Black Dahlia

freedomlover said:

Quoting Shining Ray:

No, I had never read any of Liz Greene, although I'm sure I'd love to. Let's just say that unique life circumstances have kept me from being able to study other astrologer's works as I would have liked. The only astrologer I've read was Jan Spiller - Spiritual Astrology and New Moon astrology - and that was a few years before I ever actually saw my chart or began to interpret charts. They weren't chart interpretation kind of books.

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Liz Greene fills a large part of the book shelf, and I have also been interested in Charles Carters work, one of his books Principles of Astrology should be arriving today. I have one book by Jan Spiller that was co-authored it might be the same book. The only part with the life mission statements is that mine were both the same, the eclipse falls in my 7th house.

However, I'm very glad to know I'm not crazy with the way I see things like this working. I've caught a few articles on the net and various quotes, etc - and I know Liz Greene knows her stuff.

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Liz Greene seems to create a strong reaction either way, you love all her work or you don't. Kind of like Marmalade. I always say if your psychologically shy don't go for Greene's books, the references to Jung and Freudin work will be in there. She has depth and I enjoy her writing. Your not crazy you can see how this stuff works.

It's funny - about 8 years ago -again, before I got into astrology, or even metaphysical stuff, really. I used to have a job as kind of a gal Friday for a male friend of mine - I assisted him in his office, and did some cooking and cleaning at his apartment. He was constantly complaining about the Tv turning off and on - central vac starting up by itself, electronic equipment being fried. I told him it was a poltergeist. He just looked at me and called me, "Carrie". True story.

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Ha ha don't turn Carrie on us now and burn the forum down Although that's probably more fitting for me when my Mars-Uranus turns crazy . I only had one strange glass exploding experience, when I had to sleep downstairs in my mothers house, I thought someone had broken the window, and it wasn't, it was a pyrex glass that exploded and was neatly on the counter top in a tidy little pile. I think perhaps all my weird energy was floating about, I was a teenager when that happnened. Sometimes when people tell me their ghost stories I like to pull a funny face like their mad . If they don't believe my story they are close minded .

Loved the thread, and the synopsis of Elizabeth Short in your last post, especially. You're really very good at this.

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I needed your insights to look at the chart openly and read what is there, and not what I expect to be in the chart .

I feel she may have been planning a disappearing act, like her Father had when she was young.

Jerry.

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Yes, it for its date of murder has instructions abroad by sea. Have killed her 11.01.1947

JerryRR said:

I feel she was executed. A message not to the masses but to a select few.
This is why I feel this is not down to one person.
Yes you are right about couples going on killing sprees, in the UK Brady and Hindley for example.But I feel this is different.

The description of her injuries reminds me executions that took place in ancient Britain.

Perhaps she was silenced because she knew to much.Curiosity killed the cat.
I think she mixed with people that were in a different league which she was drawn too.When the penny dropped it was too late and she out of her depth.

The more I read about the case the more I think this is an execution,a warning to others.Perhaps she was lured to her death by someone she knew and thought she could trust.I feel she may have been planning a disappearing act, like her Father had when she was young.

Jerry.

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That's a fascinating take on it, Jerry! When I read this, the first thing I thought of was "the Mafia", as I remember there being a Sun in Capricorn sextile Jupiter in Scorpio aspect strongly affecting her chart at the time.
I went back to look it over again, and noticed an error on my part.
I'd written:

Transiting Mars in Capricorn exact sextile with transiting Jupiter in Scorpio making a yod, with the Apex being her North Node in Leo, and reactionary point being her South Node in Aquarius.

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I looked at it cockeyed- not used to having a chart with no houses! Anyway, Sun and Jupiter ARE making aspect to her Nodes, but not by a Yod. Sun in Cap is inconjunct her North Node in Leo, and semi-sextile her South Node in Aquarius. Transiting Jupiter in Scorpio is t-squaring them, with the outlet point being 24' Taurus - conjunct Algol!!!

It definitely shows she was caught in the grip of some very powerful Fixed energy that she had come into contact with. Jupiter in Scorpio was also exactly inconjunct her natal Chiron Rx in Aries. Chiron was in aspect to all the other points at 24', as well.

I was especially interested if this statement would show up in the chart:

Perhaps she was silenced because she knew to much.Curiosity killed the cat.

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Interestingly enough.... transits at the time of her death show an exact inconjunct between Mercury at 18' Capricorn and Uranus Rx at 18' Gemini!
To me, that describes it perfectly! To me, this says "Information leak!" THIS aspect DOES make a yod in her chart! Transiting Uranus Rx sextiles her Neptune in Leo, with the apex of the you being Mercury in Capricorn. I'm wondering if her Progressed chart would show anything at the reactionary point - 18'/19' Cancer. Or perhaps that is her Ascendant degree - as Joseph pointed out he felt that she was a Cancer rising?

Very interesting discussion indeed!


