suns fall in libra
- Thread starter socrates
- Start date
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
To assist with responding to your question
would be helpful if you name
the various currently unspecified 'hellenic astrologers'
that your comment vaguely refers to
As well as these apparently numerous specific quotes
comprising their alleged claims
socrates
Well-known member
To assist with responding to your question
would be helpful if you name
the various currently unspecified 'hellenic astrologers'
that your comment vaguely refers to
As well as these apparently numerous specific quotes
comprising their alleged claims
http://www.zodiac-x-files.com/signs/aquarius-sun.html
certainly.At skyscript many avoid the slow planets,but not all.and the one in the link talks about aquarian rebellious nature
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
A few famous Librans
Aleister Crowley
Groucho Marx
Heinrich Himmler
John Lennon
Bob Geldof
Reverend Jesse Jackson
Sarah Ferguson
Friedrich Nietzsche
Oscar Wilde
Evel Knievel
John Profumo
Timothy Leary
Sylvia Kars
Lee Harvey Oswald
Fred West
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
The link has no quotes from specific 'hellenic astrologers'
socrates
Well-known member
i dont remembre all but Mark the moderator is oneThe link has no quotes from specific 'hellenic astrologers'
socrates
Well-known member
A few famous Librans
Aleister Crowley
Groucho Marx
Heinrich Himmler
John Lennon
Bob Geldof
Reverend Jesse Jackson
Sarah Ferguson
Friedrich Nietzsche
Oscar Wilde
Evel Knievel
John Profumo
Timothy Leary
Sylvia Kars
Lee Harvey Oswald
Fred West
cherry picked?
the point is that a lot is made out of aquarius the rebel,because of Uranus or Sun being detrimentbut nothing is said about libra, save that theyre often gay,like Oscar Wilde and two guys i met.
ive never seen a rebellious libra,what they do is try to make up for their weaknesses by looking morally superior,like in "you guys have no manners,dont know how to treat a lady" etc
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Sun is in detriment in Aquarius,
Aquarius is the traditional domicile of Saturn
The sole link provided
is a traditional link
discussing Sun being in detriment in Aquarius
Aquarius is of course, as already mentioned
a traditional domicile of Saturn
Sun is not in detriment in Libra
So therefore 'nothing is said about Libra'
at the link provided
Not all Librans are gay
and
Not all Aquarians are rebels
So these Librans are ignored.....
Aleister Crowley
Groucho Marx
Heinrich Himmler
John Lennon
Bob Geldof
Reverend Jesse Jackson
Sarah Ferguson
Friedrich Nietzsche
Oscar Wilde
Evel Knievel
John Profumo
Timothy Leary
Sylvia Kars
Lee Harvey Oswald
Fred West
Obviously then
Librans vary,
dependent on the sign location
and house location
of Libra's domicile ruler Venus
and
the sign location
and house location
of Libra's exalted ruler Saturn
all of which proves
that generalization
according to sun sign alone
is unreliable
socrates
Well-known member
Sun is in detriment in Aquarius,
Aquarius is the traditional domicile of Saturn
The sole link provided
is a traditional link
discussing Sun being in detriment in Aquarius
Aquarius is of course, as already mentioned
a traditional domicile of Saturn
Sun is not in detriment in Libra
So therefore 'nothing is said about Libra'
at the link provided
Not all Librans are gay
and
Not all Aquarians are rebels
So these Librans are ignored.....
Aleister Crowley
Groucho Marx
Heinrich Himmler
John Lennon
Bob Geldof
Reverend Jesse Jackson
Sarah Ferguson
Friedrich Nietzsche
Oscar Wilde
Evel Knievel
John Profumo
Timothy Leary
Sylvia Kars
Lee Harvey Oswald
Fred West
Obviously then
Librans vary,
dependent on the sign location
and house location
of Libra's domicile ruler Venus
and
the sign location
and house location
of Libra's exalted ruler Saturn
all of which proves
that generalization
according to sun sign alone
is unreliable
then how do astrologers know sun sign traits in the 1st place?
how do they know capricorn is ambitious,etc
sun is in fall in libra by the way
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
These 'sun sign traits' are based on/derived from
thousands of years of observations by ancient visual astrologers
who observed the real skies
and not computers
or computer generated charts
i.e.
ancient astrologers noticed
by direct observation
that people
born when certain groupings of stars
were rising
or setting
or directly overhead
exhibited characteristics in common
Exactly
By the way,
Detriment
is very different
from
Fall
QUOTE
UNDERSTANDING PLANETARY DIGNITY AND DEBILITY http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig4.html
'…...As in taking the Fortitudes of the Planets, great care ought to be had, so their Debilities must be observed with no less care and prudence; wherein I advise you to beware of the Effects or Influence of a Planet when he is in Detriment; rather than when he is in Fall.
For a Planet in his Detriment is like a person cast out of all his Estate without hopes of Recovery, whereas the Fall shows but a present subjection unto a misfortune with hopes of Recovery. (William Lilly, 'Choice Astrological Aphorisms' Merlini Anglici Ephemeris, 1676)....'
QUOTE
'…..If a planet is situated in a sign which opposes its own it is said to be in detriment, a word which literally means to be harmed or damaged. Since a planet's own sign is regarded as its stronghold, it follows that the furthest sign from this should be viewed as its most vulnerable position.
Similarly, just as signs of exaltation are said to elevate the planetary influences to their highest level, their opposing signs are known as signs of fall, because here the planets suffer loss of strength and a reduction of potency.....'
