Will Trump lose the US election?

WILL TRUMP LOSE THE US ELECTION?

21 Oct 2016, 5:52:29pm, Sydney, Australia.

I put up this Horary chart when this question was asked on a TV program. A lot of people would have been thinking of the same question at the same time which meant I could use L1 for Trump and L7 for Clinton. The Sun is the alternative signifier for the Presidency. Saturn rules the 10th and signifies the Presidency.

The chart shows that Trump will lose and will not be elected.

Moon – signifying the people – opposes Mars, Trump’s signifier. The people oppose him.

Interestingly, neither Mars nor Venus is received by the Moon which seems to say that the voters don’t really like either candidate particularly.

The Moon applies by trine to Neptune (some confusion at first) and opposes both Mars and Pluto. She also connects in an easy way to North and South Node – this election will be fateful for the people.

The Sun as alternative signifier of the Presidency is in Clinton’s House – the 7th, not in the 1st with Trump.

Mars/Trump is separating from the Sun, showing he is moving away from the Presidency, not moving towards it as Clinton is doing. Also Mars is in aversion to Saturn, L10 – ie Trump is standing with his back to the Presidency and shows he will be walking away from it.

Mercury is in the 7th and as such could be an alternative signifier for Clinton. Mercury applies to the Sun in a close aspect and is another testimony that Clinton will win and Trump will lose.

Jupiter, also in Clinton’s 7th, is the major benefic and is good fortune for Clinton because Venus aspects Jupiter and, not only that, the two planets receive each other by mutual reception. Another testimony in Clinton’s favour.

Both Mars and Venus are equally strong in dignities showing the candidates equal in strength to each other. The Moon is also strong, showing a good turnout of voters.

A Rx Uranus is in Trump’s 1st House which does not auger well for him and Mars has just separated from Pluto, also angular, showing that hidden matters may surface or that something will ‘come to light.’

Trump’s signifier in the 10th House doesn’t mean he will win the contest. For that we need an aspect by Mars to 10 ruler Saturn OR to the Sun as signifier of the Presidency and preferably with some reception. If Saturn (the Presidency) were in Trump’s 1st House, then that would be completely different – the job would be with him and it would be positive for him. Here, it’s not. There’s no aspect, no reception and Saturn is not in the 1st.

Venus applies to Saturn/the Presidency in 10 degrees, with no intervening obstacles. Clinton will win.

With Sun as alternative signifier of the position, we find mixed reception between Sun and Venus – where Sun receives Venus by Triplicity and Venus receives the Sun by Sign – showing Clinton strongly receiving the position and the position fairly comfortable in accepting Clinton into it._________

This reply is written after I have just looked at both candidates progressions (I think he will win but only stay in office for 4 years - his progressed sun going into a new sign and into the first house, his progressed MC changing sign from cancer to leo but hitting saturn in 4 years whereas Hilary has uranus and chiron aspecting her MC), and also I know that a lot of people disapprove of doing horaries for events we are not personally involved in, but having said that I think the chart shows he will win sad.

The 1st house aries and 7th house libra seem to reflect the candidates well - he is brash with mars in his natal first and uranus on his sun so I think the 1st house does represent him, Hilary is, despite her legal career and time as Secretary of State, most widely known for being someone's spouse, and libra is ruled by venus, one of the significators of women, it is a less recognisable description of her than the first is of Trump, and probably horrifying to feminists, but I think it is possible.

The ruler of the 1st house is CONJUCNT THE MC the absolute indicator of success, especially concerning high office. It is in Capricorn, the sign associated with administration of countries and conjunct pluto the planet of ruthless power and big money (the real reason Trump's campaign has succeeded is because he has the money to put into it and because he is pandering to people's fears).

Venus, the ruler of the 7th house is only in the 8th house, not as strong as mars in the 10th. Mars is stronger by house position. Also mars is exalted in Capricorn (people are seeing him as better than he really is) whereas venus is peregrine in Sagittarius (she has lost her way and is only focussing on how awful Trump is and how great it would be to have a female President - the policies that she could have succeeded with or even the character traits are not being seen and heard IMO).

Jupiter is approaching the 7th house cusp and true that could mean expansion, but I would ideally like to see saturn, the ruler of the 10th in this chart, involved with the 7th house ruler to indicate success.

However, having said that I now see that venus is approaching saturn, the significator for victory in this chart, whereas mars is separating from the MC, so it is possible we could say mars is moving away from the prize.

