Why is it a recurring theme of having a woman enemy in the workplace?

anjelik said:

I want to respond to all of the other posts but I'm in the car now but did want to respond to this.

Normally I would agree or say that I could understand this perspective, however, I have never relied on my looks or charm in order to get ahead in life. In fact, I was always a bit of an overweight child and into my late teens so a personality was something that I needed to develop in order to get anywhere since I was going to make friends or boyfriends based on just walking into a room. I won't argue that I don't have a difficult time getting a job but I oddly have had a strong work ethic even as a child when I would set up a lemonade stand and hang signs around the neighborhood to make some money to when I had a babysitting circuit going on my block so I was the richest 14 year old anyone knew. But again, I do get why you might think that, but I just refuse to accept that I have ever been handed anything just based on looks and charm. I do think being overweight and not feeling attractive as a child is the reason why I have such a large personality for a now attractive woman. I also do think that being icy was always my way of sifting out the assholes and people who would hurt me or make fun of me. So I don't waste my time on catty b*tches or superficial people. To me, this woman is everything I try to avoid. I can't stand fake people or just people who want to try and hurt others out of jealousy or trying to elevate themselves. This is the kind of person who makes me stay reserved and seem aloof. I hope this gives a little more color.

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I suggest you engage Frisengal or Waybread then, ask about Lilith - I am just learning about her role in my chart.

Your honesty is appreciated in your response. Some of the cutest and most charming gals I've ever known were or are chubby who have Venus in 1st - don't bring weight into it - bring knowing how you use your charms into it.

Seriously - look at what your 1st house is presenting when you first meet and interact with others. First impressions most often take heed.

You don't need to dummy down your charms - you need to use them for all women because of that moon. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Uranus in 10th - surprise attacks opposing the moon from 10th - knowing how to work people for the common good inspite of your emotions and 'stand back' leanings.

Sisterhood - not enemies - think on those lines. Once you make that place of I got your back, grrrllll - and ditch the place of you're all agaiinst me - you'll figure it out.

Most people would LOVE a Venus on Asc. Just make it pretty, as is required.

Define....pretty...???

katydid said:

It is interesting that you equate reaching out warmly to others as a weakness that can be exploited. That might be your Moon/Uranus opposition speaking there.

But it is not really considered by most people to be a weakness. It is actually a strength. And if you could sincerely warm up to and befriend those women that feel intimidated by you, their manipulations would cease. They do those underhanded things out of fear that you are cold and distant and will harm them in some way. So if you show them that it is not your intention, then things will go smoother.



So I disagree that there is nothing you can do to change your behavior. If some people feel that you do not always make a good first impression because you seem aloof, distant or cold, then that is something that can be altered somewhat. Not totally because you are who you are. Mercury in Aquarius in the first is cool, eccentric and unique. That is wonderful. But maybe just a wee bit of Piscean compassion and empathy mixed in at the same time ail go a long way?

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I do think I need to change my behavior, but it doesn't feel authentic. On Friday my manager called me to tell me that she spoke with the woman about the feedback and she said she seemed concerned that I was upset since I wasn't in on Friday (I was working from home). But then tried to say that she only gave the feedback as constructive/developmental feedback. Which I would like to think is true, but if she truly wanted to help me then she would have given me the feedback directly or to my manager and not gone three levels above me. Realistically I think that she didn't assume her feedback would come directly back to me. She probably assumed her feedback would be heard and then it would be like planting a little seed as opposed to being addressed. But that is because she gave her feedback to a man and in general men just handle the issue and move on (from my experience). Now I feel really awkward because my manager suggested we get coffee and I just think it's all so fake at this point. I do have to be nice, but why do I have to act in a way that makes me uncomfortable in order to make someone else feel less insecure? I understand the advice here, but I don't think the same advice would be given to a man if he behaved the way that I do. No one would tell a man to appear softer - it's quite sexist for my manager to even suggest that (although I know she is coming from a good place, so I'm not going to hold it against her.. but seriously!).

sibylline said:

If it is known to you or becomes known to you, then it is open (secret enemies = 12th house). And the actions do not have to be direct, that depends on the planets and signs involved. The Moon is not likely to be directly confrontational.

