why am i such a weakling?

judging by my natal chart is there any indication of being, perhaps "over sensitive" or "weak"?

arealbirthchart.gif



ever since i can remember i was always told to "get a backbone" or that i should "stick up for myself" more. but i can't because i see myself as some sort of victim all the time, when someone insults me, instead of feeling anger towards that person, i feel pity towards myself. is it my mars in 12th house? could it be my cancer ascendant? or maybe it's just my worry wart position, mercury in virgo reading too much into things?:rolleyes:

i've also noticed that i don't have much fire or air in my natal chart but alot of earth and water...which imo is pretty useless as it's not doing me any good in my life...

i'd rather have more fire and air in my natal chart and be assertive, enthusiastic, individualistic, overpowering and active yet rational, logical, adaptable, social than underestimate my abilities and worth like i do or not being able to communicate effectively or clearly. i'm not even exaggerating, everything that comes out of my mouth is enigmatic and obscure and i have trouble "getting things across", including my feelings, perhaps this is why i have trouble getting my point across in an arguement or sticking up for myself as i tend to just take people's sh*t and suffer in silence...could this be my lack of fire and air?

is this why i'm such a weakling?
 

May8mike

Active member
Well, you've got a few water elements in your chart which do represent sensitivity. Earth isn't weak; I wouldn't call it assertive, I look at it more as "standing your ground", like an immovable boulder.

I think your "weakness" comes from sensitivity. But remember woofwoofbarkbark, just because one is sensitive, does not mean they're weak. I look at myself as a pretty sensitive individual, yet I believe I'm very strong on the inside (not outside lol).
 

unukalhai

Well-known member
The placements you noted certainly are indications of sensitivity and an unwillingness to assert yourself; a tendency towards being more passive and introspective. Mars, representing aggression, is even more passive and stubborn in Taurus, as you have him. Here he is "slow and steady" and prefers staying power to quick burnout.

I doubt you are truly a weakling, although a Neptune square Mars transit likely makes you feel weaker than normal; more on that in a bit.

However, if those were the only things to consider, you probably wouldn't be here wishing you were more aggressive. It would be natural to you (to be passive), and you would prefer the more passive stance. People who are truly "wired" to be passive are fairly content with it, and arrange defenses to prevent the potential downsides rather than desire aggression.

But this is not the case. Your chart has a classic, powerful indication of aggression: Sun square Mars, at a tight orb. This aspect is a real powerful indication of aggression, in fact one that can be too much to handle. I know, I have it as well! And yikes, can it be powerful. Sun square Mars is a real challenge. Think of the human will and the natural human aggressive nature in powerful conflict... For you, in the fixed signs even, showing a real gridlock. But, the Sun rules Leo, and is therefore in dignity, so your will is likely to restrain your aggressive nature more than your aggressive nature to strongarm your willpower. However, one does have conscious control of the will, so it is up to you how much you choose to restrain Mars, although there are other factors, more on that shortly.

You also have Uranus opposite the midpoint of this square, forming 135 degree aspects (sesquiquadrate or trioctile, depending on how much you like hard to spell words) to both ends, and forming the midpoint picture Sun/Mars=Uranus. This is actually the main configuration of your chart...

Witte said:
SO/MA=UR The violent man. To threaten or beat-up somebody. The man who suddenly becomes aggressive.

See also: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-aspects/sun-square-mars.php
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/sunsquaremars.html

It appears the manifestation of this configuration is blocked, and is causing you to be torn between the opposite natures in your chart. But don't worry, we've all got some forces on both ends of the spectrum in our charts. It is this internal conflict that propels our self-growth, an inner thrust towards self realization.

I wonder, in your earlier years, did you have run-ins with this configuration? Did you express your aggression in ways that led your elders, school authorities, etc etc, to "put you in your place" ? Has it become ingrained in you that expression of your aggressive nature is in fact bad? You very well may have attempted, consciously or not, to repress the energy of the Sun-Mars-Uranus configuration, deviating instead towards the more passive indications in your chart, and now you have become frustrated with this repression. Uranus involved with Sun-Mars shows a tendency towards socially unacceptable rebellion, certainly something that will evoke elders to "correct", although their influence can be more stifling and negative than constructive and positive.

Even with the other placements that indicate a more passive nature, Sun-Mars in such a powerful dynamic aspect and configured with Uranus is going to have a major role. Either it will be frustration at a lack of assertion, as the energy is blocked, or excessive aggression that alienates you from others. The goal of the chart seems to be finding the balance between these two extremes. Continued repression of this nature may lead to a real reckoning with it later in life, so it's good you have a conscious desire to learn to express it.

Verbal aggression is a major issue for you. You have Mercury in Virgo, which is actually one of it's dignities as it rules Virgo, but leads to being very self-critical of your words. The real kicker here is the midpoint picture Mercury/Mars=Saturn, as Saturn opposes your Mercury/Mars midpoint. Mercury/Mars represents mental and verbal aggression. How we use the mind and the mouth to assert ourselves. Saturn represents restrictions and limitations. Saturn is strong, dignified in it's own sign of Capricorn, and has much power to wield against the Mercury/Mars combination. In fact, Saturn shows where we are insecure and place limits on ourselves, requiring more self-assurance than otherwise. In a nutshell, limits are placed on verbal assertion, which leads to excess contemplation or doubts in the verbal assertion department, backed up by the powerful feeling nature of the Cancer ascendant. It all points to lack of confidence in an underdeveloped ability to assert oneself. Practice is in order :)

I would recommend you start a sort of verbal assertion "training program" for yourself. Maybe start with some trusted friends or these people who nag you for not being aggressive enough. Let them know you want to get over this challenge. And it's a challenge, not a problem, because through this you will likely learn how to be assertive without being offensive or violent. Maybe you go to a school with a debate team, or know some people who have heated viewpoints you don't agree with? What it seems you need is practice. The solider doesn't just jump onto the battle field without training... Many hours are spent at the range, practicing on "safe" targets before real combat; in the same manner, sparring verbally and mentally with your peers seems to be healthy for you.

