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Houses & cusps For discussions on houses and house cusps (i.e. planets on angles, house stelliums and so on)


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  #1  
Unread 01-17-2019, 08:38 PM
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Questions about 11th house money

If 11th house money is big money we get from our careers such as bonuses and pensions as opposed to regular checks, what would 11th house planets and the cusp sign say about that money? Would it show how we handle the money or is the way we handle money exclusively a 2nd house thing? Would it show something else?

I've been looking at Whitney Houston's chart recently and see that she had Capricorn on the 11th house and Saturn in the 12th. And I remember reading that her father (Saturn?) sued her (12th sorrow and loses?) for a large amount of money (11th).

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Unread 01-17-2019, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonlightSonata View Post
If 11th house money is big money we get from our careers such as bonuses and pensions as opposed to regular checks, what would 11th house planets and the cusp sign say about that money? Would it show how we handle the money or is the way we handle money exclusively a 2nd house thing? Would it show something else?

I've been looking at Whitney Houston's chart recently and see that she had Capricorn on the 11th house and Saturn in the 12th. And I remember reading that her father (Saturn?) sued her (12th sorrow and loses?) for a large amount of money (11th).
Lawsuits are 7th house matters.

Doesn't matter who brings the suit or what its outcome. The central issue is the lawsuit itself.

Last edited by greybeard; 01-17-2019 at 11:42 PM.
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Unread 01-17-2019, 11:59 PM
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Re: Questions about 11th house money

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Originally Posted by MoonlightSonata View Post


If 11th house money is big money we get from our careers such as bonuses and pensions as opposed to regular checks, what would 11th house planets and the cusp sign say about that money? Would it show how we handle the money or is the way we handle money exclusively a 2nd house thing? Would it show something else?

I've been looking at Whitney Houston's chart recently and see that she had Capricorn on the 11th house and Saturn in the 12th. And I remember reading that her father (Saturn?) sued her (12th sorrow and loses?) for a large amount of money (11th).
HOUSES OF WEALTH

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Unread 01-19-2019, 03:15 AM
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Re: Questions about 11th house money

We wouldn't normally associate the 11th house with money, but in a turned house system it makes sense to think of the 11th as the 2nd house from the 10th house of career. Whether this would represent "big money" or not would depend on the career and the condition of the 11th house.

Generally the 2nd house indicates your personal finances and the 8th house indicates money that you "share" with other people, such as inheritances, investments, life insurance, and money from a spouse.
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Unread 01-19-2019, 03:29 AM
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Re: Questions about 11th house money

hopes and dreams
most people want money in their life for freedom and security and sharing and making better for themselves and others

ha! doesn't sound much like Saturn on the front end, but it does on the back end.

this is why Taurus and Aquarius always defy the square rule - they have the same intent at the end of the day - stability defined by freedom as they understand it.
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Unread 01-19-2019, 01:23 PM
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Re: Questions about 11th house money

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy View Post

I would like an understanding in traditionalist ways.
How do we delineate wealth in a horoscope?
Is it possible to find where the wealth will be made?
How about the timing or loss?
Where could I find this information?
We have a modernist board AS WELL AS a traditional board
and then
the rest of our forum is composed of GENERAL ASTROLOGY THREADS
so
whether a member is using Vedic astrology
Chinese astrology, Western Sidereal Astrology, Modernist Astrology Traditional Astrology
ALL those are welcomed on our General Astrology threads
comment on our GENERAL ASTROLOGY BOARD is for ALL any astrological methodology


and so
because

your question is posted on GENERAL ASTROLOGY BOARD
the following comment is from a traditional perspective
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post



There are three main lines of thinking.

Ptolemy uses the Lot of Fortune, the Almuten of the Lot Fortune and any Planets that aspect the Almuten of the Lot of Fortune. The Almuten of anything is simply that Planet that has the greatest amount of Dignity at a particular point on the chart.


33°24' is the same as 3° Taurus 24'. Venus is the Sign Ruler and Term Ruler, while Moon is the Exaltation Ruler. In a Day Chart, Venus would be the Sect Triplicity Ruler, so Venus has the greatest Dignity in that point. However, in a Night Chart, Moon is the Sect Ruler of Earth Signs and so Venus and Moon would each have two dignities.