When I first got into astrology I completely ignored the part about the 7th representing open enemies. One day I realized most/all of the people who have directly opposed me or turned out to be a fake friend were strongly Gemini types who used their "clever way with words" to try to take me down (Mercury in 7th). Male and female. Usually they did so behind my back (Merc squ Pluto).


I understand. Cap Risings are not at all fond of showing their softer side and hate to appear vulnerable. I agree with katydid's comments on your Moon...you may want to look into that.

I also agree with katydid that being softer doesn't mean you are weak. You can be more open, receptive, and compassionate but still stand your ground. And yes, some women feel intimidated by other women who seem cold and aloof (again, speaking from direct experience). They will likely respond better to you if you made a conscious effort to be softer and more receptive.

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I like my Cap rising. I think it makes me practical and come across as serious and driven, when I could come across as bubbly and stupid. I am happy with who I am generally speaking. I also think I have a stellar RBF (resting b*tch face) but it can't be that intimidating if strangers constantly approach me on the street for directions.

Well my 7th house is ruled by Cancer and I have never really gotten along well with Cancer Sun females or Taurus females. Those are the two Sun signs I don't quite get. My moon is in an air sign, so that may be another reason I am detached. I don't express myself in a mushy and gooey kind of way. One of my good friends has a Leo Moon and Cancer rising with an Aries Sun and she comes across soooooooooo warm. She is one of those people who every person is her bestie. We are very different because I don't call people my best friend unless they earned it. I don't have 10 "besties."

Kitchy said:

I suggest you engage Frisengal or Waybread then, ask about Lilith - I am just learning about her role in my chart.

Your honesty is appreciated in your response. Some of the cutest and most charming gals I've ever known were or are chubby who have Venus in 1st - don't bring weight into it - bring knowing how you use your charms into it.

Seriously - look at what your 1st house is presenting when you first meet and interact with others. First impressions most often take heed.

You don't need to dummy down your charms - you need to use them for all women because of that moon. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Uranus in 10th - surprise attacks opposing the moon from 10th - knowing how to work people for the common good inspite of your emotions and 'stand back' leanings.

Sisterhood - not enemies - think on those lines. Once you make that place of I got your back, grrrllll - and ditch the place of you're all agaiinst me - you'll figure it out.

Most people would LOVE a Venus on Asc. Just make it pretty, as is required.

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I do like my Venus on the AC. I can't complain about it. I know it does add charm and I can use it to my advantage when I want do. I am not above using charm, but I would never use sexuality to get what I want. Being nice and funny and making people laugh is one thing, but being like a little serpent is not my style.

I don't like sisterhood stuff. It makes me want to cringe. I can't watch super girly chick flicks. I never wanted to be in a sorority. I hated being a Girl Scout. I have never craved being a part of a large female group and having some bonding experience. It feels forced to me and makes me uncomfortable. It is just frustrating to me that in order to be accepted I need to surrender to this sort of false reality where everyone loves each other and is best friends. I don't buy it.


My Lillth is in Sagittarius.... hahaha. I think that is one of the worst signs to have it in because it makes me even more aloff and independent as a woman. I must be giving off crazy vibes to people that don't know me. I have been told by men that have tried to date me that I am really difficult to figure out/pin down.

I do think I need to change my behavior, but it doesn't feel authentic. On Friday my manager called me to tell me that she spoke with the woman about the feedback and she said she seemed concerned that I was upset since I wasn't in on Friday (I was working from home). But then tried to say that she only gave the feedback as constructive/developmental feedback. Which I would like to think is true, but if she truly wanted to help me then she would have given me the feedback directly or to my manager and not gone three levels above me. Realistically I think that she didn't assume her feedback would come directly back to me. She probably assumed her feedback would be heard and then it would be like planting a little seed as opposed to being addressed. But that is because she gave her feedback to a man and in general men just handle the issue and move on (from my experience). Now I feel really awkward because my manager suggested we get coffee and I just think it's all so fake at this point. I do have to be nice, but why do I have to act in a way that makes me uncomfortable in order to make someone else feel less insecure? I understand the advice here, but I don't think the same advice would be given to a man if he behaved the way that I do. No one would tell a man to appear softer - it's quite sexist for my manager to even suggest that (although I know she is coming from a good place, so I'm not going to hold it against her.. but seriously!).

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Here is what my Mercury in Scorpio, and Mars in Capricorn, sees in this situation. I am coming from a square to your Mercury in Aquarius...



