ASTROLOGY of the 2016 US elections

waybread

Well-known member

I disagree. This is just more demonizing of Hillary Clinton. Do people really have this much difficulty with powerful, ambitious women? (But not with powerful ambitious men?)

Use a whole signs house system, and those Scorpio-Leo planets move into the angular first and 10th houses.

Give Clinton credit for doing a remarkable job with a difficult chart. Prior to announcing her candidacy, Clinton was actually very popular in the US. She has many honours, award, and honorary degrees; in large part due to her advocacy on behalf of families and children. (The 8:02 TOB gives her a 5th house Pisces moon.) We might debate on a separate chat thread whether Clinton was an effective Secretary of State or not, but nobody called her evil prior to the right-wing attack on her for Benghazi, in which she successfully defended her record throughout 9 separate official hearings, most led by antagonistic Republican members of Congress.

Regardless of her TOB Clinton has an exalted Mars in Leo in mutual reception with her Scorpio sun. Her Jupiter is domiciled in Sagittarius.

Everyone of HRC's generation (baby boomers) has Pluto in Leo, and many have that Saturn in Leo, as well. The conjunction appears with everyone born in 1947 and 1983.

I think HRC has a very difficult chart. I give her credit for making something of her life, notwithstanding.
 

sabumnim

Banned
Who says that I want "bad" things to happen to the Clintons. Another nonsensical assumption of yours ! Both of the Clintons are simply unsuited, AND unqualified, to be the President !

Let's be clear: we all show pre-conceived biases and favoritism, in interpreting the natal charts of these famous and infamous politicians. So do PH D psychologists that I have worked with who happen to be trained in western astrology.

Everyone has a bias and that inevitably seeps into the final interpretation.

You are big on bravado and opinions, my fine feathered friend, and short on predictions. So, who will win the election on November 8th or on December 21st. (good grief?)

Put your money where your mouth is !

Tell us why, in clear astrological terms, as well, as this is a mundane section and not a political gossip section (as you stated).
 

david starling

Well-known member
Who says that I want "bad" things to happen to the Clintons. Another nonsensical assumption of yours ! Both of the Clintons are simply unsuited, AND unqualified, to be the President !

Let's be clear: we all show pre-conceived biases and favoritism, in interpreting the natal charts of these famous and infamous politicians. So do PH D psychologists that I have worked with who happen to be trained in western astrology.

Everyone has a bias and that inevitably seeps into the final interpretation.

You are big on bravado and opinions, my fine feathered friend, and short on predictions. So, who will win the election on November 8th or on December 21st. (good grief?)

Put your money where your mouth is !

Tell us why, in clear astrological terms, as well, as this is a mundane section and not a political gossip section (as you stated).

It's really about synastry between the candidates and the voting public. Who will the voting public prefer inside the voting booths? Polls don't work because people will say one thing, and do another when it comes to a secret ballot. Even husbands and wives will lie about who they voted for, as well as friends and family.
Given the lack of appeal of both candidates, small things at the last minute can change minds. Barring some new, shocking revelation about one of them, Sun and Mercury in Scorpio will give HRC the edge. It occurs to me that not everyone realizes the widespread, powerful effect of the Solar transit; which to me, as a Piscean, is so easy to observe.
 

Sweet Pea

Well-known member
You could do a composite chart of the US with each of the 2 main candidates.

You could even do a progressed composite of them for election day.

Has anyone tried it?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

It's really about synastry between the candidates and the voting public.
Who will the voting public prefer inside the voting booths?
Polls don't work because people will say one thing, and do another when it comes to a secret ballot.
Even husbands and wives will lie about who they voted for, as well as friends and family.

Given the lack of appeal of both candidates,
small things at the last minute can change minds.


Barring some new, shocking revelation about one of them, Sun and Mercury in Scorpio will give HRC the edge.
It occurs to me that not everyone realizes the widespread, powerful effect of the Solar transit;
which to me, as a Piscean, is so easy to observe.
Regulus rising has a powerful effect irrespective of Scorpio Sun/Mercury Sun

Bernie Sanders doesn’t want to be president
but he could snatch three electoral votes in Vermont

That’s because Vermont is one of seven states

that allow voters to write in anyone for president :smile:
even if they have no intention of running for office.

Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are two of the most disliked presidential candidates ever
and Google searches for write-in ballots are skyrocketing.
Vermont is one of the states asking Google about write-in votes the most.
A write-in vote for Sanders in Vermont would be treated like a vote for Trump or Clinton.