You're probably thinking nooo, thats not me... I couldn't or wouldn't want to do that. That's Saturn talking, still operating in his underdeveloped, unsure mode of self-doubt and limitation. However, a developed Saturn is a steady rock, confident in his abilities through years of practice and self-testing. When Saturn knows he's on tested and familiar ground, nothing will move him. So imagine the influence on your Mercury/Mars pair changing from doubt to stability. I bet if you started "sparring" verbally with a few people who were willing to help you learn the ropes, you'd feel a lot more confident, and learn how to assert yourself. Sure, you'd feel out of your element, but sometimes one has to "brave it" and prove to themselves they can do it. "Braving it" is certainly something Mars respects, his very nature! In fact, Mercury, Mars and Saturn are in a powerful grand trine in your natal chart, showing it is a latent ability just waiting to be harnessed. Trines show latent abilities, but ones that must be consciously activated. They are a use it or loose it kind of thing. Dynamic aspects like squares compel us to address things; "easy" aspects like trines show abilities that can only be realized if we find the drive and compulsion within ourselves.

In fact, Mars will retrograde over your Sun/Mars midpoint this year, in opposition to Uranus, showing the time has come for you to better understand and express your Sun-Mars-Uranus energy. That Sun-Mars-Uranus configuration is a real eye-catcher in your chart, three very receptive planets in strong dynamic aspect is nothing to overlook, and certainly a major life theme, especially with Uranus on an angle and the Sun-Mars midpoint on an angle. As you wrote your post, Mars was first coming to contact this midpoint, and will conjunct the exact midpoint this Friday, making the retrograde pass in mid December and making the final pass March 20th 2008. The coming months, therefore, are excellent times to reflect upon why and how you've blocked this energy in your chart, and what you can do to promote it's expression.

Your last Mars return (July 24, 2007 0:58 London time) has the Moon, representing your more sensitive/passive nature, in near exact opposition to the Mars return, directly showing the conflict and awareness you are experiencing.

As far as the more passive nature "not doing you any good", I think you'll find that once you learn to constructively express the Sun-Mars-Uranus energy shown in your chart, it will be a most excellent mediating influence, allowing you a healthy balance between assertiveness and receptiveness, anger and understanding, needs of the self versus the needs of the other. Indeed neither alone is any good, but in balance a wonderful combination.

I should also say do watch yourself over the coming months. The retrograde of Mars over a most sensitive point in your chart (and your ascendant to boot!) could unleash assertion in an unexpected manner, especially as it appears you are blocked and frustrated at it's lack of manifestation. The retrograde Sun-Mars opposition of late December this year, which is activatd by the full Moon of Dec 23rd, happens across your ascendant/descendant axis, indicating conflicts in relationships with others are very likely. However, if you use these potential conflicts constructively, you stand to gain some of the experience you need to properly assert yourself, at the least make a good start towards this. I would honestly be surprised if there wasn't some conflict coming up in the coming months. Certainly be aware and make the best of it.

The other transit of this year that is important for you is the last solar eclipse, Sept 11 of this year. It fell directly upon your Mercury, showing new ways of the mind and mouth are at hand. This was a very powerful eclipse, activating Mars, Jupiter, Uranus, and Pluto, so I have no doubt there will be quite the powerful unfolding of your Mercurial nature.

There is another transiting consideration as well. That is the square of transiting Neptune to your Mars, active from the beginning of this year until around the end of the 1st quarter next year. Neptune is a powerful, sublime, mostly unconscious and deceptive slow moving influence. She works to dissolve and slowly break down whatever she touches. She's very much different than Mars... This has been working to not only further restrict your expression of Mars, but to frustrate you even further than you already are. Neptune tends to repress Mars, as Neptune is more altruistic and passive (think Pisces, which Neptune rules) than aggressive, self-centered Mars. This conflict is helping to bring to a head the other Martian considerations, and is demanding a more holistic expression of your Sun-Mars square, which it is activating -- opposing the Sun while squaring Mars.

Rob Hand on Neptune square mars said:
The chief danger of this transit is that it sets you up for situations in which you will emerge as a loser, especially in your work and at home. Or someone else may set you up in such a way that you are forced to act without knowing what is really going on, and therefore you act ineffectively. Since you are not getting much reinforcement from others at this time, you will be forced to rely on your own inner resources and self-confidence. Do not expect others to provide you with a backbone; you need to provide your own.

Defeats may make you feel discouraged, but dont take them too seriously. Like all transits, this one will pass. And there is a lesson to be learned here. The more you identify with what you do rather than what you are, the more difficulties this transit will cause. You are not what you do. This transit may force you to confront that issue, and if it does, you will learn to handle your life much more successfully because you will not always have to protect yourself.

This may be a period of low physical energy. You may even feel like sleeping all the time, and within reason it is probably best to take it easy. Don't subject the body to unusual stresses, and avoid exposure to illnesses

As you have Sun-Mars in square, this is also an opposition to your Sun. It is actually a fairly similar transit, but I'll note some of Rob's additional notes on it

Rob Hand on Neptune opposition Sun said:
In your relationships, make absolutely certain that you present yourself to others as clearly and straightforwardly as you can. Do not leave people in any doubt about your intentions or your position on any matter. If others have any reason to misunderstand you, they will, and they are likely to work against you because misunderstandings easily turn to fear or mistrust. For the same reason, avoid involvement in devious schemes as they would likely work against you.

Aside from cautions, This transit can show you a very spiritual dimension of life. You can become aware of a deeper meaning in your life that you have ever been aware of before. The problem is that the road to this understanding is full of snares and delusions that you must find your way through.