As much has been made about this being the first time a woman has been nominated we could also look at the sun and the moon as significators of the candidates. Sun in the 7th could mean Bill Clinton (a significant and powerful man) supporting his wife, it could also mean Mr Trump relating to the public at large (some people say the 7th is how we relate to the world in general). Sun is in fall in libra, so a "fall from grace" - that could represent either Trump or Bill Clinton given the sleazy allegations that have come back into the spotlight recently. If the moon is Hilary it is approaching the 4th house cusp - the lowest point in terms of career success and a time to retreat from the world and spend time at home with family, not good for leading the world.

I hope you are right and I am wrong...

Venus does conjunct Saturn, so you may think Venus wins. Venus has lots of support, there is mutual reception with Jup and Saturn ruled by Jup. But Mars is essentially and accidentally strong and it also aspects Saturn! By Antiscia, its actually conjuncts it. So even though it looks like Venus may win, Mars may get there through something hidden.

Jupiter ruling the 9th, shows perhaps a foreign country helping Venus, I've heard Clinton getting financial support from middle eastern countries for her presidency. Also Trump is said to be helped by Russia, so we need to figure out who Venus is here.

Mars is stronger, by itself, Venus has the support from a great benefic... hmmm

here is another thread on this. http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86635&highlight=trump

edit: Been thinking more about exalted Mars. A planet in its own exaltation puts itself on pedestal, makes itself look bigger better more capable. Who has done it? Trump. Whilst Moon, the public is in fall of Mars, its also in triplicity of Mars, so this shows they dislike him, but they like him too. there is division. Moon is only in face of Venus and inconjuncts Venus. Moon is not interested in Venus, and have a love/hate relationship with Mars. Also Venus in 9th, aspecting the 9th ruler may show support from media and other associates. Clinton has wall street, banks, media supporting her. The public don't really want her.

SO this is going to be interesting to watch over the next week. I don't really see a clear winner in this chart, but my money is on Mars in this chart. Mars is so much stronger.

You can't really do a horary on a big question that many people would be asking, because each would note her own time and location, and these would give different answers. There is some mundane astrology and natal chart interpretation out there that might give better answers.

From what I've seen, most astrologers favour Clinton, a few favour Trump, and some think the outcome will be ambiguous.

This thread http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97687 deals with the astrology of the election, vs. the "chat" types of threads on this forum.

waybread said:

You can't really do a horary on a big question that many people would be asking, because each would note her own time and location, and these would give different answers. There is some mundane astrology and natal chart interpretation out there that might give better answers.

From what I've seen, most astrologers favour Clinton, a few favour Trump, and some think the outcome will be ambiguous.

This thread http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97687 deals with the astrology of the election, vs. the "chat" types of threads on this forum.

Click to expand...

Hi waybread, seems like it's been a while! Here's a possible ambiguity I haven't seen anyone else mention--Popular vote versus Electoral vote. Trump or Hillary could win the Popular vote and still not be elected. But an Astrologer could argue that a prediction of "victory" was correct. Could happen!

Waybread is correct, in that a horary question about a lofty, public event like, who will win the U.S. election. is simply out of bounds for a "self-serve" chart, unless you ARE TRUMP, one of his inner circle or family members, his campaign manager, or, have some direct, emotional stake in the question asked.

On the Noel tyl dot com site, there is a notorious questioner of lofty, public events, horary events that is none of his business.

Aquarius 358, have you ever read the classic text, Horary Astrology and the Judgement of Events ?. Author Barbara Hunt Watters makes the case that most querents ask the silliest of horary questions and, in most cases, a silly question always gets a dubious answer.

Assuming that you place Mars and Venus as the significators, both Mars and Venus are debilitated, here. Mars is afflicted by Moon, but Venus (ruling Clinton) is in the 2nd house of Clinton's finances, squaring Neptune (ruler of her turned 6th house of health). Some would say peregrine and makes no ptolemaic aspects.

This denotes a deceitful woman, (Venus square Neptune) someone who would say anything to get elected, and who is rather dishonest with matters pertaining to her health (6th house) and her finances (2nd house).

Trump is no better (Moon opposition Mars), an irritant and boisterous personality who has frequent conflict with women (Moon opposite Mars)
and tends to do things illegally (Mars in 9th, opposite Moon and square Uranus). Mars square Uranus denotes frequent scrapes with the media.

Mars in past conjunction with PLuto indicates the tendency to literally "scr*w" unto others and there is a long trail of court battles, sexual assaults (Pluto) and other Trump mayhem.

In spite of all these things, I will give Trump the nod to win the election. But, with Moons last aspect being a square with Sun in Libra, this suggests that the win will not be a happy ending for whoever wins all the marbles. That would suggest either marital strife for Trump, and or serious legal problems for him, or something quite unpredecented !

