Virgo represents our femininity

That is not quite correct, not connected with the crone, that is decay & part of

is the positive aspect of the Divine Feminine that is represented with many figures over the ages, the Virgin Mary, Sophia, Athena.. & in every case, she says 'YES'.

Being ruled by She is much more complicated that putting her in a box like for instance.
encompasses authentic, earthly qualities but equally the cold, logic of

She represents our femininity relating to how she works in our own natal chart.

She probably gets the most hate in the zodiac because we live in a world of control & domination & destruction.
being passive , creative & mutable is derided & stomped on & taken advantage of (like other feminine signs that are not Cardinal & don't have the 'alpha' personality.)

Whether you are 'feminine' or not is not based on your AC.

Much more complicated than that.

IleneK said:

Another Virgo rising who is not particularly feminine,

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blackbery said:

That is not quite correct, not connected with the crone, that is decay & part of

is the positive aspect of the Divine Feminine that is represented with many figures over the ages, the Virgin Mary, Sophia, Athena.. & in every case, she says 'YES'.

Being ruled by She is much more complicated that putting her in a box like for instance.
encompasses authentic, earthly qualities but equally the cold, logic of

She represents our femininity relating to how she works in our own natal chart.

She probably gets the most hate in the zodiac because we live in a world of control & domination & destruction.
being passive , creative & mutable is derided & stomped on & taken advantage of (like other feminine signs that are not Cardinal & don't have the 'alpha' personality.)

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I agree with you 💯💯💯💯 virgos are extremely hated for absolutely no reason and that’s why I study much about them , yes they’re right for not being feminine despite having a Virgo rising but why are they trying to control the natural phenomenon? If something doesn’t apply to you it doesn’t mean that it’s stereotypical nature is false , there’s some atom of truth and opposition to everything, since I made this thread I’ve argued with about 3 narrow minded people who try to force their obstinate opinions down everyone’s throat all because other aspects of their chart doesn’t go in line with what I’m saying

blackbery said:

Whether you are 'feminine' or not is not based on your AC.

Much more complicated than that.

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They will swear everything terrible about them is the so called “Virgo rising “ Lmfaooo

I don't understand this rejection of the Divine Feminine either but it's the world we live in now where only aggression, smashing & destroying is applauded. The Divine Masculine has ruled society for so long now that people now reject anything about themselves & others that is soft, gentle, receptive (i.e traits).

Too bad. rules the digestive system, what we take in, chew, mulch....without which, we could not survive!

represents the High Priestess of Wisdom when her ego is not involved otherwise, she can be a nagging shrew concerned with triviality dressed as grand ideas.

We need a recalibration to balance out the masculine/feminine the yin/yang energies by accepting that both are needed & one is not 'better' than another.

blackbery said:

I don't understand this rejection of the Divine Feminine either but it's the world we live in now where only aggression, smashing & destroying is applauded. The Divine Masculine has ruled society for so long now that people now reject anything about themselves & others that is soft, gentle, receptive (i.e traits).

Too bad. rules the digestive system, what we take in, chew, mulch....without which, we could not survive!

represents the High Priestess of Wisdom when her ego is not involved otherwise, she can be a nagging shrew concerned with triviality dressed as grand ideas.

We need a recalibration to balance out the masculine/feminine the yin/yang energies by accepting that both are needed & one is not 'better' than another.

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Exactly, we’re in a masculine dominated world now where everyone will cringe if you talk about femininity like it’s a huge crime , we need to balance our energies to be complete , virgos are also healers too

Yep, people want to destroy the Divine Feminine (don't call me feminine they say or I'll show you just how tough I really am!)

Never mind that the eternal mother is represented by (authentic without the glitz & glamour).

Healers, therapists, naturopaths are all typical of who want the 'real deal'...the 'raw' that is not processed but comes out of the ground, out of the plants, out of nature.

