpretations so there's nothing for me to correct. Though I think your Mars is placed fairly well just because it's in its domicile. Plus since you're a night birth Mars will work best for you. I think you have a pretty good chart. The trigons are out of sect which is generally unfavorable but I think the fortune stuff helps out. It's said that the Trigons are more impotant than the lots though. The lots can only confirm what the trigons are saying but they cannot deny. Meaning that if your trigons were great and the lots sucked your chart would still be good.


Anyways, in general I'd disagree about Saturn being your best trigon. I'd give the nod to the Sun just because it's angular and exalted. That's pretty major! Saturn is in a good place though because it's where the MC is. Hellenistic astrology says that wherever the MC falls it takes on 10th house significations as well. So for you, your career makes alot of sense!!! Libra in the 10th (beauty) and MC in the 11th has to do with groups of people. You're bringing beauty to other people through plastic surgery. Pretty literal in your case!

Your Lord of Spirit with Fortune and Lord of Fortune is definitely a great thing. I've read the things that Antoine Garth mentioned and you're right, that is really auspicious.

This stuff really interests me but it's probably out of selfishness because my chart has like every indication possible lol. Lord of Fortune 10th from Fortune, Lord of Spirit 10th from Fortune, Lord of Basis 10th from Fortune. 2 Trigon Lords 10th from Fortune. All of them are angular natally too. With that said, I've yet to see any of it manifest in my life yet. We'll see!

Good luck to you!

hiimnotcool said:

Oh wow, you're spot on with your interpretations so there's nothing for me to correct. Though I think your Mars is placed fairly well just because it's in its domicile. Plus since you're a night birth Mars will work best for you.

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Thank you. You are probably right about my Mars. Even though it's in Aries and in opposition to Pluto, and both square the Ascendant, I don't have too much anger problems. Some, yes, but not as one would expect with this combo.

hiimnotcool said:

I think you have a pretty good chart. The trigons are out of sect which is generally unfavorable but I think the fortune stuff helps out. It's said that the Trigons are more impotant than the lots though. The lots can only confirm what the trigons are saying but they cannot deny. Meaning that if your trigons were great and the lots sucked your chart would still be good.

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Yeah, I guess my chart is sort of balanced. Considering my starting point and where I am now, I think I did pretty good for myself. But indeed, I will probably never know fame and world wide fortune. I can live with that, I guess. **** those trigons LOL!

hiimnotcool said:

Anyways, in general I'd disagree about Saturn being your best trigon. I'd give the nod to the Sun just because it's angular and exalted. That's pretty major!

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Hmmm, you're probably right again. I guess I'll see in a couple of years. I was thinking more about the placements, not the dignity, though I think dignity trumps placement. All in all, my chart is good in terms of dignity, I think, but the placements are just horrible to look at!

hiimnotcool said:

Saturn is in a good place though because it's where the MC is. Hellenistic astrology says that wherever the MC falls it takes on 10th house significations as well. So for you, your career makes alot of sense!!! Libra in the 10th (beauty) and MC in the 11th has to do with groups of people. You're bringing beauty to other people through plastic surgery. Pretty literal in your case!

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That's interesting! I don't know much about Hellenistic astrology, maybe I should read into it. I never thought of plastic surgery in terms of the 11th house. I find it interesting that you mentioned it because in Placidus I have Jupiter&Uranus in the 10th, Jupiter being the ruler of my 11th and Uranus, obviously, its natural ruler.

hiimnotcool said:

This stuff really interests me but it's probably out of selfishness because my chart has like every indication possible lol. Lord of Fortune 10th from Fortune, Lord of Spirit 10th from Fortune, Lord of Basis 10th from Fortune. 2 Trigon Lords 10th from Fortune. All of them are angular natally too. With that said, I've yet to see any of it manifest in my life yet. We'll see!

Good luck to you!

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Oh wow!! That sounds amazing!! I guess you could do whatever you feel like and probably succeed with little effort! Would you mind posting your chart and analyzing it a bit? Good luck to you too, though you probably won't need it!

Re: The Five Lots of Fate, Success, Your Fortune Chart

my POF (traditional) is 9 degrees 39 minutes in Cancer . Using Placidus , the POF is in my 10th house, while in whole signs my POF is in my 11th house. My Moon is in Pisces , so its ruled by a benefic( Jupiter)

RayAustin said:

Hello!
Glad you guys are interested.
I'm in the process of finishing the article, and making sure I'm doing everything right before proceeding further, and reading "The Anthology", which is the source of this information. There will be about five parts to the article.