Trump is already the weirdest political candidate of all time, going back to Julius Ceasar.

How weirder can it get for Donald Trump, time will tell ! LOL He seems to survive every crisis.

p.s. He has already had one assassination attempt, plus a scare in Las Vegas, yesterday. One benefit of t. Saturn conjoining Trump's natal Moon is a period of sobering up, facing the music, and or modifying one's own public persona.

david starling said:

Hi waybread, seems like it's been a while!

Here's a possible ambiguity I haven't seen anyone else mention
--Popular vote versus Electoral vote.
Trump or Hillary could win the Popular vote
and still not be elected.
But an Astrologer could argue that a prediction of "victory" was correct. Could happen!

Click to expand...

Electoral College member
refuses to vote for Clinton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK-lGZbdoes

Thanks, sabumnim.

Lilly has an example of whether or not a monarch will keep his crown, but this was in the case of an astrologer advising the monarch in question.

Regarding whether Hillary Clinton hires an progressional astrologer for her political strategy, I think that that is entirely possible. Also, I think that Clinton knows her actual birth time, but is not sharing it with the astrological community, because Scorpion rising and proliferation of planets in the 12th house has this tendency to hide things?

I found it rather arrogant of Clinton that she has already formed a committee to plan her future administration, even though the race has tightened up, considerably, in the last few days, and many of the states that she thought she was going to slam dunk is possibly going to Trump!

Is this false confidence because her astrologer told her she was going to win the election ? LOL

In the good old days, when you astrologers failed to predict with accuracy and displeased the king, off to the dungeon you went or to the gallows?

But nowadays, you astrologers can rest in comfort that your *ss will not go to jail, IF you predict, wrongly. LOL

I also enjoyed watching NBC's Chuck Todd, a rather arrogant journalist, eating crow by telling viewers that Trump now has a tangible path to those 270 electoral college votes and then some.

The whole media has been noticeably/shamefully pro Hillary Clinton, including NBC News and CNN. Journalist Katy Tur is the most shameful pro Clinton huckster, out there. CNN is the other cheerleader for HRC.

sabumnim said:

Waybread is correct, in that a horary question about a lofty, public event like, who will win the U.S. election. is simply out of bounds for a "self-serve" chart, unless you ARE TRUMP, one of his inner circle or family members, his campaign manager, or, have some direct, emotional stake in the question asked.

On the Noel tyl dot com site, there is a notorious questioner of lofty, public events, horary events that is none of his business.

Aquarius 358, have you ever read the classic text, Horary Astrology and the Judgement of Events ?. Author Barbara Hunt Watters makes the case that most querents ask the silliest of horary questions and, in most cases, a silly question always gets a dubious answer.

Assuming that you place Mars and Venus as the significators, both Mars and Venus are debilitated, here. Mars is afflicted by Moon, but Venus (ruling Clinton) is in the 2nd house of Clinton's finances, squaring Neptune (ruler of her turned 6th house of health). Some would say peregrine and makes no ptolemaic aspects.

This denotes a deceitful woman, (Venus square Neptune) someone who would say anything to get elected, and who is rather dishonest with matters pertaining to her health (6th house) and her finances (2nd house).

Trump is no better (Moon opposition Mars), an irritant and boisterous personality who has frequent conflict with women (Moon opposite Mars)
and tends to do things illegally (Mars in 9th, opposite Moon and square Uranus). Mars square Uranus denotes frequent scrapes with the media.

Mars in past conjunction with PLuto indicates the tendency to literally "scr*w unto others and there is a long trail of court battles, sexual assaults (Pluto) and other Trump mayhem.

In spite of all these things, I will give Trump the nod to win the election. But, with Moons last aspect being a square with Sun in Libra, this suggests that the win will not be a happy ending for whoever wins all the marbles. That would suggest either marital strife for Trump, and or serious legal problems for him, or something quite unpredecented !

Trump is already the weirdest political candidate of all time, going back to Julius Ceasar.

How weirder can it get for Donald Trump, time will tell ! LOL

p.s. He has already had one assassination attempt, plus a scare in Las Vegas, yesterday. One benefit of t. Saturn conjoining Trump's natal Moon is a period of sobering up, facing the music, and or modifying one's own public persona.

Click to expand...

JUlius Ceasar? I doubt it .. Trump is American version of V Zhirinovksy head of LDRP of Russian party

sabumnim said:

Regarding whether Hillary Clinton hires an progressional astrologer for her political strategy,
I think that that is entirely possible. Also, I think that Clinton knows her actual birth time,
but is not sharing it with the astrological community, because Scorpion rising and proliferation of planets in the 12th house
has this tendency to hide things?

