abisert
Member
I'm still here, but will I still be able to study astrology?
I've been banned from astrology because of my Christianity
- Thread starter abisert
- Start date
I'm still here, but will I still be able to study astrology?
Tessie
Banned
I used to be a avid fan of astrology until my dad catched me on a astrology website, and banned me from that website. Two days later, he found out that I've been reading books on astrology, and told me I shouldn't be doing this.
To be honest, I do find it easy to stay away. But, sometimes I think he was unfair, and I get really bored, so I do a little more research. Even if it doesn't turn out as a sin or not by myself, I'm violating the Fifth Commandment to obey my parents, and it's just heavy weight.
I would really like your opinion on this situation.
EDIT: To give more background information, my dad is one of the people who think of it as magic and witchcraft. Is he right?
One of the reasons astrology may be defined as witchcraft by the Bible is because of its prognostic value. We can take this right back to the Garden of Eden. Alongside the practice of omen-reading, we see that God communicates to His people. If one can receive direct guidance from God, why do people turn to omen-reading? The Garden of Eden shows that people want to have the knowledge that God has. Rather than prioritizing God's directive, they prioritized rebellion. When the pursuit of that forbidden knowledge took place, so that we can be wise, we entered the fall, just as God predicted. It was not a wise move, after all.
The Bible is a book about God but faith is the means by which believers can walk with God. Not all believers choose to walk with God (James 2:14-26). When Jesus said, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.,” Jesus showed we can’t do both, follow Him and pursue simultaneously our own agenda (Matt. 16:24-25; Matt. 10:34-39; John 20:29). Both options facilitate spiritual growth. Jesus showed which one direction is life. As sinners, we'll never comprehend all the ways we need protection from the devil. Our inclination is to sin but our spiritual blindness necessitates obedience (to God).
The Bible says Christians are recognizable by their spiritual fruits. These spiritual fruits are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Gal. 5:22-23). These fruits have to be developed through Him. The predictive value of astrology may be seen to impede, both, righteous development and God's Will. Why? Because, for example, if you've prayed for an answer/solution, God tends to come through at the 59th minute of the 11th hour. He does this to test our faith, and a tested faith is an active faith. If we do not trust Him and seek an omen-reading instead, what does that say about our faith, patience, etc.?
God wants to be involved and to guide every aspect of our life but He has given us free will to decide if we want Him to guide us. A common argument for the godly use of astrology is that God made the planets et al., so we should be using their movement as a prognostic. A counter argument to this may be that God also made the devil. Just because astrology gives knowledge, at best, it gives only half the story and we are deceived when we think its the whole story. An argument against study is that we use what we know, and all astrological knowledge may no be the directive of God's Will. All nature is there before us but pursuing God's directive is invaluable.
I can give several examples of God's directive versus astrological directive. About a year ago God distinctly told me to do X. I cast a horary chart and the chart predicted a specific very bad thing would happen if I did X. I chose to follow God. The immediate result was, as the horary chart had predicted, the bad thing happened. It was the most painful experience of my life. However, I cannot emphasize enough how it was the most necessary. It was through being smashed into tiny pieces that I, and the other situation X, were able to be molded by Him into a far healthier version, albeit through pain. It's like the Bible says, you can pursue the world, and get it, but it's meaningless. Pride in astrology can be a facility for misdirection.
To place your question in proper perspective, there is a reason why Jesus used the most powerful spiritual weapon, the sword, in the context of parents (see Matt. 10:34-39) because, the scripture, “Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.,” can be twisted to facilitate idolatry but that was never it’s meaning (2 Tim. 3:1-5). As you get older, there may be some things your parents advise which are not God's Will for your life, specifically. It is a Christian's duty to pursue God's directive in all things. He gives it to everyone (Jer. 29:13). If you have that, and you trust God and do His Will, even when it's hard, you will know what to do about astrology...
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graay ghost
Well-known member
I'm still trying to figure out the religious difference between say, casting an horary chart and running a climate change model simulation. Though the methods (and scientific validity) are vastly different, in both cases you're essentially trying to predict the future and find guidance on how to proceed without divine inspiration. It seems to me that divination has become a necessary and even banal part of modern life. I mean, I check the weather report for a week into the future all the time...
tsmall
Premium Member
I'm going to have to do this with as few quotes as possible. The Bible is full of oblique references to astrology, and anyone who has even a passing knowledge of kabbalah is completely aware of this.
The first quote from the link:
Is very obviously about sect, the lights, prognostication, "as above so below..."
Which directly shows the correleation between astrology in the Old Testiment and how neo-tradtional astrologers use it today...as a way around your "fate." Gosh, go read Ibn Ezra.
This one from Revelation is awesome in the astrological imagery
Tessie
Banned
Thank you, graay ghost and JA, for your thought-provoking questions which require me to add further detail to my account. Your argument is a valid one. However, it does not contradict mine because my faith is in God alone. There are many prognostic methods, you can name them all. I, for one, consult doctors, meterologists and astrologers. I consult even the homeless person. But, at the end of the day, because humans are fundamentally flawed, I trust the guidance of only One. There have been times when I may have not understood God's guidance from the outset and have sought guidance from elsewhere and then, when faced with their directive, God has told me it's not the right directive. So I don't take it or, I've taken it, and regretted it. He's never failed me so far. The sciences, in general, assume the materialist philosophy as a presupposition often to patients' detriment. The Holy Spirit is something else, entirely.
graay ghost
Well-known member
I suppose it's different for people for whom the voices trying to "guide" them very clearly hate them.
graay ghost
Well-known member
If you want a simple answer, you should probably ask your priest or minister or whatever.