In that case, which one, Moon or Venus aspects that point? The one that does is the Almuten. If neither aspect it, or they are equally close in aspect, then take the one that is in the correct facing, and if neither are, then take the one that is closer in degrees.

Sometimes you have multiple points, like the Almuten of Marriage. That is the Planet that rules the Lot of Marriage, Venus, and the Sun for women or Moon for men. The Planet that has the greatest Dignity in those three points is the Planet that actually rules marriage in that chart, and so when you did your Profections and Solar Returns, you would be looking at the Almuten of Marriage to give you hints that marriage is possible, then you would look at Primary Directions (using the Almuten) to determine the exact date (since transits are guaranteed to fail).

Ptolemy says the quadrant the Almuten is located will tell you roughly when in life someone will gain/lose wealth, and directed the any Planet that afflicts the Almuten of Wealth will tell you when they'll lose it.

Others of the Hellenistic group, the Romans, Persians and some of the Medieval ones use the Almuten of the 2nd House cusp, Ruler 2nd House, Jupiter (the general significator of wealth), and the Lot of Wealth (aka Lot of Substance or Lot of Possessions) which is ASC + 2nd House Cusp - 2nd House Ruler.

From that point they follow Ptolemy. Really important are Planets that afflict the Almuten of Wealth and from where. For example, a square, is it ten Houses away (a Dexter square) or four Houses away (a Sinister square). Dexter aspects (Dexter sextiles, trines and squares are more powerful than Sinister sextiles, trines and squares), and also is the Planet that squares (or opposes) the Almuten Angular or elevated above the Almuten.

The Almuten will give you hints at how you acquire whatever wealth you might get, through your own labor, through inheritance, through luck, through your own wit and cunning and skill, through arts and crafts and other Venusian things and so on, through leadership and command ability (like running your own business or running someone else's business) or other Martian things and so on.

That method is much better than Ptolemy's (who had a peculiar bias against Greek Lots) and when you start looking at a lot of charts, you'll see that the Lot of Fortune has little to do with wealth, rather it is about the Native's general fortune in life and the good and bad that happens to them.

Another method that is not as complex but worth the effort is that of the later Medievals, like Bonatti and Lily.

Here, you're looking at the the area 5° before the 2nd House Cusp up to 5° before the 3rd House Cusp. You consider any Planets in the region, plus the 2nd House Ruler and the Planet that rules any intercepted Sign in the region. So if the 2nd House Cusp is 15° Taurus and the 3rd House Cusp is 22° Gemini, you'd be looking at the region between 10° Taurus in the 1st House up to 17° Gemini and you'd look at both Venus and Mercury who rule Taurus and Gemini, plus any Planets in that region.

They also want you to look at Jupiter and the Lot of Fortune and any Planets that aspect Jupiter or the Lot of Fortune.

They pay more attention to the condition of the Planets, so, for example Jupiter as the general significator of wealth should be Angular, Direct, in Dignity, preferably in Sagittarius, Pisces, or Cancer and if not then in his own Triplicity or Term, Oriental, Diurnal and not in square or opposition to Mercury, Sun, Mars or Saturn and not Combust (and that's true for any Planet).

What you don't want to see is Jupiter in Capricorn, Gemini or Virgo, or Retrograde or Peregrine, Combust, Cadent, Occidental, Nocturnal in a Day Chart or other things like that, and especially not in square or opposition to a Malefic or Accidental Malefic (like Sun or Mercury).
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Unread 01-24-2019, 08:17 PM
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Re: Questions about 11th house money

In certain circumstances the 11th house can represent money (in a specific chart.)

But first: the money we have and make is usually represented by the 2nd house, Venus, Jupiter - or from general "success" a gathering of planets on the MC.

MOney made through children or creative activities (hobbies, arts, music, etc) might....might show up ALSO in the 11th house.

Money made through marriage or partnerships is represented by planets in the 8th house. And inheritances....8th house. OPM...other people's money.

