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  #1  
Unread 09-25-2020, 07:24 PM
AquaVenusian AquaVenusian is offline
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BPD or Bipolar?

I am a person with a very strong knowledge of discerning behaviors ... I often can't even explain how can I do it !! In this chart in question, I spent a lot of time with this person, and I must admit that it was very difficult for me to recognize the psychological traits in her, because it was never very evident, as you can see she has a moon in the 4th house next to pluto in scorpio ... at first I found a person who was just shy and reserved, maybe inadequate in relationships !!
But over the years I took off my pink glasses and noticed more perverse nuances of the personality ... like a more covert narcissistic behavior ... many insecurities very well buried and hidden, a lot of veiled possessiveness, and a fragile ego who leaps out to attack and hurt whoever and whatever for FEAR of revealing her authentic self !!
I spent a lot of time relating to this hidden SELF, with this submerged SELF, with this fragile SELF, to find out that she didn't want to relate showing her true and authentic SELF ... she wanted a relationship with all her masks ... all this time I was taking one after another mask ... to show that it was safe to relate in this way ... however, it didn't work very well !! From the beginning I felt that I was relating to the beast (from the movie beast and beauty) ... the improvements were almost insignificant ... like crumbs thrown at me !! She does absolutely everything to cover her side (moon / cancer = vulnerability) putting out people she possibly loves at risk !!
I have a lot of luggage to explain about this strange and difficult to identify behavior !!
What impresses me most is that the likely escape of stability from the trine planets between Capricorn and Taurus is almost nonexistent !! the cycles are very intense and drastic, self-sabotage is very evident .... but she has a very slow improvement that she chooses to do, but it is almost non-existent compared to the unstable side !!
Perhaps more prone to bipolar disorder ??
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Unread 10-26-2020, 11:15 PM
Lin Lin is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

Her chart is very specific....about several types of dysfunction. Possibly different types of abuse and definitely family dysfunction dynamics. It's very easy for me to see because of that 6th house pile of of planets and Pluto on the 4th cusp - opposing planets on the MC.

The reason you didn't recognize the 6th house issues in the beginning has to do with the way YOUR chart and her chart connect (synastry).

And yes, Pluto in Scorpio on the IC is VERY self protective and secretive....because "if" she was abused as a child then she has a syndrome which includes ''shame'' as one of the dynamics. And why would she want someone to ''peel her psyche'' until she was totally without protection? Some people NEED their illusions to survive.

You did her no service.

I learned this in the process of learning astrology. There are people who want ''all the truth'' that I can find...and they ASK for it. But there are many many people I've met that do NOT want a ''profile'' of their authentic self.
And they do NOT ask. And in the past when I alluded to astrology and gave unsolicited information, this type of person would either not continue to build the relationship or get angry at me for giving information that was unasked for. It was a hard lesson. Because when you know this subject you have information NOT provided by the person. So in a way it's invasive. In fact, unless this gal gave you permission to use her chart, it was probably wrong of you to show it.

As for the trines, they have helped her control her image....and allowed her to keep her secrets and illusions.

The more you try to ''deconstruct her, the more she will pull away from you.

As for ''diagnosing" her, that is not the job of the astrologer. That's a job for a medical professional.

LIN
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Last edited by Lin; 10-26-2020 at 11:33 PM.
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Unread 10-27-2020, 01:06 AM
AquaVenusian AquaVenusian is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

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Originally Posted by Lin View Post
Her chart is very specific....about several types of dysfunction. Possibly different types of abuse and definitely family dysfunction dynamics. It's very easy for me to see because of that 6th house pile of of planets and Pluto on the 4th cusp - opposing planets on the MC.

The reason you didn't recognize the 6th house issues in the beginning has to do with the way YOUR chart and her chart connect (synastry).

And yes, Pluto in Scorpio on the IC is VERY self protective and secretive....because "if" she was abused as a child then she has a syndrome which includes ''shame'' as one of the dynamics. And why would she want someone to ''peel her psyche'' until she was totally without protection? Some people NEED their illusions to survive.

You did her no service.

I learned this in the process of learning astrology. There are people who want ''all the truth'' that I can find...and they ASK for it. But there are many many people I've met that do NOT want a ''profile'' of their authentic self.
And they do NOT ask. And in the past when I alluded to astrology and gave unsolicited information, this type of person would either not continue to build the relationship or get angry at me for giving information that was unasked for. It was a hard lesson. Because when you know this subject you have information NOT provided by the person. So in a way it's invasive. In fact, unless this gal gave you permission to use her chart, it was probably wrong of you to show it.

As for the trines, they have helped her control her image....and allowed her to keep her secrets and illusions.

The more you try to ''deconstruct her, the more she will pull away from you.

As for ''diagnosing" her, that is not the job of the astrologer. That's a job for a medical professional.

LIN
Okay, before I clarify a few things, first of all, thank you for opening my mind on the limits of others on the question of authenticity, which we must understand and respect before digging ugly truths about others. Very insightful on your part !!
So, I'm a little confused about being able to post the synastry chart here on this thread, but I'll post it anyway !!
Now, about me posting her chart, it may be inappropriate because we are no longer together, but we have already done astrological synastry analysis with an introspection methodology and we always talk about it ... I am posting only because, as you said, in all the time we have been together I was very hurt and all I did was help her to progress in every way in her life, and what did I get ?! stabs and more stabs in my heart !! Please, I don't want to build a victim image here, because I was conscious and I noticed the red flags from the beginning, but I thought that with time, I could bring many positive changes to her, which I really did !! But just to end bankrupt in every way you can imagine and still deal with a disregard on her part in my direction !! So, to finish the question about her knowing that I use her chart for analysis, she knows, because, we have always had compatibility in amateur analytical psychological issues.
I even told her the last time we talked, to seek medical help and see if she really has bipolar disorder, both of us suspected this possibility in her !! My intentions have always been to help her as much as I could, and I know I was a good person for her, who fought hard to keep her relationship firm !!
And all I ever wanted was to understand her and improve the traumatic life she had !! I will not go into details, because that would be invasive and exposed on my part in delineating the situations that with great difficulty she opened with me !!
I know I have my problems too, with my tough Pluto squares in my personal planets in asc!! I always hoped that this relationship would not be doomed to failure ... but it was too much for me to handle all the emotional projections demanded from her towards me, it was very heavy !!
I really loved her, and I know that feeling will not change, because I still struggle to move forward with a light heart !!
It is very interesting of you to say that some people need their own illusions to be able to continue life. I believe you are right about that, this is a very compassionate thought on your part !!
I also know that we cannot diagnose anyone, we are not doctors, so everything would be just guessing to be observed !!
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Unread 10-27-2020, 01:19 AM
AquaVenusian AquaVenusian is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

And perhaps what you mentioned is at the heart of the matter in our visible unavailability on the emotional (lunar) level ... as both are in conflict. What I mean is that my need for authenticity, truth, honesty ... is very different from her need to hide, not to reveal feelings, not to be able to relate to the attentive self !! Perhaps because of this basic issue of her self being built on shame and other situations that you raised above !! I never imagined that the difficulty of it being authentic could for that reason !!
I usually find it easy to put myself in the shoes of others, but it is very challenging for me to imagine her condition !!
So, the only thing I'm going to ask for you, is constructive advice on how to understand it better and keep going with a light heart !!
Because I need to understand in order to forgive completely and not harbor any resentment.

Last edited by AquaVenusian; 10-27-2020 at 10:31 AM.
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Unread 10-27-2020, 01:34 AM
AquaVenusian AquaVenusian is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

Another very peculiar thing that I managed to understand in her, were these projections, there are moments when she is very emotionally immature (she ecapes a lot about dealing with her own emotions) ... I realized that she turned off her emotional side, maybe even in childhood (this I can't say) ... I realized that the patterns we had in our relationship were very similar to the bipolar patterns, in which for half of the year the relationship was relatively smooth and the other half she had impulses to separate from everything and everyone, causing drama and havoc, and not just with me.
What did I understand during all the years together !? I understood her need to recreate scenarios (maybe things she didn’t overcome in the past) ... these abuse scenarios she recreated with me many times ... it was as if she wanted to see how I would react emotionally in a similar situation. It was like she wanted to see how I would react emotionally in a similar situation, she seemed test my emotional depth and ability to handle everything that other women probably made her go through during her life journey like (cheating, discard, abuse etc)
What my intuition screams out loud, is that she needs to take responsibility for her emotional and stop recreating those scenarios that make others go through intense emotional pain !!
I tried very hard to have compassion and patience and believe that she would transform over time, but today I know that doing this and keeping together in the relationship is impossible, but I believe that she can and will make the internal changes on her own way.

Last edited by AquaVenusian; 10-27-2020 at 01:39 AM.
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Unread 10-27-2020, 06:50 PM
Lin Lin is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

Well, I will try to help you with this.

First I want to say that it's not unusual for opposites (of any kind) to attract.

Also: being someone who wants to help and enlighten others - or help in any major way - is what is termed a ''social worker syndrome.'' I aught to know....I have this impulse myself. Sometimes it is VERY appreciated. Sometimes it turns the other person OFF.

The BEST way to use this is impersonally. When someone you don't know or don't know well needs help, you are helping in a philanthropic way. But if it's someone you know well and especially if you really care about someone, the dynamic is totally different. It is usually NOT appreciated and sometimes really felt to be a show of ''superiority'' - telling another person why they ''lack'' this or that - or are possibly a victim of a condition such as bi-polar disorder....or Asperger's syndrome, etc.

From your point of view you are helping. But the other person, being ''other'', has a totally different point of view!

I've been thru all these stages myself. Many years ago, long after I began studying astrology and wanted to go ''deeper'' I began studying the connection between astrology and psychology. I started to read most of the new ''self help'' or ''recovery'' literature I could find. There was a book entitled "Healing the Child Within" and in the beginning there was a list of that which all children need to grow emotionally healthy. And I also began to study books whose subject was the actual connection between astrology and psychology.

