Friends? what are those?

smilingsteph

Well-known member
Well I have Saturn, north node, pluto and my moon in my seventh house...
Why do I not want friends...
I mean when I get friends I find it so difficult to keep the relationship and would rather not have friends and be a hermit, as having these relationships are too demanding and difficult...
I get anxiety to go out in public because I would am afraid to see someone I know and have the DREADED "how have you been" conversation or "hey give me a call" when I know I would not ever call the person back or talk to them again...I guess I think that if I knew you at one point then that was then and this is now...
This hurts me in my job too...I go into a patients room and if I get too close to them I dread going back in there becasue keeping up my end of the relationship makes me nervous...like they know too much already...
I also want to make a career move and work on the cancer unit, but I am so afraid to see the patients come and go and develop close relationships with them only to want OUT!
I also have had wierd friends in the past...like I had a best friend that was 65 years old and I was 24 at the time...I also have this phone friend whom calls me and we can talk for hours but we have never met....
I know these house placements for me are to indicate that close relationships are meant for me, but what the heck! How am I supposed to learn from relationships when I would rather do things by myself and alone...I am perfectly content to be that way...
It is sort of embarassing when people ask what i did over the weekend and I would have to say nothing, because I would rather read, sew, shop by myeself then to have to contend with having someone else around to be irritated by....
I want freedom...no one holding me back...yet I have these placements in mu chart that indicate that I need to learn from relationships and so forth...
HELP!!!!!
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee63/smilingsteph/natalchart.gif
http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cg....gif&res=63&va=&cid=8g2fileFOLRxY-u1178068257
 
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unukalhai

Well-known member
For friends, we need to look at the 11th house. The 7th is relationships in general, how we balance with others (Libra)... But this is a general sort of relating... When considering an actual functional relationship, we need to consider the 7th and another house.

So, a relationship with a friend would be a 7th/11th combination... Here we have Sun (Leo on 7th cusp) and Saturn (Capricorn on 11th cusp).

The first indicator of hardship is Saturn's influence present in both houses.. Placed in the 7th, ruling the 11th. Then comes that Sun and Saturn, the house rulers, are in square aspect, in the mutable signs. This sets an underlying tension pattern in friendly relations. This is not an easy area of function for you, you feel an overarching tension that you may not even fully recognize, as astrological influences work beneath the surface. The midpoint of the square falls in Cancer, exactly on your 6th house Placidus cusp. So you are likely not just worried about commitment to demanding (Saturn) relationship, you also feel if you continue the relationship, or let it get too deep you'll have to take care of and "nurse" (Cancer) all their little problems and nuances that require adjustment on their part (6th).

Ruler of the 6th, Moon, is conjunct the ruler of the 11th in the 7th - This further amplifies the 7th/11th rulers midpoint on the 6th cusp. This seems to indicate you feel the need to provide a service in your friendships, as if you are not on equal grounds with your friends. Unconsciously you may feel the need to play the role of the servant, rather than placing yourself on equal ground, which would then be amplified by Saturn's 7th/11th placements to solidify the "servant" reality into a truly burdensome commitment.

You have your Sun on your IC, the place of inner security. This puts your conscious (Sun) focus on the internal self, giving you the hermetic nature. The placement of the Sun shows were our light comes from, where we shine the brightest, and for you that is inside yourself, in a safe, secure place where others cant touch you (IC). Mercury here, conjunct Sun, also shows that's where your mental facilities are focused.

Not too surprising to hear you have had older friends, Saturn/Capricorn after all does rule over elders. Perhaps this is actually beneficial for you, that you will work through elders in your quest for successful friendships? Older folks are wonderful, they have such immense wisdom to share and many have broken down the "walls" and "fronts" that us younger folks have yet to defeat. It would seem Saturn's influence in your 7th/11th would make you feel more comfortable in friendships with your elders, so don't shy away from that, you can use those experiences to build up your ability to form friendly relationships. In building up one's ability to relate on any level, we must go for the relationships we feel the most comfortable in, and learn from those experiences, and apply that experience to other relationships.