Combine these factors all together and it becomes clear that you are at a most important time when you will have to reckon with the indication of the Mars return: Moon vs Mars, sensitive emotions vs self-assertion. This theme was repeated in your recent solar return, in that chart the Moon and Mars are tightly square. The midpoint of that square is within a degree of your natal Mercury-Mars midpoint, which opposes your Saturn, bring that configuration into direct focus this year in your life... Synchronisity at work again.

Please realize that none of my words here are gospel, and I encourage you to use them solely as a starting point to understanding your chart and experiences on your own terms. Only you can truly know yourself and understand how the planets work for you, my only hope is to provide you with food for thought and some technical information about configurations, transits, etc..

Cheers :D
 
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jainajaina

Member
As someone who also has 12th house moon and mars I would also recommend reading Tracy Marks excellent book "Your secret self, unlocking the mysteries of the 12th house".
 
wow:D this is so overwhelming, thank you all so much for your input!

unukalhai, what can i say, you are totally spot on.

Has it become ingrained in you that expression of your aggressive nature is in fact bad?


my father is a major influence as to why i repress my anger.

he is a cancerian so i constantly feel like i'm walking on eggshells with him, because one minute we're having a pleasant time and the next his mood changes and he becomes grumpy and insultive.

he puts me down alot. obviously i would react to his attitude towards me with anger, but then i would "set him off" and he would get angry and eventually "put me in my place" by using violence or threatening to be violent if i didn't keep quiet.

it was like he would provoke me and not expect me to react and when i did, he became explosive, and i mean, very scary, i mean he once tried to strangle my mother when she spoke back to him, so to backchat in my household was a big no no and i guess over the years this is what has made me supress my anger to the point where i'm now a young adult and being passive is all i know and i'm frustrated with it, because when i do become angry, i feel like i can't let go, something is holding me back...

don't get me wrong, i know it's unacceptable to "talk back" to your parents, but i don't see anything wrong with arguing your point...but whenever i did, it would just upset my father to the point where he would erupt, it was like disagreeing with him upset him, so i learned to keep quiet.

it's funny that you recommend starting a verbal assertion "training program" for myself, as i've recently become more "willing" than ever in my life to get my point across & to be more assertive.

i've actually been "practising" on some people at college, especially my sociology and psychology classes where alot of debates take place between the students and although i haven't jumped into these debates all guns blazing, i've definitely been taking baby steps, chipping in now and then, in the past, i would've remained quiet and felt like my contribution in anything would be useless.

i've had my down days where i just ask myself why i even bother trying (such as yesterday, which is why i made this post), but i've so far managed to dust myself off and pick myself back up and try again.

i try not to let that feeling of being defeated hold me back, like i would've done before, so i'm pretty shocked to hear that mars was first coming to contact this midpoint, as i didn't even know that and i don't think i've ever had this "urge" to get my voice heard before...not that i can recall anyway...so it all makes sense now and i'm pleased to hear that this up and coming months would be an excellent time reflect upon how i can envoke all this blocked energy in my chart as i've been thinking about how to do so for some time now!

lol @ Shining Ray

Even your name suggests you have more bite to you than you realize

looking back i didn't even put much thought into it, it just came to me spontaniously, so i guess there is a beast wanting to be unleashed in me somewhere. lol

i see what you mean about expressing the raw energies of my t.square through my appealing image. i definitely try to do that through make up, clothing and my creative side in general and i intend on working out how to express these qualities through my personality as i feel, at the moment, i may "give off" a false exterior of myself & people may end up disappointed when they start to realise that i may be lacking in confidence and fire when my appearance says the opposite.

as for the males in my life they appear to be ambitious, strong-headed and mature, yet easy going, relationships can be a problem and i'm currently trying to avoid them because i don't feel "fit" enough as a person yet. i need to work on myself before i can get involved with other people. i've also distanced myself from many of my friends due to this.

May8mike and holly...after reading both your posts i realise i was being too hard on myself by calling myself a weakling just because i'm sensitive, as sensitive people can also be just as brave as outgoing personalities so thank you both for for input!

and jainajaina, i will definitely hunt for that book!

thank you all very much for taking the time out to help me out and answering my question, really appreciate it:D cheers!
 
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unukalhai

Well-known member
woofwoofbarkbark07 said:
wow:D this is so overwhelming, thank you all so much for your input!
unukalhai, what can i say, you are totally spot on.

Your very welcome, glad we all could be of help :D

my father is a major influence as to why i repress my anger.

Interesting, often Saturn represents a father figure of authority...

he is a cancerian so i constantly feel like i'm walking on eggshells with him, because one minute we're having a pleasant time and the next his mood changes and he becomes grumpy and insultive.

he puts me down alot. obviously i would react to his attitude towards me with anger, but then i would "set him off" and he would get angry and eventually "put me in my place" by using violence or threatening to be violent if i didn't keep quiet.

it was like he would provoke me and not expect me to react and when i did, he became explosive, and i mean, very scary, i mean he once tried to strangle my mother when she spoke back to him, so to backchat in my household was a big no no and i guess over the years this is what has made me supress my anger to the point where i'm now a young adult and being passive is all i know and i'm frustrated with it, because when i do become angry, i feel like i can't let go, something is holding me back...

don't get me wrong, i know it's unacceptable to "talk back" to your parents, but i don't see anything wrong with arguing your point...but whenever i did, it would just upset my father to the point where he would erupt, it was like disagreeing with him upset him, so i learned to keep quiet.

It is said we go through experiences related to our ascendant, Cancer for you, as a path to our Sun's potential... Sun in Leo deals with expression, in hard aspect to Mars is expression of aggression.

