Is it true traditional astrologers exclude modern planets?
- Thread starter Michael
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Cap
Well-known member
Just to add that the theory of naked eye sunlight reflection from the planets is invention of modern day traditional astrologers. People from the Hellenistic period believed that visual perception is accomlished by eye beams emitted by the eyes. So, if there ever was a theory of reflection, it was about reflection of eye beams emitted from the eyes (I know, it sounds silly), not sunlight.
Ibn al-Haytham (c. 965 – c. 1040) was the first to explain that vision occurs when light bounces on an object and then is directed to one's eyes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Haytham
Cap
Well-known member
Not if your curtains are closed
By that logic, if curtains are closed there would be no astrological influence either (using the theory that planets cast their influence by reflected light seen by naked eye).
Further, blind person could never be astrologically influenced.
The question is, are eagles and hawks influenced by Uranus and Neptune because they can see them by their naked eyes?
Darius said:
Western Hermeticism was not created in the renaissance. It's much older than that, it goes back to ancient Greece, where the Corpus Hermeticum was written. And it's roots are in ancient Egypt.
Robert Schmidt, the founder of Project Hindsight (visit for more information) and lead thinker of the Hellenistic astrology revival has announced Eudoxos of Knidos is the founder of Greek Astrology. Student of Plato and the second greater mathematician in ancient Greece (second only to Archimedes). He will publish his research soon.
Do you know Eudoxos wrote the Corpus Hermeticum (according to Erastosthenes)?
Roman Naturalist Pliny said: "Eudoxos, who has endeavored to show that of all the branches of knowledge the magic art is the most illustrious."
Yes, astrology is a hermetic science and it's founder also started the tradition of western hermeticism.
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david starling
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If it's all right with you, I may use this as one of many empirical correlations to the (Tropical) Age of Sagittarius. Can you tell me the source for the eyebeams idea?
Another correlation is very well known--Apollo as the "most Greek of the gods", and the god of archery. An Age of visionary ability and philosophy.
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Oddity
Well-known member
Greek theory of optics, David. Which may or may not be considered empirical evidence, given what you're trying to prove. Looking at angles and how electricity flows might be more fruitful.
Dirius
Well-known member
The original hermetica is much more related to christianity and the worship of God.
The reinassance hermetic texts are the ones that blended astrology and occultism into it
Dirius said:
The original Hermetica is older than Christianity. It was renaissance Hermeticism that attempted to reconcile both. Have you read the Corpus Hermeticum?
Dirius said:
Reinassance hermetic texts tried to reconcile the wisdom of the ancient world with the Christian religion. With various degrees of success, from the more orthodox Albertus Magnus to the heterodox Henry Cornelius Agrippa.
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david starling
Well-known member
Is the electricity related to the lightning bolts of Zeus (another correlative Greek deity)? I thought Ben Franklin was first to propose that they were electrical. How does looking at angles help as a correlation? Unless it's about Trines relating to the square of 9. But, I thought Sagittarius as the 9th Sign is a Modern idea.
Dirius
Well-known member
In any case for those that claim that the concept of light is a "traditional invention", that is just ignoring the huge amount of literature regarding the subject.
While most of the light concept is expressed in the subtext of astrology, there is plentiful evidence in matters such as the light of the Moon, and how it affects its power, the rays of the Sun which is mentioned all around the ancient texts about how it affects the other planets, beholding and casting of rays which is the principle that we call "aspects", and the luminosity of the fixed stars, with the brighter ones being more influentil than those that are dimmer.
So I'll say again what I said before, if you claim that light does not matter, that is your business and we don't really care, but if you use concepts such as combustion, aspects, or Moon phases, then you are just being a hypocrite.
But then again if you believe aspects are nothing more than geometrical shapes int he sky (they are not), or that pluto is more influential than the Moon, I can understand why you would think light does not matter.
While most of the light concept is expressed in the subtext of astrology, there is plentiful evidence in matters such as the light of the Moon, and how it affects its power, the rays of the Sun which is mentioned all around the ancient texts about how it affects the other planets, beholding and casting of rays which is the principle that we call "aspects", and the luminosity of the fixed stars, with the brighter ones being more influentil than those that are dimmer.
So I'll say again what I said before, if you claim that light does not matter, that is your business and we don't really care, but if you use concepts such as combustion, aspects, or Moon phases, then you are just being a hypocrite.
But then again if you believe aspects are nothing more than geometrical shapes int he sky (they are not), or that pluto is more influential than the Moon, I can understand why you would think light does not matter.
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Oddity
Well-known member
Is the electricity related to the lightning bolts of Zeus (another correlative Greek deity)? I thought Ben Franklin was first to propose that they were electrical. How does looking at angles help as a correlation? Unless it's about Trines relating to the square of 9. But, I thought Sagittarius as the 9th Sign is a Modern idea.
How easily does electricity flow at 90 degrees? How about 60 or 120 degrees? Compare.
david starling
Well-known member
I see....a mutable Fire-sign age and the flow of energy. Thanks!
Dirius
Well-known member
There isn't much evidence that sustains it to be much older, given most texts that mention hermetism date from around 1st and 2nd century A.D. They are presumed to be contemporary, and while I agree that it is possible it predates christianity, they both certainly share a gnostic root.
However, the original texts do not include astrology as part of its knowledge, at least not in the practical sense. They do contribute to celestial cosmological myth, but that isn't exactly astrology. That came later, during the reinassance.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Cap
Well-known member
I'm just saying that they never formulated the "naked eye" rule. That is entirely modern day invention.
I have eclectic approach when it comes to astrology. I'll use anything I like and discard things I don't like.
But you are the one with strong beliefs, who looks at astrology through the lens of Christianity. Nothing wrong with that, you are free to believe anything you like, as long as you let others to have their own view of astrology.
....or that pluto is more influential than the Moon, I can understand why you would think light does not matter.
Who said anything about Pluto?
The problem with traditional astrologers is that they are slaves to tradition. For example, they swear by an obsolete 12th house system, without realizing it was done for practical considerations, to make the calculation of aspects simpler. Not because it made sense from a timing perspective.
Many of the old techniques were created according to the needs and possibilities of the time. Hellenistic (and Roman) mathematics were very limited, until the they got the number system and other numerical tools from the arabs.
Do you know how the Greeks calculated aspects? They only took into account the relative positions of planets in the houses, not their accurate positions.
P.S. The research of Michel Gauquelin invalidates much of traditional astrology, in specific the house systems. He found special significance on the angles instead, not the traditional houses.
Many of the old techniques were created according to the needs and possibilities of the time. Hellenistic (and Roman) mathematics were very limited, until the they got the number system and other numerical tools from the arabs.
Do you know how the Greeks calculated aspects? They only took into account the relative positions of planets in the houses, not their accurate positions.
P.S. The research of Michel Gauquelin invalidates much of traditional astrology, in specific the house systems. He found special significance on the angles instead, not the traditional houses.
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