I would calculate based on the whole sign version of your natal chart, which is how the ancient astrologers would have done, not on the placidus version. I will put the equations there too, if there's people who actually know how to figure it out by that.


Look at them as they would be in the whole sign version of your natal. I think though, that they will most likely be the same rulers.

The different lots will fall into signs. Say basis is at 1°53' Aries. Then the place of Basis is aries, and the lot ruler is Mars.




These are the proper names.


I've used the program Janus 4.

Heres the equations for the four lots besides fortune:

Spirit - Ascendant + Sun - Moon
Basis - Ascendant + Fortuna - Lot of Spirit
Acquisition - This is easy to find out, it's going to be the 11th whole sign from the part of fortune. So, if the part of fortune is in cancer, then the place of Acquisition is Taurus. Another simple way: it is the eleventh house of the fortune chart, and it operates just like one too.


Exaltation -- Depends on whether the chart is diurnal, or nocturnal. If by day, this is the amount of whole signs away from the sun's position to aries, if by night, the amount of whole signs away the moon is from taurus (always counting the sign you start at). Then, the amount of whole signs away from the ascendant (wherever the asc is, not the fortune first house) is the native's place of exaltation.

For example if the sun is in Scorpio, the place of its exaltation is six signs away.
So the exaltation is six signs away...

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based in your instructions my lot of acquisition falls in Taurus ruled by Venus , and lot of exaltation is in Aquarius(ruled by Saturn).

I'm alive ....
I'm here to answer any questions, now. Since things are being directed at me and answered by other people, which is quite uncomfortable. But I'm here now.

I'll be re-writing my article since I've learned a lot more things since then (I know I said that before, but this time I mean it. ;P).

If you have any questions as to what I meant, feel free to PM me or write them here. Thanks.

R

Re: The Five Lots of Fate, Success, Your Fortune Chart

hiimnotcool said:

Looks like you've got Vettius Valens down my friend. There is also a method to determine when the native in question will rise in life. This is called Zodiacal Releasing. It's when the Lord of Spirit releases the 10th from fortune. Also, do you know about Trigon lords to determine strength of a chart? There are 3 trigons for each person. 1 is primary, 1 is secondary, and 1 is cooperative. Valens considered these of prime importance in terms of fame. The Lots can only affirm what the trigons say. If the trigon Lords are weak the the lots arent able to work as well as they could.

The trigon Lords are as follows:

Fire:
Day-Sun, Jupiter, Saturn
Night-Jupiter, Sun, Saturn
Earth:
Day-Venus, Moon, Mars
Night-Moon, Venus, Mars
Air:
Day-Saturn, Mercury, Jupiter
Night-Mercury, Saturn, Jupiter
Water:
Day-Venus, Mars, Moon
Night-Mars, Venus, Moon


Angular trigons mean above average status in life, succedent means middling status in life, and cadent is weak status in life. Each person has 3 so take all into account. If a person has 1 angular, 1 succedent, and 1 cadent then it's safe to say they would have an average life in terms of success. If 2 are succedent and 1 is angular, then it's safe to say they will have above average life in theory according to astrology. Anyways, if you have any questions regarding this then let me know.

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This is a very interesting form but I'm completely confused about trigons. I understand that there are four but beyond that I'm stumped. Where do you find trigons in your chart? How do you know if they are strong? And how can you determine the three? An example would be helpful. I've been trying to read up on it and from what I can see it looks like just havinf planets in all three signs example: Scorpio, Cancer, pisces equals a trigon. I just don't get it.