And wow, that is a harsh environment to handle, obviously it's had a major impact upon you. I must say it does invoke a bit of rage in me, that I absolutely despise those sort of tactics, and they represent a highly insecure parent who probably hasn't matured past their own child. Sounds like it amounts to psychological AND physical abuse, which is not acceptable in the least.

You are not presently in a physically dangerous situation, are you? Given the transits you are going through, and the blockages expressed, with the strong energies coming up the next few months, if you feel you are in any physical danger you need to rectify that. I don't know of your current situation, nor am I asking you to spill it here, but you do need to be aware that if physical danger has a probability for manifestation in your present environment, the upcoming transits are danger indicators for you. I don't want to alarm you, nor am I saying manifestation happens with every transit and aspect (it does not) but I have a responsibility as an astrologer to forewarn of these things.

What's most important at this stage in your life is to begin healing from it. Of course, this isn't an overnight process, but you have such strong energy in your chart I know you can transcend it. As we mature, the experiences of our younger years form a base for our maturation, presenting us with a challenge that we can use for massive growth.

Certainly not everyone will react as your father does, and as you grow in experience beyond this, I'm confident you will find much more freedom in your expression of assertion, certainly with the configurations in your chart you have the ability to excel in this area. As difficult as the experiences you've had may be, they will end up tempering you in a beneficial manner; everything has a bright side. Without these tempering experiences, the assertive configurations in your chart very well could manifest in quite harsh ways; the sort of aggressive pairings you have could very well manifest as violence or otherwise excessive aggression in those with nothing to hold them back.

As we reach what society calls "adulthood" or age of majority, which corresponds to the lunar nodal return around 18-19 years of age, we reach a critical phase between the nodal return and the major transits of the 21-22 year period of age. At 21, we have both a Uranus square, and the upper (270 degree) Saturn square; Uranus works to promote individuality and "claim" one's individual persona, while Saturn works to cement and fortify one's very being by testing and building of self-confidence.

Part of your nodal return revolves around claiming the upper hand in relationships as you are being put on path to do at this very moment. This doesn't mean dominating over others, but simply claiming and acknowledging the fact that as a human being you have a certain amount of inherent power and "clout" among others. Nobody is a speck of dust, we all have a significant amount of "gravity" in the world. Of course, we must respect and handle that in a positive, constructive manner, as its said with power comes responsibility. At your nodal return, Pluto will be exactly on your descendant. Pluto deals heavily with personal power, and in the journey with Pluto we start to recognize just how much sway we have in our environment as realized souls. A very powerful lesson indeed, one that people will either use as the ultimate in constructive power for betterment of all, or the ultimate in domination and subjugation of others... In it's most positive sense, Pluto represents the enlightened healer, such as a Reiki master, who can heal with their very hands. In it's lowest sense, an obsession with death and power trips, a complete energy drain. Certainly a force that must be handled wisely. Transiting the descendant, we face powerful reactions from others as to our own personal power. The nature of self-assertion you will be working to build over the next several years will be tested at the nodal return, the exact date of March 29th 2009, although the event encompasses a number of months on each side of that date. The real beginning is mid-December, when the nodes first enter the Leo/Aquarius axis on their way to return.

Realize that Mars and Pluto are closely related, in such that Mars is the personal representation of transpersonal Plutonian energy; both deal with human assertion and power, Mars in a personal "my power" sense, Pluto in a "my power working with the power of others" sense. Mars is the solider but Pluto is the army of soldiers, you could say.

As Shining Ray mentioned, you certainly do have Moon and Pluto involved with the Sun-Mars square, forming a T-square. However, as I work mainly with midpoints, as aspect configurations are simply midpoint pictures, I tend to separate things out into pairings based upon lowest orbs. Following this process, Sun/Mars=Uranus becomes a distinct configuration, with Moon/Pluto=Sun becoming another configuration, although both are closely linked. Since midpoints work by conjunction, opposition, and square, it would also be Moon/Pluto=Mars, or combined into one, Moon/Pluto=Sun/Mars.

This is because your Moon/Pluto midpoint is at 20 Leo, the degree of your Sun, and square to your 20 Taurus Mars. The advantage to using this sort of notation is we are able to break out a configuration of a number of planets into more distinct groups, which makes it easier to understand. The more planets you throw into a single picture, the harder it is to understand as a whole. Somehow we must break things down, and I find midpoints to be the ideal method, although that's just my preference :)

To understand Moon/Pluto, we simply think of how these two object function as a pair. Moon obviously represents how we feel, our reflections, our emotional nature in general, as well as motherhood and caring for others. Pluto tends to represent power, control, transpersonal assertion, and extreme states of emotion. It is important to recognize Pluto is a water planet, and thus also deals with emotions and feelings much as the Moon does. Water's basic nature is the soul, the inner self that the spirit (fire) is a manifestation of. It is important to distinguish the soul and the spirit, and realize that when we work with the water element we are working with the inner soul, not it's projected spirit and manifestation of a singular life, which works through the fire element.

Ebertin synthesizes Moon/Pluto as:
Ebertin said:
Principle
An extremely emotional life or an extreme expression of feeling

Psychological Correspondence
+ A very great and deep expression of feeling, but confined to special channels of expression or oriented in a one-sided manner; a specific excitability of a particular emotional complex, a person torn between a fanatical striving for the attained of desired objectives and a soft-hearted sentimentality. Psychometric gifts
- Occasional emotional outbursts always resulting from specific causes of the same kind such as jealousy, offended vanity or conceit, personal insults, etc.

Neutral Inclination to impulsive actions

Sociological correspondence
People with extreme emotional expression.

Probable manifestations
+ The pursuit of selective objectives with fanatical zeal and with subsequent attainment without any regard for other people.
- Violent outbursts of feeling, inner shocks or emotional upheaveals

Certainly it would seem these things line up with the experiences you've had with your father, who seems to have been able to fly off the handle in a negative expression of Moon/Pluto in your reality. It might be interesting to observe the synastry between you two, as parent-child synastry is almost always quite powerful.