Tessie
Banned
Yes, it is different because God does not hate us.
Tessie
Banned
The Bible tells you to seek God on the matter. I suggest you do that.
graay ghost
Well-known member
This may be true for you, but there are many different types of people in this world who are not you.
Tessie
Banned
Thanks for explaining that to me. I was not referring to myself only. He is a loving God. His nature does not depend on us.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Magi consulted omens of the stars and found the baby Jesus
as Osamenor points out
as Osamenor points out
graay ghost
Well-known member
Sometimes being "loving" is not good, though.
waybread
Well-known member
That's up to you. You'll see that there is a big diversity of opinion here.
Stephen, the idea that Abraham invented astrology seems to have originated in a body of extra-biblical lore and commentary known as the Midrash, not the Talmud, which is primarily commentary on points of law. Throughout Jewish history there has been debate over whether astrology is permitted, significant, beneficial, or forbidden. Astrology had its major Jewish exposition in a type of Jewish mysticism called Kabbalah. Most rabbis today take a dim view of it.
Judaism has been a hugely diverse religion over the course of its history. The mainstream rabbis were critical of Jewish mysticism, and even some of the mystics didn't think anyone should study it prior to the age of 40.
Unlike today, when the kababalah has been popularized.
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waybread
Well-known member
This depends upon which denomination you want to ask. The mainline churches do not question scientific forecasts, and the Pope has come out as an environmentalist. Fundamentalists who still think Darwin's theory of evolution is bogus are not likely to promote science in other areas.
We are learning now that not only is global change real, but that major energy corporations suppressed their own data and lobbied against effective action.
Small-scale prediction has never been a problem for Christianity. Think of all of the climate lore: "Evening red, morning gray, sends the traveller on his way. Evening gray, morning red, brings the rain upon his head." Meteorological prediction is based upon observable measurable events, and generally includes a probability of error statement, like "30% chance of rain."
To me the bigger message is not to rely on astrological prognostication. Stress that the future is up to God. We can try to read the future in a horoscope, but it is always conditional. Rely on your faith to get you through the future, whatever it brings you.
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tsmall
Premium Member
This would actually be a great horary question.
He is an indifferent God, whose will we cannot fathom unless we query it directly. Hence, the word "divination." Why else would a tornado touch down on one person's house, and yet skip the next entirely? Why else are saints and sinners alike subject to the suffering that is ubiquitous on this earth?
I totally love that part.
Was it Al Biruni? Al somebody who only came to astrology at the age of 42...Ok, but what if you don't believe in a monothestic God? Or, what if you believe in a monotheistic God, and he is the same God of the three most argumentitive structured religions on the planet today?
Every Persian text I have read, going down to the early Renaissance astrologers contains the phrase "Inshallah," meaning "If God wills."
What I'm getting from the replies to the thread is that the OP shouldn't bother studying astrology. Because his/her life is going to unfold according to what God wills, with or without astrology.
waybread
Well-known member
tsmall, I am trying to reply to the OP. S/he has not identified his/her denomination, but serious anti-astrology statements tend to be in the more conservative evangelical Protestant denominations, as well as in the catechism of the Catholic church. I once did a Google search on this topic and found a range of individual anti-astrology members of the clergy, but not with such a strong denominational backing as among the evangelicals and Catholics.
So I would intuit that abisert's faith does teach about a loving God. In the above denominations, so far as I can tell, bad things that happen to good people or to innocent children are not attributed to an indifferent God, but to a God with a larger plan or purpose that humans cannot always glimpse.
Moreover, Christianity is not a fatalistic religion, in any denomination of which I'm aware; at least not since the Calvinistic/Puritan days of belief in predestination. I would prefer to call "free will" moral choice, because nobody has perfect free will. But unless we are severely disabled we have the ability, day to day, to choose a kind word or an insulting word, a kind gesture or an indifferent or self-centered gesture.
Even in fatalistic Islam, we still have this concept of moral choice.
I think there is a real quandary for abisert, particularly if s/he is of a young age.
Ultimately s/he will be of an age to make an independent determination of whether or not to choose astrology. S/he could certainly choose it now at great cost to his/her family life and parental relationships, because it would involve subterfuge and perhaps lying to them. And maybe s/he will make this choice. I'm not prepared to think I know better than abisert's parents or pastor here, at this stage of life.
So I would intuit that abisert's faith does teach about a loving God. In the above denominations, so far as I can tell, bad things that happen to good people or to innocent children are not attributed to an indifferent God, but to a God with a larger plan or purpose that humans cannot always glimpse.
Moreover, Christianity is not a fatalistic religion, in any denomination of which I'm aware; at least not since the Calvinistic/Puritan days of belief in predestination. I would prefer to call "free will" moral choice, because nobody has perfect free will. But unless we are severely disabled we have the ability, day to day, to choose a kind word or an insulting word, a kind gesture or an indifferent or self-centered gesture.
Even in fatalistic Islam, we still have this concept of moral choice.
I think there is a real quandary for abisert, particularly if s/he is of a young age.
Ultimately s/he will be of an age to make an independent determination of whether or not to choose astrology. S/he could certainly choose it now at great cost to his/her family life and parental relationships, because it would involve subterfuge and perhaps lying to them. And maybe s/he will make this choice. I'm not prepared to think I know better than abisert's parents or pastor here, at this stage of life.