Re: The Five Lots of Fate, Success, Your Fortune Chart

In reference to elements "trigon" means "triplicity": each element (earth, air, fire, water) is affinitive to 3 signs of the same element.
Each sign has 3 trigonal ("triplicity") "lords"*: 3 lords for charts cast for a time during daylight, and 3 lords for charts cast for a time during the hours of darkness. These triplicity lords for each sign are easily found in the several lists available on the internet. They are also listed above, by element; for simplicity however I'll list them by zodiacal sign:
Fire Element = Aries, Leo, Sagittarius (see above list for day/night trigonal lords)
Earth Element = Taurus, Virgo, Capricorn (ditto)
Air Element = Gemini, Libra, Aquarius (ditto)
Water Element = Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces (ditto)
-You know if the trigonal ("triplicity") lord in question is strong or weak based on the net dignity/detriment of that planet in the specific chart.
-When the referenced poster used the term "angular trigons" that simply means the 4 angles (angular houses) of the chart: the 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th houses and any planets in them; similarly "succedent" means the 4 succedent houses of the chart: the 2nd, 5th, 8th and 11th houses and any planets in them; and the "cadent" means the 4 cadent houses of the the chart: the 3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th houses of the chart and any planets in them.


**Virgo actually has 4 triplicity lords (according to earlier authorities such as Dorotheus of Sidon) , but that's another matter and not necessary to be concerned about except for very advanced work

If the sun is below the ascendant degree you're a night birth...if above then you're a day birth. If night birth look at the sign the moon is in and that will show you the trigon rulers of your chart. If you're a day birth then look at what sign the Sun is in and then that will show your trigons. If the planets that are trigons are in angles or in their own sign then that means they are strong. houses 5 and 11 are also great houses. All the others are considered pretty weak........I havent really focused on this stuff for many years so thats basically what I remember.

Okay I think I understand My chart is nocturnal and my moon is in gemini that makes my trigon rulers libra, aquarius and gemini. This makes my rulers jupiter, saturn and mercury.

Also another question what does it mean after you've shifted you par of fortune to fourm the new ascendent and though there are no planets there the m.c is there. How do you read this is a chart? Does it make a person more focused on their career and achieving their life's purpose/ Does it give a person high aspirations?

And another question in a nocturnal chart are mars, venus and the moon happy below the horizon or are all planets better to have above the horizon because it makes them extroverted in predicting fame/Sucess?

And for calulating; Lot of Basis (Asc + Spirit – Fortuna) - I got 419 quite a large number. Do i just subtract 360? Gving me 59. Would my Lot of basis then be 29 Taurus?

Hi RayAustin. Thanks for your articles!

It's been fascinating to look at famous people and their POF charts. For instance, I looked up Andrea Bocelli's chart (He reduced me to a blubbering pile of goo when I saw him in concert so I had to see how significant his fortuna chart was). He has his POF in the 9th house (international stardom) in Taurus (singing) with his POF ruler Venus (along with mercury) conjuncting his AC. Some of the planets were debilitated but all of the trigon lords (except one) were angular in his radical chart. You can really see his international success when you turn his chart giving him the taurus ascendant. The moon is there (9th house in fortuna chart) and it's also his house of spirit and exaltation. Very interesting.

Anyway, I have a question if you don't mind.

If the lord of POF is retrograde, what does that mean? My POF ascendant is Sagittarius with retrograde Jupiter in Pisces. Does that render it a malefic instead of a benefic? I'm imagining that "reversal of fortune" may apply here. The astrology x-files site mentions retrogration:

http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/arnolds-eminence.html

I have noticed that many (far more than chance should allow) of the charts of famous and successful individuals do not have any planets retrograde. I believe that in charts with middling to above average eminence, one can have great success if one also has no retrograde planets

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I was wondering what your take is on retrograde trigon lords or POF lords.

Figures, my only retrograde planet in my chart is the POF lord.

Thanks again.

Wames said:

Hi RayAustin. Thanks for your articles!

It's been fascinating to look at famous people and their POF charts. For instance, I looked up Andrea Bocelli's chart (He reduced me to a blubbering pile of goo when I saw him in concert so I had to see how significant his fortuna chart was). He has his POF in the 9th house (international stardom) in Taurus (singing) with his POF ruler Venus (along with mercury) conjuncting his AC. Some of the planets were debilitated but all of the trigon lords (except one) were angular in his radical chart. You can really see his international success when you turn his chart giving him the taurus ascendant. The moon is there (9th house in fortuna chart) and it's also his house of spirit and exaltation. Very interesting.

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Hi guys, sorry I've been so bad keeping up.

I was wondering what your take is on retrograde trigon lords or POF lords.

Figures, my only retrograde planet in my chart is the POF lord.

Thanks again.

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To be quite honest, I haven't done enough looking at retrograde trigon lords to give an answer. For the most part I've been looking at whether all these rules actually work or not.