Certainly on a personal level for you, this links in very strong emotions and all-consuming feelings with the Sun-Mars square, indeed a very strong link between Yin/Water energy (MO/PL) and Yang/Air&Fire energy (SO/MA/UR). Indeed expression of aggression (SO/MA) might bring about the strong feelings shown by MO/PL... these two pairings have strong interaction!

it's funny that you recommend starting a verbal assertion "training program" for myself, as i've recently become more "willing" than ever in my life to get my point across & to be more assertive.

i've actually been "practising" on some people at college, especially my sociology and psychology classes where alot of debates take place between the students and although i haven't jumped into these debates all guns blazing, i've definitely been taking baby steps, chipping in now and then, in the past, i would've remained quiet and felt like my contribution in anything would be useless.

i've had my down days where i just ask myself why i even bother trying (such as yesterday, which is why i made this post), but i've so far managed to dust myself off and pick myself back up and try again.

i try not to let that feeling of being defeated hold me back, like i would've done before, so i'm pretty shocked to hear that mars was first coming to contact this midpoint, as i didn't even know that and i don't think i've ever had this "urge" to get my voice heard before...not that i can recall anyway...so it all makes sense now and i'm pleased to hear that this up and coming months would be an excellent time reflect upon how i can envoke all this blocked energy in my chart as i've been thinking about how to do so for some time now!

Excellent! Mars is certainly at work for you :D

In analysis, you can use Uranus as a marker for the Sun/Mars midpoint since he opposes the midpoint. Anything that forms a conjunction, opposition or square to Uranus is also forming the complimentary aspect to the Sun/Mars midpoint. Since they are actually in aspect as well, making the midpoint picture far more powerful, if you enabled octile and trioctile (45/135) degree aspects in whatever you use to generate charts, you'll see the actual aspects to the configuration.

I encourage you to do some reading on Mars... maybe just type "astrology mars" (without the quotes) into google and paw over various writings on him.. study the mythology of Ares, the sign of Aries, etc etc... Red is a good color, too :) Probably the most important thing to realize about Martian energy is it's focus on "just do it". Silly trademark of Nike, yes, but they stole it from Mars, who after all does rule competitive sports! Mars pushes us to "just do it" and see what happens. Brave to the point of danger and even ignorant risk, Mars thrusts forward into action without worrying about what will come of it. It's Saturn's domain to be worried, Mars would rather just commit the deed and get feedback on his actions from actually doing them. Actually experiencing it is the best lesson, after all. Of course, we have to temper this with some healthy reserve, and not get ourselves into battles we can't win, but your grand trine with Mercury in Virgo (common sense), Mars in Taurus (steady action) and Saturn in Capricorn (industrious perseverance, attention to duty) makes a wonderful combination if Mars can work up the nerve to take action. I have Mars on the north node, square my Sun, so I've had plenty of run-ins with him, in both the positive and negative sense, and having Capricorn rising I've battled excessive doubt and reserve myself. One of the most important questions I've had to ask myself is "what do I really have to loose?". More often than not, the answer is "not much, really", and then it becomes apparent I should "just do it" and take a minor risk. If you're not dealing with high risk situations and are in good company often "just doing it" isn't a bad plan, and often there is more to loose if we doubt ourselves. Another thing with Mars is to accept our mistakes, realize that in giving things our best go without eons of reticulation and doubt, we might be wrong a time or two here and there.. But what's so special about always being right? Are we that ego-invested in always being right, and should we be?? If we take our mistakes as lessons rather than failure, and learn from them, realizing that through our silly little mistakes we learn in the most real way possible, we'll be right next time. And not right because we read it in a book, right because we have experience. We've done it, we've learned from it. So next time you doubt, ask yourself.. what do I really have to loose? A little sound Mercurial logic often reveals what we think we stand to loose is only a product of our fears... Ole Saturn saying "but, but, but... i might seem less competent and dutiful if.."

i see what you mean about expressing the raw energies of my t.square through my appealing image. i definitely try to do that through make up, clothing and my creative side in general and i intend on working out how to express these qualities through my personality as i feel, at the moment, i may "give off" a false exterior of myself & people may end up disappointed when they start to realise that i may be lacking in confidence and fire when my appearance says the opposite.

Found them, and I'd say a classic expression of Leo energy combined with Mars... Leo is so expressive, a most radiant sign.

as for the males in my life they appear to be ambitious, strong-headed and mature


Sounds like your Capricorn descendant :)

Relationships can be a problem and i'm currently trying to avoid them because i don't feel "fit" enough as a person yet. i need to work on myself before i can get involved with other people. i've also distanced myself from many of my friends due to this.

Smart move. Serious relationships when the focus is on self-growth in a personal sense can be quite painful, especially if the other individual doesn't give you the space you need. Your last Venus return had the Sun, ruler of Venus, in your reclusive 12th house, a place where we get in touch with the self and readjust ourselves for a new cycle, so some time to dig into yourself probably isn't a bad idea. I bet after you do some work with Mars you'll also be much more able to get what you want in terms of romantic pursuits.

Saturn was also closely conjunct your Sun on the return, further indicating a more "shrinking into the self" sort of feeling in Venusian pursuits. Venus also retrograded over your Sun, showing a realignment of how you express yourself in relationships, which is likely what you're working on in your alone time.