Only Vermont, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Iowa and Oregon
allow voters to write in anyone for president.


The majority of states, 34, also allow write-in votes
but the candidate must complete paperwork to have votes counted.
Nine states do not allow write-in votes for president.

In addition to Trump, Clinton and Libertarian Gary Johnson, who are on the ballot in all 50 states
four other candidates have access to enough votes to win in November:
Green Party candidate Jill Stein
Constitution Party candidate Darrell Castle
Reform Party candidate Rocky De La Fuente
and independent Evan McMullin
are either on the ballot
or have filled out the paperwork to be considered as a write-in candidate in enough states to win.
McMullin is within striking distance of winning Utah.

If a write-in candidate were to win a state on November 8 and Trump or Clinton fails to gain 270 electoral votes
the House of Representatives chooses the president between the top three candidates.

Write-in candidates have won Senate races in recent years.
In 2010, incumbent Republican Lisa Murkowski waged a successful write-in campaign
after losing the Republican primary to a Tea Party challenger.

Presidential candidates have won states during the primary as write-ins
including Herbert Hoover and Franklin Roosevelt
but no write-in candidate has ever won a state in the general election.

The list of potential write-in candidates includes “Buddy the Elf” from North Pole, Alaska
and “Darth Vader” from Spokane, Washington.
 
Last edited:

unique_astrology

Well-known member
How my favorite tool sees the Sibly chart working with Trump and HRC for the 3rd debate.

qIRzLYn.gif


9Twj0oM.gif
 

waybread

Well-known member
Who says that I want "bad" things to happen to the Clintons. Another nonsensical assumption of yours ! Both of the Clintons are simply unsuited, AND unqualified, to be the President !

This is what you actually wrote:

I have no hidden agenda with the Clintons. They are scum.

Let's be clear: we all show pre-conceived biases and favoritism, in interpreting the natal charts of these famous and infamous politicians. So do PH D psychologists that I have worked with who happen to be trained in western astrology.

Everyone has a bias and that inevitably seeps into the final interpretation.

No problem with that, except that you called the Clintons scum.

These aren't the words of professional psychologists that I've known. You further believe alt-right unproven allegations about the Clintons, rather than fact-checking with more objective sources.

"The Clintons" are not running for president. Hillary Clinton is running for president.

You are big on bravado and opinions, my fine feathered friend, and short on predictions. So, who will win the election on November 8th or on December 21st. (good grief?)

Put your money where your mouth is !

Tell us why, in clear astrological terms, as well, as this is a mundane section and not a political gossip section (as you stated).

Nobody is your "fine feathered friend." Save that expression for your pet budgie, as I dismiss personal put-down attempts. I haven't seen any of your astrological analysis lately.

I have spread my mundane comments out across several threads, and I do not expect you to have read all of them.

But one argument that hits me strongly is that if someone (a) becomes POTUS or (b) becomes an ex-presidential nominee overnight, then this should show up in her/his MC or 11th house using prognosticative methods. Wouldn't you think?

Moreover, Uranus rules sudden change. Astrologer Alice Portman has observed that the timing of Uranus changing houses should correspond to changing life events.

You've correctly noted that we don't have a solid birth time for Clinton, but I've looked at her 8:02 am charts and think they have merit. If we go with that TOB during the period between Election Day and Inauguration Day, solar arc Uranus partile conjuncts her MC or moves beyond it into her 10th house. Donald Trump's TOB is Rodden AA, and during the same period his solar arc Uranus squares his MC.

Solar arc asteroid Hillary conjuncts the "natal" 10th house moon of the Constitution of the US. This is the document, not the Declaration of Independence, that I believe should constitute the "birth" of the US presidency.

It's OK to dismiss solar arcs or asteroids as you have done, but then when you get enough of these direct hits, you start to take them seriously.

Maybe you'd prefer traditional astrology's use of the Aries ingress chart for 2016, which shows the party in power (Democrats) retaining control.

http://www.ninagryphon.com/astrology-of-the-2016-presidential-election/

The astrologer to watch, incidentally, is Unique_Astrology, who uses far more sophisticated predictive methods than I do. He has several posts on this thread. I'd be curious to know what you think of his work.
 

waybread

Well-known member
It's really about synastry between the candidates and the voting public. Who will the voting public prefer inside the voting booths? Polls don't work because people will say one thing, and do another when it comes to a secret ballot. Even husbands and wives will lie about who they voted for, as well as friends and family.
Given the lack of appeal of both candidates, small things at the last minute can change minds. Barring some new, shocking revelation about one of them, Sun and Mercury in Scorpio will give HRC the edge. It occurs to me that not everyone realizes the widespread, powerful effect of the Solar transit; which to me, as a Piscean, is so easy to observe.