You don't think it is right that you should feel uncomfortable trying to coddle someone. And you feel that this woman made false assumptions about you and reported them to the men at the top.

And yet, it seems to me, that you made some assumptions about her, accusing her of flirting in a way that made you cringe, and being a backstabber towards you. And now you feel some kind of way about her.

Why are your assumptions about her any more valid than hers about you?

Also, your question about whether men would be told to appear softer is a bit confusing in this specific context. These are two women superiors of yours, giving you valid feedback about how you can succeed better in this company.

That is your Venus/Mars square talking and it is not relevant in this specific situation, in my opinion. It seems like it is a deflection, not a valid excuse.

That^^^ is just my Mercury in Scorpio, square Pluto talking.

It is not feel 'authentic' to you to go to coffee and reach out to her. I get that. But my challenge to you would be to try and find a place in your heart where it could feel authentic. Try and find that space within where you can understand and find common ground with her. That is one solid way to nip this type of a problem in the bud.

katydid said:

I do think I need to change my behavior, but it doesn't feel authentic. On Friday my manager called me to tell me that she spoke with the woman about the feedback and she said she seemed concerned that I was upset since I wasn't in on Friday (I was working from home). But then tried to say that she only gave the feedback as constructive/developmental feedback. Which I would like to think is true, but if she truly wanted to help me then she would have given me the feedback directly or to my manager and not gone three levels above me. Realistically I think that she didn't assume her feedback would come directly back to me. She probably assumed her feedback would be heard and then it would be like planting a little seed as opposed to being addressed. But that is because she gave her feedback to a man and in general men just handle the issue and move on (from my experience). Now I feel really awkward because my manager suggested we get coffee and I just think it's all so fake at this point. I do have to be nice, but why do I have to act in a way that makes me uncomfortable in order to make someone else feel less insecure? I understand the advice here, but I don't think the same advice would be given to a man if he behaved the way that I do. No one would tell a man to appear softer - it's quite sexist for my manager to even suggest that (although I know she is coming from a good place, so I'm not going to hold it against her.. but seriously!).

=================================================

Here is what my Mercury in Scorpio, and Mars in Capricorn, sees in this situation. I am coming from a square to your Mercury in Aquarius...



You don't think it is right that you should feel uncomfortable trying to coddle someone. And you feel that this woman made false assumptions about you and reported them to the men at the top.

And yet, it seems to me, that you made some assumptions about her, accusing her of flirting in a way that made you cringe, and being a backstabber towards you. And now you feel some kind of way about her.

Why are your assumptions about her any more valid than hers about you?

Also, your question about whether men would be told to appear softer is a bit confusing in this specific context. These are two women superiors of yours, giving you valid feedback about how you can succeed better in this company.

That is your Venus/Mars square talking and it is not relevant in this specific situation, in my opinion. It seems like it is a deflection, not a valid excuse.

That^^^ is just my Mercury in Scorpio, square Pluto talking.

It is not feel 'authentic' to you to go to coffee and reach out to her. I get that. But my challenge to you would be to try and find a place in your heart where it could feel authentic. Try and find that space within where you can understand and find common ground with her. That is one solid way to nip this type of a problem in the bud.

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It is not an assumption, it's fact. She stated very point blank when I went to the initial meeting with my predecessor and her that she thinks this man "has a twinkle in his eye" and whatever else nonsense she said. I then observed her behavior during the meeting and found it to be flirtatious. She even commented that he seemed put off by her smoking (it came out when the other woman apologized for being late because they went to smoke). So, I didn't really make an assumption, especially since my predecessor even poked fun at her for putting on fresh makeup for their meetings. Maybe she doesn't like that I don't think it's cute which could possibly be detected by my lack of interest in her crush. Not sure. And I am not sure if she made assumptions about me or just doesn't like my vibe.