QUOTE
'…..detriment or fall is precarious condition, especially if planet is peregrine/otherwise afflicted. Many planets debilitated in nativity shows obscurity/low birth.
" wretched, poor, low of birth and constantly plagued by had luck" - Firmicus(Mathesis, 2.3.3).
How planet 'responds' to another sign from which it receives an aspect:
"Be not too confident either of a sextile or trine Aspect in violent Signs, nor out of those Signs in which the Planets behold one another, yet essentially suffer" - William Lilly
Capricorn Venus benefits more from Taurus trine
than Virgo trine
Taurus associates Venus with her sign of dominion
Virgo links Venus to her sign of fall.....'
socrates
Well-known member
These 'sun sign traits' are based on/derived from
thousands of years of observations by ancient visual astrologers
who observed the real skies
and not computers
or computer generated charts
i.e.
ancient astrologers noticed
by direct observation
that people
born when certain groupings of stars
were rising
or setting
or directly overhead
exhibited characteristics in common
Exactly
By the way,
Detriment
is very different
from
Fall
QUOTE
UNDERSTANDING PLANETARY DIGNITY AND DEBILITY http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig4.html
'…...As in taking the Fortitudes of the Planets, great care ought to be had, so their Debilities must be observed with no less care and prudence; wherein I advise you to beware of the Effects or Influence of a Planet when he is in Detriment; rather than when he is in Fall.
For a Planet in his Detriment is like a person cast out of all his Estate without hopes of Recovery, whereas the Fall shows but a present subjection unto a misfortune with hopes of Recovery. (William Lilly, 'Choice Astrological Aphorisms' Merlini Anglici Ephemeris, 1676)....'
QUOTE
'…..If a planet is situated in a sign which opposes its own it is said to be in detriment, a word which literally means to be harmed or damaged. Since a planet's own sign is regarded as its stronghold, it follows that the furthest sign from this should be viewed as its most vulnerable position.
Similarly, just as signs of exaltation are said to elevate the planetary influences to their highest level, their opposing signs are known as signs of fall, because here the planets suffer loss of strength and a reduction of potency.....'
QUOTE
'…..detriment or fall is precarious condition, especially if planet is peregrine/otherwise afflicted. Many planets debilitated in nativity shows obscurity/low birth.
" wretched, poor, low of birth and constantly plagued by had luck" - Firmicus(Mathesis, 2.3.3).
How planet 'responds' to another sign from which it receives an aspect:
"Be not too confident either of a sextile or trine Aspect in violent Signs, nor out of those Signs in which the Planets behold one another, yet essentially suffer" - William Lilly
Capricorn Venus benefits more from Taurus trine
than Virgo trine
Taurus associates Venus with her sign of dominion
Virgo links Venus to her sign of fall.....'
1000s of years?
that still doesnt answer the question on sun signs.With so many influences,like planets,angles,lots etc it would be very difficult,even today,what belongs to the sun sign and what doesnt
And anyway id be surprised if,with the means we have today,modern astrologers wouldnt do a better job
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
A definition of your intended meaning would be helpful
socrates
Well-known member
A definition of your intended meaning would be helpful
youre trying to avoid the question.
ask there who doesnt use the slow planets. Youll get many positive responses
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
The title of thread is 'suns fall in libra'
Fall is a debility
TABLE OF COMMONLY USED ESSENTIAL DIGNITIES AND DEBILITIES - there are alternatives
I think the Sun is said to Fall in Libra because if we use the equator, Libra is at the 0 point of the equatorial band, so one could state that what happens here is that the Sun "falls" toward the equator when in Libra: personally I believe that the entire matter of exaltation and fall, arose when the equator-rather than the ecliptic-was the key circle in astrology (that would have been in ancient Egyptian and Sumerian times-note that the equator remains the "key circle" to this day, in Chinese astrology)
mutableflame
Well-known member
I could give the systematic reasons for how Astrologers delineate the fall of the Sun to be in Libra, but more to the point of the symbolism in human nature:
A true Libra (for this purpose it's raw archetypical form rather than the practical reality of it's incarnations) doesn't emulate the raw characteristics of the Sun. Libras focus a great deal on others, and have a strong need for a partner or general companionship. They have traits of compromise, consideration, diplomacy, indecisiveness. All of which serve to filter the raw aspects/traits of what the Sun represents in Astrology.
A true Libra (for this purpose it's raw archetypical form rather than the practical reality of it's incarnations) doesn't emulate the raw characteristics of the Sun. Libras focus a great deal on others, and have a strong need for a partner or general companionship. They have traits of compromise, consideration, diplomacy, indecisiveness. All of which serve to filter the raw aspects/traits of what the Sun represents in Astrology.
mutableflame
Well-known member
Though they are not devoid of the Sun's traits, just filter it's raw expressions. Libra's aren't necessarily altruistic nor codependent and can be rather egocentric like any Sun sign.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
A natal chart with sun Libra delineates differently dependent on Venus sign and house location
as well as aspects to and from Venus to other natal planets
Consider also Saturn
because
Saturn is exalted ruler of Libra
therefore
sign and house location of natal Saturn is another factor to consider
when delineating Libra Sun natal charts
Ptolemy gives several "reasons" for the exaltation (and, by implication, the fall) of planets in specific signs, in his "Tetrabiblos"-although I am not a "Ptolemy worshipper" by any means, still he has (in my opinion) many valuable points to make in the "Tetrabiblos" and in the "Almagest".
socrates
Well-known member
ye they dont care about latitude,which spares them our problems