David, in a mundane chart, the 4th house and the moon represent "the people". Other houses symbolize different elements of a nation, more or less consonant with how these houses function in modern natal astrology. For example, the 3rd house of communication represents the press.

Here is a run-down of how to read a mundane chart:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/ingresses.html
 
Last edited:

david starling

Well-known member
David, in a mundane chart, the 4th house and the moon represent "the people". Other houses symbolize different elements of a nation, more or less consonant with how these houses function in modern natal astrology. For example, the 3rd house of communication represents the press.

Here is a run-down of how to read a mundane chart:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/ingresses.html

Sun affecting how the candidates appear as potential leaders.
Mercury affecting how the media relates to the candidates. Both in Scorpio, which is HRC's Sun-sign and Merc-sign. I think trying for House-placements is a stretch. Moon in Pisces on election day (the people) should favor HRC with her Natal-Moon in Pisces. Although, a lot votes will be cast well in advance of Nov. 8th.
What I'm saying is, the actual astral conditions during election time favor HRC. If the election had been held with Leo and Gemini conditions, it would have favored Trump.
 
Last edited:

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
"The Clintons" are not running for president.

Hillary Clinton is running for president.
Nevertheless
Hillary Clinton 'running solo' for president
is doing so married to philandering husband Bill
:smile:

a reliable time of birth is essential
t
o assess HRC 7th House of partnerships ruler
and any influence by a scandalous marriage partner
but no documented time of birth is available


Bill Clinton sabotaged his second term as president
when he had a sordid sexual affair
with then-White House intern Monica Lewinsky.
The House of Representatives voted to impeach Clinton over 'Monicagate'
Currently more than 100 interns staff White House offices at any given time
including the Office of the First Lady as well as the president’s


905580.jpg

Clinton and Lewinsky on the White House front lawn and a function.Photo: Getty Images

FURTHERMORE
Hillary is on record as saying
she would put her husband “to work” on the nation’s economy
A spokesman for the Republican National Committee, Michael Short
countered HRC
reminding all that Mr. Clinton’s record is not rosy
and blamed HRC's husband Bill for a recession soon after he left office
as well as for the later housing bust

HRC's husband
despite being an ex-President
lacks credibility and is a liability
there are umpteen rectifications of HRCs chart
none is based on confirmed time of birth


 

unique_astrology

Well-known member
Just as the eclipse on September 1, 2016, timed the death knell for Trump's candidacy in his natal chart* it marked the day the video from which there was no recovery hammered the chart I use for the Republican Party coinciding with the party's cessation of financial support for him and prefaced a massive public exodus of party members from among his supporters.

*[Trump's chart was directly aspected by the September 1st solar eclipse. His natal chart has the Neptune/Pluto midpoint at 160°09′. It was conjoined by the solar eclipse at 160°56′ and squared by the midpoint of transiting Mars and Saturn at 250°34′. At the time of the eclipse Trump's progressed ASC pointed to 267°46', eclipse Saturn/Pluto at 267°27' was there.]

On that day (Oct 7) my GOP secondary progressed chart (using Q2 Mean Quotidian angles) had the eclipse land on it's progressed ASC while other angles accessed the eclipse's Mars, Saturn, and Neptune. Better than a trifecta! Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!:)

QR3dPFD.gif
 
Last edited:

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

Sun affecting how the candidates appear as potential leaders.
Mercury affecting how the media relates to the candidates.
Both in Scorpio, which is HRC's Sun-sign and Merc-sign.

How that affects HRC is unknown because there is no confirmed time of birth
HRC ascendant sign not known
so House location of Scorpio Sun/Mercury also not known



I think trying for House-placements is a stretch.
Quite.
House placements are dependent on confirmed time of birth
which is unavailable

Moon in Pisces on election day (the people)
should favor HRC with her Natal-Moon in Pisces.
Not necessarily, the natal promise requires assessment


Although, a lot votes will be cast well in advance of Nov. 8th.
Exactly - possibly at times astrologically unfavorable to HRC

What I'm saying is, the actual astral conditions during election time favor HRC.
The mundane chart holds precedence in Mundane astrology
If the election had been held with Leo and Gemini conditions,
it would have favored Trump.
Disgraced President Clinton is a Leo and when elected Sun was in Scorpio :smile:
The election is always held when Sun is Scorpio
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Nevertheless
Hillary Clinton 'running solo' for president
is doing so married to philandering husband Bill
:smile:

If a male candidate had been cheated on by his wife 20+ years ago, would you consider that relevant to his candidacy?