BUT mostly it's the house of community "values" which might end up (as planets) in the 11th. Also money gathered in community or "club" money.... money collected for a community project, a charity project run by an organization or charity that begins in a community....money from the dues of a social club....this type of thing. Money spent in social groups.
The 11th house also is the house "of the future". Our GOALS. The energy there usually is used to achieve goals.

POssibly....possibly money won through gambling....or even the "things acquired by the money" won gambling or investing (gambling in the stock market.) Although the actual "stock market" is 8th house. OPM- other people's money.

Lawsuits, as mentioned above is 7th house. The money awarded in the lawsuit is usually found in the 8th house (other people's money.)

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Last edited by Lin; 01-24-2019 at 08:25 PM.
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Unread 08-01-2019, 06:54 PM
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Re: Questions about 11th house money

Thanks, everyone.
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Unread 08-24-2019, 01:27 PM
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Re: Questions about 11th house money

What about part of fortune?
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Unread 08-24-2019, 11:54 PM
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Re: Questions about 11th house money

The 11th as a house of money is a transplant from the Vedic tradition. It is not proper to Western astrology.

The 2nd portrays "fluid and dependable resources at hand".

Every house in the chart is 2nd to some other, so in that role shows what the resources of that other house may be (not necessarily money) when interpretation gets down to tiny details. Normally not needed.
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Unread 08-25-2019, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
The 11th as a house of money is a transplant from the Vedic tradition. It is not proper to Western astrology.

The 2nd portrays "fluid and dependable resources at hand".

Every house in the chart is 2nd to some other, so in that role shows what the resources of that other house may be (not necessarily money) when interpretation gets down to tiny details. Normally not needed.
Hey greybeard, what do u mean every house in chart is 2nd to some other?
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Unread 08-25-2019, 03:13 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Originally Posted by Hkk View Post
Hey greybeard, what do u mean every house in chart is 2nd to some other?
What I mean is,
for example, the 5th is 2nd to the 4th.

The 12th is 2nd to the 11th, and represents "the friend's money".

You will meet this in horary art. It is sometimes applied to natal astrology.

My brother is found in my 3rd house. Within my chart, the cusp of the 3rd is treated as his Ascendant. If I want to know about my brother's wife, I look to his 7th, which is my 9th.

Last edited by greybeard; 08-25-2019 at 03:29 AM.
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Unread 08-25-2019, 11:52 AM
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Re: Questions about 11th house money

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
What I mean is,
for example, the 5th is 2nd to the 4th.

The 12th is 2nd to the 11th, and represents "the friend's money".

You will meet this in horary art. It is sometimes applied to natal astrology.

My brother is found in my 3rd house. Within my chart, the cusp of the 3rd is treated as his Ascendant. If I want to know about my brother's wife, I look to his 7th, which is my 9th.
The 11th house is the money I make from my job?
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Unread 08-25-2019, 11:57 AM
Scherzy Scherzy is offline
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Re: Questions about 11th house money

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
What I mean is,
for example, the 5th is 2nd to the 4th.

The 12th is 2nd to the 11th, and represents "the friend's money".

You will meet this in horary art. It is sometimes applied to natal astrology.

My brother is found in my 3rd house. Within my chart, the cusp of the 3rd is treated as his Ascendant. If I want to know about my brother's wife, I look to his 7th, which is my 9th.
And I have to ask something to you..
Ruler of the 8th house (saturn) in 11 th house.
and squaring neptune whis is in 8.th house
what does it mean ,Greybeard?
poor spouse?
what are the indicators of rich spouse?

My last question:
my second house ruler is cancer is in on the descendant sagittarius.
it trines my sun,jupiter whic are in 11.th house.
It means I will dependant with others for money?
thank you
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Unread 08-25-2019, 12:56 PM
Hkk Hkk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
What I mean is,
for example, the 5th is 2nd to the 4th.

The 12th is 2nd to the 11th, and represents "the friend's money".

You will meet this in horary art. It is sometimes applied to natal astrology.

My brother is found in my 3rd house. Within my chart, the cusp of the 3rd is treated as his Ascendant. If I want to know about my brother's wife, I look to his 7th, which is my 9th.
Ok I get this now. Thanks Greybeard once again. Learning new things everyday!
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