The liberal message of Jesus

Oddity, you may be interested to learn that the US Chamber of Commerce (mostly Republican) supports Biden's stimulus bill. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/u-s-chamber-of-commerce-supports-bidens-covid-19-plan

2/3 of Americans support it, according to a recent poll.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahh...ion-stimulus-plan-poll-finds/?sh=4409205a4bad

I don't think the old USSR has much relevance to this thread. This thread is about the liberal message of Jesus, not historical communist governance of decades ago.

Liberalism is a moral philosophy that has undergone changes and evolution since it emerged in the 18th century. Today liberals support the protection of individual liberty among all people, which includes social justice for people who have not always enjoyed full protection under the law. Where individual initiative and personal charity are insufficient to sustain people at a minimal level, liberals generally do support a social safety net.

Canada and Scandinavia would be examples of countries with more liberal economic and political commitments. In fact, western European countries, Australia, and New Zealand in general adhere more to liberalism than does the United States.

Liberalism can operate at any government level, from federal to local

Oddity said:

If you spoke with people in Russia back during the Soviet days (I did) the biggest problem with taking care of people is that Moscow had no idea what was needed in different parts of the country. So most 'help' was useless.


The same thing holds true with federal spending in the US. Not everyplace is Washington, DC. In truth, nowhere else is like Washington, DC. Biden's bill has some programmes in there where the government administration fees far top the actual amount of grants, as well (SBA money, for one).



Central government seldom works (or works horribly inefficiently) when trying to solve local problems. The rules and regulations on what people qualify for, can spend and what they can spend it on often make no sense whatsoever for their situation. And it all ends up being a big mess.


Bring it down to the community level for administration, and things start to get better. But the federal government never does that, they love to have strings attached. Herein lies the problem with government aid, and it's not one I see being solved soon, it's anathema to bureaucrats to do that.


I simply cannot see Jesus getting involved with the government or asking them for aid. From all accounts, he wasn't that kind of man. Community and charity, yes. Government with all its strings and conditions - not so much.

Click to expand...

How much did Jesus charge for the bread and fish that fed the multitudes?

As a right-wing entrepreneur, he could have made a bundle!

OMG, David. Imagine the patent Jesus could have secured on the process of turning water into wine! He would have made billions!

But according to Cary, Jesus would have opposed income redistribution, and kept all the profits for himself.

And faith healing from a distance? Jesus could have outperformed Big Pharma and modern health care.

My vote is with Oddity. NO spiritual teacher would be involved in that satanic swamp that they call the government. They would stay away from the filth, rot & scumbags and deal directly with the people.

Just saying!

Actually, Blackbery, Jesus befriended a despised tax collector, the disciple and Gospel author Matthew; a soldier of the hated Roman occupation; and perhaps a prostitute. (There is some debate about Mary Magdalene's profession.) He stayed overnight with another tax collector, Zacchaeus, and praised his sudden generosity. Jesus healed people who were sick with both physical and mental ailments, including lepers.

Jesus himself harshly judged the Jewish clergy of his day, but he told his followers not to judge sinners.

Matthew 7:1-2. "Judge not, lest you be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

John 1:8-11 concerns a woman accused of adultery. Under the ancient Mosaic law, her punishment would have been stoning. This is the passage with the famous saying, "Let he who has never sinned throw the first stone."

Jesus said that the second greatest commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself.

We're all your neighbors, Bleckbery-- even your despised Democrats.

I find it's best to ignore your angry & insulting posts but you are now accusing me of plagiarism.

Yes, WB, those were ALL MY WORDS which came from a strange dream I had.
I posted that already so please be more mindful of making false accusations.

I ''cite' the Universe.

Thank you.

Have a nice peaceful day.

waybread said:

So this wasn't an actual dream, Blackbery, but your creative visualization, no?



But I am curious. What is the source of your scripted "dream"? You should cite it. It does not appear to be your original.

Click to expand...

david starling said:

How much did Jesus charge for the bread and fish that fed the multitudes?

Click to expand...

A life debt of praise and servitude.

waybread said:

OMG, David. Imagine the patent Jesus could have secured on the process of turning water into wine! He would have made billions!