I found it rather arrogant of Clinton
that she has already formed a committee to plan her future administration,
even though the race has tightened up, considerably, in the last few days,
and many of the states that she thought she was going to slam dunk is possibly going to Trump!

Is this false confidence because her astrologer told her she was going to win the election ? LOL

In the good old days, when you astrologers failed to predict with accuracy and displeased the king, off to the dungeon you went or to the gallows?

But nowadays, you astrologers can rest in comfort that your *ss will not go to jail, IF you predict, wrongly. LOL

I also enjoyed watching NBC's Chuck Todd, a rather arrogant journalist, eating crow by telling viewers that Trump now has a tangible path to those 270 electoral college votes and then some.

The whole media has been noticeably/shamefully pro Hillary Clinton, including NBC News and CNN. Journalist Katy Tur is the most shameful pro Clinton huckster, out there. CNN is the other cheerleader for HRC.

Click to expand...

Perhaps the arrogance is a consequence of other factors

noraleader said:

after you find out that it's all fake,
the next thing you find out is that nobody cares in the slightest,
and keeps rolling right along with it.
why is that? MENTOR platformed redaction? smart dust? bolivian banded tapeworms? chromasome damage from cellphone towers? UPC symbols? demonic ufo apparitions? copious candy?

i still like to speak out from time to time as well. but who reads it?

look at you, look at cold fusion. i'm the one, authentic Targeted Individual on this board and the both of you couldn't give me the time of day, because you're both certain i'm a perp, or a false advocate, or not worth your time, or who knows, but obviously neither of you sees communicating with me as an asset.

yes the election is rigged,
but boy that bernie guy is the real deal ha.
you can hear them in the streets,chanting, B.!S.! ..B.!S.!

Click to expand...

and we all wondered why Bernie Sanders did not raise certain issues

WIKILEAKS most recent email revelation explains Hillary Clinton was apparently blackmailing Bernie Sanders
into not attacking her on certain issues.
Clinton campaign emails reveal they had "leverage"
to use against him
and that they had to "signal" him after he "violated" their agreement.
Wikileaks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BYZGquJ-90

I agree that the full goods on Clinton's email monkey business has yet to rise to the surface, but when it does, look out. As I said, Venus squaring Neptune is the mark of a con-artist or swindler.

sabumnim said:

I agree that the full goods on Clinton's email monkey business has yet to rise to the surface,
but when it does, look out. As I said, Venus squaring Neptune
is the mark of a con-artist or swindler.

Click to expand...

A presidential candidate who COULD become president while under investigation by FBI and NYPD
whose husband BILL CLINTON lost license to practice Law after a serious sex offence
i.e.
with intern Monica Lewinsky
and is also dogged by numerous rape allegations
including numerous documented flights on "The Lolita Express" courtesy of paedophile Jeffrey Epstein
http://gawker.com/flight-logs-put-clinton-dershowitz-on-pedophile-billio-1681039971
not to mention "Pay for Play" via Clinton "Charitable" Foundation
is
- irrespective of the merits and/or demerits of their opponent
to say the least
interesting

Comey stands by July Clinton decision
days before election https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgrg_70R1WY

To think that the FBI could go through 650,000 emails
in 9 days
is beyond absurd! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxzA6z5WeWQ
unless they were all concerning YOGA and bridesmaids

2016

Election
PREDICTION
What Will Happen After? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OklGfyONt9c

The adults in the room might enjoy reading the following, by celebrated American author Barbara Kingsolver. Like Kingsolver, I am also sickened and tired of the blatant misogyny rampant in this campaign season, and the irrational belief that an utterly unqualified bully can possibly revert America back to a non-existent whites-only past and an economy that isn't coming back.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ouse-donald-trump-bullying-barbara-kingsolver

For what it's worth, this is a horary thread, folks.

So maybe ask some other type of horary question that is answerable, like, "If I vote for Donald Trump, how soon will I feel buyer's remorse?"

Sean Hannity

Rudy Guiliani
Hillary Clinton
James Comey
Loretta Lynch
House Maid dealt with classified emails Huma Abedin
HILLARY CHANGED HER STORY COUNTLESS TIMES https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr-7Cv9w9M0

Aquarius358 said:

WILL TRUMP LOSE THE US ELECTION?

21 Oct 2016, 5:52:29pm, Sydney, Australia.

I put up this Horary chart when this question was asked on a TV program. A lot of people would have been thinking of the same question at the same time which meant I could use L1 for Trump and L7 for Clinton. The Sun is the alternative signifier for the Presidency. Saturn rules the 10th and signifies the Presidency.