But back to the solution. I will need to warm up as has been suggested and I do think you're right that I need to find a common ground. I just don't warm instantly and so this feels fake to me. I like to warm on my own terms and she frankly turned me ice cold towards her now. If I have to pretend like I'm not put off or that we are suddenly the bestest friends on the planet then that is going to be purely an act. I am going to try my HARDEST to put it in the back of my mind for the sake of my career and personal development. It can't be bad to attempt to do things a different way.

anjelik said:

It is not an assumption, it's fact. She stated very point blank when I went to the initial meeting with my predecessor and her that she thinks this man "has a twinkle in his eye" and whatever else nonsense she said. I then observed her behavior during the meeting and found it to be flirtatious. She even commented that he seemed put off by her smoking (it came out when the other woman apologized for being late because they went to smoke). So, I didn't really make an assumption, especially since my predecessor even poked fun at her for putting on fresh makeup for their meetings. Maybe she doesn't like that I don't think it's cute which could possibly be detected by my lack of interest in her crush. Not sure. And I am not sure if she made assumptions about me or just doesn't like my vibe.

But back to the solution. I will need to warm up as has been suggested and I do think you're right that I need to find a common ground. I just don't warm instantly and so this feels fake to me. I like to warm on my own terms and she frankly turned me ice cold towards her now. If I have to pretend like I'm not put off or that we are suddenly the bestest friends on the planet then that is going to be purely an act. I am going to try my HARDEST to put it in the back of my mind for the sake of my career and personal development. It can't be bad to attempt to do things a different way.

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I understand that she is probably ridiculous, the way she cakes on make up and flirts like a school girl. I am just trying to get you to recognize your challenge in all of this. You have the Square from Venus to Pluto and the Square from a stubborn fixed Mercury to Jupiter, which exaggerates and inflates things.


So please allow me to harp upon this subject just a bit longer.

I have Mercury in Scorpio and my daughter has hers in Taurus. So I fully understand the 'all or nothing' attitude that Fixed Mercuries fall into. We are asked to change something small and we tend to act defensive and blow it out of proportion. See your response below:


" I just don't warm instantly and so this feels fake to me. I like to warm on my own terms and she frankly turned me ice cold towards her now. If I have to pretend like I'm not put off or that we are suddenly the bestest friends on the planet then that is going to be purely an act. I am going to try my HARDEST to put it in the back of my mind for the sake of my career and personal development."


No one is expecting you to act like she is your bestest friend on the planet, or even that you were not put off by her. It was suggested that you meet her for coffee and try and warm up to her a bit.

I think you can do that. She is a woman in your field and is older and has been through stuff that might help you. Try and stir up some of your Piscean compassion and figure out WHY she tries to flirt. Maybe she is lonely because she put all her time into her career and now she feels desperate? Maybe her ex left her for a younger woman and she is depressed and in denial?

No one expects you to be fake. But maybe you can dig deeper and find some compassion or empathy for her situation?

Katydid is on to something here: How do your Merc placements match-up?

katydid said:

I understand that she is probably ridiculous, the way she cakes on make up and flirts like a school girl. I am just trying to get you to recognize your challenge in all of this. You have the Square from Venus to Pluto and the Square from a stubborn fixed Mercury to Jupiter, which exaggerates and inflates things.


So please allow me to harp upon this subject just a bit longer.

I have Mercury in Scorpio and my daughter has hers in Taurus. So I fully understand the 'all or nothing' attitude that Fixed Mercuries fall into. We are asked to change something small and we tend to act defensive and blow it out of proportion. See your response below:


" I just don't warm instantly and so this feels fake to me. I like to warm on my own terms and she frankly turned me ice cold towards her now. If I have to pretend like I'm not put off or that we are suddenly the bestest friends on the planet then that is going to be purely an act. I am going to try my HARDEST to put it in the back of my mind for the sake of my career and personal development."


No one is expecting you to act like she is your bestest friend on the planet, or even that you were not put off by her. It was suggested that you meet her for coffee and try and warm up to her a bit.

I think you can do that. She is a woman in your field and is older and has been through stuff that might help you. Try and stir up some of your Piscean compassion and figure out WHY she tries to flirt. Maybe she is lonely because she put all her time into her career and now she feels desperate? Maybe her ex left her for a younger woman and she is depressed and in denial?

No one expects you to be fake. But maybe you can dig deeper and find some compassion or empathy for her situation?

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I know I can be stubborn and fixate on things so you're right. I will just meet with her for coffee and work from there. I was talking to my friend at work (Aqua Sun, Cap Mercury, Sag Mars) and she kind of agreed with me about the whole thing feeling fake. She joked that it would probably be the most awkward coffee to observe! I guess I will have to become Pisces to relate to her because otherwise she is right and it will be super awkward haha!