None of that is bad; there's a time and place for everything... Your next Venus return (July 12 2008) repeats the transiting Moon opposite Mars of the last Mars return, with Mercury exactly on your ascendant. Mercury deals with communication, and works as an "agent" to Venus... Venus deals with relations between people, but Mercury works as the connector.. So on your next Venus cycle there will certainly be important contacts. In addition, Jupiter (luck, expanse) will be transiting your 7th (relationships) at the return and shortly thereafter transit Saturn, ruler of your 7th house. Sun on that return will be on the 2nd house cusp, the natural house of earth Venus, and in tight sextile (balancing, beginning of harmony) to Mars. This all seems quite auspicious for applying what you'll gain with Mars over the coming months in a relationship... Namely going after what you want and getting it!
 

starlink

Well-known member
Unukalhai, I just saw this thread and I cannot add ANYTHING to what you have said already (oh well, maybe that Chiron in her 2nd house of selfworth does show that this is where it really hurts! and on top of that the ruler in 12 conjunct a Mars that wants to and just cannot or rather dares not act, all curled up in the 12th house). Everything you wrote and HOW you wrote it, absolutely magnificent. I dont easily give compliments but you are really excellent and once again, start making notes for that book of yours!! Sure, there are others who write really well, but not so "userfriendly" (they write more like Marc Edmund Jones, ooohh, chew chew) as you do and I think that is very important. And you have the human touch as well. I truly enjoyed this thread. Cheers, Starlink.
 

starlink

Well-known member
And to you Woofy, I can only say that you have no idea (like me at the time!!) how strong you really are! I also have a Moon in the 12th house, in Scorpio and also the ruler of my 2nd house, Jupiter in this case. My Moon squares Pluto, opposes my Sun. And I have painful Chiron in the 12th as well!! So I can identify strongly with what you told us. I had a husband, and he was a Cancer!! (some of those Cancers, reeeeaaaal bully's and yes, terribly scared once you turn onto them!! I once got soooo angry after always having been put down, I took a bottle (he loved his drink) that was standing on his bedroom table and swayed it over his head threatening to hit him with it. Boy was he terrified and NEVER in my life did I feel sooooo good!! It took no more than half a minute, but that was enough for me to have gotten my satisfaction. I calmly (Taurus) put the bottle back and smiled at him. Showed also how well he knew me. I could never hit him. What I want to say with this is that in my case it was not a Mars-Sun square that made me lash out, it was the Pluto Moon square. (by the way, my Mars is ultra strong in Aries in the 5th house!!!, another sign of strength I had NO idea I had. AND ruler of my Sun, also in Aries in trine to Pluto and conjunct Mars.
And I never used that strength until Pluto conjuncted my Ascendant and I decided from one minute to the other to leave him. And I did. Within a week I found another place, within 2 month a full time job (at 51 years of age mind you!!).Ever since I have totally changed from a nice "I do everything for you" girl to a person who does not let the cheese be taken away from her bread anymore (Dutch expression, ha ha!)So there you are. You can develop that strength now that you have been told that it is there inside you! By all means, do go to that course in order to become more assertive.
Good luck to you!! Star.
 
lol @ starlink, wow a new place and a full time job and all this within a week and 2 months after a sudden outburst of rage? blimey, weren't you were on a roll!! lol, well i'm glad you eventually found your hidden strengths and i hope i will too!:)

and what can i say? suprise suprise! another great post from unukalhai yet again!:D lol

You are not presently in a physically dangerous situation, are you?

fortunately, i'm not in a physically dangerous situation at present, that brawl between my parents happened almost 4 years ago and he has definitely calmed down alot since then.

nowadays he's more verbally insultive than anything else and as i've learnt to restrain my temper by not responding to his insults, this prevents him from getting riled up, but thanks for your concern!:)

you're definitely right, in that my father seems pretty insecure at times.

he was always seen as the "black sheep" of his family and has had to fend for himself from a very young age after he had been kicked out of home.

his life hasn't exactly been "peachy" yet he's managed to turn his life around and has defeated many obsticles with his no nonsense, driven approach to life.

i understand that he has been forced to "thicken his skin" due to his past and may have had to put people in their place by being a little harsh and firm in order to be taken seriously. i think this is where his criticizing streak comes from. i think, over the years he's been conditioned to not take anybody's **** and to ocassionaly protect himself by putting up this "cold facade" that stems from the rejection that he faced from his past. so although he can be abit of a pain in the backside at times, i am understanding when it comes to his mood swings and have learnt how to cope with it even though it can be frustrating at times!

i personally think he's quite an interesting character and would love to check out his birth chart, but he doesn't know what time he was born and doesn't have hold of his birth certificate so i guess a parent-child synastry is out of the question which is a shame.


Part of your nodal return revolves around claiming the upper hand in relationships as you are being put on path to do at this very moment. This doesn't mean dominating over others, but simply claiming and acknowledging the fact that as a human being you have a certain amount of inherent power and "clout" among others. Nobody is a speck of dust, we all have a significant amount of "gravity" in the world.

definitely! it's actually this realisation over the past few months that has caused me to privately focus on my self-growth and work on how to assert myself so i'm very excited to hear about being tested at the nodal return and that i've been put on the path to acknowledge my potential as i feel ready to do so and will certainly be aware of any conflict coming up in the coming months and will try to make the best of it.

i will also take your advice and do some reading on mars for inspiration on "just doing it" as your so right, there really isn't much to loose!

i used to be quite dependant on alcohol to boost my confidence in the past and although it was a silly thing to do, i look back and i realise that i found myself "just doing it" alot of the time and it made me see, that the things i was too afraid to carry out, weren't that bad at all and i slowly became more confident in that particular act that i was doubtful of in the first place!

i don't touch the stuff anymore but alcohol has helped me understand alot of things, as far as progression is concerned and that it is important to step outside our comfort zone's now and then as a little leap is all it takes to grow and improve, and yes, change can be painful, but "no pain, no gain" as they say!

i guess with the combination of my grand trine with mercury in virgo, mars in taurus and saturn in capricorn, perhaps i am capable of taking risks, sober that is, battling doubt & progressing emotionally, my natural raw energies just need to be activated and the fact that i have acknowledged this suggests i am on the right track!

thanks so much for your contribution unukalhai, your detailed posts have definitely made me see things in a different light and i'm beginning to feel alot more optimistic and prepared for the future!

and i totally agree with starlink, you are a very good writer and can explain astrology in a way that is very simple to digest!

so keep up the good work because i'll definitely be first in line to purchase that book of yours! i'm saving up my pennies as we speak! lol:D thanks again!
 