Relating is a Venusian thing, so it's also warranted to have a look at the position of Venus in the natal chart whenever considering relationship issues, of whatever level of relating in question. Most obvious is the opposition to Uranus, which shows you demand an unusually high level of freedom within (and even from) relationships. You want to maintain your separateness from others, even as you try to forge relational ties. With this aspect, getting too close might make you feel as if your separateness, and thus personal freedom, is encroached upon. If one can establish defined personal boundaries, and form relationship ties without the need to cede one's personal freedom, this aspect can be quite positive; allowing one to engage in unusual relationships that shed much light upon the self. This, however, is made difficult by your 7th/11th situation which pushes you to potentially unrealistic levels of commitment in what is supposed to be a casual, lighthearted relationship of friends.

To that end, it would be most beneficial for you to better define friendships for yourself. From your chart it seems you take them way too seriously.. While true friends are always there for eachother, part of the nature of a friend is to allow the other to be individual, separate, and unique. This is what separates friendship from family, romantic and intimate relationships, and why friendship is ruled by the "collaboration of unique individuals" Uranian 11th house. To experience true friendship is very liberating, although it is a rare happening in today's society obsessed with polarization, me-versus-you, control, sex, and lack of friendly boundaries. To be a friend is to respect the other, even if you don't agree... To have someone to lean on, but not tip over... To share your troubles with, but not trouble them personally, To have someone you can talk to and disagree with; yet still respect... To have someone you can vent to, but not burden or bring down. Someone who you may even loathe in aspects for their ways, yet love at the same time for their good intentions. As with all things Uranian, it's a bit of a paradox, with both sides in contradiction, but forms a beautiful balance.

True friends are hard to find. If you can find one, hang on to that person like they're your last breath. If you find 3 true friends in life, you're doing good. I've found two so far, and I've met alot of people. There's a big difference between a friend and an acquaintance, and it's a rare thing, and it's even rarer for it to stand the test of time. You'll know you've found a real friend if 10 years later and through heaven and hell you still respect eachother, even if you wonder why you still even know this person.

As far as the nodes go, I've come to the conclusion they are horribly misunderstood by most astrologers. You are your south node. This is where you've been, who you are, what you will continue to be without active and conscious work through the north node. The south node is familiar, successful, stable and rooted in many lives of experience. The north node, it's polarity point, shows how you balance against what you already are to evolve and further your soul. You don't so much become the north node as you have north node experiences to further your existing self (SN). This is the basic nature of evolution.

So in essence at this point in your soul growth you are a fairly self (1st) oriented person, but through relating to others (7th) you will gradually grow away from that, and through relating you will expand yourself. We tend to reach out to the north node for new experiences, and the north node is essentially uncharted territory. People often feel a bit out of context when working with the north node, but will grow more accustomed to it as they grow in this life.

I should point out it's more dangerous to neglect your south node than to not experience your north node. I have Mars conjunct my North Node, so my natural course of action (Mars) is towards uncharted experiences, yet at my most recent nodal reversal I started to understand how much I had neglected my south node, that I was throwing away so much of my existing self in a relentless persuit (Mars) of my north node. The nodal reversal worked to show me how important it is to claim, experience, and build upon who you already are, not run off headlong into the unknown with no plan to bring the rewards and new experiences home. You can seek out your north node for your whole life, but if you have no method of integrating those experiences into your soul (south node) they can be quite fruitless. So don't beat yourself up for being a "self oriented" person and enjoying your time to yourself. It's just your nature, and where your Sun is focused as well. Security (Sun in the 4th) with the self (1st house SN). Just make sure you venture into your 7th house when you have the desire and circumstances allow, and bring those experiences back into yourself. In time you'll find the 7th will be more comfortable and a larger part of yourself.

I hope I haven't confused you, and keep in mind these are just some of my observations and ideas, and you will need to digest them and apply them accordingly to your actual life experience :)
 