GarnishedCrab said:

Exactly, we’re in a masculine dominated world now where everyone will cringe if you talk about femininity like it’s a huge crime , we need to balance our energies to be complete , virgos are also healers too

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GarnishedCrab said:

We have our different views of femininity,if you’re not feminine that’s on you , like I said I’ve met several other feminine yin signs that aren’t the stereotypical feminine rising signs , look at your birth chart to find out your issue and don’t just blame it on one placement , you could be an Aries or Leo rising and be very feminine but that’s because there are other placements, majority of the Virgo placements tend to have feminine features , MAJORITY not every last one of them on earth , genes �� exist too, because a few people come out to blame their entire personality on one placement doesn’t mean I’ll suddenly change what is naturally true , according to astrology and my observations Virgo risings have dainty feminine features and look younger than they’re, what did you expect? I have seen people who talk about looking older than they’re with a Virgo rising but does that mean the entire narrative will change to Virgo risings looking older than their age lol , Your upbringing plays a major role too especially the zodiac of the people that raised you

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Agreed: don't blame it one placement.
And don't blame it or explicate it with just one sign, such as Virgo.
You've done well to undermine your own assertion and subject line: Virgo represents our femininity.

Virgo is merely a possible element of our femininity.

Oh, c'mon, GC and Blackbery.

The "divine feminine" has been valorized and and represented favorably since second wave feminism (yes, feminism) hit in the 1970s.

Initially second wave feminism was about women having equal rights with men, and equal access into professional schools and careers with men. Since the typical guy 50 years ago was not about to look into his inner feminine, feminists shifted more towards becoming more like men, and less like Domestic Divas.

However, by about 1980, some feminists argued that women becoming like honorary men wasn't actually feminist. This resulted in goddess worship, valorizing matriarchies, and celebrating the female body, menstruation and all.

This is why, Garnished Crab, I find your insistence on the divine feminine to be charmingly antiquated. I think today, a lot of women understand gender to be a cultural construct. Different cultures across different historical periods and places have had very different ideas of femininity. There is no norm against which "feminine" or "not feminine" could be measured.

Many women simply want to get on with their lives as human beings, without having to be straightjacketed into someone else's notions of "feminine" and "masculine."

But the big problem I see with your approach is that you fixate on astrological tribes defined by static personality traits. You know, stuff like, "Virgos are like A, but Leos are like B." There's no personal growth or dynamic personal development in your approach.

What is the point, might I ask? It's like a children's game, to see if you can stereotype people by sign.

Meanwhile actual human beings live through dozens of planets, signs, houses, and aspects.

As astrologers, our job is not to pin the [astrological] tail on the donkey, but to be helpful to people. And helpfulness, after all, is a Virgo goal.

I also want to say that anybody who thinks that Virgo is a "hated" sign is totally missing the point of astrology.

We're here top help people live their best lives, as Robert Hand put it. We've lost our raison d'être if we're merely trying to straightjacket Virgo into some old notions of femininity that don't describe a lot of sun-Virgo or Virgo-rising women, let alone Virgo men.

A sign in astrology works like an adverb or adjective, modifying the key meaning of the planet or angle. A sign says how or in what manner a planet operates.

A planet in Virgo expresses itself through the element of earth (practical, material) and quality of being mutable (adaptive, flexible.) How this shapes up depends a lot on the situation of sign-ruler Mercury, and the planet's house cusp ruler-- which could be any planet.

If we want to look at women's femininity, that's the Venus department. In a mature woman, it would also be the moon. Because femininity will mean one thing to a young woman seeking to attract young men. It will mean something else to a married/partnered mother.

Although I have no planets in Virgo, I'm quite fond of people I know with their Sun in the Sign.

I'm also the only astrologer I know of who uses the exalted ancient Greek goddess Pallas Athena as symbolic of Virgo. I believe it makes good analytical sense.

On my natal chart, there's a trio of planets adding Lilith to form a stellium in my Virgo in the 3rd-4th (3' Virgo-3' Libra). There's a True Node in 29' Leo that cusps my Virgo. There should be feminine forces merged with those of Mars, Jupiter, Saturn and the importance of Sep 6-7, 8-9 and 10-11: the Cherokee Nation's holiday (my mother's father's side from OK) is on Sep 6, California's statehood day (my home state) on the 9th and the period of the 10th-12th is the Sirius new year when the Sunrise is conjunct the brightest magnitude star Sirius. The symbols of the Beloved Woman in Cherokee culture, the CA state seal has a woman, a goddess, Athena of ancient Greece represents Wisdom, and there are the degrees of Cancer in the Sirius' constellation Canis Major.