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gaer

Well-known member
Tamara,

I had to laugh at "woofwoof". It sounds to me as if you have EXPERIENCED a lot of that in the home.

First of all, Unukalhai has done a superb reading. There is one thing I want to mention about the Pluto—Mars—Sun T-square.

That is power. Dictatorial, potentially violent misuse of power. When you see this in a chart, there is very high chance that you are dealing with anger, dangerous anger, abusive, voliolent anger.

But does it reflect what YOU do or what you EXPERIENCE?

You have given us the answer:
my father is a major influence as to why i repress my anger.

he is a cancerian so i constantly feel like i'm walking on eggshells with him, because one minute we're having a pleasant time and the next his mood changes and he becomes grumpy and insultive.

he puts me down alot. obviously i would react to his attitude towards me with anger, but then i would "set him off" and he would get angry and eventually "put me in my place" by using violence or threatening to be violent if i didn't keep quiet.
Please understand that as a personal who is in an abusive relationship, and I refuse to be tactful about this, it is very hard to see what is happening objectively until later, when you are removed from that environment.

The T plays out in this way. While you are young, and you are still fairly young, there are really only two ways to survive. One is to fight back, which is really no solution, since the violence is escalated. The other is to cower or pretend to put up with it, which is ALSO no solution, since what do you learn? You learn to protect yourself by hiding your feelings, by protending to be calm.

Yet while you are at home, in such a situation, you have no choice.

Later, in some way, you will either abuse other people (in another way) as a result of the abuse, thus passing it on, or you will rise above it by understanding why your father is as he is and why it is wrong to be that way.

In other words, thought the T is hard, and it's something you have to overcome (now mostly by escaping the abuse, getting away from it), the choice is yours in the future. You either carry it as a wound for the rest of your life, with the possibility of striking out at other people at any time, which will probably shock you when it happens, OR you will go deep within yourself, learn about the abuse, and then you will help other people who face the same thing.

There are always choices.

This is why all T's and crosses, although a burden, are a potential gift. The difficulties you experience give you the compassion and wisdom to teach others who face the same problems.

If you take the gentleness you feel within yourself and turn it into weakness (in your mind), this is the worst thing you can do.

You are not weak. You are strong.

You have survived, right? Sure, you feel pity towards yourself, and ultimately you have to move past that, but isn't that natural? When someone is emotionally abusive towards you and you are not independent, certainly you will hurt. Would you not feel empathy towards anyone else who has gone through what you've gone through?

Telling someone to "get a backbone" when that person is in a position where disagreeing, standing up for heself, is going to provoke ridicule and even violence is unfair. Obviously the people saying this to you have not been in your shoes.

So, your chart is tough. This is no surprise to you, right? But along with this burden you have a gift.

Look to that beautiful grand trine, Moon/Mars to Saturn to Mercury. People with Saturn stabilizing those other planets have discipline, endurance, patience and strength that others often don't see. Using Placidus (there are other house systems), Moon and Mars are "locked away" in the 12th, which is consistent with what you have told us. You have been told not to express your will and your feelings, so naturally you have a tendency to hold those things back, to keep them secret/hidden, and anyone who has suggested working on ways to express those things is right.

This will be one of your challenges as you get older. It will also be something you will teach others, I believe. Do you see it? If you learn to express your feelings and needs, without fear, having overcome the fear you have grown up with will give you the power to say to others, "You can do it too."

Cancer is an introverted rising sign, and Moon in Taurus is not ostentatious, but it has a lot more power than people realize, even in the 12th as in your case. You will not appear to be a Leo now to many people. Many will not even believe you are one. They will say, "No, you don't seem like a Leo".

Again and again I have seen people with Leo Sun or Aries Sun, when the rising sign is very different and the Moon is not at all "showy", get pegged for another sign. When the Moon is in the 12th, often people pick up on what they feel as a "Piscean" vibe. And Cancer rising can be so shy.

But you are a quiet Lion. Quite by accident I saw your pics. The Leo is there. You'll always be a gentle one, if you master the T. That's the key. Understand abuse for what it is, learn from it, then make it a key part of your life to make sure others understand it too and find a way out, as I fully believe you will.

Clear? :)

And again, Unukalhai has given you superb guidance. I almost wrote nothing at all, because so much has already been said so well!

Gaer
 

starlink

Well-known member
Hi Woof! So much about what you wrote about your father is exactly how my ex-husband was, he had a difficult life, being the eldest, had to look after his younger brother because his mom was a society lady and thought more about herself being presentable than about her kids being happy. They always had nannies, in the far east where he spend his childhood till he was sent to the Jesuites!! at the tender age of 14, abroad, put in a family with very strict rules and frightfully catholic (his mom was, his father not, so she thought that that would be the best for him) .
he was always seen as the "black sheep" of his family and has had to fend for himself from a very young age after he had been kicked out of home.
Very similar situation.

he is a cancerian so i constantly feel like i'm walking on eggshells
So did my children and we ALL are still very careful how we frase our sentences. I now dare to tell him off if he is harsh towards them, then he gets very defensive, but does listen, he always listens to me and asks my advice on everything and anything, also quite interesting really.
He believes strongly in my intuition and when he wants to hire a new employee, he asks me to look at his chart!! Oh man, life is crazy isn't it?