Near the top of the list in the book, "Healing" .... was this "Needs to know that they are loved unconditionally."

In other words, real LOVE is unconditional. It's not "I will love you once to are healed or well or changed". I realized the reason for my interest in this particular book was that as a child I was FAR from being loved unconditionally. As many or most children are (NOT loved unconditionally.) I had NO idea what that was or that I was ''entitled'' to it.

When you attempt to ''fix'' someone else's life what THEY hear is ---you are ''damaged'' and you need to be fixed. I will help fix you. So you cease being friend and become a therapist, which is not what they were looking for. They were looking for affection and approval just the way they ARE.

I will look at your synastry....and get back to you,
LIN
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Last edited by Lin; 10-27-2020 at 07:14 PM.
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  #7  
Unread 10-27-2020, 09:53 PM
AquaVenusian AquaVenusian is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

Thank you so much for helping me to better understand this situation !! I really appreciate that, and if I can do something in return, let me know, okay !?
So ... about, what you said above.
I see the dichotomy of this in myself...
maybe one of the intrinsic problems in this relationship too !!
I will explain why, I really understand unconditional love, and I had to learn to maintain a behavior of doing for others without waiting in return, however, I need to have the power to decide on this, for example if I am going to donate I have to guarantee that what I am going to donate will not be lacking myself !! For example, I will donate such a thing, and I consciously know that it will not be lacking for me, so I can donate without waiting in return !!
I understand in some extent, that I need to accept her as she is, or any other people are in general !!
My difficulty is when I can see the authentic "SELF" in others, and the person hides it pretending to be who they aren't (for different reasons), I receive it as if the person had been lying to me !!
So when you told me yesterday, about some people needing to live their illusion, it opened up my understanding about my difficulty to accept this ... because it opened my mind to understand that for them maybe this "lie / illusion" is what makes them live their own life better, it would be like a coping mechanism and self protection ... and I really need to understand this because I lived the same situation in part of my life too, in which I was not aware of many things within myself !!
Another example was this relationship, I only stayed for many years, because I believed that her authentic self would come in out, it was as if I fell in love with her authentic self and not with the illusions that she projects ... the biggest problem of that , is that the illusions she projects hurt me too much, far beyond the limit !!
But I would like to learn to love unconditionally, and I believe that in order to achieve this I would have to get more superficially involved in order not to take things personally from others !!
I also understand what you explained, that for me I may be helping, but in the other's optics, it can even be taken as an offense ... this leads to what many people have already guided me, to help those who really want my help !!
P.S: I wrote down here, the books you mentioned and I'm going to look for them to read too, I hope to like the content as much as I liked the theme.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.
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Unread 10-27-2020, 11:12 PM
Lin Lin is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

'' I receive it as if the person had been lying to me !!''

Well, in a way it is deception....but there's self deception here too....she is self deceptive and that is how she lives.

Question: how long were you and she in a relationship? Did you two ever live together?
I'm also wondering what you do for a living.

Your chart says you are VERY intelligent. I mean VERY.

When someone has a high degree of intelligence and is also vulnerable emotionally there is usually problems with choosing people to love.

You want to feel the freedom of loving but your intellect may get in the way. Intellectualizing love relationships always gets us into trouble.

Do you know why love and romance is a 5th house matter? Because the 5th house represents speculation and gambling. Love is a very big gamble. It doesn't always make sense because sense is no part of falling in love.

You know you have the ruler of the 5th, 7th and your IC (4th house cusp) ....in your 12th house. I think to understand this relationship you are going to really have to study the (your) 12th house.

The 9th house is also ruled by Venus...in your 12th. You are ''drawn'' to this dynamic.
You are drawn to the mystery but then you want to have it make ''sense''.

By the way, her MOON squares all your planets in your 12th house. So in a way she ''defies'' logic, reason and order the way the rest of your planets demand you to understand!

And YOUR moon squares HER Uranus, Saturn, Neptune and Mars...in your 11th house of goals and future plans. So had you gone to a legitimate astrologer before you got serious about her you would have been warned that your feelings were going to be in pieces - eventually.

that does not mean that there is no attraction on both sides. But ''attraction'' is very different from ''compatibility.'' VERY different.

Her Venus and Jupiter in early Taurus trine your Neptune....so you were in a way, seduced by the energy you did see and that energy blinded you from the very difficult and incompatible energies you didn't delve into until ''later.''

She also saw something in you that was conflicted. All your planets in Aquarius fall in her 7th house of partnership. But your Merc, Sun, Venus and your Ascendant all SQUARE her Moon and Pluto. Frankly I am at a loss to understand how this relationship lasted for more than a few months!! Both of you must have been motivated...maybe by transits.

If you can post the date you and she met maybe I can answer that question....maybe.

But sometimes people tend to be attracted to the most difficult situations in romance and not the ''easiest'' - and this habit often begins in childhood when we are only accepted, approved of or loved when we have performed ALL the work we were required to. And we come away from childhood with the negative law, "Real love requires exhausting work." - otherwise it's not ''valuable".

Does this resonate with you?

LIN
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  #9  
Unread 10-28-2020, 02:14 AM
AquaVenusian AquaVenusian is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

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'' I receive it as if the person had been lying to me !!''

Well, in a way it is deception....but there's self deception here too....she is self deceptive and that is how she lives.

Question: how long were you and she in a relationship? Did you two ever live together?
I'm also wondering what you do for a living.
The date we met: 20 of august 2016 in the city of Goiania, state of Goias, country of Brazil at around 15:00 p.m

with our comings and goings, I tried to sustain this relationship for 3 years and 8 months (the relationship was at a distance, maybe that's why it lasted longer, we saw each other 2 to 3 times a year, in the part of the year that I mentioned that the relationship was smoother, because the other part of the year we only had disagreements and abuse also hot / cold dynamics).

We didn't live together, in fact, that was the reason for our last break up !!
She wanted me to pay for an apartment in the city she lives in, which is 340km away from where I live !! At first I sympathized with the idea although this would be a big step (we went to look at some apartments for rent), but we were at the beginning of the pandemic, as I said, I am autonomous, I could not make a commitment of this magnitude and continue working here where I live (it would be an expense very high for me, mainly because she said she couldn’t help me with the apartment expenses for 4 months ahead of that moment, she wanted me to pay everything by myself), and I also couldn't move to her city without a job and a solid financial plan !! Especially with the pandemic, I would be very irresponsible in taking a risky attitude like this !! So I denied living with her at that time but I said we could plan this in the long run ... but she was 8 to 80 in her mood and broke up with me ... she broke up with me every time I simply said no to her irrational demands (because most of the time I did everything she asked).
Afterwards I realized that her reasons for wanting to live with me were more selfish than really wanting to live with me, she actually wanted to solve the problem of bad relationship with her mother, so as she wanted to leave her mother's house and had no means to doing this alone, she asked me to live together. She didn't care if the apartment had a garage for my car (those kinds of details that I only realized later).

About what I do for a living ... well, I'm autonomous, I'm a real estate broker and a financial broker.


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Your chart says you are VERY intelligent. I mean VERY.
Thank you!! This is a compliment I hear a lot !! For me it's very natural, Usually I underestimate my intelligence !! I dont like to be a "showy" person.
by the way my intelligence motivated her to go back to school and finish high school that she had never finished before (she said that she didn’t want to be on the side of someone smart and others compare about her not finishing high school), and after that she went over and did a technical nursing course and I gave all my support (emotional, mental, spiritual and financial that you can imagine) when I said that I helped her progress her life in all ways I really mean it. Her life took a considerable leap in the time we were together, and that is something I am proud of (in parts).

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Originally Posted by Lin View Post
When someone has a high degree of intelligence and is also vulnerable emotionally there is usually problems with choosing people to love.

You want to feel the freedom of loving but your intellect may get in the way. Intellectualizing love relationships always gets us into trouble.

Do you know why love and romance is a 5th house matter? Because the 5th house represents speculation and gambling. Love is a very big gamble. It doesn't always make sense because sense is no part of falling in love.
my friends say I have a "rotten finger" to choose girlfriends hahaha
But the truth is that I didn't have many realistic experiences, the experience with her for example was my first relationship in which the distance is less than the other experiences I had ... I didn't have a lot of learning in how to relate .. my parents were very absent ... everything I learned in life was from experiences and by myself, I never had anyone to guide me, mainly to say if a relationship is being healthy or not !! My mother for example is married to a bipolar.
I was very naive all my life, I always saw the best in people, my optics of the other was based on my inner wolrd, and that led me to many setbacks and many people who took advantage of me, this relationship was also an example of this.
Currently, I am going through a major change that is being prepared since my saturn return ... and as you know my pluto is already in the 12th house, saturn is there too and I believe it will make many things more realistic ... I know that I need to make many changes in my life to gain more autonomy, freedom, it is my biggest goal.


Quote:
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You know you have the ruler of the 5th, 7th and your IC (4th house cusp) ....in your 12th house. I think to understand this relationship you are going to really have to study the (your) 12th house.
this is a delicate subject for me, because I have the 12th house as the spiritual part, and everything that happens in my life I try to understand the reasons behind it, I have a very deep understanding with this house in a way that I don't I can't verbalize.
Because that was one of the big reasons that also made me stay in this relationship !!
I will share only one situation that happened ...
She always demanded a lot of money and material things from me. (our social difference is considerable, I was better able to provide and help her).
But sometimes I had some financial difficulties, my profession requires high control, because one day is good, the other is not.
So, I had some situation where she needed me to help her, and I had the means to help her but I had no prospect of new money coming in the short term, so I went into deep insight about questioning spirituality whether or not I should help her with my financial reserves. So I felt that I should help her at that moment and not worry because I would be rewarded, and when I did that, very soon I had money that covered my expenses. (well this was just a unique example).
Another thing I have learned is to let go .... for example what did she do to me was bad !? yes it was very bad and inhumane, she literally disregarded everything I provided and did for her ... But with strong confidence I know that the universe or spirituality has my back and what I have lost materially / emotionally I am allowed to recover by myself.
And unfortunately for her I know that the path will not be so easy, because I really believe that people reap what they plant, and she will have to face many things in the near future, perhaps her worst fear, to face herself !!
These were my examples of the 12th house that I have assimilated and have aligned with my intuition and my humble knowledge of astrology. It's like I don't have to worry, I did the best I could, with the best intentions, now this is no longer in my hands, so I have to heal my wounds, learn from this experience and let the universe take care of the rest .