But according to Cary, Jesus would have opposed income redistribution, and kept all the profits for himself.

And faith healing from a distance? Jesus could have outperformed Big Pharma and modern health care.

Click to expand...

Your argument that Jesus was a political liberal has collapsed, so you explore the various options of ridicule. That is very common among liberals and progressives. Most of these "dialogues" that appear in these pages are just adolescent mud-slinging.

Progressives will howl with indignation when they sense anything disrespectful from their detractors. They will demand that all left-center, center, and right-center pundits be forced to attend sensitivity training that will, of course, try to inculcate leftist beliefs.

All pretense at virtue or good-faith from the Left is utter sham. The Left are a force for evil, and their influence is a poisonous one. They indulge in the very disrespect that would like to outlaw with regard to others. "Do as I say not as I do" is their motto in truth.

The Left will smear The Entire White Race as an article of faith. They will incite non-whites to racism and animosity. They will divide the public with poisonous conspiracy theories. They try to incite a civil war.

Cary2 said:

Your argument that Jesus was a political liberal has collapsed, so you explore the various options of ridicule. That is very common among liberals and progressives. Most of these "dialogues" that appear in these pages are just adolescent mud-slinging.

Progressives will howl with indignation when they sense anything disrespectful from their detractors. They will demand that all left-center, center, and right-center pundits be forced to attend sensitivity training that will, of course, try to inculcate leftist beliefs.

All pretense at virtue or good-faith from the Left is utter sham. The Left are a force for evil, and their influence is a poisonous one. They indulge in the very disrespect that would like to outlaw with regard to others. "Do as I say not as I do" is their motto in truth.

The Left will smear The Entire White Race as an article of faith. They will incite non-whites to racism and animosity. They will divide the public with poisonous conspiracy theories. They try to incite a civil war.

Click to expand...

Your statement makes me think of a meme of bible verses I made a couple years ago.

blackbery said:

My vote is with Oddity. NO spiritual teacher would be involved in that satanic swamp that they call the government. They would stay away from the filth, rot & scumbags and deal directly with the people.

Just saying!

Click to expand...

I am curious, Blackbery. What is your affiliation with, or background in Christianity?

So you think that every last member of the government is "filth, rot & scumbags"?

Jesus said not to judge other people, because you will also be judged in the same way, measure for measure.

From Matthew 5: 43-48. 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Sorry, Cary, but my argument remains robust.

What has collapsed is your straw man (/woman) debate tactic.

Please remember that this thread is about liberalism. I don't think you quite grasp what that means. It's not about however you choose to mischaracterize "the left" as the anti-Christ. I am not a leftwing progressive, so I don't know which forum member/s you think you're attacking here.

Again, liberalism affirms social equality and a social safety net for vulnerable members of society.

Please read my preceding post to Blackbery. It is to you, too, Cary.

Cary2 said:

Your argument that Jesus was a political liberal has collapsed, so you explore the various options of ridicule. That is very common among liberals and progressives. Most of these "dialogues" that appear in these pages are just adolescent mud-slinging.

Progressives will howl with indignation when they sense anything disrespectful from their detractors. They will demand that all left-center, center, and right-center pundits be forced to attend sensitivity training that will, of course, try to inculcate leftist beliefs.

All pretense at virtue or good-faith from the Left is utter sham. The Left are a force for evil, and their influence is a poisonous one. They indulge in the very disrespect that would like to outlaw with regard to others. "Do as I say not as I do" is their motto in truth.

The Left will smear The Entire White Race as an article of faith. They will incite non-whites to racism and animosity. They will divide the public with poisonous conspiracy theories. They try to incite a civil war.

Click to expand...

Is it just me, or did someone goof up the formatting on this thread for a much-too-wide screen? How do I shrink it back?

waybread said:

Is it just me, or did someone goof up the formatting on this thread for a much-too-wide screen? How do I shrink it back?

Click to expand...

The meme I posted was a little too big, I shrunk it so should be good now.

A number of movies about Jesus have been made, and most of them were of very low quality.
Jesus is usually portrayed as a meek or insipidly pious nimrod with awkward social skills.
It was not by design, however. It was the general confusion about the man and his work.

