Too nice? Where is it in the chart?

This is probably changing for me. But all my life I have been "too nice" - my dad say I am a "takee" - people take from me and take advantage of it and I get shafted. (this is probably true).

I am trying to be more of a tough cookie and not let this happen. Like today, I was trying to sell something of mine and I offer this lady a super cheap price (75% less of what it was worth- vintage items) and she STILL wanted another bargain, even though I gave her the price up front. (it was already almost free!). Ugh, I got so mad and I put my foot down - no way. Because I am getting to that point in my life where I am sick of this sort of thing happening to me. But WHY do I feel guilty about it? Like I should have given it away or something? I hate feeling like people will not like me or that I am a meanie.

What aspect is responsible for this in someone personality?

I know some people are as tough as nails - maybe I am just not good at business (probably true) and I dont' have a thick skin when it comes to it. But do other see things in someone that makes them think they can take advantage of them?

Chiron in Aries/4th opposite Uranus/Jupiter (mid-point) in Libra/10th, in trine + sextile to Moon in Sagittarius/1st and all aspecting MC ?


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Being a Sun-Virgoan probably doesn't help all that much either. Virgo's natural house is the 6th, the house of service to others.

EJ53 said:

Chiron in Aries/4th opposite Uranus/Jupiter (mid-point) in Libra/10th, in trine + sextile to Moon in Sagittarius/1st and all aspecting MC ?


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Thanks.
Ok, this sentence is sort of run on so I am not sure I am getting it. I am new at aspects. Are these all separate?

Chiron in Aries in the 4th House. ( I see this).

Opposite (meaning opposite the 4th House?) Uranus AND Jupiter in Libra (Although uranus is my 10th and Jupiter in my 11th). On my chart it looks like 10th house is opposite the 4th, so not clear about the Jupiter since it is not in my 10th house.

The trine and sextile to the Moon in Sagittarius in my 1st House. I see that I have two sextiles for Moon to both Uranus and Jupiter. But the only trine I see in my Moon column to my Chiron.

I am not sure what the all aspecting MC means.

Is that what you meant? I am new at aspects so the way you wrote the sentence is confusing plus you put a question mark at the end.

Inconjunct said:

Being a Sun-Virgoan probably doesn't help all that much either. Virgo's natural house is the 6th, the house of service to others.

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So does Virgo = "step all over me".

I am not like that in other areas. In romance, I don't let that happen. Treat me bad and you are out the door. I don't stand for wishy-washy there.

It is just mostly when it comes to things like giving - gifts, presents, money (I give too much materialistic-wise I think and it is never returned in kind - I think I don't want to look like a cheapskate). Maybe because I feel like in my mind I will not be happy with myself unless I feel I am doing it right?

I know I am very service-orientated and it doesn't usually bother me in that way. But it seems like money wise, people always try to give me the shaft. I must be the only honest person left on the planet some days. It bothers me that I feel guilty about it. Ugh, I wanna change signs.

I thought more about Neptune on the ascendant, conjunct (widley?) moon... Maybe mixed with the Virgo sun also...?

Explaining my post #2

(Chiron in Aries/4th)...is opposing...(the Jupiter/Uranus mid-point in Libra/10th)...with Chiron trining, and the mid-point of Jupiter/Uranus sextiling (the Moon in Sagittarius/4th)...whilst the (MC) is making difficult aspects to Chiron, Moon and the Jupiter/Uranus mid-point.

...Opposite (meaning opposite the 4th House?) Uranus AND Jupiter in Libra (Although uranus is my 10th and Jupiter in my 11th). On my chart it looks like 10th house is opposite the 4th, so not clear about the Jupiter since it is not in my 10th house.

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Opposite (meaning opposing Chiron)....Uranus at 3.48 degrees; Jupiter at 11.38 degrees; Jupiter/Uranus mid-point at 7.43 degree (Libra)...11th house cusp at 8.23 Libra, so Jupiter/Uranus mid-point (at 7.43 Libra) is in 10th house.

...The trine and sextile to the Moon in Sagittarius in my 1st House. I see that I have two sextiles for Moon to both Uranus and Jupiter. But the only trine I see in my Moon column to my Chiron.

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Moon is trine Chiron...and sextile the mid-point of Jupiter/Uranus.

...I am not sure what the all aspecting MC means.

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MC is at 6.58 degrees of Virgo...qcx Chiron : semi-sextile Jupiter/Uranus mid-point : square Moon.

...I am new at aspects so the way you wrote the sentence is confusing plus you put a question mark at the end.

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Sorry, QF......(using the mid-point also adds to the confusion)...The question mark was a way of asking if you agreed with my suggestion that this Chiron/Moon/Jupiter/Uranus/MC configuration might result in you being perceived as "too nice".

...Hopefully, that suggestion is clearer now.

Saturn conjunct Mercury in Libra in the 11th - too scared to speak your mind sometimes? Afraid to rock the boat in relationships (Libra)? Hard time making friends because of this (11th)?

Comments on comments

LittleMiss said:

I thought more about Neptune on the ascendant...

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I wondered about Neptune on Asc too...particularly as they are only 3 degrees apart, which (imo) makes Neptune the ruler of the chart...

However, Neptune/Mars/Venus/Sun/Pluto form a "shield" configuration...[One trine and one sextile, connected by two semi-sextiles]...which is more likely to work as a defensive mechanism that keeps others at a distance, rather than inviting them to "take advantage" in any way.

So...yes, Neptune on Asc=Seen by others as "nice"......but the shield figure may be responsible for the "Ugh, I got so mad and I put my foot down - no way" reaction to the attempt by another to take advantage.

Inconjunct said:

Being a Sun-Virgoan probably doesn't help all that much either. Virgo's natural house is the 6th, the house of service to others.