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post

The 9th house is also ruled by Venus...in your 12th. You are ''drawn'' to this dynamic.
You are drawn to the mystery but then you want to have it make ''sense''.

By the way, her MOON squares all your planets in your 12th house. So in a way she ''defies'' logic, reason and order the way the rest of your planets demand you to understand!

And YOUR moon squares HER Uranus, Saturn, Neptune and Mars...in your 11th house of goals and future plans. So had you gone to a legitimate astrologer before you got serious about her you would have been warned that your feelings were going to be in pieces - eventually.
Yes, I was warned that this relationship would not work !!
But as you said on my part and hers as well ... it was a challenge that we wanted to make work against all the odds !! I saw many things that I didn't like about her behavior ... but I had a very deep feeling that I couldn't explain in which it felt right to continue and overcome all obstacles !!
And yes, as you said, she completely defies the logic for me, with all my intelligence her behavior was able to distort all my logic to understand her and not succeed in it !! As you know my understanding of her behavior with me, the only way out that I found could be explained only as a person with mental / emotional problems, because these people have no logic in "normal" behavior .... because it didn't make sense to me at all what happened btw us.
I see it as a plutonic relationship ... as you can see pluto is the great weight of this relationship and we upload it to the composite chart which he also positions in the descendant


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post

that does not mean that there is no attraction on both sides. But ''attraction'' is very different from ''compatibility.'' VERY different.

Her Venus and Jupiter in early Taurus trine your Neptune....so you were in a way, seduced by the energy you did see and that energy blinded you from the very difficult and incompatible energies you didn't delve into until ''later.''

She also saw something in you that was conflicted. All your planets in Aquarius fall in her 7th house of partnership. But your Merc, Sun, Venus and your Ascendant all SQUARE her Moon and Pluto. Frankly I am at a loss to understand how this relationship lasted for more than a few months!! Both of you must have been motivated...maybe by transits.

If you can post the date you and she met maybe I can answer that question....maybe.

But sometimes people tend to be attracted to the most difficult situations in romance and not the ''easiest'' - and this habit often begins in childhood when we are only accepted, approved of or loved when we have performed ALL the work we were required to. And we come away from childhood with the negative law, "Real love requires exhausting work." - otherwise it's not ''valuable".

Does this resonate with you?

LIN
Yes, I totally resonate !!
So my biggest frustration in this relationship and my biggest difficulty in leaving it in the hands of the universe is how much I struggled to make it work !! How much I sacrificed myself for the relationship to go nowhere !!
Sometimes I think it ended for good. Other times I cry for so much energy that I put the relationship to work for both of us, and in the end it break up in the worst way for me. I keep wondering what I did wrong, what I need to filter out of it all and prevent it from happening again. And I already think strongly about how to deal with her asking me to come back again and how I can muster my strength to not allow myself to enter this cycle again.

Last edited by AquaVenusian; 10-28-2020 at 02:49 AM.
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Unread 10-29-2020, 04:25 PM
Lin Lin is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

'' I keep wondering what I did wrong, what I need to filter out of it all and prevent it from happening again. And I already think strongly about how to deal with her asking me to come back again and how I can muster my strength to not allow myself to enter this cycle again.''

First, I want to discuss the 12th house. Not your 12th necessarily, but THE 12th house. It requires deep study. It is the house of sacrifice; the house of secrets; the house of victimization of all or no specific types; and the house of ''self undoing.'' Yes, it is also the house of the ''spirit''.

BUT one must understand that the ''spiritual'' and the ''material'' are absolutely not connected. They are opposites. When you apply ''spiritual'' to material or worldly issues, you get in trouble. The spirit is NOT of this world. It belongs to the ''greater Spirit.''

OK...had I known that this was a long distance relationship from the first, I would have understood how it could eat up so much of your time. Because I am really NOT a ''fan'' of this type of relationship. It keeps people from deeply knowing the other person for an unspecified length of time. If there are ''secrets'' - they are much more easily kept by the fact of being so far from the other person. People who only see each other a few times a year can always be on their ''best behavior'' - I call this the ''Honeymoon relationship.'

But REAL committed relationship can NEVER grow out of this.

As for her incredibly unreasonable request, I fear that yes....it's probable that she was using you. You asked about her possibly being bipolar....or whatever....I am afraid that it's more likely a simpler situation. It sounds to me as tho she has strong narcissistic tendencies. If she has the opportunity to get more of what she wants or needs, this opportunistic energy works overtime to get it.

But always wanting more and demanding more while threatening to take away whatever love or affection she gives is emotional blackmail. Pure and simple.

Your own nature does not incline you to be really suspicious of people's motives, especially if you are emotionally ''caught.''

You didn't nothing wrong. At least nothing to her. To yourself you did a deep disservice.

Investing so much into something that could not work is unexplainable. It's something we do when we love something or someone too much, without knowing or having the logical expectation of getting some of it back.

When we give to charity we don't expect anything back. And we can sacrifice a lot in the name of charity. BUT in personal love relationships, which we hope to grow into real marriage of the essential persons we are, we should expect that the other person cares for us and respects us as much - and is HONEST with us....so that we can make the decision about whether or not to keep investing.

YOU who are in the financial world would NEVER throw good money after bad on a financial investment....would you. But you threw something much more precious after this dysfunctional love for way too long ...because as I said above, love is not reasonable.

But that does not mean you are meant to suffer. It doesn't mean you should sacrifice YOUR heart for someone else who doesn't appreciate or deserve it.

If you can possibly get your hands on the book, "Are You the One for ME?" by Barbara DeAngelis - please read it. It's simple, specific, logical, down to earth and contained all the information I had been giving clients for many many years piecemeal....and it's all in one paperback book!

The way you protect yourself in the future is to NOT have LDRs.....meet people with whom you can have a real, in person relationship and from the beginning, LISTEN to what the person says. Let the person know who you are. Keep to your own rules.
Protect your heart.

And keep charity and social work for those you don't know. After this pandemic is over, perhaps you could donate a few hours a week to a local charity or need. This is one of the most functional ways to use the 12th house.

LIN
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  #11  
Unread 10-29-2020, 10:17 PM
Lin Lin is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

I want to add something to my recommendation of the book....by Barbara DeAngelis.

I know the title sounds simplistic and trite.....but frankly, it is extremely valuable.
The first time I read it thru I said to myself....EVERY high school student should be required to read this. We learn a lot in high school but we are woefully unprepared for the ''social'' world and especially ''romance.'' And sex ed does little to address the real issues we face thru life.

LIN
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  #12  
Unread 10-30-2020, 05:01 PM
AquaVenusian AquaVenusian is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

Thank you my friend, I know that my request for analysis on her, was irrational and I understand that these are just assumptions, and that the situation requires a professional in the medical field to evaluate accurately. Narcissism I was already sure of this possibility, I love this two YouTube channel of Dr. Ramani and Richard Grannon, both of them have a lot of baggage and mastery on this narcisistic subject. She has many traits of a "Covert Narcissist " ... I know that disorders are more complex, but narcissism is a type of basis for most disorders. Anyway, I am happy for the content we share here and I have no words to thank you.

Wow, you accidentally solved my difficulty on a material level, because my unique planet in earth sign is neptune, as you already know it is considered a spiritual planet and is in conflict with my moon, that simple answer you gave me solved a lifetime issue for me. And this difficulty is about relationship, because what I “idealize” and do everything to achieve this ideal, has nothing to do with relationship in real life .... So, maybe what I need to learn, are practical concepts of how to materialize an intimate relationship in a balanced and REAL way ?! if I am not able to do that, the only relationship that I will need to maintain will be with myself, learn absolutely everything about me, develop all my skills, have dominion over it, establish healthy boundaries and love myself more and more to not leave situations and toxic relationships come into my life ... of course keep my best friends by my side.
Because, look, I can't complain about the material aspect in terms of financial and material acquisitions, that was never a very mitigating problem for me. But in my life so far, most of the people I attract were people who were more interested in what I can provide materially / financially, or in the fun, adventures (travels) that I provided for many people (I always paid trips for friends to accompany me in tourist places) including for her, she had never known the beach and I took her to visit Rio de Janeiro in a luxurious beachfront hotel (in our third date ... please dont judge me hahah), but these people never appreciated the love and friendship I had to donate . My love wasn't really appreciated, it always made me disappointed.
So, when I ask what I did wrong, the only answer I find is that the problem is MYSELF, that I need to change and leave this behavior behind in relationships, and what my best friends always tell me is that I am very generous with others without knowing the person very well. I know that in this relationship, for example, I practically taught the person to take advantage of me, from the beginning, until entering the pattern that you mentioned in which she always asked for more and withdrew emotionally to get it, this was a very evident and very accurate pattern that you described. Now she is in the silent treatment modality, but she is obsessed looking at my social networks, when it isn't her, are one of her friends, it's complicated, because I deleted all our mutual friends from my social networks and I deleted her too, but many different fake profile appears asking me for a friend request, that's why my biggest concern at the moment is to get stronger and stronger to resist all these demands and not care about these persecutions.