I guess the flirting thing perplexes me also since she is married with three kids. But it could be a bad marriage for all I know. Also I've only been married a year so I can't comment on what it would be like. So I kind of get that part. I think the part that put me off about coming off as territorial is maybe I feel even insulted that my integrity would even be in question. I have no interest in losing my credibility due to being a flirt.

david starling said:

Katydid is on to something here: How do your Merc placements match-up?

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That is a good question. I don't even know her Sun sign. I'm sure I can somehow work it out and/or do some detective work. I tend to get along best with Aqua, Cap, Pisces and Scorpio Mercury (if I look at all of my friends' or family members charts they fall within those four signs). If I even think of the two women I like and get along with at work: Aqua Sun/Scorpio Moon/Cap Merc/Cap Venus/Sag Mars and Cap Sun/Cap Moon/Aqua Merc/Aqua Merc/Sag Mars. With both of those women I have Venus contacts. The first one we have a Venus conjunction by 2 degrees (she is a peer of mine) and the second is my new manager where we have her moon conjunct my Venus by 1 degree, her moon and Venus conjunct my Mercury and my moon trines her Venus and Mercury. So perhaps this has to do with my Venus and Moon more than my Mercury?

For the record, I did make an effort today and it went well. I got her to tell me about her kids and she gave me some insight into the "inner circle" as she called it. We joked about one of the MDs having personal space issues and I said "that sounds like me." She laughed and maybe it made her feel better to know that I just am that way and it's not personal against her. So I guess being warmer does work...as I suspected but didn't want to admit to myself.

rahu said:

I see it much simpler.
you have venus on the ascendant square to pluto . very often this position shows problem with other women. I think it is because this aspect has a sexual predatory vibration not usually associate with women., whether conscious of it or not.as such other women can be intimidated and feel threatened by this energy. so this is a reaction to your energies and not to your actions

rahu

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I will second this. I have Venus in H10 square Pluto in H1. I've had problems with women all my life.

Cappuccinoxpink said:

I will second this. I have Venus in H10 square Pluto in H1. I've had problems with women all my life.

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Do you feel you are just innocently being yourself with no negative thoughts towards them? This is my issue because I never have a problem with the other person until I am ambushed. It's never a direct attack (which I wouldn't think Pluto would be) so it just is sad and sours things for me that may be easier for others.

I have no idea how old you are but are there things you have done to improve this or have you just come to accept it, as sh!tty as it may be?

anjelik said:

Do you feel you are just innocently being yourself with no negative thoughts towards them? This is my issue because I never have a problem with the other person until I am ambushed. It's never a direct attack (which I wouldn't think Pluto would be) so it just is sad and sours things for me that may be easier for others.

I have no idea how old you are but are there things you have done to improve this or have you just come to accept it, as sh!tty as it may be?

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I am 24 and will be 25 this summer. I don't provoke women either. They are the ones who have a problem with me, then I have a problem with them. I've got a Leo Stellium of Venus, Mars and Jupiter all square my Pluto in Scorpio. So if they ambush me, they're going to get much more aggression back from me. Wether its competition at work, who looks beautiful, who spends more money or who has a nicer car/home, it never ends with these women. I've had female coworkers try to undermine my success many times. One was dating a manager, so she had an unfair advantage. (Aquarius) Another was unfairly promoted to manager (at a different job of mine), but soon lost some power after her boss was fired. (Virgo) At this same job, there was a girl who trained me when I first got hired. She never wore make up and had a lot of acne. I wear make up everyday no matter what. Then she started wearing make up everyday. Then she turned in to a complete biatch toward me. Then when she found out I liked this guy, she did to. Then she had the audacity to rub it in my face saying she got drunk with him and he made out with her. (She's an Aquarius) I had a girl friend who was in competition with me on copying my likes, my hair color and even my instagram photo poses. (Capricorn) I try not to be friends with women at all. And I avoid coworkers who are female of my generation as my Leo Stellium is also square their Pluto. Pluto feels threatened by me. Also, Scorpio Suns don't like me either for the same reason. I accept it, because I'd rather be real than have a coworker frenemy.

Her behavior makes some sense now to me. She is a contractor and her contract expires at the end of March. She essentially needs to justify her existence. So perhaps that is why she has been so territorial and also nit picky towards me. She needs to show that she adds value.