smilingsteph

Well-known member
Wow I cannot even begin to tell you both how enlightening reading these posts have been. My aunt always told me as you have Unukalhai, that to have one or even two friends is a total blessing. I find people that I have encountered lately have been my friends for selfish reasons. One even took one of my papers written for class and turned it in as her own. I feel like wasting time with superficial people who judge others is not for my benefit. People are generally not fun to be around. My best friend is my sister. We make eachother angry but then forget and still love eachother through thick and thin.
Right on with the issue that I feel like I have to help others in a friendship. So I become exhausted with the feeling of having to do things for them even without them asking. I did many favors for people in school, such as spending hours on their reports only leaving mine pending for later. So I gave up on the relationships all together, becasue I was placing stress on the relationship.
I loved to hear your reading about my sun placement. I find so much fun with myself and I love to be by myself reading and thinking. Now I dont feel so wierd about that. I am a hermit!
I also do so love relationships with older people. I have this group that I go to dinner theatres with and we have so much fun! I find that they have so much more substance and are pleasing to talk to. That is why I love my patients in the hospital. Most are elderly and I never miss a moment where they can give me some advice, as they have so much to give even if their bodies are not working as much. That is why I cannot work with kids, I love kids I just find more pleasure with older adults. I have always been that way.
I am going to look into the nodes a little better. I think I had the wrong idea of them and your insight cleared some misconceptions for me.
I really appreciate your time!!! and you words of kindness!!
I am so happy to have had the courage to ask this question. Thanks! You both made my day
Stephanie
 

Emmy

Active member
HI!
The comments in this thread are brilliant! I was wondering if anyone could comment on how friendships could be affected in the chart of a person (myself) with Aries ruling the 7th H (Aries 19 degrees) with no planets in that house and Mercury ruling the 11th (Virgo 0 degree cusp) with Pluto at 1 degree Virgo in the 11th H? Thankyou! --Emmy
(Birth info.: Feb.12,1958 10:55pm Bitburg,Germany)
 

starlink

Well-known member
Hi Unukalhai! I totally LOVED your interpretation of Smilingsteph's 11th and 7th and the Nodes. I am printing it out, it is fabulous, you should write a book, honestly, you have talent. Reading Smiling's dilemna, I so strongly could identify with that. In my case the South node is in the 1st in Saggitarius, NNode in 7, Gemini. Sun in 6. Ruler of 11 is Mercury, ruler of 7 probably also (we are working on the rectification as my Scorpio Asc. was calculated at 29° something and now it could be 0° 22' in Saggitarius. And my Mercury is EXACTLY squared by Saturn, 2°-2°. Even though I have ruler Sun in the 5th, and I can be very sociable and had to be sociable for years on end (ex-patriot coctail parties and what not), I just LOVE to be alone and be left alone. My Jupiter (supposed new Asc.ruler) is in the 12th, so is my Moon which clearly points to the need of being alone. I also find it very hard to have a REAL friend. I have one male and 1 female and my exhusband now is a second male friend (he knows me inside out and vice versa of course). I am not afraid of making friends like Smiling, but I dont like closeness either. In her case there are more factors strongly pointing to her freedom need, in mine there are few if any (more clearly seen in my numerology profile with loads of 5's). I do feel sometimes like a hermit and wonder if that is good for me, but it is really hard to get me out of the house (no planets in the 4th!!).
No idea why, must be the Moon in 12. Problem is, that all the people I know really are interested in me and I have always been popular, even though I do not do anything for it.(maybe because of the Astrology which always gives a mysterious aura I guess and I am constantly invited. I am terribly selective to whom I want to go or not.) I have repeatedly been asked to become the president of this or the leader of that, but always decline because I dont want to be in the spotlight, yet I seem to give the impression that I am made for that sort of thing. Strange really. I have moments where I just want to disappear, not like killing myself, heavens no, but just to be on an island in the ocean with NOone around me. Or going into a convent.(even though I am not religiously inclined at all). So I do understand Smiling 100%. I also would not beat myself up for it. If that's what you want, than be like that. Do what makes you happy. Cheers, Star.
 

unukalhai

Well-known member
Shining Ray said:
Hi Unukalhai,
when I read something about a man with South Node in 7th, who thought he was actually selfish.

First thing to consider is 7th house (balance) south node indicates the soul's existing nature is to balance with others; subjectively this person isn't selfish but rather is more likely to consider things selfish if they don't involve balance on a conscious level. Thus, more likely to consider one's own actions selfish if they are for the self... Even if they are not truly selfish, which is actually a blatant "me first, no regard for you" state.

Acting for one's own interest isn't negative unless we do so with blatant and hurtful disregard for our peers. In fact, not acting for our own interest results in equal suffering for both parties. For you, because you don't get the things and situations you need to be happy, and for the other because it essentially creates co-dependence and on a deeper level leads to an expectation of the other to also give up an equally unhealthy amount of their energy.