In contrast to this scenario above, I have 3 great friends, one of them is a symbol of pure love for me, he is like a brother I never had, our friendship extends for 31 years, he was my neighbor and the first word that he said was: "little girl" he used to call me, I was 3 years old when he was born, and currently he lives traveling, he went to university in Missouri, USA, and even with our distance never diminishes the love we feel for each other, he is a soul brother . The other two are friendships that exceed 18 years in duration. A common curiosity between them is that on everyone's chart there is a strong mix of gemini and aquarius signs.
What became very clear as the essence of the experiences that weren't good for me, is that I need to establish a sense of love and self-worth, and not seek that self-worth validition in others.
I want to quote the phrase from a movie that I watched recently after a lot of resistance on my part because I was never a fan of "Wonder Woman" but in the end she said: "it's not about what the other deserves, it's about what you believe, and I believe in LOVE ” This quote touched my heart deeply. Because all I believe in in life is LOVE. But if you look at my chart you will see that my path in this direction wasn't at all funny.
The heart of this relationship was that I believed that my love could somehow heal her pain ... in our last fight when she simply ended the relationship without even listening to me (that was something I always insisted on as one of the our problems), it was the limit point that I realized that the only person capable of healing her, would be herself (I told her this). One thing that makes me relieved was that I did absolutely EVERYTHING for this relationship to work, now I am aware that there was nothing else I could do, now it is just a job of acceptance, self healing and moving on, as I said before , letting the universe bring situations that give awareness and teach her what I wasn't capable of.
Everything you said makes perfect sense, and the sad thing about it is that rationally I already knew all of this, my mind and heart aren't in conflict, they work very well, but I have a behavior of giving "line" to the person, so I can see how far she goes with that behavior, and it hurts me because when I tend to take a decisive action, the person has already crossed all my limits and the worst, I allowed that to happen.
And yes when it comes to money I am great at being punctual about what is balanced / fair and what isn't, and during this relationship she used many ways to manipulate me and one of them was when I charged things from her, she gave me a kind of sermon that I shouldn't charge for what I donate. I agree with that, but another intrinsic problem with this relationship was that on many occasions I cut my “donations” so she started asking for things in a veiled way, and manipulating me to get what she wanted. Wow, just remembering about it makes me disgusted. As if I had entered a hole and invested in that bottomless hole where my return was only pain and more pain, I will not say that she didn't invest anything in the relationship, yes she did, but too little and too late, almost crumbs compared to what I did.
Thanks for the tip on social work, I like that, I intend to return to an attitude that I had in the past, here in Brazil many people have difficulty buying basic food necessary to survive, and about 10 years ago I made food baskets in a supermarket and asked them to donate for families in need, without my knowing who the basket was being used for. And that made me deeply happy.
About the book, thank you very much, I will search the internet and I will read !! If you have films that can be enlightening and enriching in these subjects that we talked about, I will be very grateful, I really like to absorb films too !!

I don't know how to repay your time and dedication that you donated to me here, if you have something that I can help with, let me know, ok !? I am deeply grateful, from the heart I wish you the best and I will send positive energies on your way !

P.S: sorry for my english, it's not very good today, I had very tumultuous days at my job.

Last edited by AquaVenusian; 10-30-2020 at 08:37 PM.
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  #13  
Unread 10-30-2020, 09:54 PM
Lin Lin is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

you said, ''. please dont judge me hahah), but these people never appreciated the love and friendship I had to donate -''

You say later that you in way, TAUGHT these people how to take advantage of you.

Yes. And you know it. And of course, because you are very intelligent you also innately know everything I told you. But sometimes we don't trust our own instinct....and we go with our impulses.

But you know it goes deeper than your actions. These actions come from someplace. One of the places is your poor ''self image.'' The self image is ruled by the moon. The mother is the first one who teaches you how loved and how much you are accepted and approved of. And if that doesn't happen - well, something like that didn't go right with you.

And you feel you have to give a person you care about a ''bonus'' gift - that being with you under regular circumstances, and having them get to know you and visa versa, isn't enough to keep their attention.

The thing is, IF it's not enough to keep their attention, then you don't want them in you life. That is NOT love.

It's fine to give nice gifts at a birthday or Christmas or to share expenses for a vacation, but if you are consistantly attracted to people who have ''less'' than you do financially, then you are asking for trouble. You need to figure out why you do this.

I think we are back to the ''social worker'' syndrome. You want to take someone who has had no advantages and give that to them....and then you want love in return.

But that is backwards. You must first find out if someone loves you. Because if it's a ''one way street'' - and you really need to listen to this part - the person will ultimately RESENT you for being ''lady bountiful'' - and beyond that, you are saying that the way YOU love or you SHOW your love is by material methods. And then, YOU have the upper hand....and you can take away what you once GAVE! And the other person will resent this possibility even if you don't ever DO something like that.

You cannot indoctrinate someone into a ''system'' you create and then expect them to stop using that system.... can you ''get'' that?

If you get that book and read it you will see from the beginning that the most vulnerable time in a relationship and the most important time IS the very beginning of it. And everything you do in the beginning will be a template for the future of that relationship!

************************************************** *************

This is not astrological....but it IS mythology. IF you can get a copy of the series, "The Power of Myth" .....I think you will learn a lot about yourself - it was originally created in 1986 I believe and was shown on American Public Television. It became the most requested series ever ---and there is a reason. It is unique.

Look it up....and follow the prompts. It was a six hour illustrated (amazingly) conversation between Joseph Campbell, who studied and taught mythology and comparative religion for decades.....and Bill Moyers, one of the most respected and open minded journalists America ever produced. He is an interesting person too...but Joseph Campbell wrote many many books about Mythology and this program is only a tiny but very deep look into this subject....which could have easily have gone on for many many more hours.

there are many films which I believe a ''mythologically correct" but this is the one masterpiece I would like to pass on to you.

As for your ''friend requests:" DON'T ACCEPT ANY new friends for a few months - if you don't actually know who they are. Leave NO door open. If you do less than to go ALL THE WAY with this you leave yourself open to backsliding and self contempt when it all goes sideways....

If you want to "thank" me, please go to the World Wildlife Fund site or Environmental Defense Fund or Ocean Conservancy and write some checks. We must do all we can to save our planet.

Peace,
LIN
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Last edited by Lin; 10-30-2020 at 09:58 PM.
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  #14  
Unread 10-31-2020, 05:52 PM
AquaVenusian AquaVenusian is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post
you said, ''. please dont judge me hahah), but these people never appreciated the love and friendship I had to donate -''

You say later that you in way, TAUGHT these people how to take advantage of you.

Yes. And you know it. And of course, because you are very intelligent you also innately know everything I told you. But sometimes we don't trust our own instinct....and we go with our impulses.

But you know it goes deeper than your actions. These actions come from someplace. One of the places is your poor ''self image.'' The self image is ruled by the moon. The mother is the first one who teaches you how loved and how much you are accepted and approved of. And if that doesn't happen - well, something like that didn't go right with you.

And you feel you have to give a person you care about a ''bonus'' gift - that being with you under regular circumstances, and having them get to know you and visa versa, isn't enough to keep their attention.

The thing is, IF it's not enough to keep their attention, then you don't want them in you life. That is NOT love.

It's fine to give nice gifts at a birthday or Christmas or to share expenses for a vacation, but if you are consistantly attracted to people who have ''less'' than you do financially, then you are asking for trouble. You need to figure out why you do this.

I think we are back to the ''social worker'' syndrome. You want to take someone who has had no advantages and give that to them....and then you want love in return.
Yes, I recognize my poor "Self image" ... some time ago I was in therapy for almost a year with a psychologist who helped me a lot, when the cycle of my saturn return started in 2015/2016 ... (I talk a lot about this period, because it was from this cycle that I really started to take responsibility for all aspects of my own SELF ... Saturn brought up a series of questions that I needed to be aware of ... since then it hasn't stopped yet and I know that this will only "soften" a little, and maybe give me a break, after he crosses jupiter in my 1st house).
Here is a pattern in myself that I identified, my mother is a great mother, who always gave me what I need, I cannot complain in front of the scenario that she had to face, my mother was a single mother, she is now a retired teacher (she is a super cancerian 2nd house) ... I grew up in the care of my grandmother (strong scorpio) ... what can I say, I never felt enough for my mother, I observed how much her students loved her ... but for me she was always emotionally distant, and it was as if I didn’t recognize how that teacher was loved by her students ... since I was a child I was "independent" ... at the age of 5 years, I would stand up alone , took a shower, dressed in my clothes, my mother was still sleeping ... I gave her a kiss and I went to school alone almost every day, I remember little thngs of my mother present and help me with important things, what I remember was just that she bogged down as long as she could at work, it looked like she wanted to get away from the drama that was in my grandmother's house .... when I was a baby I suckled milk, only at 6:00 am and I anxiously waited for my mother to arrive at 18:00 pm to breastfeed because those were the breaks she had to nourish me, she worked from 6:00 am until 23:00 pm every day.
In my view, my mother only had time for her work and in her spare time she wanted to find a partner to share her life with.
In the therapies I did, I identified a pattern of doing a lot for the other, and never receiving what is fair in return. This occurred in my close relationships, in my work, and with the family.
I was a nerd at school, and I was also the best sportswoman, winner of several trophies and medals for school ... I was a winner in science competitions ... I played instruments for the school's musical band (well I wasn't the girl who is superficially beautiful at school of course, I didn't waste my time with dating a teenager, just now with time my appearance gave a considerable UP) and it took me a long time to realize I was attracted to women, and assuming that was incredible because it made me stay more feminine and taking care of my appearance, it was like: accepting it made me connect more with my feminine side ... and I just assumed it on my saturn return. When I went to Ireland to study, when I came back I had this urge to take a side that I felt comfortable expressing myself and remain comfortable with my femininity.
I was a girl who didn't give any kind of problem to my mother, on the contrary, my mother always received great feedbacks about me from my teachers.
But my mother never praised me for any of this ... she was never concern about me or looked my development ... and she says that give compliments, means spoils the children.
But it is only now that she is retired, that she is trying to be the mother that she has never been, for example, to be more present, but she herself recognizes that it is a little late, because today she wants to treat me like a child. (it bothers me a little, because I am her only child, so this exaggerated attention is at different times, which becomes inappropriate).
But I never got tired, trying to be a better and better person inside of me in every way possible. But this behavior of mine extended to my relationships, desperately looking for love, which I know I need to recognize and be confident from within myself and not from the outside. I have been recognizing for some time that I need changes and I will do it on my time, although my intellectual side dominates all this knowledge, the practical side takes a little longer to take shape in the external world ... my language of love is first by "Words of love", followed by "Acts of service" and "Quality time" (by the way I recently read the book "5 love language by Gary Chapman", it was a very interesting book too.)
And YEESSS I have little confidence in my instincts ... and this is strange because as I told you about the relationship with my ex, I had seen the red flags, but I have something inside that is afraid of making a people bad judgment and not giving time and chance for the person to prove to me who they are ... it's as if that was unfair on my part.
Sooo, like I said, I give people a "line" to show me who they really are. For example in this relationship with her, from the beginning I suggested to her that we could be a kind of "Friends with benefits" ... because for me that would be an intelligent decision, in which neither of us would feel trapped in the relationship, and both would have freedom, and if each one really wanted to be with each other, it would happen over time ... even more because I had already had experience with distance relationships, and I didn't want to go back to that experience again. But when I proposed this to her, she got mad and said she wasn't that modern. So I committed myself to her, but only to be disappointed from the start. Today I know that if I had listened to myself and stood firm in my position, I might not have had to face such a painful experience.
For you to observe I needed to have your opinion to have confidence in what I always suspected about her behavior.
I know that I need to work on this inner confidence and remain firm, without worrying about the needs of others.
I commented little about the syndrome that you have mentioned to me, because I have no knowledge about, I trust what you are said about this book, sooo I will read to understand and compare with my development and learn to do differently to have better results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post