The site you quoted is ran by Curtis M. who writes on Skyscript and I've briefly talked with about this stuff. I've read that site before for research. The article you quoted, I only saw mention retrograde once.

I have noticed that many (far more than chance should allow) of the charts of famous and successful individuals do not have any planets retrograde.

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So, I'm going to go through 20 charts for example from the J4 charts library of well known people and see who has retrograde planets. I went in alphabetical order (by first initial), picking the most notable.

I'm just putting 1 if they have any, 0 if they don't.

1. Albert Einstein / 0
2. Adolf Hilter / 1 / Venus
3. Alan Leo / 1 / Mercury, Mars, Venus
4. Alexander Graham Bell / 0
5. Amelia Earheart / 1 / Saturn
6. Barbra Streisand / 0
7. B. Mussolini / 0
8. Bill Clinton / 0
9. Billie Holiday / 0
10. Bob Dylan / 0
11. Charlie Chaplin / 1 / Venus
12. Chanel / 0
13. David Bowie / 1 / Saturn
14. Dick Cheney / 0
15. Liz Taylor / 1 / Jupiter
16. Emily Dickinson / 0
17. E. Hemingway / 1 / Saturn
18. Fitzgerald / 0
19. Farrah Fawcet / 1 / Saturn
20. F. Sinatra / 1 / Saturn

In my opinion though, it's important to know the percentage of people born with retrograde planets first, and then consider that when looking at eminent charts. And then we could also factor in whether the retrograde planet actually rules anything that described fortune in the first place; if it doesn't perhaps it is then irrelevant. There's lots of variables to consider--right now I'm interested in verifying the basic formula, though I do see that it works.

Legendary female entertainer Madonna has Mercury and Saturn retrograde. She has a very illustrious chart, and Mercury rules fortune for her and Spirit, Saturn rules her exaltation. I think this just means a bit of a delay if the retrograde planet rules something that describes fortune. She started making it around 26 years old or so (which isn't that young for the entertainment world), but now at 52 we might consider her at the height of her fortune, her last tour grossed over $200 million and I'm sure she's worth over $600 million. So I think we should consider that people as they are young start rising, and balloon/reach the top of the their top when they get much older. Compare her to the facebook owner, whose young, and I think is a billionare. Now it would be quite interesting to me, to look at his chart and see if there were any retrograde planets.

Thanks RA! Yes, the article was centered around Arnie's fame chart so the retrograde planets that I quoted above was the only mention of it. Hopefully he will write an article about it because his statement was so vague and out of the blue. I really like the site though. It's helped me to understand sect and things like that.

I've been looking up some of the charts of famous people (with the AA rodden rating) during the Hollywood Golden Age and I'm finding quite a few planets Rx, either ruling some of the trigons or in the POF house...edit out example: this subject matter is too complex for me to be making a definitive statement re one chart/trigons.

RayAustin said:

Hello!
Glad you guys are interested.
I'm in the process of finishing the article, and making sure I'm doing everything right before proceeding further, and reading "The Anthology", which is the source of this information. There will be about five parts to the article.



I would calculate based on the whole sign version of your natal chart, which is how the ancient astrologers would have done, not on the placidus version. I will put the equations there too, if there's people who actually know how to figure it out by that.


Look at them as they would be in the whole sign version of your natal. I think though, that they will most likely be the same rulers.

The different lots will fall into signs. Say basis is at 1°53' Aries. Then the place of Basis is aries, and the lot ruler is Mars.




These are the proper names.


I've used the program Janus 4.

Heres the equations for the four lots besides fortune:

Spirit - Ascendant + Sun - Moon
Basis - Ascendant + Fortuna - Lot of Spirit
Acquisition - This is easy to find out, it's going to be the 11th whole sign from the part of fortune. So, if the part of fortune is in cancer, then the place of Acquisition is Taurus. Another simple way: it is the eleventh house of the fortune chart, and it operates just like one too.


Exaltation -- Depends on whether the chart is diurnal, or nocturnal. If by day, this is the amount of whole signs away from the sun's position to aries, if by night, the amount of whole signs away the moon is from taurus (always counting the sign you start at). Then, the amount of whole signs away from the ascendant (wherever the asc is, not the fortune first house) is the native's place of exaltation.

