What defines the functions, themes and influences of a new planet?

Re: Modern Rulership. What defines a ruler?

I don't have much time today to exchange more opinions, but I'd like to thank you all for the answers and for sharing your opinions.

CapAquaPis

I use Uranus as the Aquarius "significator". I agree with you that they both have similar qualities.

I have never read about Ouranus (Uranus) as the God of Liberty, Sky and Innovation. Could you share with us a book or link where we can read it?

Aldebaran

I agree that the best way to understand the functions and influences of a planet over a chart is to see "what happens" as you suggest. But don't you agree that it takes too much time? I mean... How many charts and aspects in it would be necessary to really understand this influence? How could we define certain qualities to planets that have been discovered nowadays?

I like your point, but I think that maybe having other factors to help us defining where we could start would be necessary. Having other parameters would give us some suggestions to choose which of the thousand "themes" a planet could be related to. Analysing anything necessarily demands us to have a start spot. We do need to have a theory to be analysed. If we don't have the parameters to choose the "themes" the planet could rule... How could we really hit the target? I mean... If we don't aim anything...How could we hit the right suggestion? And how could we aim a good target without any idea about what we want?

Re: Modern Rulership. What defines a ruler?

The Astronomers name the new Planets and asteroids, and Astrologers, for the most part, go along with them and make the archetypal connections the Astronomers dismiss as fanciful and unnecessary. So, why should Astrologers trust the names? "Synchronicity" is a powerful concept, and Astrologers have to rely on that, as well as their own intuitive and analytical abilities, and empirical experience. I, myself, have had to make an adjustment when comes to , but I concur with the naming of Neptune and Pluto. The "mythological" connections and applications to Astrology are extremely important to me, and "Uranus" was close, but somewhat incorrect [IMO]. I also prefer the Greek versions of the archetypes to the Roman in most cases regarding the Greco-Roman religions.

Re: Modern Rulership. What defines a ruler?

And here's why the Moon is the "ruler planet" of the zodiac's 4th sign: Cancer.

1. The companion satellite (the only one) of our planet, Earth - about 250,000 miles from earth and we see only one side (2,500 miles across).

2. Cancer, the crab, rules the seas, as much the Moon rules the tides and human women's menstrual cycles (every 29 days on average), the Moon does orbit around the earth every 29 days, thus gave us the word "month" in our calendar. 12 solar months in 365 days, but 13 lunar cycles in 355 days.

3. In the Oculus Mondi - the moment natal chart of man, the world and astrology itself, the Moon was thought to been in 15' Cancer, Sun in 15' Leo, Mercury in 1' Virgo, Venus in 1' Libra, Mars in 15' Scorpio, Jupiter in 15' Sagittarius, and Saturn in 15' Capricorn. Possible ascendant note 1' Cancer.

4. Perhaps the ancients identified the Moon with astrological influence in the age of Virgo - the constellation depicts a mother, maiden or virgin woman.

Re: Modern Rulership. What defines a ruler?

CapAquaPis said:

And here's why the Moon is the "ruler planet" of the zodiac's 4th sign: Cancer.

1. The companion satellite (the only one) of our planet, Earth - about 250,000 miles from earth and we see only one side (2,500 miles across).

2. Cancer, the crab, rules the seas, as much the Moon rules the tides and human women's menstrual cycles (every 29 days on average), the Moon does orbit around the earth every 29 days, thus gave us the word "month" in our calendar. 12 solar months in 365 days, but 13 lunar cycles in 355 days.

3. In the Oculus Mondi - the moment natal chart of man, the world and astrology itself, the Moon was thought to been in 15' Cancer, Sun in 15' Leo, Mercury in 1' Virgo, Venus in 1' Libra, Mars in 15' Scorpio, Jupiter in 15' Sagittarius, and Saturn in 15' Capricorn. Possible ascendant note 1' Cancer.

4. Perhaps the ancients identified the Moon with astrological influence in the age of Virgo - the constellation depicts a mother, maiden or virgin woman.