But that is backwards. You must first find out if someone loves you. Because if it's a ''one way street'' - and you really need to listen to this part - the person will ultimately RESENT you for being ''lady bountiful'' - and beyond that, you are saying that the way YOU love or you SHOW your love is by material methods. And then, YOU have the upper hand....and you can take away what you once GAVE! And the other person will resent this possibility even if you don't ever DO something like that.

You cannot indoctrinate someone into a ''system'' you create and then expect them to stop using that system.... can you ''get'' that?

If you get that book and read it you will see from the beginning that the most vulnerable time in a relationship and the most important time IS the very beginning of it. And everything you do in the beginning will be a template for the future of that relationship!
On the issue of attracting people from a different background, I may have inherited this characteristic ... My father married a woman who was a domestic servant and had no education.
I say that, because she was different from my mother, my mother was always independent, my mother graduated from university and always worked outside the home, and my stepmother didn't, she was always a homemaker.
Well my parents, both are: Patriarch (my father) and Matriarch (my mother) .... What I mean is that both have the iron hand and power inside their house. I say that, because I may have inherited their behavior.
I don't know, I am watching this now, maybe it is insecure !? A need to express power ?!
Maybe make the person dependent on me for everything ?! (I see this dynamic work with my parents).
This last question conflicts with what I believe ... because ideally I would like a partner who would grow up with me, each with their occupation at work and both working together towards our future. I don't know if I would like to have someone dependent on me ... but somehow I like to be needed. (unconsciously!?)
I think I will need time to unravel this issue better. If you have any comments that may be useful to me, please feel free to do so, ok !?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post
This is not astrological....but it IS mythology. IF you can get a copy of the series, "The Power of Myth" .....I think you will learn a lot about yourself - it was originally created in 1986 I believe and was shown on American Public Television. It became the most requested series ever ---and there is a reason. It is unique.

Look it up....and follow the prompts. It was a six hour illustrated (amazingly) conversation between Joseph Campbell, who studied and taught mythology and comparative religion for decades.....and Bill Moyers, one of the most respected and open minded journalists America ever produced. He is an interesting person too...but Joseph Campbell wrote many many books about Mythology and this program is only a tiny but very deep look into this subject....which could have easily have gone on for many many more hours.

there are many films which I believe a ''mythologically correct" but this is the one masterpiece I would like to pass on to you.

As for your ''friend requests:" DON'T ACCEPT ANY new friends for a few months - if you don't actually know who they are. Leave NO door open. If you do less than to go ALL THE WAY with this you leave yourself open to backsliding and self contempt when it all goes sideways....

If you want to "thank" me, please go to the World Wildlife Fund site or Environmental Defense Fund or Ocean Conservancy and write some checks. We must do all we can to save our planet.

Peace,
LIN
WOW, what an invaluable indication, I love mythology, I will definitely enjoy this series !!
I will look to watch, hopefully, that I am lucky to find this treasure.
No, I don’t accept any person I don’t know on my social media, I don’t want to and I’m not going to give her this breach, because I’m intuitively learning to see her steps ahead because of all the cycles we go through, for sure she will ask me to come back, I know she wants to know if I am with someone, but she has no guts to approach me directly... because she has a tremendous fear of rejection ... (I find this fear so disconcerting in behavior, because if we think rationally, if you are afraid of rejection you should consciously avoid your toxic behavior that you maintain, right ?! because maintaining that behavior will only make people reject you.)
However, in my professional social media, I have no way of keeping it private, unfortunately, and there I always see her obsession with knowing my things.
I am naturally a discreet person, I do not like to expose my intimate and personal life so I know that she is brooding over how she can outline her plan to approach me.
Great, I will do this, and I am wondering if you have aquarius on your chart, because this concern with the world is super humanitarian !! My eyes shine in knowing that !! Thank you for providing me with this tip of gratification. I really enjoy our conversation here. =]

Last edited by AquaVenusian; 11-01-2020 at 10:40 AM.
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  #15  
Unread 11-01-2020, 06:16 PM
Lin Lin is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

I have a Leo MC and therefore I have an Aquarius 4th house cusp. And Uranus is angular in my chart. I have no planets in Aquarius....all my planets fall between Gemini and Virgo.
It's a classic ''bundle'' chart.

you said, "So I committed myself to her, but only to be disappointed from the start. Today I know that if I had listened to myself and stood firm in my position, I might not have had to face such a painful experience.''

Your mistake is that you committed yourself to a person who was not making the commitment BACK to you! A one sided love doesn't work.

By the way, my belief is that the first and most important thing you ''own'' that shows your love (and what you should expect from others) is TIME. You know how important time is because your mother didn't give you any....no where near what you would have needed to feel safe and secure, and to feel approved of. She really did a number on you whic h today would be considered abuse. Because closeness and nurturing are an absolute necessary to all children. Distance and remoteness are as bad as not feeding a child physically.

But this you know now. And you recognize it's too late for your mother to ''make up'' for the past merely because she may have some time to give you.

So in the future one of the most important priorities you should notice is how much actual time the other person is willing to give you. Anyone who gets close and pulls away repeatedly is YOUR MOTHER> Don't ever think that any relationship which begins this way can ever be anything different.

You mentioned ''professional social media'' - I am not familiar with that....are you saying that there is no way to block a person from your media account because it is tied to your business??

I also want to say that ''shortcutting'' the issue about your being attracted to people whose financial worth and power are much less than yours by saying your father did the same thing......is not delving into this issue deep enough.

If your father's 2nd marriage worked out it was just luck or good synastry....or mutual need.

If your mother gave you little time I would assume she also gave your father little time since she worked such long hours. BTW, since when does a teacher work from 6 a.m. to 11p.m. every day including weekends and holidays....there's something there that sounds very odd to me. I mean, did she ever cook a meal??

I think there is a lot to look at there.

Lastly for now....John Bradshaw the psychologist and writer of books about the dysfunctional family is a very big resource for you to get to when you have time.

After reading about how you were an ''over achiever'' in school it reminded me of him because he wrote; to paraphrase...."I did everything I could to do the right thing that would make my parents and family SEE me and approve of me. I became a HUMAN ''DOING'' instead of a human BEING.

He thought if he could find the magic ''thing'' he could DO then they would love him.

But he came from a dysfunctional family. NOTHING he could do would matter. EAch child was ''labeled'' from the beginning and kept that label the entire time they were home and even as they became full adults.

So....these are things to think about....

LIN
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Last edited by Lin; 11-02-2020 at 01:11 PM.
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  #16  
Unread 11-02-2020, 12:03 PM
AquaVenusian AquaVenusian is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

