Arabic Parts: The Part of POWERFUL FRIENDS

piercethevale

piercethevale

Well-known member
I'm going to tentatively propose that these two combos are as you say, P.V. and post as such in the Parts thread.

...thanks again...
P.V. Why don't you apply for membership at actastrology.com and then you can post your findings. You can use me as a ref. if you think you might need to.
 
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Phoenix Venus

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Thank you PTV for your support :)


Sure, i'll make a post at the actastrology forum when i get a chance..


If this is a legitamate possible assessment of the part, you are right it needs further studying before we jump to any conclusions. So if anyone would like to demonstrate why this method works or doesn't work for them, it would be greatly appreciated. (I'm looking at you, Zarathu, for your critical analysis.)


One way to study this part is by looking at people in your life that have planets/points at both of these points, and noting the type of relationship.


For instance, off the top of my head,


Piercethevale's moon and IC are loosely conjunct my point Sun - POF. (about a degree away if i remember correctly.) I would definitely say that he is a noble friend who has influenced me in many ways.


Another friend at another forum (yes it's juiceyj lol) has his sun and asc conjunct this point, SUN - POF. I've asked him about many astrological topics that i hadn't known much about otherwise. His vast knowledge influenced me greatly.


(both of these people influenced me through astrology.. the symbol talks nothing of that. I'd say pretty assuredly that both of these points represent the PEOPLE rather than the type of influence.)


I know someone else whose ascendant is conjunct my point, POF - SUN. She has gone to me quite a few times for personal advice, and i've also given her a lot of info regarding (gasp) "the hidden powers that are working against humanity" which has influenced some of her personal and world views.


I also note the interesting dynamic between "male" and "female" in my symbols and how this relates to real life. Granted, I wouldn't expect to find this in every case, although the feminine or masculine energy of a symbol defintely has some influence over it's meaning.

​
Another way to study these parts, if anyone would like to pursue it further, aside from noting the sabian symbolism, is to look at transits, and note whether you had an experience in which you were influenced by something or you influenced someone/something.
 
piercethevale

piercethevale

Well-known member
Really? I find it very much in the symbolism as to your Part. One cannot be sure if the description of "overcoming passions" was given correctly in the symbolism or if it was, in fact, part of the original description given by Elsie Wheeler. [I'll get around to checking up on that...if someone doesn't beat me to it.]...but as far as the rest of the description goes I find it to be rather 'spot on'.
Though Dane Rudhyar spent most of his lifetime in analyzing and defining these symbols doesn't mean He was entirely infallible... Although I have a feeling he was mostly so.
 
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Phoenix Venus

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Metaphysica said:
My natal sun is 25 Aquarius 56 ヽ(^。^)ノ

Asc 20sag19
Moon 04Leo03
Pof day 28tau26
Pof night 12can12

I was born at 340am and have always felt more "fortunate" from a 7th house part of fortune in cancer. Although, 28 Taurus would be exactly conjunct my Chiron, so maybe would not FEEL so fortunate from that area.

Ps. Don't have my Sabian symbol literature on hand, presently, or else I too, would list the symbols for my parts. (Hehehe)
Click to expand...

Metaphysica, one thing about the POF is that it needs to be activated (through the symbolism) in order to feel any fortunate or beneficial growth. So a POF conjunct chiron could require facing wounds and helping others in order to most beneficially reach spiritual fulfillment.


I can't speak from authority on this matter, but PTV does seem to know what he's talking about, and he uses day formula, and the few night charts that i have analyzed in the read my chart section seem to work using the day formula.


I'd suggest going with whatever works for your chart, but make sure you analyse it from multiple avenues before sticking to one or the other. ( i can speak from experience when i say that i mucked up my own chart before by assuming something about it before i really knew what i was looking at) If you think you can, analyse each symbol with both methods for both parts of friends, and see which one has been activated by people who have influenced you or people you have influenced... in order to see which formula works for you. (you could do this with other parts involving the formula too, and look at transits to those parts)


Here's another example for the POF - SUN formula.


