How do you interpret oppositions that aren't in opposite signs?

david starling

Well-known member
Not static.
In a horary, less, in a natal more.
in a synastry 3.
Don't ask my why, I don't have a ready reference for you.
Not sure if the orbs vary based on the weight of the planet(s) involved. What do you think?

Most give the Moon and Sun the widest possible orb. I use a standard 5 degree Orb, for all of the "Indicators" of major importance. That's 1-sixth of a 30 degree Sign, which somehow appeals to me.

I consider the term "Orb" in this context to mean "sphere of influence" along the path of the zodiac. Greatest influence is at the exact longitudinal position of the Indicator, then weakening (but still important) towards the outskirts.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Most give the Moon and Sun the widest possible orb.
I use a standard 5 degree Orb, for all of the "Indicators" of major importance. That's 1-sixth of a 30 degree Sign, which somehow appeals to me.
I consider the term "Orb" in this context to mean "sphere of influence" along the path of the zodiac. Greatest influence is at the exact longitudinal position of the Indicator, then weakening (but still important) towards the outskirts.
wh.gif
- Aspects show an influence in the period leading up to exactness
and
a diminishing effect as they separate from perfection.
The time-span in which their effect may be expected to manifest
and linger
is defined by the period that they are said to be 'in orb'.
Traditionally, orbs of influence were applied to planets
not the aspects themselves
with the Sun and Moon recognised as having
a greater 'virtue' and orb of influence than the planets.

For example, one popular list defines the Sun's orb as 15°
the Moon's orb as 12°
and the orb of Mercury, Venus and Mars as 7°.

To know if two planets are 'in orb of application'
their orbs are added together and halved
- if the planets are separated by less than that distance
they are said to be 'in application'.

Eg :smile:
Sun and Moon:
Orbs are 15° + 12°
so 27° divided by 2 = 13°30'.
Thus the Sun and Moon are 'in orb' of any aspect


when they are less than 13°30' from the point of exactness.
Sun and Mars:
Orbs are 15° + 7°
so 22° divided by 2 = 11°.
Thus the Sun and Mars are 'in orb' of any aspect
when they are less than 11° from the point of exactness.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
A planet at 28 degrees Leo
for example
trines a planet at 2 degrees Sagittarius according to the relationship of the SIGNS
but is close to an exact square
when the planetary positions are measured from degree to degree. :smile:


In classical astrology the latter is known as a partile aspect because it considers the 'parts' aka DEGREE
rather than the SIGNS.

Aspects judged according to the relationship of the SIGNS
are called PLATICK
from a term which meant 'plate' or 'broad area'.


In later astrology
the term PARTILE generally referred
to aspects which were exact or near perfection
whereas PLATICK referred to those which were 'loose'
or within the limits of their recognised orbs.


plat.gif
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects.html#ado
 

david starling

Well-known member
To answer the question, I'd say that the Orbs can be in opposition, even though the Longitudinal positions are not in opposite Signs. These would be labeled as "out-of-Sign Oppositions".

However, out-of-Sign Oppositions, while worth noting, are less influential in the chart than in-Sign Oppositions. Same goes for the other Aspects.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
Because aspects are geometry, not sign based. Oppositions are +/-180°. Quincunxes (inconjuncts) are +/-150°.

But this Sun/Chiron should not count as an opposition since it is over 7.5° wide involving an asteroid.
This might be a modern concept, but certainly is not how oppositions originated and were logically understood in traditional Astrology.

The logic behind opposition is the opposing temperaments and elements of two signs. Airy and moist Libra (ruled by Venus) is the opposite of hot and dry Aries (ruled by Mars). So it is the temperaments that stand in opposition to each other, which is why the signs are said to be in opposition to each other.
 

petosiris

Banned
The logic behind opposition is the opposing temperaments and elements of two signs. Airy and moist Libra (ruled by Venus) is the opposite of hot and dry Aries (ruled by Mars). So it is the temperaments that stand in opposition to each other, which is why the signs are said to be in opposition to each other.