Feminism in the past century in 4 waves is they wanted civil, equal and human rights from voting in elections to working outside the home to stop sexual crimes against them to express femininity not based on false stereotypical "weakness" and "inferiority". No matter how one calls this a political or religious issue, I find feminism an important moral and ethical issue to improve women's social and cultural status to be on an equal footing with men.

blackbery said:

Whether you are 'feminine' or not is not based on your AC.

Much more complicated than that.

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You're right, then I have my own natal chart of a Venus, Ceres and Eris formed another trio or stellium conjunct my MC in Aries, and this alignment is found in many biological men who identify a woman in multiple or various ways (I said to be genderfluid many times on the forum over the decade I was a member), and my Cancer rising seems to be Lunarian from my natal Moon conjunct Sun in Aquarius, an air sign of masculinity with a strong half that appears feminine.

blackbery said:

Yep, people want to destroy the Divine Feminine (don't call me feminine they say or I'll show you just how tough I really am!)

Never mind that the eternal mother is represented by (authentic without the glitz & glamour).

Healers, therapists, naturopaths are all typical of who want the 'real deal'...the 'raw' that is not processed but comes out of the ground, out of the plants, out of nature.

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Beautifully written ♥️♥️

IleneK said:

Agreed: don't blame it one placement.
And don't blame it or explicate it with just one sign, such as Virgo.
You've done well to undermine your own assertion and subject line: Virgo represents our femininity.




Virgo is merely a possible element of our femininity.

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So what sign is apart from Virgo and the feminine planets , Cancer just represents our motherhood, you need to be logical enough to understand where I’m driving at but sadly a lot of bias in astrology by so many pressed individuals these days who make it look like everything is a competition

david starling said:

Although I have no planets in Virgo, I'm quite fond of people I know with their Sun in the Sign.

I'm also the only astrologer I know of who uses the exalted ancient Greek goddess Pallas Athena as symbolic of Virgo. I believe it makes good analytical sense.

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Which is why I said Virgo represents our femininity in all forms , motherhood , thinking abilities, passivity, health , work , routine....because she was associated with every prominent goddess with different personalities and which is why I think Virgo was made a mutable sign as it changes

blackbery said:

Yep, people want to destroy the Divine Feminine (don't call me feminine they say or I'll show you just how tough I really am!)

Never mind that the eternal mother is represented by (authentic without the glitz & glamour).

Healers, therapists, naturopaths are all typical of who want the 'real deal'...the 'raw' that is not processed but comes out of the ground, out of the plants, out of nature.

Click to expand...

The male dominated medical profession arose after female herbalist healers were burned as "witches" or imprisoned. Johan Kepler's mother was an herbalist, and he had to use his position as royal astrologer to keep her safe.

The male dominated medical profession we have now is demanding that everyone get unnaturally vaccinated against Covid, and is refusing to recognize the superiority of natural immunity compared to laboratory-created vaccines.

I totally understand GarnishedCrab , no zodiac sign represents femininity apart from planets and even if there is a sign that does it is clearly Virgo , The ruling planets are like the parents of the zodiac sign, the fact that Venus rules libra doesn’t mean libra is a feminine sign , it is a cardinal air masculine sign , the fact that Jupiter rules Pisces doesn’t mean that it’s a masculine sign, it is a mutable water sign , not to even mention that mercury is a convertible planet that takes on the energy of the sign it’s in so mercury is a feminine planet in Virgo......one thing about astrology is that it won’t apply to few people and that doesn’t mean the natural traits of the sign should be dismissed

Fire and Air signs are assertive, especially Fire.. Earth and Water signs are acceptant, especially Water.

Culturally, men are expected to be assertive, and women are expected to be acceptant. But astrology isn't about cultural gender roles, it's about temperament.

How does a Virgo man represent the Eternal Mother?

Does an Aries woman represent the Eternal Father?