Even though he admits that the Jesuites really had a hand in shaping him intellecually and in the arts, he was terribly unhappy there. Never a loving mom, only saw her during his vacations in August. (so no wonder he does not know how to handle women) His younger brother was sent to a very loving family (both families were friends of the family) and to a normal local school. Still, he hates his mother and hardly ever calls her up. My ex, even though he also dislikes his mother very much, always keeps in touch with her (Cancer). So like you, I totally understand how he became the man he is. Very interesting man, great humour, great storyteller but impossible to live with with those everchanging moods and always wanting to do things on his own, never with me. We still have a very good relationship, I feel no hate or anything like that, just pity him because everybody just left him, me, the kids, most of his friends. He who always criticised me, now admires me LOL!! Told me that to my face.
you will rise above it by understanding why your father is as he is and why it is wrong to be that way. I strongly believe, from what you told us, that you are capable of doing so. Nothing is won by trying to revenge yourself and staying angry; a new life opens up for you if you dont do these things.
Cheers, Star.
 

tikana

Well-known member
I agree with May8Mike

i dont hink you are weak.. i think you are sensitive.. A. you got moon/mars conj sq sun! Sun rules 4th house. father. so tat alone tells me your dad's some reactions are rubbing you in a wrong way
moon trines venus - smooth!
moon is in taurus plus ruler of your chart.

pretty soon pluto will cross into your 7th house BE VERY VERY careful with people entering your life then. They might walk all over you leaving you empty and with unfulfilled promises.. the good side is pluto on des produces intense relationships to a point of an obession

speaking of pluto .... pluto an sun are super strong and in a tight square.. hows ithat professing in your life?
itis good that they are not cardinal

Tik
 

wayne penner

Well-known member
Well first I think it is generous of Unukalhai to spend so much time on this.

However, the question is a bit odd to me. I think we are as weak or strong as we consider ourselves to be, regardless of the chart or what others tell us about ourselves. Strength implies courage, but if you talk to courageous people, or those who have been in critical situations, they will invariably tell you that they were shaking with fear. In fact a fearless man is also a reckless man, and will soon be dead.

I would stop worrying about what other people tell you you are, just be yourself and get on with life.
 

starlink

Well-known member
Hi Tik, just an observation:
the good side is pluto on des produces intense relationships to a point of an obession
I dont think obsessive love is good Tik, it can be extremely destructive at times as well as Pluto conjunct Uranus in opposition to the Ascendant. The Pluto influence will not be so strong now however. Pluto will enter Capricorn on the 27th of January 2008, then goes retrograde again on 2nd of April 2008 when it has reached 1° Capr. So the opposition to the Asc. will probably be felt already. The exact conjunction will only take place on the 3rd of March 2009. What should be noticed is the Inconjunct Pluto will make to Jupiter when he reaches 29° Saggitarius again in the timeperiod between June 15 and July 25 2008. Jupiter is ruler of the intercepted 6th house of health and some health issues could come to light. Much later, when Pluto reaches the opposition to the Asc. and conjunction to Uranus which will be around April 2009 and January 2011, it could well be that some new person will have a strong sudden impact on her life and this could change her view on relationships quite a bit. Pluto will sesquiquadrate her Mars then Sun, oppose her Asc., conjunct Uranus and conjunct her Neptune all in the next 3 to 5 years.Yes, you are right, Woofwoof should be careful letting certain people influence her life and trying to dominate her, Tik is right here. Uranus is ruler of her 9th and 10th so this Pluto could transform her views and believes (9th) on life and society (10th) and certain ideals and what she hoped for in her life (Mars, ruler 11). The Sun rules her 3rd house of communications and school education so there could be some strain as well.
The earlier-on inconjunct to Jupiter could maybe show some health issue coming to light or playing up (Saggitarius is intercepted in 6th house), because an inconjunct is often associated with health. Natal Jupiter opposes Saturn which could show some weakness in the body or also danger of using the wrong medication (or substance abuse) up to bad health habits. Mars is co-ruler 6 in 12 conjunct Moon and Mars sextiles Jupiter. Moon ruler of 2 (selfworth), Jupiter and Chiron in 2 as well, connected in this case with the 6th house (ruler Pluto,co-ruler Mars.) So low self esteem, shown especially by Chiron in this house, could play a role in all health issues. Sun square Pluto, conjunct the 6th AND ruler of 6th shows this as well.

The Kite that SunMoonStar mentions falls in psychic houses 12-8 and 4 and connected to Pluto in own sign probably showing that her talents could well lay in this field. A Kite is potentially creative configuration but has in it the danger that other aspects in the chart could be neglected because of too much concentration on the houses the Kite falls in.

WoofWoof, you wrote that you have too much water. This is not entirely true. Your strongest element is Earth with Moon,Mars & Mercury and your Sun and Venus are in Fire signs. So the Water only comes out in your Ascendant being in Cancer. Cancer is ruled by Moon in EARTH. Planets like Pluto,Uranus, Neptune, Saturn and Jupiter are not personal planets and I give their element less influence in the character unless one of these planets is ruler of the Ascendant, Sun or Moon. What I think is, that the placement of your Grand Trine in waterhouses and Pluto in Scorpio (water) being connected in sextile, forming the KITE, is where your problems come from. You have earth and fire planets but you have Ascendant ruler Moon, your Mars and your Mercury in waterhouses. It is like wanting to stay dry and safe with both feet on the ground (emotionally, action wise and mentally), but forced to swim in deep dark waters that give you this feeling of impotence, of not being able to stand your ground as it were. That's how I see it. The Kite, usually seen as helpful and creative, is in this case a bit problematic if you ask me, even though it has great potential.(your inner strength!). It is clear to me that the Sun inconjunct Saturn plays a huge role in your feelings of inadequacy and Sun and Saturn are representative of the parents in this chart which could have influenced this. Cheers, Star.
 
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