In Hellenistic astrology, the most common element assigned to the sign was corresponding to the season - so dry and moderately cold Libra is opposed by moist and moderately hot Aries, hot and moderately dry Cancer by cold and moderately moist Capricorn and so on. Although this holds for the zodiac, it doesn't necessarily hold for the planets. For example, the Sun at 1 Aries is obviously in opposition to an almost Whole Moon at 29 Virgo. You may technically even have a total eclipse in different signs.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
To answer the question, I'd say that the Orbs can be in opposition, even though the Longitudinal positions are not in opposite Signs. These would be labeled as "out-of-Sign Oppositions".
However, out-of-Sign Oppositions, while worth noting,

are less influential in the chart than in-Sign Oppositions. Same goes for the other Aspects.
"out-of-Sign oppositions" have considerable impact on the life of the native :smile:
dependent on the totality of testimonies of the individual natal chart
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
"I consider the term "Orb" in this context to mean "sphere of influence"
Very well expressed.
Thank you.
The difference between ORB and SPHERE :smile:

WHEN USED AS NOUNS - ORB MEANS A SPHERICAL BODY
i.e.

a spherical body such as a globe
especially, one of the celestial spheres - a sun, planet, or star

also
a circle - especially, a circle, or nearly circular orbit
described by the revolution of a heavenly body
an ORBIT

whereas

SPHERE means a regular three-dimensional object
in which every cross-section is a circle.
such as
a spherical physical object - a globe or ball


WHEN USED AS VERBS - orb means to form into an ORB or CIRCLE
whereas
SPHERE means to place in a sphere - or among the spheres :smile:
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
In Hellenistic astrology, the most common element assigned to the sign was corresponding to the season - so dry and moderately cold Libra is opposed by moist and moderately hot Aries, hot and moderately dry Cancer by cold and moderately moist Capricorn and so on. Although this holds for the zodiac, it doesn't necessarily hold for the planets. For example, the Sun at 1 Aries is obviously in opposition to an almost Whole Moon at 29 Virgo. You may technically even have a total eclipse in different signs.
Hexagon or sextile signs have masculine or feminine incorporeal gender in common. :smile:


Hence, the word, Sextile. :whistling:
fact-check :smile:

the word SEXtile is derived as follows
In geometry, a hexagon from Greek ἕξ HEX "six" and γωνία, gonía, "corner, angle"
= a SIX-sided polygon

from LATIN - the Roman Numeral 6 is written 'VI' & pronounced 'sex' in Latin



hqdefault.jpg
 

david starling

Well-known member
fact-check :smile:

the word SEXtile is derived as follows
In geometry, a hexagon from Greek ἕξ HEX "six" and γωνία, gonía, "corner, angle"
= a SIX-sided polygon

from LATIN - the Roman Numeral 6 is written 'VI' & pronounced 'sex' in Latin



hqdefault.jpg

Really?!? :surprised: You mean it has nothing to do with Sextile signs being of the same gender? Well, I stand corrected! :biggrin:
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
In fact, it seems the important factor is the number of degrees between the two, not whether they share sign or element.
A trine can also be out of sign.

When day is thought of as the opposite of night, it is because of its temperament. Night is cool and dark. Day is warm and bright. Not because there is any geometrical degrees to be considered.

In Astrology also, the reason two signs oppose each other is because of their temperaments, not simply because of the degrees or geometry, which is hardly a basis by itself to consider two signs in opposition.

Astrology is based upon the temperament, element and energies of signs and planets. That is the fundamental underlying concept and extremely important to understand. This is exactly the reason why we say that Venus is weakened in the hot and dry Aries. Therefore the energy of Venus, which supports partnership (two) is lost in the sign of individuality of Aries.
In Taurus, when the cold season is gradually turning to warm spring and nature is beginning to come back to life, Venus, which is all about beauty, tranquility and nature thrives in Tau. However, it is lost in the sign of Sco, where the temperament changes to cold, wet and dark perfectly reflecting transformation and endings. The flora starts withering away and loses its colour and beauty. These are the reasons that these signs oppose eachother because their energies are in opposition. Not simply because they are 180* apart. This is why understanding the fundamental concepts behind those planets and signs is so important, especially for those that practise Horary, where especially we talk about concepts of dignities and debilities.
 

petosiris

Banned
Do oppositions occur at the equator then? If aspects are based on sign temperament, the answer would be no. Yet you see different phases relative to the Sun.

Day and night in astrology is not decided with temperament, but with the Sun rising or setting over the degree of the Asc/Dsc.
 
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ElenaJ

Well-known member
So, Aquarius7000, two planets in opposition but one at zero degrees and the other 29 degrees of two different signs, you would not consider an opposition ?
 
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