Descendant,do you project or recognise these energies?

Vista

Well-known member
No ones really talked about the "almuten" of the 7th H being of any importance. I spoke to Robert Hand about my natal chart and why I am not finding "the one" at age 40+. He said that even though my 7th house ruler is ruled by Venus and sextiled Mercury and square Uranus, my almuten is Saturn, which is conjunct Mercury and squared by Neptune. Both Venus and almuten Saturn have brought me a lot of crazy relationships as there is a push pull going on in that Venus Square Uranus says "I want to be free," yet Venus and Saturn in general say "I want to be in a relationship." In addition, Saturn the planet of delay is squared by Neptune the planet of confusion; it's no wonder I am not married yet! He said that until I learn to work with both these energies, with one part of me wanting a relationship the other part not wanting to be committed, I will project both onto my partners. In other when one wants a commitment I get bored and dissatisfied and want out, and if the other one doesn't want a commitment I really, really want them. It's very hard to deal with at times because I always seemed to want what I can't have, which works perfectly with these energies. :annoyed:I also seem to attract people with the potential for addiction. Definitely something I have to be very aware of.
 

reedstar

Member
No ones really talked about the "almuten" of the 7th H being of any importance. I spoke to Robert Hand about my natal chart and why I am not finding "the one" at age 40+. He said that even though my 7th house ruler is ruled by Venus and sextiled Mercury and square Uranus, my almuten is Saturn, which is conjunct Mercury and squared by Neptune. Both Venus and almuten Saturn have brought me a lot of crazy relationships as there is a push pull going on in that Venus Square Uranus says "I want to be free," yet Venus and Saturn in general say "I want to be in a relationship." In addition, Saturn the planet of delay is squared by Neptune the planet of confusion; it's no wonder I am not married yet! He said that until I learn to work with both these energies, with one part of me wanting a relationship the other part not wanting to be committed, I will project both onto my partners. In other when one wants a commitment I get bored and dissatisfied and want out, and if the other one doesn't want a commitment I really, really want them. It's very hard to deal with at times because I always seemed to want what I can't have, which works perfectly with these energies. :annoyed:I also seem to attract people with the potential for addiction. Definitely something I have to be very aware of.

This is a wonderful description of the Nep/Sat/Ven dilemma - I have Nep/Sat sextile Venus with a square from Ura in there as well, and experience exactly the same phenomenon that you describe - that push me/pull you. You've put it into words beautifully. Something definitely to work with. And I've never heard the term almuten, so I've learned a great deal from your post. Thank you.:)
 

starlink

Well-known member
Reedstar, the Almuten is the planet with the most essential dignity in that sign (the housecusp). When Venus in the above example is quite weak, then some traditional astrologers look at the Almuten of that sign instead, and see if that one is maybe better placed and aspected in the chart then Venus. If so, they choose to continue looking at that one. This is especially used in Horary astrology.
 

JSWright101

Active member
I recognize these qualities partially because by path of rulerships almost all roads lead back to Saturn in Capricorn on the descendant conjunct Neptune and Uranus (the Uranus is specifically extremely tight with the descendant with a just as tight opposition to Chiron on the ascendant).

Let's just say my relationships are complicated and few and far between.
 

WeAre

Well-known member
I recognize these qualities partially because by path of rulerships almost all roads lead back to Saturn in Capricorn on the descendant conjunct Neptune and Uranus (the Uranus is specifically extremely tight with the descendant with a just as tight opposition to Chiron on the ascendant).

Let's just say my relationships are complicated and few and far between.

wow. i'm not sure how to translate that , after only brief registration, but what you describe is interesting , for sure.
seems saturn would kinda ground/restrict the 'delusion' of neptune. ... and ground the 'upheaval' of uranus as well.
guess, saturn's placement, i'm thinking, is rather beneficial .... maybe demands the 'lighter'/'positive' aspects of neptune(multi-dimensional awareness, natural faith in flow, connectedness)
and uranus (originality, inventiveness, scientific vision)

i imagine your 'partnerships' really do go quite deep.