How cool it is, as I said many of my best friends, have gemini on their chartís, so I felt some comfort in this conversation with you !!
Thank you, again, you are bringing me a lot of enlightenment that I was blind about.
I never thought about this dynamic with my mother ... but yes, it makes perfect sense.
When I was born my mother worked for a private company that sold building materials, and two days after my birth, she was called to take office as a government teacher, in which she had passed a public exam. So, she worked for the private company from 8:00 a.m until 18:00 p.m ... she didn't have lunch at home because we lived far from her work, and at 18:00 p.m she came home just to take bath, this time I had to breastfeed, then she would go to school to teach until 23:00 p.m
For you to have an idea, I can identify many psychological behaviors in others, and my mother has always been a mystery to me .... I know that she is emotionally unavailable ... as I said she is cancerian (with sun, mercury and venus in the 2nd house) asc gemini and moon in aries 11th house that conflicts with these planets in cancer !! My mother always managed to avoid that something was missing for me, in terms of food, clothes, toys, everything a child could have, I had, but she wasn't present with me ... she cooked on some weekends ... as I said when she had free time, she used to go out with friends or to date, By the way, my mom has the same pluto as my ex, on the IC (but in the sign of virgo) she still has uranus and mars there too !! I never felt like a daughter to her, and many times she kind of competes with me (her mars falls in my 7th house) ... it's strange, our relationship is very toxic and touches on very vulnerable points that stimulate some unconscious disappointments in me. And yes, this issue of time has become very relevant in my life, for everything, my mother and I also have pluto on our composite chart in the 7th house, which symbolizes the transformation of the relationship, right?! ... and that is very clear that time has done it changes a lot compared to me. My relationship with my mother is so strange that I will give a small example, when I was in Ireland studying, she couldn't assume and be direct in just saying: "I miss you" ... she spoke as if it was my grandmother ... or she took advantage of my grandmother saying she was missing me and telling me that my grandmother was missing me for me ... you know !? Like using a third person to express something to me. She was never direct with me about anything. I remember the neighbor bathing and combing my hair (neighbor that I consider my second mother, she is the mother of my best friend), but I don't remember my mother doing these little things with me. And when I confront her about it, she defends herself by saying that she didn't have it with her parents either (the competition I mentioned above).
My father and my mother never married, my father rejected my mother when she was pregnant and rejected me too. My father has serious narcissistic traits too .... every time I went to his house, he made me cry and feel guilty for things that came from his lack of responsibility (it's like he looks at me and performs the big blame for the lack of responsibility that he had with me and reacted disproportionately bad) I was very hurt by him, only from 2016 until the moment I gaining some strenght and don't allow him to do this to me anymore, we had very heated fights since then, when I I don't accept him pointing his finger at me as if he were an example of a human being or a father.
There is something on my chart, which Iím not sure if itís my libra moon, or the planets in aquarius in the 12th house that makes my characteristics reflect to others, and I often feel that some people react badly with this reflection, as if it were truths about themselves coming up, then they point the finger at me, and react as if their failures were mine (Iíve been through this my whole life) and it forced me to dive inside myself to know exactly everything about me and wanting to have a grip on it so as not to let others point out things to me that don't belong to my behavior. I'm saying this because it always happened in different situations and I always brooded about it internally and I felt bad, I tortured myself trying to correct something in me, which wasn't really me (I wasn't the problem). I operated most of my life unconscious on everything, often feeling like a punching bag without understanding the reason, and now everything is becoming conscious, but gradually. I am proud of the person I intend to become. That is why I have built up an unbreakable inner strength, in which everything that other people try to point the finger at me, and I identify that it is actually a reflection of themselves, will immediately return to them.
This is a chronic and cultural problem here in Brazil ... compared to your country ... let me explain, these days I was talking to my best friend, the same one I said I studied at the University of Missouri ... and I commented with him how much I admire the North American culture, I see your expression in many documentaries, series, films ... in which people in general have a knowledge even if it is minimal about themselves, people consciously know what behavior they have and admit it to themselves ... and I asked my friend if that was really a fact in the USA ... and he said yes, and commented that he had a difficulty time in the beginning of the university course because the first dynamic he needed to do was to introduce himself and talk about himself to the class expressing self-knowledge .... and he said that this was a culture shock for him, but that it was very normal for his colleagues. That's why I always liked to study astrology with North Americans, since 2010. Here in Brazil, people don't have self-knowledge skill's about themselves, and don't react well when you perceive some behavior in them, they feel offended, enter into denial and don't seek to know more about themselves. What I mean is that people here have no responsibility to themselves and don't even try to understand and improve themselves.
Another example was my one-sided relationship (yes you are right, I told her when we were done with each other, that I didn't want to and would not bear the responsibility for the relationship alone), but I was unable to identify her intention at the beginning, if I knew that the commitment would happen only on my part, I probably wouldn't have assumed it, but I fall for it, thinking that she really wanted something serious, well, seriously that it favored only her, right!? And you can see that I'm still brooding and wondering where I went wrong, and what I need to correct.
As for the question of time, I always connect this to the karma experience (I believe in it A LOT), I believe the time that brings truths and puts things in their right place ... because almost all relationships that I have had come back a lot time later to give me my due, I will not deny that it gives a jump in my self-esteem, but it is an odd situation, because when that happens I am no longer on the same page as the person, many times I already overcame all the suffering that I went through, and nothing that person does would make any difference to make me come back ... just like the situation with my mother, it's as if it didn't make sense to me anymore. Today my mother is a totally different person, she became a housewife, she cares about my food, only she cooks, only she organizes things inside the house, as I mentioned she became a real matriach. I can understand and accept the kind of love she can bestow, which is about nurturing, feeding, taking care of my clothes (yes I still live with her) as I said only after she retired she transformed into this mother symbol. it is as if she wants to make up for lost time between us ... I am aiming to build my own house this next year !! Thanks god!!
I really liked that you mitigated how time has become very valuable to me, I never realized it, but it really is a characteristic of me (I learned how to have patience and it was very tested me to wait for time on everything), currently I give a lot value and quality in the time I have with the people I love, I make my time with them worthwhile.

Note: OMG, the relationship with her repeats the relationship dynamics with my mother (I had never realized about it before) ... how can I consciously change the result to more consistent relationships over time ?! Because I understand that we attract other people from our inner world, right?!, so I'm repeating the cycle "asking" people to relive the dynamics of badly resolved relationship with my mother !! Maybe is time to go back to my therapy with my psychologist !!

It is an Instagram that I use only for my profession, as it is a professional page I cannot even stop people from following me, and my content needs to be open to the general public. But I make a distinction, I donít post anything personal, just the buildings I sell, projects being launched and my professional performance. This is really frustrating, when I opened that page, an old stalker started following me right away, it even gave me chills, and I couldn't even delete it or block it, as I did on my other pages.
About John Bradshaw, I don't know him, but he couldn't be more correct about that !! I will certainly try to read his books too !!
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  #17  
Unread 11-02-2020, 01:42 PM
Lin Lin is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

Thank you for sharing all that ''inner information''. First, not ALL North Americans are conscious....lol....I mean look how many voted for our crazy and stupid President.
Please say a prayer that we have a change of President tomorrow.

Read the book, Are You the One for ME?......I promise you will have an epiphany.

Now that you told me about your mother in depth I am curious to see her chart if you have her birth information. Even if you only have her date of birth and place of birth.

Do you have 12 step group programs there? These are recovery programs for people who come from dysfunctional families. (Among other things....and were begun by an American man named Bill Wilson - he started AA) But 12 step programs are not limited to people with alcohol problems, but help their families....and your mother's addiction was work. Even now she is an addict to ''homemaking.'' If you check on line you may find an Al-Anon program in a place near you. They are all over the world. And even if there are not legitimate Al-Anon programs you may be able to find a program called ACOA - which is "Adult Children of Alcoholics" - (also known as Adult Children from Dysfunctional Families).

But the John Bradshaw book, "Healing the Shame that Binds You" is brilliant.

Also there is a invaluable book entitled "Healing the Child Within" by Dr. Charles Whitfield. I ate this book UP when I first began reading it and have quoted it and used it a LOT in my work.

Having your own home will be a miracle for you!! I don't know how you have functioned as an adult by still living with your mother. It means you have still not developed your own AUTHENTICITY. That will be really something to experience.
When you do get your own home, don't let your mother or anyone else give you advice you don't ask for about how to do this or that. Ask YOURSELF.

Back to your mother: I am sure that she, also, was emotionally abandoned in some way. Because this is what happens in families. That is why it's known as the dysfunctional family syndrome! It's passed down. Usually through the mother.

I am surprised you STILL talk with this man who is your biological father. I know I wouldn't. Because even tho you argue with him in a way you couldn't as a child, he still sees you the way he always did....because that is what narcissists and bad parents do.

You have the potential of having good friends. But your friends do not need to know every detail of your life nor do you need to know every detail of theirs. I think you will be growing friendships in the future as you become more authentic.

Friendships often mean that you have to find the things you and the other person have in common and like to do together and LIMIT yourself to those things with THAT person. For instance, if you like to bike ride or hike or swim, the people who like those things are your friends for THOSE activities....not necessarily for everything else.

If you have friends you like to have lunch or dinner with, then it may be limited to chatting about the world or other issues or events, etc.

But if you want to share deep things, you need a GROUP....either a 12 step group or something of that kind (which is the best as it is free except for a donation at each meeting...passing the basket). OR Group Therapy with a licensed therapist present.
But of course that costs real money....

I have to go....I have PT in a while and have to get ready.....

Have a good day,
LIN
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  #18  
Unread 11-02-2020, 06:51 PM
AquaVenusian AquaVenusian is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post
Thank you for sharing all that ''inner information''. First, not ALL North Americans are conscious....lol....I mean look how many voted for our crazy and stupid President.
Please say a prayer that we have a change of President tomorrow.

Read the book, Are You the One for ME?......I promise you will have an epiphany.
hahahahaha OMG I laughed out loud now !!
Look, in Brazil we aren't far behind you, they managed to elect a misogynist, homophobic and stupid crazy man 10 times worse than your president !!
For sure, I'm praying that all of you, can get rid of this man's government !!
But look, I have a theory about the election of the idiot they put in power here ... he the president has an aquarius moon in his 11th house ... and speaking very superficially about it ... he is the image of many people would like to express freely, things like prejudice against people, prejudice against the lower social class have better conditioning of progress .... I will stop here because this is a very extensive subject !! But I see that he brought "voice" to other crazy people who think like him, and this is scary because they were half the population !!

P.S: I am very excited to start reading, I already read a preview of the book, I really liked it !! I will read in the coming weeks, I am in the final stretch of my online university but as soon as I finish I will read !!


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Now that you told me about your mother in depth I am curious to see her chart if you have her birth information. Even if you only have her date of birth and place of birth.
I'll attach her chart here !! Her birth time is approximate to what my grandmother remembers !!
Some plus, my mom hid her pregnancy from everyone for 9 months, people just knew she was pregnant when she gave birth !! She says she did it because here in Brazil companies fired women who were pregnant, and she was afraid that this could happen to her !!!! This is one of the characteristics that she has in her behavior, in that she really knows how to hide what she wants and who she really is from others !! I can capture some nuances but still, it was always the hardest person for me to be able to read !!
And she got pregnant in an attempt to get rid of my grandparents, she left the farm and came to the city to have freedom and things did not happen as she wanted !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post

Do you have 12 step group programs there? These are recovery programs for people who come from dysfunctional families. (Among other things....and were begun by an American man named Bill Wilson - he started AA) But 12 step programs are not limited to people with alcohol problems, but help their families....and your mother's addiction was work. Even now she is an addict to ''homemaking.'' If you check on line you may find an Al-Anon program in a place near you. They are all over the world. And even if there are not legitimate Al-Anon programs you may be able to find a program called ACOA - which is "Adult Children of Alcoholics" - (also known as Adult Children from Dysfunctional Families).