Given that almost all presidential candidates to date have been married men, and given the high incidence of marital infidelity in general, there's no way there's never been a male candidate who had a previously unfaithful wife. He may have remained married to her. Probably did, in fact, since up until now very few front runner candidates have had previous divorces (as far as I know, Reagan, McCain, and Trump, and Adlai Stevenson back in the 1950s, are the only top presidential candidates who were previously divorced, and none of them ever divorced a wife on grounds of adultery). Yet no one has ever talked about a male candidate's spouse's infidelity, let alone considered it an impact on his qualification for office.
 
Last edited:

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
If a male candidate had been cheated on by his wife 20+ years ago,
would you consider that relevant to his candidacy?

Given that almost all presidential candidates to date have been married men,
and given the high incidence of marital infidelity in general, there's no way there's never been a male candidate who had a previously unfaithful wife.
He may have remained married to her.
Probably did, in fact, since up until now very few front runner candidates have had previous divorces
(as far as I know, Reagan, McCain, and Trump, and Adlai Stevenson back in the 1950s,
are the only top presidential candidates who were previously divorced,
and none of them ever divorced a wife on grounds of adultery).
Yet no one even mentioned those candidates' marriages,
let alone considered them an impact on the candidate's qualifications for office.
No male candidate in the History of American politics
had an unfaithful wife who also is an ex-President of the United States :smile:
and
who furthermore cheated with specifically a White House intern



BILL CLINTON and MONICA LEWINSKY:
Mars in Aries OPPOSES Mars in Libra.
There are many examples of Mars-Mars in synastry
So, they matched enough to get started.

- both are Leo’s
- both have the Moon in Taurus
- their Venus signs match

His Saturn on her Sun shows restrictions, however.
How about
- being married
and
- age?
That is what kept them apart.
And that is what keeps the Clinton's together: SATURN!
http://astrology-love-romance.blogsp...d-hillary.html

 
Last edited:

Osamenor

Staff member

No male candidate in the History of American politics
had an unfaithful wife who also is an ex-President of the United States :smile:
and
who furthermore cheated with specifically a White House intern




It's still a double standard to consider HRC's husband's behavior a couple decades ago relevant to her qualification for office, while not giving the same scrutiny to any male candidate.

If she's elected, Bill will not be president again. He'll just be... First Husband? (We have to work on that title!) No political power, just some symbolic influence. And that role does not necessarily have to be filled. There have been a few presidents in the past who were never married, were widowers, or became widowers while in office. The country did fine during those years without a First Lady. In short, it's not vital to the running of the country, unlike the role of president.

Now, if she had been the one to have an affair, it would be another story. But if past marital infidelity is a disqualification, Trump should definitely be disqualified. On his own merits, not his past or present spouses'.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Just as the eclipse on September 1, 2016, timed the death knell for Trump's candidacy in his natal chart* it marked the day the video from which there was no recovery hammered the chart I use for the Republican Party coinciding with the party's cessation of financial support for him and prefaced a massive public exodus of party members from among his supporters.

*[Trump's chart was directly aspected by the September 1st solar eclipse. His natal chart has the Neptune/Pluto midpoint at 160°09′. It was conjoined by the solar eclipse at 160°56′ and squared by the midpoint of transiting Mars and Saturn at 250°34′. At the time of the eclipse Trump's progressed ASC pointed to 267°46', eclipse Saturn/Pluto at 267°27' was there.]

On that day (Oct 7) my GOP secondary progressed chart (using Q2 Mean Quotidian angles) had the eclipse land on it's progressed ASC while other angles accessed the eclipse's Mars, Saturn, and Neptune. Better than a trifecta! Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!:)

QR3dPFD.gif

Ah... maybe the September 1st eclipse is what made some astrologers say Trump would lose ground by mid September. But what would have made anyone predict the beginning of the end as early as the last two weeks of August?

It stands to reason that as Trump loses ground, Clinton gains. What do you see the eclipse doing to her, or for her?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
It's still a double standard to consider HRC's husband's behavior a couple decades ago
relevant to her qualification for office,
while not giving the same scrutiny to any male candidate.
TRUMP is a LEO who is a businessman regarding whom a number of accusations have been debunked
CLINTON is a LEO who is an ex-lawyer
as well as an ex-president involved in scandalous activity while in the White House
for which CLINTON lost his license to practice Law and was impeached by The House of Representatives
note 't
he same scrutiny' IS being given to Trump
re: a private 'locker room conversation' eleven years ago :smile:
at which time Trump was not a president
and the House of Represen tatives did not vote to impeach Trump
The House of Representatives DID vote to impeach Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton also lost his license to practice law
while Hillary enabled her husband by attacking the women Bill Clinton was accused of raping


If she's elected, Bill will not be president again.