--to me, these placements all feel very foundational for a very aquarian life experience----- drawing interesting/unusual individuals to you, which hold 'lessons' from which to evolve.
the cancer ascendant adds an interesting need to nurture...
...
....... my ascendant's cancer too , so I know... and have learned not to deny this "mothering"nature.

what degree is your asc. and desc? .....
i'm curious how close pluto is to transitting it... and these planets.
(pluto's in retrograde at about 2 degrees capricorn right now)
.... my descendent is 4 degrees cap. ,
i'm super curious who else is experiencing this similar transit-what they have to say.
 

JSWright101

Active member
^ It's definitely a very interesting chart. Voila, you can see it too...
 

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WeAre

Well-known member
transitting pluto is literally conjunct your descendant!
with regard to SELF and PARTNERSHIP,
how would you describe transformations that are taking place?
.... your north node might have some affect (sextile in your 10th house)
........ so perhaps "work" and a certain path calling you may be involved.

....subconscious healing from chiron opposite in your 12th house??

if you relate, can voice, and care to share,
I'm ALL ears
 

astropsychologist

Well-known member
I too have :uranus: in the 7th, with :scorpio: on the DSC...so not looking for much...just someone who will give me intensity and freedom at the same time ;)

I have such complex relationships along with a confusing attitude toward them. The relationship sections of my chart are affected by almost all of the planets!.... :venus: is in a T-square with :saturn: and :neptune: and it's trine :pluto:. And then :uranus: is in the 7th square a stellium in the 5th :)moon: :mars: :jupiter: :northnode: ) and the 5th house ruler ( :sun: ) is conjunct my ASC. So my attitude towards relationships is in a constant state of flux. When I'm not in a relationship I idealize the notion of merging with another, but when I am in a relationship, I prefer to be as independent as possible. My last boyfriend had :neptune: in the 7th, this caused so much trouble for us, as he believed that 1+1=1, and me with :uranus: in the 7th believed (at the time) that 1+1=2.

In regards to whether or not I recognise or project my DSC and 7th house planets...I definitely used to project when I was younger and attracted a lot of intense, magnetic men who wouldn't commit, as I get older I find I'm owning those energies more and I'm really loving finding ways to combine those 2 radically different energies, I guess even being an astrologer is a good use of a :uranus: and :scorpio: combo!
 

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reedstar

Member
I definitely used to project when I was younger and attracted a lot of intense, magnetic men who wouldn't commit, as I get older I find I'm owning those energies more and I'm really loving finding ways to combine those 2 radically different energies, I guess even being an astrologer is a good use of a and combo!

I love how you describe what can't be an easy mix! Bravo for finding ways to embrace these powerful energies. You must be a great astrologer!

I so agree with you on how the 7th. etc. tends to be projected when we are younger - when we perhaps don't fully own our chart yet. To embrace and explore the energy that is brought to us by our relationships and to own our contribution rather than "blame" the Other is really what it's all about - becoming whole, gathering together the bits that are otherwise rather fragmented.

What is curious is that we perhaps need to be in relationship to discover the Other side of ourselves - the 1st/7th, and especially the AS/DS axis is a really important area of the chart for self-knowledge.

So in answer to the original post - I'd say both - we do project until we recognize. My two-bits worth...
 
I have :pisces: on the DSC....with Mars In Pisces :conjunct: DSC Pisces. (Mars Inconjunct ASC). Plus,I have Leo in the 12th,making me strongly Neptunian/Piscian.

If you have mars is pisces conj Desc it cannot at the same time be quincunxed Asc it must be opposite :whistling:

Do you 'make sacrifices' for your partners? cos of neptune ruling 7th then?
 

