Count the T's, Please

There are 8.

I'd like to use my lifeline please.

I've started interpreting this chart, looks like an introverted bucket with Saturn as the handle in the 10th.

A full 1st house, lots of fire and lions happening over there... Neptune twenty minutes into Scorpio, the only water sign on the chart; astro123 says the most powerful planet is Jupiter, with the Sun and Neptune virtually tied for second; 7/10ths of the bodies in question are in angular houses, and all the cadent houses are void...

...and of course, our system heavyweights, Jupiter and Neptune duking it out with Saturn, with our poor blind primate native eternally cornered betwixt.

I'm more than willing to treat this tremendous tumult of T-squares as one big T-square if someone would grant me divine sanction to do so.

Any comments on that nifty blue martian triangle would also be welcomed, as well as any discourse on that plutonized moon and its relation to those big ol' heavies out there. (My personal idea is that Luna is a double-agent playing these planetary monsters against each other for her own twisted amusement.)

That's about as much as I'm capable of perceiving as of today. Any and all insights would be appreciated and enjoyed immensely. I'm hard-boiled and I take my whisky straight, so you may save the sugar-coating for the kids.

IMO, you have just one T-Square: the mutable one with the Neptune Opp Saturn and the Sun apex, along with the Grand Air Trine.

Thank you very much! I *definitely* suffer from Neptune vs Saturn syndrome, without a doubt. Whatever reservations I held about astrology as an empirical tool are satisfied, based on this correlation alone! For, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that the struggle here has come to define my adult life.

I have a pair of questions right off the bat:

How did Zarathu make that beeline, right to the crux of the chart? Years of experience? A secret planetary table?

Is there a specific nomenclature or phrasing for discussing planetary relationships? For example, is there a difference between 'Neptune Opp Saturn' and 'Saturn Opp Neptune'?

Thank you!

Is this a question?

tshanno said:

I *definitely* suffer from Neptune vs Saturn syndrome, without a doubt.

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tshanno, I'd like to hear more about this if you're wiling to share.
A sort of t-square between Saturn and Neptune with Mercury in the middle - as you have - is one of the key features of my own chart. Except your Mercury is in Virgo and mine's on the other side of the wheel, in Pisces. But I'd still like to hear more about how you experience it...

completely unrelated to what you wanted to know. but great post.

tshanno said:

There are 8.

I'd like to use my lifeline please.

I've started interpreting this chart, looks like an introverted bucket with Saturn as the handle in the 10th.

A full 1st house, lots of fire and lions happening over there... Neptune twenty minutes into Scorpio, the only water sign on the chart; astro123 says the most powerful planet is Jupiter, with the Sun and Neptune virtually tied for second; 7/10ths of the bodies in question are in angular houses, and all the cadent houses are void...

...and of course, our system heavyweights, Jupiter and Neptune duking it out with Saturn, with our poor blind primate native eternally cornered betwixt.

I'm more than willing to treat this tremendous tumult of T-squares as one big T-square if someone would grant me divine sanction to do so.

Any comments on that nifty blue martian triangle would also be welcomed, as well as any discourse on that plutonized moon and its relation to those big ol' heavies out there. (My personal idea is that Luna is a double-agent playing these planetary monsters against each other for her own twisted amusement.)

That's about as much as I'm capable of perceiving as of today. Any and all insights would be appreciated and enjoyed immensely. I'm hard-boiled and I take my whisky straight, so you may save the sugar-coating for the kids.

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Not likely a secret planetary table. It just comes from an understanding of aspects and depositors.

tshanno said:

How did Zarathu make that beeline, right to the crux of the chart? Years of experience? A secret planetary table?

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A pact with the Devil?

It couldn't be a pact with the devil, Zarathu--he would have certainly mentioned you to me by now!

Does anyone know the answer to the following?

tshanno said:

Is there a specific nomenclature or phrasing for discussing planetary relationships? For example, is there a difference between 'Neptune Opp Saturn' and 'Saturn Opp Neptune'?

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Birch Dragon, I've found a paper on the subject that you may like. It's a quick read, here is the link to the pdf:

http://www.archaijournal.org/09_Archai_Tarnas_Ideal_and_Real_p1_v2.pdf

I would say that Saturn and Neptune are in open opposition within me. I don't know if the fact that it's my Sun (and others) that are being squared by them has anything to do with the fact that these battles are taking place within the bounds of my conscious mind or not.