And a note to Shining Ray:
You wrote:

I needed your insights to look at the chart openly and read what is there, and not what I expect to be in the chart

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I think we make a very good team, don't you?

JerryRR said:

Good one Freedomlover.The transits are indeed very challenging.

I agree Mafia members may have been involved,but may not have been representing the Mafia,something more sinister perhaps.Groups within groups.
Conrtrolled by an elite that know the score.I also feel Elizabeth was on the payroll of a group within the police force.
This case has not been solved because it was never meant to be solved.

Tr Su= Su/Pl- Me/Ur -Ju.
Tr Me= Sa Pl Ma Ur Nep
Tr Ma=Sa/Pl Ur/Node
TrJu=Sa/Ur
Tr Sa=Su/Ur
TrUr=Ve/Ma Pl/No.

Jerry.

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By the looks of the chart, I think you very well may be onto something. The Mars in Cap sextile Jupiter in Scorpio making hard aspects to her natal chart could show the "payroll" thing, too. And the "information leak" aspect I found. Yep, it all fits!

Interesting ideas, it is strange how her murder was never solved considering it's gruesome nature. Surely the police at the time would make it a top priority. Shows you can get away with murder whether it was two individuals a group, mafia, or indeed she was punished by some sinister group. When she was found dead she had the initials BD carved into her body. Most of the injuries were inflicted before death, she was tortured, suspended head down by wires while her murderers began to sever her body. It does indicate that it would need more than one person to lift her body up. The first question in my mind would be, why did she leave her home and travel out? She wasn't earning her regular income, and she was always taking and discarding lovers. One note found after her death, and that was addressed to Elizabeth, stated:

I might be gone before you arrive. You say in your letter that you want us to be good friends. But from your wire you seemed to want more than that. Are you really sure what you want? Why not pause and consider what your coming out here would amount to? You've got to be more practical these days.

No one discovered what "Out there" meant. She never had practical behavior due to her fire Sun-Jupiter trine and lack of earth. I fear that when Jupiter trined Uranus and Pluto trined Jupiter, she went after some "opportunity" like a lucky break of some sorts, perhaps she was paid to do something and then it went drastically wrong. She put her "faith" in the wrong men that she was associated with. Saturn transiting exactly on her Sun, indicates the men/man she was involved with may have let her down, and this opportunity indicated by Jupiter trines didn't add up, and this man/men deeply disappointed her, and his/their intent was only to hurt her Sun-Chiron. The initials carved into her body BD stand for Black Dahlia, they had known who she was.

Before her death she apparently established a short relationship with a tall red haired man, he was seen with her at the station a few days before her dismembered body was found. She said she was going to meet her sister in a hotel. Whoever she was really meeting was probably her killer/s. The man was excluded from suspicion because he could prove he was with his family. The trail for her ended at the hotel. I believe she had met someone, who I personally think offered her money, the same as Jerry's theory, and that she was being paid off, on a a payroll, or being paid to do something. I think Jerry is definitely onto something there, considering the money connections and opportunities that can show under these "lucky" transits, and indeed may be connected to what led to her death.

The curious part of the case, was that somebody killer/s had sent a letter, enclosed with a note

Here are Dahlia's belongings letter will follow.

Enclosed with the note were Elizabeth's birth certificate, address book, and social security card. No letter followed and fingertips on the note that were visible were sent to the FBI but they matched none on file. Strangely the case stops there!! The names were searched in her address book with no luck. They followed up a 29 year old corporal from leave who talked convincingly about having known her. There were bloodstains on his clothing, and his locker newspaper clippings on the murder. He possessed a lot of knowledge of her injuries. He said that when he gets drunk he is rough with women. He was found to be an unbalanced person and was recommended for psychiatric treatment. In the address book that was returned a page was torn out, that was obviously the killer/s information. I don't understand why this wasn't pursued more, if they had fingerprints, why didn't they keep following the case?

Joseph Ledzion said:

She appears to be Cancer Rising. It seems pretty obvious in fact, with her beauty and hair. The Moon and Venus and Pluto in the first house.

I have rectified the Ascendant to be 4 degrees flat, that is 01:47 am. Venus on the Ascendant, and in the terms of Mars, you see.

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While I would agree that Cancer Rising is likely, I would choose a later degree to move Moon, Pluto and Venus up into the 12th - house of self-undoing.

there is a site (Black Dahlia solution dot org)......that sems to present some real facts and possibly the solution to this mystery murder.

'Black Dahlia' Break? Cadaver dog may have picked up scent

...Author Steve Hodel made the claim in his 2003 book, "Black Dahlia Avenger," that his father, Los Angeles doctor George Hill Hodel, committed the murder. Hodel has said he believes his father killed Short at the historic "Sowden House" in Hollywood where the family lived at the time.
Hodel said Friday that a November search of the home by a cadaver dog, named "Buster," and a retired police sergeant turned up the scent of human decomposition, sbsun.com reported...

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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/0...-scent-black-dahlia-at-father-hollywood-home/