For example if the sun is in Scorpio, the place of its exaltation is six signs away.
So the exaltation is six signs away from the sign of the ascendant. If the ASC was in Libra, the place of exaltation would be Pisces.

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I know all of these lots (for me in my chart) except Basis and Exaltation, they're way too confusing for me to figure out.
Basis would be Leo 23.31 + Virgo 14.4 (f) - Leo 2.58 (s) (your method) which comes to Libra 4.37 using the Arabic Lots calculator online. But is it fortune-spirit or spirit-fortune (I've seen it calculated both ways)? The other way round would make it Cancer 12.25
And then with Exaltation.. well, that's just too confusing lol. I'm a little confused by the whole "born above the horizon" thing I keep seeing, regarding the lots. Would someone mind helping me figure this out? So I have my Sun 20 degrees Libra, then my moon is at 0 degrees Libra. I was born in the early hours of the morning, if you mean literally day/night birth, would that be considered a day or night birth?
Ugh, as you can see, I'm confused

Edited: so I've read up on nocturnal/diurnal charts, and I have a nocturnal chart. So my moon is at Libra, being 8 signs away from Taurus. So, from Leo (my ascendant) 8 signs away would be Pisces, and so that would be my Lot of Exaltation. Am I doing that right? Now I just need help with my Basis, lol.

Correction..

Cascada said:

I know all of these lots (for me in my chart) except Basis and Exaltation, they're way too confusing for me to figure out.
Basis would be Leo 23.31 + Virgo 14.4 (f) - Leo 2.58 (s) (your method) which comes to Libra 4.37 using the Arabic Lots calculator online. But is it fortune-spirit or spirit-fortune (I've seen it calculated both ways)? The other way round would make it Cancer 12.25
And then with Exaltation.. well, that's just too confusing lol. I'm a little confused by the whole "born above the horizon" thing I keep seeing, regarding the lots. Would someone mind helping me figure this out? So I have my Sun 20 degrees Libra, then my moon is at 0 degrees Libra. I was born in the early hours of the morning, if you mean literally day/night birth, would that be considered a day or night birth?
Ugh, as you can see, I'm confused

Edited: so I've read up on nocturnal/diurnal charts, and I have a nocturnal chart. So my moon is at Libra, being 8 signs away from Taurus. So, from Leo (my ascendant) 8 signs away would be Pisces, and so that would be my Lot of Exaltation. Am I doing that right? Now I just need help with my Basis, lol.

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What time are you born exactly?
Some programs will give you the planetary hours and you can easily find out if you're a night or day.

All right, I'm going to dredge up this thread to give interpretation a shot. This is my first time doing anything this advanced, so there are a few parts that I'm not sure how to interpret. Any advice or critiques are certainly welcome!



The Lot of Fortune is in Pisces in the 11th house. Pisces is known for spiritual and psychic leanings, but is also associated with pharmaceuticals, the ocean, as well as entertainment, acting, film-making, and writing. In the 11th house, this may indicate support for or from groups and organizations, possibly a very public fortune.

Natally, the Sun is in Sagittarius above the horizon, so the trigons are the Sun in Sagittarius in the 8th house (succedent), Jupiter in Scorpio in the 7th house (angular), and Saturn in Pieces in the 11th house (succedent). In the Fortune chart, the Sun is angular in the 10th house, Jupiter is cadent in the 9th house, and Saturn is angular in the 1st house.

The POF ruler is Jupiter in the 9th house.

Unfortunately, the interpretation of Jupiter is giving me a little bit of difficulty because although it's in a cadent house, it is very close to the 10th house cusp, like the example chart in the article. I am also unsure of whether it's place in the 9th house is a bad thing, as the 9th house is associated with Sagittarian and Jupiterian traits. This leaves me hesitant to say whether this is a good or bad aspect, and unsure of how to interpret it's placement.

Regardless, the POF ruler is one of the trigons, which strikes me as favorable, as well as being the ruling planet of the Sun sign, Sagittarius.

Jupiter as the POF ruler in the 9th house could amplify the Sagittarian aspects of the POF, making the Pisces dreaminess more grandiose and extroverted. Perhaps a bit luckier? Alternately, the combination could point towards a spiritual path. (Let's hope it doesn't; I'd rather not be a nun.)

In addition, in the 1st house of the Fortune chart is another trigon, Saturn, which is conjunct the POF. This could indicate determination, hard work, and perseverance, while also sobering the Pisces/Jupiter influences.