Kurt Cobain - I'm pretty sure that the chart for him is accurate within about a degree. This is his symbol:


Scorpio 30:
​
[/quote]CHILDREN IN HALLOWEEN COSTUMES INDULGE IN VARIOUS PRANKS.​
​
KEYNOTE:​
The periodic outlets society furnishes within traditional limits to still-immature energies. ​

In the symbol for the first degree of Scorpio we see individuals beginning to be involved in the collective life of a large city. This leads them to a great diversity of experience which stimulates their sense of belonging to a vaster whole; or it may stimulate their rebellious instincts. Some of the latter in most cases cannot be completely overcome, but society has built in several ways of allowing them to operate under ritualistic procedures that are sufficiently safe to the collectivity. Wherever this symbol is found, the need for such outlets is shown to exist. But the rules of the game have to be obeyed.
This is the last symbol referring to Scene Sixteen of the great ritual of cyclic being. It tells us that in any feeling experience of collective living and inter-human relationships one has to deal with unregenerated and centrifugal elements. These should be carefully managed. They can also be controlled by the power of mind – the Sagitarrian way. The symbol points to an imaginative RELIEF FROM TENSION. ​

[/quote]

​
Think about all of those young people who were GREATLY AFFECTED by this man, through the use of grunge alternative music, which was a genre that spoke to people who were seeking a rebellious or "*alternative*" approach to society.
 
Phoenix Venus

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
piercethevale said:
Really? I find it very much in the symbolism as to your Part. One cannot be sure if the description of "overcoming passions" was given correctly in the symbolism or if it was, in fact, part of the original description given by Elsie Wheeler. [I'll get around to checking up on that...if someone doesn't beat me to it.]...but as far as the rest of the description goes I find it to be rather 'spot on'.
Though Dane Rudhyar spent most of his lifetime in analyzing and defining these symbols doesn't mean He was entirely infallible... Although I have a feeling he was mostly so.
Click to expand...

oh, i never intended to imply that the symbolism doesn't fit. it most DEFINITELY describes you and some others who have influenced me.

the "overcoming passions part" could just mean.. someone who is more objective.

(since i just started a new page i'd like to point out that i just made another post using kurt cobains chart.. i think it describes his situation pretty accurately.)
 
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piercethevale

piercethevale

Well-known member
Quote
"(both of these people influenced me through astrology.. the symbol talks nothing of that. I'd say pretty assuredly that both of these points represent the PEOPLE rather than the type of influence.)"

...perhaps you should then reconsider the words/phrasing that you employed?
It left me with the impression that you were either dismissing it or diminishing it to an extreme extent.
 
piercethevale

piercethevale

Well-known member
You've got to remember that these symbols are given for multitudes of Humanity and are timeless.
To expect it to specifically state "teaches Astrology" would be a bit 'far out'....wouldn't you say?
 
Phoenix Venus

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
oh, you meant in reference to astrology?


Maybe in a roundabout way.

​
When i say that it describes the person rather than the type of influence, i don't think those are completely mutually exlusive, and actually the way someone influences you is dependent upon the way the person is. That's moreso what i meant, rather than to say it doesn't describe the "type of influence" AT ALL, it's rooted in the person itself rather than the influence... at least, thats what it seems so far to me. I wouldn't want to make too many assumptions, this very well could be completely wrong.
 
Phoenix Venus

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
piercethevale said:
You've got to remember that these symbols are given for multitudes of Humanity and are timeless.
To expect it to specifically state "teaches Astrology" would be a bit 'far out'....wouldn't you say?
Click to expand...

no i get that. but i was thinking the symbol seemed more universal and not exclusively relating to astrology. Upon reading it with astrology in mind, it does actually relate to astrology in many ways. (teaching others about experience.)

I never meant to diminish either the vast nature of the symbols or astrology. Perhaps i spoke too curtly. And perhaps i was looking at the symbol a bit naively or lacking clear perception. :(:love:
 
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princess valhalla

princess valhalla

Well-known member
Hey! Not sure if this helps but the formula that Zarathu uses is listed at the Arabic Parts calculator, http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/ , under FAMOUS FRIENDS.
For myself using this formula, I got 18:scorpio:2.
The 19th of Scorpio
[ibid.]

"A PARROT REPEATS THE CONVERSATION HE HAS OVERHEARD.
KEYNOTE: The capacity to transmit transcendental knowledge.

To the individual who lives in a state of ardent and sustained faith it may become possible to become a channel for the trans-mission of a knowledge or wisdom that transcends his normal mental understanding. The mind that has learned to be silent and attentive can become attuned to the rhythm of utterances which he may not comprehend intellectually, yet which may truly manifest superhuman realizations. Discrimination is needed here to balance the over-eagerness of faith.

At this fourth stage of the five-fold sequence of symbols we are given a hint as to man's capacity to attune himself to sources of higher wisdom if he can be sufficiently attentive and careful in channeling a "higher Voice." To stress here the negative element of automatism and unintelligent repetition is to use only one's intellect. All birds in symbolism suggest spiritual faculties or forces. What is evoked is the possibility of learning from higher Intelligences. Keyword: CHANNELSHIP."