I have been wondering whether we sometimes on some kind of level realise how we rely too much on relationships and in attempt to balance this out we go too far towards the North Node in 1st, and can leave the South Node behind.

It's certainly a possibility! NN in the 1st also shows we NEED to rely on ourselves, very much in a martian sense (naturally ruling the 1st, settings its tone) -- Certainly we can't take this to an extreme, however.

I have Saturn on my NN in 1st so It could possibly be a painful or frightening place to go. But there are times, I find myself being selfish and can be really demanding in that I want time and space for myself.

Saturn on the 1st house NN would seem to indicate you have the need to build structures you can rely on to gain independence from relationships, and to build up the self, and I'd bet a lot of your alone-time revolves around that.

Considering Saturn's balance point on the south node in the 7th house, you may be really sensitive to other folks who restrict your needs for self-structuring and identity-building.

I fail to see how needing time alone is in any way selfish, unless you are avoiding commitments you've made to others or otherwise causing undue stress to others from your needs. And even then it would seem a reevaluation of those relationships and their true importance would be more worthy than considering yourself selfish.

But this statement could still be coming from a South Node 7th place, by calling myself selfish for wanting to have time alone.

It's all a perspective, yes! One of the hardest things in life, and especially in chart analysis of the self, is to step back from one's own patterns and see things from a "out of mind, out of body" perspective. Indeed I know of noone, myself included, who has this mastered. In fact, this is a major goal of many spiritual practices, be it meditation, shamanism, astral experiences, etc etc. We as humans will go to great lengths to experience a fresh perspective outside the self, and blissful and beneficial the brief glimpses we sometimes catch can be.

Nice analysis by the way :) . It was just so weird having someone reflect thoughts, I had been thinking about the Nodes.

Thanks :) Synchronisity is neat, yes :D

I suppose the Nodes act like any other opposition and balance between self - and one to one relationships/friendships is needed (in the case of 1st/7th house Nodes).

But not just the nodes, even! I had, a while back, read about planetary polarity points, and how the spot opposing any natal planet functions much like the north node opposes the south node -- and this makes alot of sense. If we accept a basic goal in life is to attain personal balance, it would seem clear the opposition point to any of our planets is a pathway to balance.

This also highlights why oppositions in the natal chart are so important; I've come to see them as the most important aspect in the chart, because two planets have a "balance partner", a very mutual relationship. They are also "lightning rods" for transits, in a more powerful sense than another other aspect if we accept that every aspect has a counterpart in the exact opposite point in the chart. (sextile/trine, octile/trioctile, etc)

And thanks Star! :D I'm certainly hoping to author an astrological work or two at some point, I suspect that will be a reality in about a decade when Mercury progresses and Uranus arcs to my ascendant, along with the MC progressing to my Sun. I have much to learn, yet a decade from now if I continue my studies it would seem a waste to not author atleast one work. Thanks for your encouragement :)

I too am somewhat of a hermit... Ok OK, more than somewhat :p Having Venus in the 12th squaring Saturn with an 8th house NN makes me reclusive, secretive. I tend to pick those I socialize with carefully and generally like to stay in my 12th house with Venus and Neptune, Sag on the cusp, I find it a wonderful place... But I love to see good people and socialize, just not on an everyday basis. I really enjoy the time I spend with good company, but it means so much more to me if it's not constant, just as we don't drink fine wine and have the richest desert with every meal. In the same manner I value my friends, as the finest wine and richest desert :D

One addition: I just remember the keywords for the nodes, I read from Linda Brady's "Discovering Your Soul Mission" -- SN: Soul Pattern NN: Soul Potential

Possibly the most perfect keywords for the nodes. We certainly shouldn't neglect either our patterns or potentials.. but rather let the potential build upon our patterns. South node as bad, malefic or otherwise negative in a natal chart is certainly misconstrued... Although transits to the south node do often prove challenging and difficult. But who's to say a cosmic force challenging our ingrained patterns is going to be easy? After all, the forces do have their ways and we're only human.
 
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starlink

Well-known member
Yes Unukalhai,
I tend to pick those I socialize with carefully and generally like to stay in my 12th house
exactly how I feel too. I need intelligent (not intellectual) and especially intriguing and interesting people. Small talk is not my thing (I am picky ain't I?) To me those people are like a fantastic Capuchino!! (booze does not agree with me, I feel it numbing me after 2 minutes!and a good desert is lethal to my figure even though I could kill for it, ha ha) ,they energize and provoke me.
 