The Lot of Spirit is in Cancer in the 5th house. Succedent, but still good. The ruler is the Moon in Libra in the 8th house. So Cancer makes the Spirit emotional and sensitive, but the 5th house is the house of pleasure, creativity, passion, romance, and children. And the Moon in the 8th house brings in themes of sex, death, rebirth, while the Libran influences advocate diplomacy and balance.

To be quite frank, this is the spot I'm having the most trouble with. I can't seem to figure out the Lot of Spirit in my chart. I'm stumped. Any help would be appreciated.

The Lot of Basis is at 0 Virgo, so exactly on the 7th house cusp. It's angular, obviously. It's ruler is Mercury in Scorpio in the 9th house - conjunct Jupiter, so they're in the same boat of being difficult for me to interpret. I would suppose the Lot of Basis in the 7th house would indicate that partnerships are the basis of sustaining fortune, while Virgo would indicate that most of these partnerships were practical and carefully chosen. The Mercury in 9th house Scorpio could indicate partners from other countries and ambition, but also secrets and controlling persons.

The Lot of Exaltation is in Leo in the 6th house. The 6th house placement isn't particularly good, but the ruler is the Sun, which is in the 10th house, and seems like a very favorable sign.

The Lot of Acquisition is in Capricorn. The ruler is Saturn, which is well-placed with the POF in the 1st house. The Lot of Acquisition also contains the natal Midheaven, Neptune, and Uranus.

Any thoughts? How did I do?

inaworldofsong said:

All right, I'm going to dredge up this thread to give interpretation a shot. This is my first time doing anything this advanced, so there are a few parts that I'm not sure how to interpret. Any advice or critiques are certainly welcome!

Click to expand...

Kuddos for trying it out! That said, casting and using a Fortuna chart requires at least a minimal (and to be honest, to do it correctly, more than minimal) understanding of the foundations of traditional astrology...and that isn't easy to do only by using the internet. Ask me how I know. If or when we try to conflate ancient traditional methods, which have a basis in logic and rules, with modern astrology...well, we are bound to mess it up. A lot.

Here is a link to an article about the seven Hermetic lots.

http://www.chrisbrennanastrologer.com/Brennan-Theoretical-Rationale.pdf

inaworldofsong said:

The Lot of Fortune is in Pisces in the 11th house. Pisces is known for spiritual and psychic leanings, but is also associated with pharmaceuticals, the ocean, as well as entertainment, acting, film-making, and writing. In the 11th house, this may indicate support for or from groups and organizations, possibly a very public fortune.

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Pisces is cold and moist, wet, bicorporeal, phelgmatic, feminine, prolific and mute. It is the lesser preferred domicile of Jupiter, the exaltation of Venus, the detriment and fall of Mercury.

According to Abu 'Ali, if Fortune is found in the 11th place

judge in a way like what was said about the 10th. For although this house is weaker {than the 10th}, still its nature signifiesthe greatest fortune, on account of which double fortune comes to be in all matters, without exception. But it is particularly auspicious then the seek resources from princes, or to slay them--for the 11th house signifies the substance of kings, princes and lords.

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inaworldofsong said:

Natally, the Sun is in Sagittarius above the horizon, so the trigons are the Sun in Sagittarius in the 8th house (succedent), Jupiter in Scorpio in the 7th house (angular), and Saturn in Pieces in the 11th house (succedent). In the Fortune chart, the Sun is angular in the 10th house, Jupiter is cadent in the 9th house, and Saturn is angular in the 1st house.

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May we make this easier and call them triplicity rulers instead of trigons? The trigons are the triplicities, and most traditional astrologers that I know of use Dorothean triplicities...which gives the three rulers you mention. I am curious though as to why you are looking at the trip rulers of the Sun? For the native's life, we want the triplicity rulers of the ascendant.

inaworldofsong said:

The POF ruler is Jupiter in the 9th house.

Unfortunately, the interpretation of Jupiter is giving me a little bit of difficulty because although it's in a cadent house, it is very close to the 10th house cusp, like the example chart in the article. I am also unsure of whether it's place in the 9th house is a bad thing, as the 9th house is associated with Sagittarian and Jupiterian traits. This leaves me hesitant to say whether this is a good or bad aspect, and unsure of how to interpret it's placement.