I can't calculate your formula p.t.v. b/c I don't know how to calculate it by hand!! :surprised: lol But, my ascendant is 22:taurus:18. my :parsfortunae: is 25:gemini:08. My :sun: is 29:sagittarius:24.
 
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piercethevale

piercethevale

Well-known member
Phoenix Venus said:
no i get that. but i was thinking the symbol seemed more universal and not exclusively relating to astrology. Upon reading it with astrology in mind, it does actually relate to astrology in many ways. (teaching others about experience.)

I never meant to diminish either the vast nature of the symbols or astrology. Perhaps i spoke too curtly. And perhaps i was looking at the symbol a bit naively or lacking clear perception. :(:love:
Click to expand...

It's just lack of experience in dealing with the symbols...as I see it.
Like I tried to point out above...these are timeless precepts given modern interpretation from a relatively modern clairvoyants' perception of them. They have to be considered a bit 'broadly' when relating to them. There does seem to be an exception or two, or three..., such as that for the 19th of Pisces. It was apparently 'seen' and described exactly as it would relate to Jesus/Yeshu'a... and I suspect that the 'Ascended Masters' had a hand in that.
Also in the way Rudhyar completely re assembled the symbology for the 30th of Aquarius...I believe that "THEY" had a hand in that as well...as I would have surely missed some important connections without the 2nd effort by Dane.
[...and I am ever more of suspicion that I was here from the get-go in duty and service to "Them"... and to anyone that thinks I might be pumping some bravado into my end of this...or that such a role as I have had to live...{if in fact there is something to my suspicion}... is something glamorous... trust me, I'm not and it ain't... in fact it's a bit of a 'pisser' to have to live through over 50 or 60 years of illusion and be somewhat controlled the whole time and then find out about it...not that I'm complaining, {and again: if my suspicion is true} ...I'm just saying. I do kind of understand the need for such self ignorance though... it isn't too hard to figure out why, either,]
 
Phoenix Venus

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Hi Princess Valhalla, you don't have to specify which formula you are using to calculate a part at the noendpress calculator. Every calculation uses the formula [any degree] + [any degree] - [any degree]

​
So you would just put the asc in the first box, the sun in the second, and pof in the third... and it will calculate. Yours is scorpio 26.34
 
piercethevale

piercethevale

Well-known member
...and P.V. I just know that if you stick with it that you''ll soon be recognized as a 'Master' of this technique if not 'The' or 'One Of The' recognized authorities on the Sabian Symbols as well.
Time will tell... but I'd "Buy that for a dollar":wink:
 
piercethevale

piercethevale

Well-known member
princess valhalla said:
Hey! Not sure if this helps but the formula that Zarathu uses is listed at the Arabic Parts calculator, http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/ , under FAMOUS FRIENDS.
For myself using this formula, I got 18:scorpio:2.
The sabian symbol is:
A PARROT REPEATS THE CONVERSATION HE HAS OVERHEARD.
KEYNOTE: The capacity to transmit transcendental knowledge.

To the individual who lives in a state of ardent and sustained faith it may become possible to become a channel for the trans-mission of a knowledge or wisdom that transcends his normal mental understanding. The mind that has learned to be silent and attentive can become attuned to the rhythm of utterances which he may not comprehend intellectually, yet which may truly manifest superhuman realizations. Discrimination is needed here to balance the over-eagerness of faith.

At this fourth stage of the five-fold sequence of symbols we are given a hint as to man's capacity to attune himself to sources of higher wisdom if he can be sufficiently attentive and careful in channeling a "higher Voice." To stress here the negative element of automatism and unintelligent repetition is to use only one's intellect. All birds in symbolism suggest spiritual faculties or forces. What is evoked is the possibility of learning from higher Intelligences. Keyword: CHANNELSHIP.


I can't calculate your formula p.t.v. b/c I don't know how to calculate it by hand!! :surprised: lol But, my ascendant is 22:taurus:18. my :parsfortunae: is 25:gemini:08. My :sun: is 29:sagittarius:24.
Click to expand...
Are you using the 'Day formula' for the Part of Fortune?

If so ...then which formula for Part of Noble and Illustrious Acq. did you utilize. Sun - PoF or PoF - Sun to get the 19th of Scorpio...