The Bible is of limited help because it expresses contradictions about Jesus.
One would be tempted to brand him a hypocrite based on the contrast between his behavior
and his commandments.

If anyone is deeply curious, I recommend the Edgar Cayce material about Jesus.

One might be tempted to see Jesus as a man so passive that he might appear paralyzed
by his principles. He was not much like that however.

I do not put much faith in the various sects of Christianity or those people who claim to be
Christian. I believe based on my research that most of the Christian sects have missed the mark.

The Gnostics are a catch-all term for spurious Christian sects that diverged as much amongst
themselves as they diverged from the orthodoxy. Some of the Gnostic sects are fascinating,
but many are perverse. I do not, however, recommend the orthodoxy.

I don't believe that going to church every Sunday is a magical solution to life's difficulties, and
I don't believe Jesus believed that either.

According to Cayce, Jesus was our "bigger brother" who had completed his journey and who
returned on a rescue mission. It was not his mission to start a new religion or present himself
as God. He was a pattern that suggested how to navigate the struggle of life on earth. He was
a miracle worker according to Cayce, and that is a stumbling block for many who refuse to
believe in miracles.

According to John 14:12, Jesus said, "Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will
do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these,
because I am going to the Father."

He was pointing the way not claiming divinity, other than the divinity that is available to all.
As Cayce says, a big brother, a pattern, a wayshower, a master.

Cayce usually referred to him as Master, and Cayce claimed he was the first earth-bound
human to complete the journey of growth back to God and the Kingdom of Heaven.
Cayce revealed much about the past lives of Jesus that predate his arrival as Jesus.

Cayce frequently points out where the scripture gets it wrong and where scripture gets it right.
Cayce insists that Jesus taught reincarnation, and Cayce has much to say about reincarnation.

90% of ALL politicians are 'brought, bribed or blackmailed'.

And, yep, I'll continue to 'judge' others & hold them accountable for their crimes & corruption especially when it comes to abusing children & stealing money from the taxpayer.

We can't allow pedophiles, rapists & criminals to get away with it because you think Jesus wouldn't want it.


'AN EYE FOR AN EYE'.


I hope they take the traitors & pedos & execute them by firing squads. They are crimes that warrant the death penalty.

waybread said:

So you think that every last member of the government is "filth, rot & scumbags"?

Jesus said not to judge other people, because you will also be judged in the same way, measure for measure.
"

Click to expand...

No, Blackbery.

I don't think you were straight with us. To have that kind of detailed dream recall about a long precise narrative with all those biblical snippets would be extraordinarily unusual.

Cary, I am surprised that you find Edgar Cayce a more reliable source on Jesus than the Bible.

But I am starting to see the problem. Because what Jesus said in the NT was:

Luke: 27 “... Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."

waybread said:

Cary, I am surprised that you find Edgar Cayce a more reliable source on Jesus than the Bible.

But I am starting to see the problem. Because what Jesus said in the NT was:

Luke: 27 “... Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."

Click to expand...

I accept that is a quote of Jesus to the best of the recall of the author who wrote it. I accept it was Jesus's sentiment.

When Jesus is talking about love, he is not talking about kissy, kissy, hug. He is talking about the "care" in "don't you care?". Care means love. It is our job to care. And it is a feature of reincarnation that no one makes it until we all make it, so we are charged with the well being of humanity, incarnate and not.

The Bible enjoys contributions from the Law and the Prophets. Much of the spiritual message of the Bible comes from Jewish prophets. Prophets were psychics. After years of study, I accept that Edgar Cayce was a prophet as much as any in the Bible.

Prophets have tended to open the crack of revelation a little wider, then a little wider, gradually over history. God is a mystery.

Studying Cayce has enriched my understanding of Jesus and his work. Cayce fills in many gaps in the Bible.

I see.

So you are still calling me a liar & accusing me of plagiarism.


I KNEW you wouldn't apologize.

That's who you are.

waybread said:

No, Blackbery.

I don't think you were straight with us. To have that kind of detailed dream recall about a long precise narrative with all those biblical snippets would be extraordinarily unusual.

Click to expand...