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holly

Well-known member
Unukalhai, thanks for contributing so well to this discussion! The information and insight you provided is helpful to all of us, not just the original poster.
 

Lin

Well-known member
I admit I haven't read all the replies, so someone might have said what I'm about it say: Saturn rules responsibility. The ruler of your house of friends is Saturn and it falls in the 7th, next to the moon, and you may feel it impossible to have ANY relationship without feeling an overwhelming responsibility to that relationship and for that person. It may have begun with feeling responsibility for a parent or for the parent's relationship.

Friendships are supposed to be "fun" and with your Saturn Moon conjunction to begin with.... Saturn being the ruler of friendships, square your Sun-Merc in Gemini (the sign of "fun") this does not come naturally!! It's hard to have fun with contemporaries because the whole "responsibility" thing goes along with it. It also doesn't help that the ruler of the 7th squares Saturn-moon, and I'm wondering if you are married or if you have ever lived with another person as in a boyfriend or roommate and how that worked for you.

I think you didn't have enough personal freedom as a child and are still trying to get it. I think once you get enough personal freedom (it's like a bank account... you can't 'spend' what you don't have...) you will feel able to let yourself have fun with others.
The feeling 'responsible' part is something you will have to work on in this lifetime. It was given to you, and if you believe in Karma, well, the position of Saturn is always karmic.... so you need to figure that out... how to be responsible to yourself first, and then figure out how much responsibility you have to others... it must be kept in balance.
LIN
 
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gaer

Well-known member
unukalhai said:
As far as the nodes go, I've come to the conclusion they are horribly misunderstood by most astrologers. You are your south node. This is where you've been, who you are, what you will continue to be without active and conscious work through the north node. The south node is familiar, successful, stable and rooted in many lives of experience. The north node, it's polarity point, shows how you balance against what you already are to evolve and further your soul. You don't so much become the north node as you have north node experiences to further your existing self (SN). This is the basic nature of evolution.
I've been looking for this paragraph in this post for at least a week, maybe more.

So often people are told to disregard their strengths as weaknesses. While it is true that to stay the same is to stop growing, and that's never good, it does not follow that points in our charts that show where we are comfortable show weakeness. My SN it conjunct Mercury in the 3rd. I'm very good at pitting my mind against another's, and that ability is something I still have to fall back on in certain situations, when I really am right, when someone else really is wrong, and a point has to be made.

But my movement is towards the 9th, and my own evolution within this lifetime has been in that direction, definitely towards the the NN. I had to use my SN to start the journey.

Gaer
 

sara31tx

Well-known member
smilingsteph said:
Well I have Saturn, north node, pluto and my moon in my seventh house...
Why do I not want friends...
I mean when I get friends I find it so difficult to keep the relationship and would rather not have friends and be a hermit, as having these relationships are too demanding and difficult...
I get anxiety to go out in public because I would am afraid to see someone I know and have the DREADED "how have you been" conversation or "hey give me a call" when I know I would not ever call the person back or talk to them again...I guess I think that if I knew you at one point then that was then and this is now...
This hurts me in my job too...I go into a patients room and if I get too close to them I dread going back in there becasue keeping up my end of the relationship makes me nervous...like they know too much already...
I also want to make a career move and work on the cancer unit, but I am so afraid to see the patients come and go and develop close relationships with them only to want OUT!
I also have had wierd friends in the past...like I had a best friend that was 65 years old and I was 24 at the time...I also have this phone friend whom calls me and we can talk for hours but we have never met....
I know these house placements for me are to indicate that close relationships are meant for me, but what the heck! How am I supposed to learn from relationships when I would rather do things by myself and alone...I am perfectly content to be that way...
It is sort of embarassing when people ask what i did over the weekend and I would have to say nothing, because I would rather read, sew, shop by myeself then to have to contend with having someone else around to be irritated by....
I want freedom...no one holding me back...yet I have these placements in mu chart that indicate that I need to learn from relationships and so forth...
HELP!!!!!
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee63/smilingsteph/natalchart.gif
This sounds exactly like me!!!!!!!!!!
 
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