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I use the Heliocentric cipher, and get the same result--the two Solstitial rulers, the Moon on the reference-orbit (Earth's, since the knowledge gained will be applied to the Earth-centered Zodiac), and Saturn, as far away from it as the limiting factor (naked-eye recognition of a moving Planet) will allow. In Geocentric coordinates, in the Northern Hemisphere, where Tropical-astrology developed, the farther away Tropic is that of Capricorn.

Re: Modern Rulership. What defines a ruler?

The Heliocentric cipher is instantly revealed by a fixed, fiery Sun ruling the Fixed-fire Sign, Leo. The Cardinal-signs are positional, because we use them Tropically to position the Sign-boundaries. So, the other obvious connection is the equivalency (from "Equinoctial") of the positions of Venus and Mars relative to Earth's orbit--both adjacent-- but, on opposite sides. The color of Mars suggests Fire, and the brightness of Venus is about its atmosphere (air).

Re: Modern Rulership. What defines a ruler?

Nothing complicated about Moon and Sun ruling one, and the Planets ruling two: Moon and Sun move in only one direction, while the Planets move in two, from the Geocentric perspective.

Re: Modern Rulership. What defines a ruler?

Another thing on the Oculus Mondi chart: Mercury doesn't go over 30' from the sun and Venus not over 50'. Mercury is determined to rule Virgo, Venus with Libra. In the houses, the 9th or 10th are ruled by the sun (I thought it would be 5th under Leo) - in noon time ascendants to find out the rising if no birth time is given for a natal chart, the sun is always in 9th or 10th - the moon moves around in any house. And the Oculus Mondi strictly uses traditional, not modern astrology - there's no Uranus, Neptune and Pluto placements.

Re: Modern Rulership. What defines a ruler?

david starling said:

The Astronomers name the new Planets and asteroids, and Astrologers, for the most part, go along with them and make the archetypal connections the Astronomers dismiss as fanciful and unnecessary. So, why should Astrologers trust the names? "Synchronicity" is a powerful concept, and Astrologers have to rely on that, as well as their own intuitive and analytical abilities, and empirical experience. I, myself, have had to make an adjustment when comes to , but I concur with the naming of Neptune and Pluto. The "mythological" connections and applications to Astrology are extremely important to me, and "Uranus" was close, but somewhat incorrect [IMO]. I also prefer the Greek versions of the archetypes to the Roman in most cases regarding the Greco-Roman religions.

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So you think that we would get the same results using either Greek or Roman names?
It sounds interesting for me... Maybe we could also consider changing some names for Astrology, since it's not a part of "Astronomy Knowledge" anymore.

Besides, I find much important as well to relate the functions of the planets with their "myth names", but I think that "synchronicity" may be a little misleading parameter for us to rely on.

Maybe a good method to relate planets and their possible names would be:

1. studying the most important events around the world and specially around the zone (maybe the country) in which the planet was discovered by the decade/period it was discovered.

2. Listing these events and find some similarities among them would give us a hint about where we could start looking for a "myth" who matches these events listed.

3. With some chosen "Myths" which were related to the events of that period we could select keywords that stand out from the Myth itself.

4. Define what would be the functions, influences and themes of the planet by the keywords and the important facts and characteristics of the Myth and the events of the Discovery period.

5. After all that, we could analyse some charts and progressions of different periods of the History and tell if the functions, themes and influences make sense.

6. We could also analyse some personal charts to see if the aspects between the new planet and other ones make sense according to the defined functions, themes and influences.

I've just thought about these method. I haven't even think too much to propos that. So...Don't take it too serious...But maybe it could be a good start.

What do you all think about it?
Trusting "synchronicity" sounds a little easy-lazy method to define anything for me. (Not a personal critics, by the way).

Re: Modern Rulership. What defines a ruler?