Damo Mayo

Active member
Virgo DSC, Mars conj DSC very tight. I DON'T suffer fools gladly. I will nit pick and nag and lose my otherwise very stable temper (moon in Taurus) very quickly if people miss fine details and don't perform tasks exactly as I expect!
 

waybread

Well-known member
Virgo DSC, Mars conj DSC very tight. I DON'T suffer fools gladly. I will nit pick and nag and lose my otherwise very stable temper (moon in Taurus) very quickly if people miss fine details and don't perform tasks exactly as I expect!

Damo, was your message tongue-in-cheek? I am always mystified by the statement, "I don't suffer fools gladly." It implies certain power dynamics in a relationship that can become mean-spirited. Is someone a fool all the time, or just when the dominant person gets annoyed? A true friend or SO is someone who does suffer our foibles gladly. You know the old Connie Francis song, "Everybody's somebody's fool..."

But the reason why I thought you injected some humour is your lampoon of Virgo.
 

Damo Mayo

Active member
You are very wise indeed waybread! I was merely pointing out areas where my patience can be a bit short, especially at work. It is, as you imply, something of a personal failing and a challenge for me to overcome. I guess all Mars in Virgo natives (and perhaps Sun in Virgo natives too!!) could do well to relax a bit at times and not get so stressed over things that don't really matter. As for the lampoon of Virgo- yes, I thought it was rather amusing myself when I read it back for a second time. The worrying thing being that it is actually a rather accurate depiction of my behaviour sometimes, especially at work, which could be a big part of the reason why I got passed over for promotion recently. Saturn in the 6th could be another reason perhaps? :wink:
 

waybread

Well-known member
Hey, thanks for your kind reply. I feared I was too judgmental. Whoah--did I say judgemental? Virgo rising and Saturn in Virgo here! With Pisces on my DC, I am apt to see my husband as embodying negative Piscean traits from time to time, even though he has no planets in that sign
 

divine g

Banned
Hi Waybread,
Just curious as to what negative Piscean traits your husband exhibits? I also have my DC progressing to Pisces now, and I have a Pisces significant other who seems very confused about our status and is sending mixed signals, confusing me. She definitely is embodying the 2 fish swimming in opposite directions. She cant seem to make up her mind, one fish says of our relationship that she's "over it", yet the other one just called friday night(drunk) at 4am, after a week of playing hide and go seek(elusive Pisces). Originally she was the one who wanted the relationship, but out of the blue she claims to have moved on. My progressed moon is at 29.5 Aquarius on the DC, so it seems like this is a critical point.

One thing I think I 've projected on her is my own Uranian male tendency to be open to new experience, so I keep thinking she'll hop into bed with the first exciting thing that comes along. I found out the other day I was totally wrong. Projecting can be a scary thing. She went to work 2 hours early one day, and when I texted her she said she was on her way to work. I could have sworn she was seeing someone else and was going to get a quickie before work. And I was totally wrong. I called her job, and she was there(yes, I have a bit of Scorpio's possessiveness, obsessiveness, but so does she!!! Her 8th house Cancer Moon possessiveness/clinginess is what drove me away at 1st)

What can I say, love makes you do crazy things. But now with Neptune going to rule my DC pretty soon, (I think it's already in effect), I think I'm in for a really confusing, turbulent couple of years relationship-wise. Does anyone else have Neptune ruling their 7th? I guess it's good for projecting fantasies, but you can also see things that aren't there..(Neptune ruling illusions)

ps I originally ended our relationship due to her drinking, but Im learning compassion and trying to be supportive. Who knows what this Pisces full moon friday will bring..Uranus is also conjuncting her sun, so as always, i can only expect the unexpected with her
 
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WeAre

Well-known member
I love how you describe what can't be an easy mix! Bravo for finding ways to embrace these powerful energies. You must be a great astrologer!

I so agree with you on how the 7th. etc. tends to be projected when we are younger - when we perhaps don't fully own our chart yet. To embrace and explore the energy that is brought to us by our relationships and to own our contribution rather than "blame" the Other is really what it's all about - becoming whole, gathering together the bits that are otherwise rather fragmented.