But the John Bradshaw book, "Healing the Shame that Binds You" is brilliant.

Also there is a invaluable book entitled "Healing the Child Within" by Dr. Charles Whitfield. I ate this book UP when I first began reading it and have quoted it and used it a LOT in my work.
Thank you again!! I'll search all of this for sure!!
And yes I see my mother's deviation, after being retired, now she channeled it inside the house ... and she does everything almost automatically!! And she doesn't trust anyone to do her job, she needs to do it herself !!!
I had never thought of it as an addiction, very interesting, I will definitely seek this kind of help in a group designed for people with dysfunctional families.

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Originally Posted by Lin View Post

Having your own home will be a miracle for you!! I don't know how you have functioned as an adult by still living with your mother. It means you have still not developed your own AUTHENTICITY. That will be really something to experience.
When you do get your own home, don't let your mother or anyone else give you advice you don't ask for about how to do this or that. Ask YOURSELF.
No, I couldn't develop myself better while I'm here ... for example everything she does for me, like food and clothes washed and ironed I can do for myself, but she, especially in this "transformation" of her, doesn't let that I do it !!
Even if I go out with my friends or for work I need to give notice of where I am going and if I will be late (it makes me angry, she did this to me even when I was in Ireland, trying to control myself) ...
And yes I am very excited about it, I really feel that I need it to develop my authenticity better, and I really hope to do it, because I want to do it without the need for financing to build my own house, it is my goal for the next years, I’m working hard to accomplish this !! It's interesting how life is a process, don't you think !?
Because if you think about it, we are back to the question of TIME, I am being prepared and that is why I wasn't able to leave the house before (I tried, but I had to go back) and today I understand that I have many limitations to take care of, especially with relationships, I can't bring anyone into my future home without this full awareness of what I am doing or who I am relating to !! It was a worrying "naivety" in my behavior, which led me to these disappointments. I need to focus on that now and get all your advice to better enable me for a possible next relationship !! Currently I am in a process of healing from within and when I do that I can't even be available to relate !! And now I will have my time to do that, and take care of my future.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post

Back to your mother: I am sure that she, also, was emotionally abandoned in some way. Because this is what happens in families. That is why it's known as the dysfunctional family syndrome! It's passed down. Usually through the mother.
Yes, that's why I did what I could to not give her any worries !! I understand the type of experience she had to go through, they were very hard, especially for a child !! Her parents had a lot of power struggles (to this day they do, and that has been with 60 years of marriage) ... she was the only female daughter with 3 other men, and my grandmother made her responsible for the house since she was 5 years old she was the one who cooked for the brothers, and took care of the house ... I believe that my mother was kind of forced to suppress her inner child, because a lot of responsibility was demanded of her at such a young age. To start, my grandmother accompanied my grandfather in the heavy work of the farm, besides that she doesn't like housework very much.
I'll stop here, we can talk more after you look at her chart !!
I hope that the pattern of this syndrome ends with me and doesnt pass on to possible children that I will have or adopt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post

I am surprised you STILL talk with this man who is your biological father. I know I wouldn't. Because even tho you argue with him in a way you couldn't as a child, he still sees you the way he always did....because that is what narcissists and bad parents do.
Well, he was never present in my life ... and a few years ago he was trying, and I gave him countless chances to get close to me !! But wow, even talking about him today disgusts me !! It was exactly a year ago that I cut all ties with him !!
Last year he wanted to deceive me, saying he was going to buy a house for me, but of course with conditions that I would live with his family and work at his company !! So, my family told me to try to give him this opportunity ... I went against my will, I already knew it wasn't going to work and I knew that what he was promising was just illusions (typical of narcissists) .. And it was one of the worst times of my life !! I felt all my energy being sucked into that house !!
I felt the envy of my sisters and my stepmother towards me ... they looking at everything I did and how I did it (because I have natural social and natural negotiation skills in me, I am very open and friendly with people and with my clients) and because I am a free spirit and a social butterfly, they didn't like it (because they aren't like that and they can't be, because my father is extremely dominant of all of them) ... my energies almost ran out, to the point, of my grandmother asking what was happening to me because I looked depressed.
Did you ever feel that? did you feel your energy being sucked in?! This all happened when I was back with my ex too (this critical period was when I went to my father's family it was the same period that I had gone back with my ex for the 3rd time), and now for almost a year I cut ties with my father's family and after almost 7 months that my relationship ended, just now that I am feeling my energy gradually returning !! I had never felt my energy suck as much as I felt in this specific period, and only now that I see and can measure the extent of the damage done, because of the difficulty I have been having in getting my energy back in these last months until now!! One of my best friends told me that I was no longer being me in that period ... I even doubted my selling skills, and this natural ability I have had since I was 4 or 5 years old.
So, I cut ties with my father and his family and now for me it will be definitive !! I experienced what I needed to be sure about it !! But now I also have to deal with my sisters and he stalking my social professional page.
I tried to be objective about this experience, but he was always the worst of narcissists and I even felt sorry for his wife, I witnessed very absurd and cruel scenes that he did with her in front of me, verbal aggression and humiliation.
Today I thank God and I understand why he and my mother weren't together, I think that this way was the best that could have happened to us.
If you want to take a look at his chart I also have an approximate time !!
He is a Libra sun, with Aries rising and moon conjunct saturn in aquarius.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post

You have the potential of having good friends. But your friends do not need to know every detail of your life nor do you need to know every detail of theirs. I think you will be growing friendships in the future as you become more authentic.

Friendships often mean that you have to find the things you and the other person have in common and like to do together and LIMIT yourself to those things with THAT person. For instance, if you like to bike ride or hike or swim, the people who like those things are your friends for THOSE activities....not necessarily for everything else.

If you have friends you like to have lunch or dinner with, then it may be limited to chatting about the world or other issues or events, etc.

But if you want to share deep things, you need a GROUP....either a 12 step group or something of that kind (which is the best as it is free except for a donation at each meeting...passing the basket). OR Group Therapy with a licensed therapist present.
But of course that costs real money....

I have to go....I have PT in a while and have to get ready.....

Have a good day,
LIN
Thank you very much for the tips, I really understand that I need to make this difference with my friends too !! I need to allocate each friendship for each common interest !! I hope this will happen with my friendships, because in the present and the past few years I am being kind of forced to leave behind many people, situations and behaviors that no longer serve me.
Yes, to share deep subjects I have only one friend who is an astrologer, he is from Poland !! (and if you are available for friendships, you can count on me too, we share many profound subjects here, it would be nice to have you as a friend)
I participated in a forum in the USA that had very good methods (Zarathu) in the last 3 years I was able to share many profound things in the forum, but now it gave a break, we don't know if the analyzes will work again !! I believe that if you don't know this forum, and if the page comes back again, you might like it too !!

Thanks for everything!!
All the blessings and positive vibes for you !!

Last edited by AquaVenusian; 11-02-2020 at 09:19 PM.
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  #19  
Unread 11-02-2020, 06:57 PM
AquaVenusian AquaVenusian is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

I almost forgot to post her chart.
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  #20  
Unread 11-03-2020, 07:43 PM
Lin Lin is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

The grand trine in water with Neptune ruling the MC and IN the 6th house represents her ''escaping'' into whatever work she does....that's the addiction.
Venus rules the 6th house.....and even tho it's part of the grand trine, it also squares her Moon. The moon requires emotional involvement and the Moon/Venus square makes it impossible to be personally involved emotionally.

She also has Mars and Moon inconjunct - so that a really a terrible addition to this already difficult chart which has as it's core a t-square in mutable signs.
Had your ''father'' be a real father there would have been many mitigating circumstances....but as it happened, you were a victim. The important thing now is to stop being a victim. Stop expecting it and stop enabling it.

LIN
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  #21  
Unread 11-05-2020, 01:02 PM
AquaVenusian AquaVenusian is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

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The grand trine in water with Neptune ruling the MC and IN the 6th house represents her ''escaping'' into whatever work she does....that's the addiction.
Venus rules the 6th house.....and even tho it's part of the grand trine, it also squares her Moon. The moon requires emotional involvement and the Moon/Venus square makes it impossible to be personally involved emotionally.

She also has Mars and Moon inconjunct - so that a really a terrible addition to this already difficult chart which has as it's core a t-square in mutable signs.
Had your ''father'' be a real father there would have been many mitigating circumstances....but as it happened, you were a victim. The important thing now is to stop being a victim. Stop expecting it and stop enabling it.

LIN
I think the ruler of her 6th house is Mars, don't you think ?!

Why do I look for an emotional connection, when I never had one ?! would be the need for my moon? You know why I really am able to stand on my own !! But in terms of relationship, my ideal is someone emotionally there for me, you know, because my pluto squares are really difficult, and my life is a constant of ups and downs ... and when life hits me hard, all I would need in a partner would be emotional support !! At least that's what I think I need (but I'm still going to read the book you indicated, I found the book "Healing the shame that binds you" ... and I'm deciding whether to buy the book "Are you the one for me? "version in english or portuguese, I found both !!
As I said about my father, I haven't wanted a connection for a while, this last bad experience I tried only because my family influenced me, here in Brazil families tend to give importance to these family bonds, even though they are not worthy !!

Best wishes for you LIN.

P.S: Again, thank you very much, and we are here rooting for Biden !! We are shocked by the result of florida in favor of Trump

Last edited by AquaVenusian; 11-05-2020 at 01:06 PM.
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  #22  
Unread 11-05-2020, 02:51 PM
Lin Lin is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

Florida is Republican and has been a very long time. Even the Cuban population in the south of Florida tends to be republican even tho they are the descendants of immigrants from the '60s. I guess time stands still there.

Your mom's 6th house is ruled by Pluto as it is the sign of Scorpio.

As far as why you look for an emotional connection....because you are human. Humans have the need to feel emotions and not just impulses like animals.
In fact, some animals also have emotions.