Insofar as how this alignment has percolated out for me, well, the title of the paper I've attached says it all: 'The Ideal and the Real.'

For me, I can say that I've become recalcitrant and disillusioned. Something of an angry underachiever.

The Saturnian current runs as follows: I know full-well that everything in life costs something, and 'even love costs trouble.' Everyone is required to take the bad with the good, to work to maintain our homes and our relationships, et cetera. This is in the nature of limitation, the bounds of the world, the bounds of enterprise.

To the perception of the other current within me, these bounds are bondage. 'Whatever you have, has you.' Explicit forms with their half-measures and mixed-bag of 'benefits versus liabilities' are repulsive. How much better to dream, to Paint in Possibility, than to enslave yourself to something or someone than probably won't make you happy anyway?

The Saturn current tears into the Neptunian one like a 3rd-generation United States Marine father might tear into his son upon learning that all the boy wants to do is illustrate comic books and smoke pot. It's a superego thing, a stern inner parent that sees a life in shambles and wants to put it right.

Yet no promise of commitment to anything or anyone can be extracted from the Neptunian, no matter how terrible life may get, no matter what is lost; Neptune will only reaffirm it's own commitment to its own nebulous and unquantifiable vision, and recede ever further from anything like a real life.

Saturn yells "Do this!" and Neptune asks "Why should I?"

Saturn is full of linear demands and Neptune is full of circular excuses.

I don't know enough about astrology to comment on Mercury or its role here, Birch Dragon, the above is all that I can contribute with confidence, and that under the guise of The Sun squared by Neptune Opp Saturn.

Another question about this chart:

Are not Jupiter and Saturn also opposed, or am I imagining things again?

tshanno said:

Another question about this chart:

Are not Jupiter and Saturn also opposed, or am I imagining things again?

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Oppositions can be read either way, doesn't matter. So Neptune opp Saturn and Saturn opp Neptune would makes no difference.

and your Jupiter is also opposed to Saturn, most use an orb of 8 degrees. So it's within orb.

ashriia said:

Oppositions can be read either way, doesn't matter. So Neptune opp Saturn and Saturn opp Neptune would makes no difference.

and your Jupiter is also opposed to Saturn, most use an orb of 8 degrees. So it's within orb.

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Generally the faster moving planet is said to be aspecting the slower moving planet. What does make a differnet is the power and friction level of the planets and of the aspects between the planets. If you want a prinout of that for yourself using astrodynes(go to me website below in the signature, and scroll down on the left to ASTRODYNES/COSMODYNES to read more), if you pm me an anonymous email address I will be happy to send you a jpg of what one of my programs says using the system(which I cannot imagine doing astrology without). Not a come one for further offers, just one out of the goodness of my heart, such that it is.

But in practicality of interpretation they don't mean a great deal in difference.

You've posted a lot, and I'm trying to figure out what exactly your question or questions are.

Could you be a bit more succinct and label them with numbers?

Z

Zarathu said:

If you want a prinout of that for yourself using astrodynes(go to me website below in the signature, and scroll down on the left to ASTRODYNES/COSMODYNES to read more)

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In a different thread, you were so adamant about the value of these programs that I set about getting them immediately. I've been to your helpful website and followed the links, downloaded AstroWin and Astro123, and obtained the astrodyne printout. I'm digging into the astrodyne manual on your website so that I might interpret it.

Question 1) When entering data into Astro123, I am shown not one, but two input boxes. One of them is 'Natal Input Data' and the other is 'Diurnal Input Data.' I was unsure what to enter into the 'Diurnal Input Data,' so I checked the 'Use Natal Data' box, and the Natal Data overwrote the Diurnal Data. Will my astrodynes be accurate?

Question 2) Should I buy a pair of yellow sneakers next Tuesday? (Sorry, that's a troll/joke. Couldn't resist. Bear with me.)

tshanno said:

Question 1) When entering data into Astro123, I am shown not one, but two input boxes. One of them is 'Natal Input Data' and the other is 'Diurnal Input Data.' I was unsure what to enter into the 'Diurnal Input Data,' so I checked the 'Use Natal Data' box, and the Natal Data overwrote the Diurnal Data. Will my astrodynes be accurate?

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Haven't used the program for more than 14 years. I have no idea. I purchased AstrolDeluxe and Solar Fire Gold, and both of them have Astrodynes in them.

Astro123 is fabulous for free. But for $169 USD, Astroldeluxe blows it to kingdom come.