The chart shows that Trump will lose and will not be elected.

Moon – signifying the people – opposes Mars, Trump’s signifier. The people oppose him.

Interestingly, neither Mars nor Venus is received by the Moon which seems to say that the voters don’t really like either candidate particularly.

The Moon applies by trine to Neptune (some confusion at first) and opposes both Mars and Pluto. She also connects in an easy way to North and South Node – this election will be fateful for the people.

The Sun as alternative signifier of the Presidency is in Clinton’s House – the 7th, not in the 1st with Trump.

Mars/Trump is separating from the Sun, showing he is moving away from the Presidency, not moving towards it as Clinton is doing. Also Mars is in aversion to Saturn, L10 – ie Trump is standing with his back to the Presidency and shows he will be walking away from it.

Mercury is in the 7th and as such could be an alternative signifier for Clinton. Mercury applies to the Sun in a close aspect and is another testimony that Clinton will win and Trump will lose.

Jupiter, also in Clinton’s 7th, is the major benefic and is good fortune for Clinton because Venus aspects Jupiter and, not only that, the two planets receive each other by mutual reception. Another testimony in Clinton’s favour.

Both Mars and Venus are equally strong in dignities showing the candidates equal in strength to each other. The Moon is also strong, showing a good turnout of voters.

A Rx Uranus is in Trump’s 1st House which does not auger well for him and Mars has just separated from Pluto, also angular, showing that hidden matters may surface or that something will ‘come to light.’

Trump’s signifier in the 10th House doesn’t mean he will win the contest. For that we need an aspect by Mars to 10 ruler Saturn OR to the Sun as signifier of the Presidency and preferably with some reception. If Saturn (the Presidency) were in Trump’s 1st House, then that would be completely different – the job would be with him and it would be positive for him. Here, it’s not. There’s no aspect, no reception and Saturn is not in the 1st.

Venus applies to Saturn/the Presidency in 10 degrees, with no intervening obstacles. Clinton will win.

With Sun as alternative signifier of the position, we find mixed reception between Sun and Venus – where Sun receives Venus by Triplicity and Venus receives the Sun by Sign – showing Clinton strongly receiving the position and the position fairly comfortable in accepting Clinton into it._________

Click to expand...

Well NWO does not want trump to win they do everything to make hitlery clinton be the winner

obama and his boyfriend. emmm i mean wife...
are hailing hitlery and begging the worold to vote her "if you love me vote her" says obama this is hillarious

they even show off singers ,actors ,NBA stars like lebron wosrshipping her WTF man
they accuse trump for rapes ,sexual assaults and many many more

even if trump deserves the win they will not let him,i dont thing he's going to win.

MadArchitect said:

Well NWO does not want trump to win they do everything to make hitlery clinton be the winner

obama and his boyfriend. emmm i mean wife...
are hailing hitlery and begging the worold to vote her "if you love me vote her" says obama this is hillarious

they even show off singers ,actors ,NBA stars like lebron wosrshipping her WTF man
they accuse trump for rapes ,sexual assaults and many many more

even if trump deserves the win they will not let him,i dont thing he's going to win.

Click to expand...

CLINTON CHARITY Paid Chelsea's Wedding!
Clinton Foundation FRAUD!
Crooked Hillary Busted by Wikileaks!

CHARITY MONEY MEANT FOR THE POOR!
CROOKED HILLARY USED CLINTON FOUNDATION FUNDS TO ILLEGALLY PAY FOR HER DAUGHTER'S WEDDING!
THAT IS CALLED 'CHARITY FRAUD.' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFCcDrKqEnQ

junoisuppose said:

...
...

The ruler of the 1st house is CONJUCNT THE MC the absolute indicator of success, especially concerning high office. ...
No, this is not the understanding I have of the 10th House questions in Lilly and Bonatti. If the person wanting the job is in the 10th House with the job does not mean they get the job or the 'preferment'. The signifier of the job must be in their house (usually 1st).

Venus, the ruler of the 7th house is only in the 8th house, not as strong as mars in the 10th. Mars is stronger by house position. Also mars is exalted in Capricorn (people are seeing him as better than he really is) whereas venus is peregrine in Sagittarius (she has lost her way and is only focussing on how awful Trump is and how great it would be to have a female President - the policies that she could have succeeded with or even the character traits are not being seen and heard IMO).
If you add up the dignities, they are the same for Mars and Venus and Moon.

Jupiter is approaching the 7th house cusp ...
actually Jupiter is in the 7th using the 5degree rule. ...

I hope you are right and I am wrong...

Click to expand...

Thanks for your thoughts.
M.