And you have the moon in the 8th house....that is one of the partnership houses. And in Libra, the sign of ''the partner''. So you are stuck with it.

What you need to do is ''understand'' it....that is what therapy is for or self help materials.

There is nothing wrong with you to try to find the ''experience of being alive''.

But your experience is connected from childhood with being ''abandoned'' and therefore you continue to experience this....because you don't know how to do it differently.

that is why these bookd are vital. And if you read English fluently, I would by the book in English. It's very ''to the point''. Sometimes translations are not exact.

LIN
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  #23  
Unread 11-06-2020, 10:00 PM
AquaVenusian AquaVenusian is offline
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Re: BPD or Bipolar?

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Florida is Republican and has been a very long time. Even the Cuban population in the south of Florida tends to be republican even tho they are the descendants of immigrants from the '60s. I guess time stands still there.

Your mom's 6th house is ruled by Pluto as it is the sign of Scorpio.

As far as why you look for an emotional connection....because you are human. Humans have the need to feel emotions and not just impulses like animals.
In fact, some animals also have emotions.

And you have the moon in the 8th house....that is one of the partnership houses. And in Libra, the sign of ''the partner''. So you are stuck with it.

What you need to do is ''understand'' it....that is what therapy is for or self help materials.

There is nothing wrong with you to try to find the ''experience of being alive''.

But your experience is connected from childhood with being ''abandoned'' and therefore you continue to experience this....because you don't know how to do it differently.

that is why these bookd are vital. And if you read English fluently, I would by the book in English. It's very ''to the point''. Sometimes translations are not exact.

LIN
Yes I said mars, because some astrologers prefer to use mars instead of pluto, but I particularly prefer pluto !!

let me ask you (please correct me if I wrong), are you making this difference between humans and animals with the representations of the zodiac? Like for example Aquarius (human) and Leo (animal)? Because if it is, WOW how cool !! I love to compare personality in this way too, but there are few that I know who interpret considering this differential !!
I get your point, by the way very clearly!! thanks again =D

you know, I have the impression that the first part of my life in which I have repeated to you that I wasn't very aware of many things .... maybe I have lived through illusions too, because only now I do realize that many things wasn't normal, but at the time I know that I cried (whenever my mom had time to stay with me at night on the weekend and she chose to go out with friends for example) I felt deeply, but I didn't understand it rationally !!
So I realize that now I am on my way to a greater closure of this time and all the pains I had, and how do I need to do this ?! as you mentioned above UNDERSTANDING (look how long it took me to understand my relationship with my ex ... I just knew there was something very wrong) soo understand the situation is the key and after that I need to resolve this within me, giving this conclusions to my own self, because I will never have that conclusion from anyone else ... especially if everyone had narcissistic tendencies, when I speak this is because all I wanted of my parents was love ... my father once told me that what I wanted from him (love), he could never donate me !!
This is very sad ... but I understand the point of this, because in order to search for this love in the external world I need to return inside myself (I believe that this will contribute to my self-esteem too), because to seek this love outside me I believe that the experiences can be more painful ("Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." by Albert Einsten), and the path to the other one can remain dry as the desert of SAARA or put me in a trap situation ... LOL ... what I mean is that most likely I will not get what I always wanted in the other person (LOVE ... life has been clear to me since the beginning, I have to stop and do it differently) and that I may need to change my focus in the interest of forming an intimate partnership, first, lower all my expectations, (these are just my own assumptions before to read the books you indicated) ... this year was very difficult, but I have been feeling the initial phase of great transformations that are coming my way, because currently, I have been enjoying the little things that I have been doing for me and my only fear, is to become a narcissist, because I was always a donor person, but it only led me to end up bankrupt every time ... sooo, now that I can see the most realistic things and know exactly how people really are, at the same time that I have to make a massive transformation of discernment in the way I see people, taking off my pink glasses ... I can tell you that I can't continue doing and relating to people in the same way! ! I need to change drastically !! And I hope to achieve that !!

Well I have no life, only when i'm emotionally involved ... but when I'm alone and my energy is full in myself I feel a lot better (it's too early to say for sure about it) because I'm figuring out how to enjoy my own company without seeking the need to share my all my energie and resources to please others.
I didn't fully understand my 8th house libra moon, if the goal would be to deepen an intimate relationship or get out of intimate relationships and get back to myself !! When I see my history, of intimate relationships I get totally discouraged for the future !! But on the other hand I think that I just need to transform the way of relating !! But now, while I can’t transform I can’t even think about relating for a long time !!

P.S: I think soo, about the books, is better in english!!

Last edited by AquaVenusian; 11-07-2020 at 12:10 AM.
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  #24  
Unread 11-11-2020, 06:29 PM
Lin Lin is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,309
Re: BPD or Bipolar?

(please correct me if I wrong), are you making this difference between humans and animals with the representations of the zodiac? Like for example Aquarius (human) and Leo (animal)? Because if it is, WOW how cool !! I love to compare personality in this way too, but there are few that I know who interpret considering this differential !!
I get your point, by the way very clearly!! thanks again =D

LOL....no. The ''traits'' of the ''symbols'' of the signs are fun to think about....but they are only metaphors.

I personally, however, love to anthropomorphize just about everything. I don't know why this is. Maybe I just ''live'' in a life of symbolism and metaphor. To me, it's so much easier dealing with planets and aspects if you anthropomorphize them. The planets are people in a room. the aspects are the way they ''interact.''

Pluto rules the natural 8th house.....and sign....Scorpio. Pluto represents life and death...creation...pregnancy....and the 8th house is the house of pregnancy and other ''partnership accumulations.." so to speak.

There is no reason you cannot have love. BUT....what you are REALLY looking for is your MOTHER only - changed - into someone who will value and cherish you and the time she has with you.

So there can be people who will love you....but if they love you unconditionally YOU may not be able to value it...because in YOUR psyche it's only love if FIRST they are really ''hard to get'' and then they love you. If you are only interested or are only attracted to people who are hard to get and don't value you, then you will still be in that vicious cycle. That is really the bottom line.

It really is up to you to open your eyes and heart to people who may actually like and love you for yourself. But if you believe deeply that this is impossible, then that is something you need professional help with.

LIN
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  #25  
Unread 11-15-2020, 11:37 PM
AquaVenusian AquaVenusian is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 119
Re: BPD or Bipolar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post
(please correct me if I wrong), are you making this difference between humans and animals with the representations of the zodiac? Like for example Aquarius (human) and Leo (animal)? Because if it is, WOW how cool !! I love to compare personality in this way too, but there are few that I know who interpret considering this differential !!
I get your point, by the way very clearly!! thanks again =D

LOL....no. The ''traits'' of the ''symbols'' of the signs are fun to think about....but they are only metaphors.

I personally, however, love to anthropomorphize just about everything. I don't know why this is. Maybe I just ''live'' in a life of symbolism and metaphor. To me, it's so much easier dealing with planets and aspects if you anthropomorphize them. The planets are people in a room. the aspects are the way they ''interact.''
me too!! I love it !! And I think it fits like a glove when we use it to observe human behavior.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post

Pluto rules the natural 8th house.....and sign....Scorpio. Pluto represents life and death...creation...pregnancy....and the 8th house is the house of pregnancy and other ''partnership accumulations.." so to speak.

There is no reason you cannot have love. BUT....what you are REALLY looking for is your MOTHER only - changed - into someone who will value and cherish you and the time she has with you.

well, I took my time to answer this, because it had a small impact on my emotional !!
When I read it, it brought tears to my eyes !! Because this is so complex for me, and changing the pattern isn't easy !!
I really demand change from others (I know this very well) ... I witnessed my mother's change towards me for example ... (and now this is even inappropriate for my relationship with my mother) ... and I also know that it is very possible for my ex to transform as well, and come towards me, I feel it in every way you can imagine ... it makes me shiver, because it has gone through so much pain, it has required a lot for me to heal myself, that now I don't see any sense of returning to the relationship and I don't want anymore.
I had an another ex before this one that we talking about... who was the best person in my life, but this relationship didn't leave the platonic realm, and I was at a stage in my life that my homosexuality wasn't yet fully aware for me, so, this was a relationship that I initially built not revealing who I really was !! I revealed it later, and it was a shock for her for two years after that, so she tried to relate to someone else during this 2years period, and then she spoke to me again saying that I was a very important person to her, but at this time I was already with this is my ex from the thread ... the beginning with the previous ex wasn't honest, and I thought it would be a lot to clean up and start again with a clean slate, it was something I did that I am not proud about this past !!
But do you know why she was the best person in my life ?! Because she was acting like a mothe and she is already a mother ... she had a 7 year old daughter at this time ... and she treated me like a daughter, even from a distance she took care of me, above all, she even smothered me with her care !!
But this way I felt her love, I knew she loved me very much !!
She was a scorpio (with a stellium there in her 7th house) aries rising and taurus moon (sitting in my north node).
She woke up in the middle of the night to call me and wake me up to take medicine. She had a time that many times she didn't have to be with me !! She did her best to appreciate the time we had together, even over the phone.
I still feel that I owe her a lot, everything she did for me, even from a distance.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post

So there can be people who will love you....but if they love you unconditionally YOU may not be able to value it...because in YOUR psyche it's only love if FIRST they are really ''hard to get'' and then they love you. If you are only interested or are only attracted to people who are hard to get and don't value you, then you will still be in that vicious cycle. That is really the bottom line.

It really is up to you to open your eyes and heart to people who may actually like and love you for yourself. But if you believe deeply that this is impossible, then that is something you need professional help with.

LIN
This question of the person loving me as I am is complex, because I feel that when the person loves me for who I am, I think it is better that it remains as friendship. It's strange, I don't have much control over my behavior in this part, it seems that I feel like I don't want to ruin that relationship, that's why I take it to the side of friendship.
Slowly but surely, I'll work on this with myself !!
Thanks a lot again... to reveal this thinks for me!!
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