...which, btw... Is the Part of Intelligence I get from the Yeshu'a/Jesus natal chart I'm championing for acceptance...
...might be QUITE AUSPICIOUS... ifyaknowaddimean?:wink:
 
piercethevale

piercethevale

Well-known member
If you are using the day formula for your own Part of Fortune [because I don't recommend even considering the alternative...there is no doubt in my mind and my Clairvoyant resource, Clarisse, gave it 101% approval upon my asking...and Clarisse won't b.s. ya if see 'can't visualize' it... she will tell you straight up if she's unable to...or if there's the slightest bit of doubt because of what she sees, she'll tell you so as well.] then the Sun - PoF formula produces 26* :scorpio: 34' ...interestingly that is right in between what I get from my USA natal chart for the Part of Fortune @ 25* :scorpio: 41' and the Part of Delusion [Asc. + :neptune: - :moon:] @ 27* :scorpio: 05'

The 27th of Scorpio
[ibid.]
"A MILITARY BAND MARCHES NOISILY ON THROUGH THE CITY STREETS.

KEYNOTE: The aggressive glorification of cultural values.

Every cultural-social collectivity sooner or later tries to impress the value of its achievements forcibly and noisily upon all those who belong to it, as well as upon foreign onlookers. At the individual-mental level the member of such a collectivity swells with pride and excitement when a display of the excellence of that in which his consciousness and personality are deeply rooted is publicly affirmed. Thus the feeling of social unity binds the individuals of a culture through collective pride.

This second stage symbol contrasts sharply with the first one. Our aggressive, tense, domineering Western civilization is indeed in opposition to the natural spontaneity and instinctive adjustment to nature of tribal societies. The Keyword here is POMP."
 
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princess valhalla

princess valhalla

Well-known member
piercethevale said:
Are you using the 'Day formula' for the Part of Fortune?

If so ...then which formula for Part of Noble and Illustrious Acq. did you utilize. Sun - PoF or PoF - Sun to get the 19th of Scorpio...

...which, btw... Is the Part of Intelligence I get from the Yeshu'a/Jesus natal chart I'm championing for acceptance...
...might be QUITE AUSPICIOUS... ifyaknowaddimean?:wink:
Click to expand...

Hi p.t.v.! Yes, I used the Day Formula for the Part of Fortune. I was born at 2:58pm. On the arabic calculator it uses asc+:parsfortunae:-:sun:. That is how I got the 19th of Scorpio. How do I calculate it by hand to find the sun - PoF degree for myself?

That is awesome about the 19th of Scorpio being Jesus part of intelligence! That is very auspicious! :smile:
 
princess valhalla

princess valhalla

Well-known member
piercethevale said:
If you are using the day formula for your own Part of Fortune [because I don't recommend even considering the alternative...there is no doubt in my mind and my Clairvoyant resource, Clarisse, gave it 101% approval upon my asking...and Clarisse won't b.s. ya if see 'can't visualize' it... she will tell you straight up if she's unable to...or if there's the slightest bit of doubt because of what she sees, she'll tell you so as well.] then the Sun - PoF formula produces 26* :Scorpio: 34' ...interestingly that is right in between what I get from my USA natal chart for the Part of Fortune @ 25* :scorpio: 41' and the Part of Delusion [Asc. + :neptune: - :moon:] @ 27* :scorpio: 05'

The 27th of Scorpio
[ibid.]
"A MILITARY BAND MARCHES NOISILY ON THROUGH THE CITY STREETS.

KEYNOTE: The aggressive glorification of cultural values.

Every cultural-social collectivity sooner or later tries to impress the value of its achievements forcibly and noisily upon all those who belong to it, as well as upon foreign onlookers. At the individual-mental level the member of such a collectivity swells with pride and excitement when a display of the excellence of that in which his consciousness and personality are deeply rooted is publicly affirmed. Thus the feeling of social unity binds the individuals of a culture through collective pride.

This second stage symbol contrasts sharply with the first one. Our aggressive, tense, domineering Western civilization is indeed in opposition to the natural spontaneity and instinctive adjustment to nature of tribal societies. The Keyword here is POMP."
Click to expand...

Lol! I don't like that one as much! :lol: However, it is interesting to me that my husband's natal sun is at 27 degrees 13 mins Scorpio!
 
princess valhalla

princess valhalla

Well-known member
Phoenix Venus said:
Hi Princess Valhalla, you don't have to specify which formula you are using to calculate a part at the noendpress calculator. Every calculation uses the formula [any degree] + [any degree] - [any degree]

​
So you would just put the asc in the first box, the sun in the second, and pof in the third... and it will calculate. Yours is scorpio 26.34
Click to expand...

Thanks Phoenix Venus! I didn't know that you didn't have to specify a formula! :lol: That is VERY helpful!! :love:
 
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