Any Substance To This??

Is there any substance to the notion that the first 4 signs are an 'earthy' or 'lower' domain, the second 4 a 'transitory' stage or domain, and the final 4 a more higher or 'spiritually attuned' domain? Anthroposophical astrology (astrosophy) introduced me to the astrological wheel based on Goethe's colour wheel, with the second half of the wheel being violet 'stretched' out over the last six signs, with Libra and Scorpio (with it's Eagle/Scorpion association being a transitional one between 'lower' and 'higher' worlds) being the second of the two halves of the middle 'transitional' domain, and I was wondering whether there's any indication of this in modern astrology. My chart is posted below as I painted it in that format. Violet to red is seen as an especially 'spiritual' grade of colour, so in that respect it makes sense. Views would be appreciated thanks.

I've never heard of this. Some astrologers believe in "evolution through the signs" starting with Aries and ending up with Pisces, but I don't think there's much evidence in its favour.

waybread said:

I've never heard of this. Some astrologers believe in "evolution through the signs" starting with Aries and ending up with Pisces, but I don't think there's much evidence in its favour.

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Well the theory is that the process of material involution progresses around the zodiac starting at aries 1 and ending at pisces 30.

And the process of spiritual evolution progresses backwards around the horoscope, starting at virgo 30 and ending at libra 1.

My studies have found this to be extremely valid

The representation the op brings up is interesting, ive heard multiple variations of this, but i would like to point out that the zodiac is a wheel and progress is ever spiraling upward... meaning that you dont start over where you began but rather at a new level. This implies that aries is not necessarily a sign that is lower than pisces.

Aries is the most primitive of signs, the first evolutionary step. The zodiacal wheel represents a progression from simplest to most complex. The universe itself works in this way and the zodiac reflects this reality.

Aries is Emergence. Pisces is Dissolution. The seed germinates, grows through the normal processes to finally produce seed that must "die" if it is to produce a new generation. No step in the process is without its dignity and value.

The emergent butterfly (Aries) flies from flower to flower, lays eggs, becomes a caterpillar and then as a pupa is dissolved into a formless jelly (Pisces), only to reappear as a beautiful butterfly.

A star coalesces from a gaseous, dusty cloud. It is "born" at ignition (Aries), follows its stellar evolution, and if it is large enough explodes and becomes a gaseous, dusty nebula (Pisces) where a new star will be born.

I would be very careful in using the word "spiritual". Most people, I think, separate the "spiritual" from the "material". They are not separate, not at all.

greybeard said:

....I would be very careful in using the word "spiritual". Most people, I think, separate the "spiritual" from the "material". They are not separate, not at all.

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Although I agree with you entirely, the perception of the material as separate from the spiritual results in materialistic thinking, which is very much the stage we appear to be at in human evolution - a necessary stage enabling the illusion of freedom - generally speaking. Although we are evolving spiritually with every minute we are alive, the refusal or inability to acknowledge that development results in earthbound thinking and action. Until I take up the mantle and endeavour to contribute consciously to my own evolution I am bound to dwell in the material blindly. As soon as I begin to take a hold of my development I can be said to be waking to the spiritual world, and affecting how I interact with my spiritual destiny. I think the idea that the wheel represents various stages isn't finite. As pointed out, I see it as more like a spiral, going up and down as well as round.

A seed, a butterfly and a star lead to new, or continuing, cycles, "sprialing upward".

I'm not quite sure I follow your thinking in the previous post.

Your original question was: Is there any substance to the notion that the first 4 signs are an 'earthy' or 'lower' domain, the second 4 a 'transitory' stage or domain, and the final 4 a more higher or 'spiritually attuned' domain?

I answered this question with: "The zodiacal wheel represents a progression from simplest to most complex. The universe itself works in this way and the zodiac reflects this reality.

I then provided three brief and simple examples of this progression, using "material" cycles. If, as I say, the material and the spiritual are inseparable, then it follows that the same progressive evolution applies equally to both.