What is curious is that we perhaps need to be in relationship to discover the Other side of ourselves - the 1st/7th, and especially the AS/DS axis is a really important area of the chart for self-knowledge.

So in answer to the original post - I'd say both - we do project until we recognize. My two-bits worth...


Hi reedstar.
I would love for you to expand what you mean.
my descendant is capricorn.
fidelity..loyalty . .... monogamy . ... has always been of huge priority in my ability to value and appreciate my partnerships.
nowadays (i really do believe) ... these values have become more and more experimented with ... physical/sexual boundaries.
... therefore, I have taken a great deal of time and energy into evaluating whether my outlook is outdated, ..or aligned with my honest integrity.
Always, it goes back to me believing I'm simply an old fashioned kinda gal ... and it runs deep. I lose attraction when sexual infidelity appears in a relationship...period. physical attraction is fragile...I strongly believe.

So... what exactly do you mean about projecting dsc. energies until we recognize them?
do you have the opinion that i would outgrow (post 30 yrs) these 'traditional' capricorn ways of partnership?

I look forward to your response.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Hi Waybread,
Just curious as to what negative Piscean traits your husband exhibits? I also have my DC progressing to Pisces now, and I have a Pisces significant other who seems very confused about our status and is sending mixed signals, thus confusing me.

I think there are two ways to look at this. One is that the SO objectively exhibits the traits of one's DC [whether or not the SO actually has any placements in this sign.] The other is that we project onto our SO the negative qualities that we associate with that sign. It is a ticklish thing, because we probably aren't the best judges of which it is--or whether it is both.

With Virgo rising [natally or by progression] we might pair someone's critical, analytical, fault-finding personality with the SO's less developed observation skills or escapism of some sort (Pisces). With my Virgo rising, I think my husband drinks more than he should, though thankfully he is now working hard to cut back. One day at a time.This seems objective enough, but what is hard for me to see in myself is how I sometimes apply Virgo's worst qualities to him. Nagging someone with a drinking problem is about the worst thing one can do, because it turns the drinking problem into a test of wills and control. I am fairly untidy myself, but somehow my housekeeping standards are correct and his are too lax.

We can see this sort of thing happening with other AC/DC signs. Libra rising finds her "Aries-type" BF too independent and inconsiderate. Cancer rising finds his "Capricorn-type" GF too emotionally remote and materialistic. Then power struggles ensue, which will kill off the love and affection in a relationship faster than anything.

I don't think we can change the fundamentals of our AC/DC dynamic. But we can look at our own foibles first and foremost, and not try to manipulate the SO out of our own projections.
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
I don't think we can change the fundamentals of our AC/DC dynamic. But we can look at our own foibles first and foremost, and not try to manipulate the SO out of our own projections.
I like the way you have pointed out - using your own relationship as an example - how it is the projection - from us to them - works in a relationship, based upon our own DC, rather than anything about the SO. I think that is a very important point to make.

For instance, there's another thread somewhere about Cancer rising people, and a couple of us happened to mention the tendency towards choosing partners who are Capricornian/Saturnian in nature - older, steady, stoic, reliable. In a couple of women I know who have Cancer rising, it is the very reason they chose their men - older, to `replace' a missing father in their lives - that they have ended up dumping on that very same partner, with comments like, "He acts like he's my dad!", or "He's so predictable and bo-oring!!"

I have a Cancer DC, and I experienced my ex as being so elusive and evasive - using avoidance, like a crab moving sideways :ninja: - during a discussion about `where our relationship is going..:w00t:.'. I have long since discovered that the best way to get rid of a man is to suggest that you need to discuss the state of the relationship!!!!!
 

neko senshi

Active member
I have Sagittarius on the descendant, and Neptune in Sag in the 7th house. I am practically in love with fantasy, very Neptunian. I have Jupiter in Virgo in the 4th. I don't know if that has anything to do with the fact that I love my mom as much as I do.
 
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