The Romans got most of their gods and goddesses from the Greeks, and changed the names but kept most of their characteristics, adding some of their own. There are other ancient cultures with similar deities. I like the "archetypes" idea, that they fit categories. For example, Osiris of Ancient-Egypt is in the same category as Hades/Pluto of Ancient-Greece. No surprise, since the Greek culture travelled a lot and learned by observing. Pluto was actually a Greek version of Osiris, and from what I've seen, modern-Astrologers are using the Egyptian version more than the Greek. The Romans always looked for the God of another culture they could equate with their God, Jupiter, so there was a continuity in the Ancient-world. The insistence on One God, with one name, that EVERYONE in the world had to worship to the exclusion of all others, "or else", is a symptom of a new Age, beginning around 400 A.C.E. (or, A.D., since it began as a Church dating method). We're still in that Age, prior to the onset of the Aquarian Age, which means we're still "in the Dark", regarding what's really going on when it comes to these Astrological influences. For now, we have to rely on the visionary abilities of those very Ancient-cultures to a great extent.

Re: Modern Rulership. What defines a ruler?

aldebaran said:

DrFarr,

For predictive, do you use Saturn/Jupiter for Aquarius/Pisces or the modern? If not the modern, do you find Saturn/Jupiter more akin to Aquarius/Pisces "color" (using the very helpful metaphor), or do you have other criterium for doing so in predictive?

ps: I finally understood fixed stars a little better, and now I see them as really indispensable.

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I use the traditional planets for the signs Aquarius, Pisces and Scorpio; HOWEVER, depending upon the circumstances and nature of the particular chart in question, I will also use the modern planets as CO-SIGNIFICATORS for those signs; in horary (Ankara) I use the traditional planets as connected with the signs Aquarius, Pisces and Scorpio...

Re: What defines a ruler?

The chart ruler is the sign on the ascendant and its planet.

i.e. Libra rising, Venus is ruler. Aries rising, Mars is ruler. etc...

Then the aspects that planet makes elsewhere is the full story.
If you have a planet in its natural house and sign that is very strong also.
The sun and moon are very important as the main components of your chart along with your north node.

Re: What defines a ruler?

Claire19 said:

The chart ruler is the sign on the ascendant and its planet.

i.e. Libra rising, Venus is ruler. Aries rising, Mars is ruler. etc...

Then the aspects that planet makes elsewhere is the full story.
If you have a planet in its natural house and sign that is very strong also.
The sun and moon are very important as the main components of your chart along with your north node.

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I think the question goes much deeper, and probably has no definitive answer. You have provided a solid description of how to determine the most important Planet in the Chart. But....why are you so certain that Venus rules Libra, and Mars rules Aries? In this Thread, the Lore itself is being questioned, as well as the generally accepted Modern-rulerships of the three outermost Planets, and the names given to them by Modern-astronomers. Very uncomfortable questions!

Re: What defines a ruler?

david starling said:

I think the question goes much deeper, and probably has no definitive answer. You have provided a solid description of how to determine the most important Planet in the Chart. But....why are you so certain that Venus rules Libra, and Mars rules Aries? In this Thread, the Lore itself is being questioned, as well as the generally accepted Modern-rulerships of the three outermost Planets, and the names given to them by Modern-astronomers. Very uncomfortable questions!

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Yes! That's exactly my point, David Starling!

I know that the ruler of a chart is generally said to be the ruler (significator) of the rising sign. But how do we know if the ruler of Libra is really Venus?

Re: What defines a ruler?

Well... I think we've already got some answers to define the functions of a planet. Some say that we have to trust the lores, some say we have to look at the old texts, some say we have to rely on the simultanity that makes astronomers give "right" names to new discovered celestial bodies, some look at the myths, some look at the astrophysical characteristics of the bodies, some pay attention to the events which have happened in the occasion of the discovery. We'll probably never know what is the right method to define the functions of the planets in Astrology.
Personally, I still think the most of what are believed is accepted arbitrarily, with no or jus a few rational reasons. I like patterns and I still wait for some answers for those problems that I brought to the light in this topic.

Thanks for the participation and for the patience to read all of this hahaha