He'll just be... First Husband? (We have to work on that title!)
No political power, just some symbolic influence.
And that role does not necessarily have to be filled.
There have been a few presidents in the past who were never married, were widowers, or became widowers while in office.
The country did fine during those years without a First Lady.
In short, it's not vital to the running of the country, unlike the role of president.
ON THE CONTRARY Hillary is on record as saying
she would put her husband “to work” on the nation’s economy
A spokesman for the Republican National Committee, Michael Short
countered HRC
reminding all that Mr. Clinton’s record is not rosy
and blamed HRC's husband Bill for a recession soon after he left office
as well as for the later housing bust

Hillary Clintons record is not rosy either
particularly with regard to illegally deliberately deleting at least 33,000 emails
from her private email server
and lying to FBI
COMEY apparently accepts that Clinton
after decades in politics
"apparently did not understand that 'C' means 'classified'
If that is so, then HRC is incompetent


Now, if she had been the one to have an affair,
it would be another story.
But if past marital infidelity is a disqualification, Trump should definitely be disqualified.
On his own merits, not his past or present spouses'.

There is no precedent in the History of American politics
of an unfaithful wife who also is an ex-President of the United States
and
who furthermore cheated with specifically a White House intern
 
Last edited:

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
ECLIPSES

AND MUNDANE ASTROLOGY

Mundane astrological implications of any eclipse supercede any individual natal chart :smile:


To establish the POSSIBILITY of any effect on a particular individual
of specifically 1 September 2016 eclipse
study NATAL chart for any of the following:

Sun or Moon in or around 9 Virgo
Sun or Moon in or around 9 Pisces - opposition
Sun or Moon in or around 9 Sagittarius or Gemini - square
9 Virgo culminating in the birth chart - conjunct Midheaven
9 Virgo ascending in the birth chart -conjunct Ascendant


IF one or even more of these factors apply
an in-depth reading of the NATAL chart is the next step
to find out IF
as well as how and to what extent
the native could be affected.

DONALD TRUMP NATAL HAS NEITHER PLANETS NOR ANGLES AROUND 9 MUTABLE
 

Osamenor

Staff member
The same scrutiny is being given to Trump
re: a private 'locker room conversation' eleven years ago :smile:
at which time Trump was not a president
and the House of Represen tatives did not vote to impeach Trump
The House of Representatives DID vote to impeach Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton also lost his license to practice law
and Hillary enabled her husband by attacking the women Bill Clinton was accused of raping
That's not the same scrutiny at all. The scrutiny being given to Trump is about his own behavior. He's not being held responsible for something his spouse did. The "she's running for president while married to philandering husband Bill" remark is holding Hillary Clinton accountable for what her spouse did. That is a double standard.

ON THE CONTRARY Hillary is on record as saying
she would put her husband “to work” on the nation’s economy
A spokesman for the Republican National Committee, Michael Short
countered HRC
reminding all that Mr. Clinton’s record is not rosy
and blamed HRC's husband Bill for a recession soon after he left office
as well as for the later housing bust
If Bill were responsible for the recession and housing bust, it would've happened when he was in office. That statement admits that it didn't happen until after he left office. The later housing bust didn't happen until long after. And who was holding the presidency then? The Republican party. How convenient, for the Republican National Committee to blame Clinton!

Not that either of them can really take all of the blame. The president has very little control over what happens to the economy.

In any case, even if Hillary does have Bill help her out with economic policy, she'll be calling the shots. He won't have final say, just input, and in an unofficial capacity. Presidents' spouses always have personal influence, and often they have pet projects that influence the country--like Michelle Obama's Let's Move program and White House garden, or Laura Bush's literacy efforts, or Hillary Clinton's efforts towards better health care when she was First Lady. But in none of those cases were they actually passing a policy.


There is no precedent in the History of American politics
of an unfaithful wife who also is an ex-President of the United States
and
who furthermore cheated with specifically a White House intern
However, there is lots of precedent throughout America, and much of the rest of the world, too, of blaming women for their husbands' affairs and considering women's marital lives part of their professional qualifications while having no such standard at all for men. That is exactly what is happening here.
 
Top