This simple description does not imply a location at any specific point along the continuing cyclic spiral. The zodiac does not tell us at which level we are viewing the cyclic process, but only describes one revolution in the process itself.

greybeard said:

I then provided three brief and simple examples of this progression, using "material" examples. If, as I say, the material and the spiritual are inseparable, then it follows that the same progressive evolution applies equally to both.

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of course "material" examples will reflect a "material" progression. (Not that i think those examples necessarily do or do not accurately represent the progression of the zodiac..)

There is no denying that materiality is intertwined with spirituality. its interesting that you use the word "inseperable" because Material involution IS the process of SEPERATING from the divinity within.

This is the divine ALL being made manifest into materiality.

Spiritual evolution is the turn back towards the source, the divine creation.

the two cycles are inherently reverse in nature.

The whole thing is a "spiritual" process as it is an expression of the spirit.

I disagree with the two cycles being inherently reverse in nature.

I don't intend to engage in discussions of spirituality.

But isn't it possible that, rather than being a "turning back towards the source" the spiritual journey is an awakening of consciousness without the conflict inherent in two opposing motions?

You say --
Spiritual evolution is the turn back towards the source, the divine creation.

the two cycles are inherently reverse in nature.

The whole thing is a "spiritual" process as it is an expression of the spirit.

It seems to me that you are doing exactly what I warn against...separating the material from the spiritual.

Excellent discussion - enlightening too - tyvm

greybeard said:

I disagree with the two cycles being inherently reverse in nature.

I don't intend to engage in discussions of spirituality.

But isn't it possible that, rather than being a "turning back towards the source" the spiritual journey is an awakening of consciousness without the conflict inherent in two opposing motions?

You say --
Spiritual evolution is the turn back towards the source, the divine creation.

the two cycles are inherently reverse in nature.

The whole thing is a "spiritual" process as it is an expression of the spirit.

It seems to me that you are doing exactly what I warn against...separating the material from the spiritual.

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How am i seperating the two, greybeard?

Sure, it is quite possible that spiritual awakening happens without conflct. it is important to find a balance.

Universal law suggests that there are opposing forces at work. (Every action has an opposite and equal reaction...)

.... they can be blended together.

The Eternal truth and the relative truth exist simultaneously to suggest that the many ONE truth... is true. (Chew on that one.)

We are five fold beings. Two pentagrams flowing from the mc. One pointing up, one pointing down. One representing the spiritual progress of the native, the other representing the mundane progress. they can manifest distinctly from one another. they can manifest at the same time. they work together. They are reverse in nature. this is how the polarity of opposing signs works.

There is no denying that.

Its not a conflict though. its a natural ebb and flow.

Believe what suits you.

Is there any substance to the notion that the first 4 signs are an 'earthy' or 'lower' domain, the second 4 a 'transitory' stage or domain, and the final 4 a more higher or 'spiritually attuned' domain?

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I was taught that the first four signs were personal of nature, 5th to 8th sign were (personal with) social, and 9th-12th were (personal with) societal-humanity, that were spiral in terms of evolvement.
Note that each part begins with a fire sign....yet which works through a different nature....and Fire represents 'spirit'.
Aries; I exist 'I AM',
Leo; I exist 'I CREATE',
Sagittarius; I exist 'I TRANSCEND'.

So I always wonder what those who talk of 'spiritual' are actually implying. Is the Spirit of Taurus or Spirit of Cancer 'less spiritual' in some way? If so, in what way?

I agree with Greybeard (which doesn't happen often) that Aries is a primitive sign. It signifies ' In the beginning'. The beginning of what? Of a process of interaction in a personal, social, humane creative, transcending existence?
If evolvement works in a spiral form (hopefully going upwards!), there will come a time when one reaches Aries a second, third, fourth, etc. time; maybe in one lifetime, maybe through hundreds of them. The individual will experience the 'I AM at the beginning of' at a more conscious level of existence than, yet as a result of, all which went before, even though (s)he knows nothing of how THAT FOLLOWING existence will develop.

A 'highly developed' Gemini may do more than a 'low developed' Aquarian in terms of evolvement of Spirit.

But that's just a material natal Sun in Taurus progressed through Gemini, Cancer and soon into Leo, from 9th, 10th and 11th houses, expressing a personal viewpoint.