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Baby steps. Before you can evaluate Jupiter in the Fortuna chart, you first have to evaluate Jupiter in the natal. Is he in sect or out of it? Strong and dignified or not? Stationing or setting into the beams? Struck by the ray of (in aspect within 3*) a malefic? Supported by benefics?

The 9th house is the joy of the Sun, regards the ASC (or in this case Fortune) by trine (which has the nature of Jupiter) and is considered the best of the cadent houses. Why? Because it can see the ascendant in a benelovent aspect.

inaworldofsong said:

Regardless, the POF ruler is one of the trigons, which strikes me as favorable, as well as being the ruling planet of the Sun sign, Sagittarius.

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Jupiter is the night time triplicity ruler of the sign in which the Sun is posited. ASC is in Taurus, an Earth sign, and PoF is in Cancer, a Water sign. These are nocturnal signs, which means their triplicity rulers are the nocturnal planets.

inaworldofsong said:

Jupiter as the POF ruler in the 9th house could amplify the Sagittarian aspects of the POF, making the Pisces dreaminess more grandiose and extroverted. Perhaps a bit luckier? Alternately, the combination could point towards a spiritual path. (Let's hope it doesn't; I'd rather not be a nun.)

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The only way the PoF has a Sagittarian flavor is if it is in the 12th part of Sagittarius. I have a table here somewhere but I can't find it at the moment. What is very important to remember is that planet does not equal house does not equal sign. World without end, Amen.

inaworldofsong said:

The Lot of Spirit is in Cancer in the 5th house. Succedent, but still good. The ruler is the Moon in Libra in the 8th house. So Cancer makes the Spirit emotional and sensitive, but the 5th house is the house of pleasure, creativity, passion, romance, and children. And the Moon in the 8th house brings in themes of sex, death, rebirth, while the Libran influences advocate diplomacy and balance.

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This is where it helps to become familiar with what these two lots really mean. It's hard, because we want to associate fortune with luck and money, and spirit with the soul. Fortune is what happens to you. Spirit is what happens because of you.

inaworldofsong said:

To be quite frank, this is the spot I'm having the most trouble with. I can't seem to figure out the Lot of Spirit in my chart. I'm stumped. Any help would be appreciated.

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inaworldofsong said:

The Lot of Acquisition is in Capricorn. The ruler is Saturn, which is well-placed with the POF in the 1st house. The Lot of Acquisition also contains the natal Midheaven, Neptune, and Uranus.

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My advice, which is probably worth about as much as you paid for it, lol, is to ditch Neptune and Uranus at least in looking at a Fortuna chart. Why? Because until you at least understand the rest of the dignities, reception, position, and the true meaning of a cadent planet, there is quite enough to occupy you with the seven classical planets.

When I said baby steps I wasn't being condescending. And I really meant kuddos for you for trying. I hope at the very least I have been able to give you something to think about.

Oh, thank you very much! I admit I'm pretty new to all of this, but I learn best when I jump right in and I figured if I was going to ***** it up, it might as well be somewhere where people will point it out!

Originally Posted by tsmall
I am curious though as to why you are looking at the trip rulers of the Sun? For the native's life, we want the triplicity rulers of the ascendant.

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Ah, I think I misunderstood then. I didn't recall seeing mention of the ascendant, so I just assumed it would be relating to the Sun.

And you definitely gave me quite a lot to think about. I'm probably going to be doing a lot more research on all of this and perhaps try again another time.

Thank you very much!

Just finished reading Robert Hand's article in October 2014 issue of TMA about whole sign charts, POF, and Place of Acquisition and scratched my head until I stumbled on this thread. Way out of my depth here but lots of questions but I will keep it short.

How would these whole sign chart aspects read....

POF in cancer (12th house), with Lord (Moon) Ruled by Venus (Libra) in Whole Sign 3rd house, with a 3 degree separating sextile to natal jupiter (in whole sign 1st).
Lord of Fortune in 10th house (Taurus - whole sign), and that whole sign Taurus cusp is trine natal Venus in whole sign 2nd house by exact degree.

Would any of these placements be considered favorable?

I was wondering if someone might help me figure
Out mine? I have a brain injury and I'm finding it
Hard to figure out. I used to read birth charts
For free for many years but I've never done this
Before. It would be so greatly appreciated!