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Having "service-orientated" Virgo on the MC probably doesn't help much either...as that colours how QF both "sees and is seen by" people encountered in the outside world.

weirdconjunctions said:

Saturn conjunct Mercury in Libra in the 11th - too scared to speak your mind sometimes? Afraid to rock the boat in relationships (Libra)? Hard time making friends because of this (11th)?

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Is this Jupiter conjunct Mercury, WC?......[Still a valid comment though, as it indicates a reluctance to rock the boat in relationships because of "excessive fair-mindedness"]

I agree about Neptune on the AC - I've found the AC can represent not only how others see us, but how we feel we should project ourselves. Also Saturn (planet of obligation) in the 6th house of service. Both of these probably contribute to the feeling of "should" - and the 6th definitely relates to guilt.
Sun/Saturn/MC all relate to the Father (Saturn in the 6th, Aspects to the MC, and Sun in the 10th aspecting Neptune). I notice you quoted what you were told as a child. Psychologically, children seek to be what is expected of them - even if it's not good. A bit of it could come from being told "you're a takee" rather than being told "come on, put your foot down, you're tougher than that"
Another factor is Mars in the 2nd house of money - in generous Sagittarius. This can create a quick reaction to give. Mars is in trine to Venus, who happens to be in your 9th - the traditional house of loss from business. I think this may be an important factor

hate feeling like people will not like me

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Venus represents the desire to be liked, and how we go about being liked. This trine can give the feeling that monetary generosity (Sag Mars in 2nd), funded by loss in business can is he path to kind feelings toward you (Venus in the 9th).

I thought Id post before reading the other posts so I appologise if I repeat. With Nept conjunct Asc and the Moon in the 1st hse along with the Scorp Asc can indicate a psychic ability. So maybe you are absorbing others thoughts and feelings as your own. I also noticed your 6th hse Saturn which could give you a responsibility to serve and with your Virgo ruled MC your public reputation maybe one connected to providing a service. So you may feel an innate need to provide in a practical way (possibly equating materially) yet with your very empathic ability, reconciling business practice with the no boundaries ethereal qualities of psychic/sensitivities etc may be whats causing your conflict

Re: Explaining my post #2

EJ53 said:

The underlying thinking behind my suggestion was :-​

1. In Aries 4th, the Chiron wound can be "low self-esteem".​

2. Jupiter/Uranus mid-point in Libra/10th can produce an "exceptionally fair" outlook.​

3. Moon in Sagittarius/1st can be "kindness personified".​

4. Because of the aspects to the MC, these personality traits are seen clearly by everyone you encounter in the "outside world".​

5. Because the MC aspects are "hard", there will be misunderstandings in those encounters......as others will judge you by their own (most likely lower) standards of fairness......[Thus, you will always offer to sell your items for a fair price...but others will usually assume you have adopted the "standard practice" of inflating the asking price, for the seller to knock down to a fair price].​

EJ​

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Thanks EJ for explaining that further.

The Chiron thing: I had looked up a description about Chiron in Aries and here is what it says:

"Chiron is associated with the emotional wounds we receive early on in our lives. The sign Chiron is in will dominate but the house placing will show in which area the personality is motivated and into which they will put their efforts. In the fourth house, it may indicate an insecure early family life, so much so that feelings of abandonment or being the 'black sheep' persist. A lack of self- confidence may make you think doing anything with your life is a waste of time. You probably have a lot of time for other people and have great empathy. Try to bring out the unique you by using this feeling of being 'different'. "

The "black sheep" comment is RIGHT ON. I am the blackest of the black sheep you can get in my family. I think even in the outside world, outside of my family, I am a black sheep in the world. With my family, even though they don't say it, they don't approve of my choices of beliefs in life because they are not like theirs. Funny as though even though I have accomplished alot (compared to the rest of my family) still nothing I do is good enough (in their eyes) because it wasn't the way they wanted me to turn out. Not that I care really but the that "doing anything with your life is a waste of time" thing is still kind of there because I grew up with it.

weirdconjunctions said:

Saturn conjunct Mercury in Libra in the 11th - too scared to speak your mind sometimes? Afraid to rock the boat in relationships (Libra)? Hard time making friends because of this (11th)?

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Nope. Actually Mercury in Libra is more a endless talker than a Virgo. If warranted, I say EXACTLY what is on my mind. I rarely sugar coat anything. But when dealing with strangers and when it comes to money, I guess maybe you could say that yeah I do that a bit. I think maybe I think I don't deserve certain things ie. monetary reward for my work etc.

Hard time making friends? Sometimes but I thought that was more because of my Scorpio Rising - some people tend to stay away from me. Personality-wise, once people get to know me, I don't have any problems - but you know some people just don't hit it off with each other. So, I don't always see that as being a problem with me and my chart but it could be the other person too.

Pagan Astrologer said:

I agree about Neptune on the AC - I've found the AC can represent not only how others see us, but how we feel we should project ourselves. Also Saturn (planet of obligation) in the 6th house of service. Both of these probably contribute to the feeling of "should" - and the 6th definitely relates to guilt.
Sun/Saturn/MC all relate to the Father (Saturn in the 6th, Aspects to the MC, and Sun in the 10th aspecting Neptune). I notice you quoted what you were told as a child. Psychologically, children seek to be what is expected of them - even if it's not good. A bit of it could come from being told "you're a takee" rather than being told "come on, put your foot down, you're tougher than that"
Another factor is Mars in the 2nd house of money - in generous Sagittarius. This can create a quick reaction to give. Mars is in trine to Venus, who happens to be in your 9th - the traditional house of loss from business. I think this may be an important factor Venus represents the desire to be liked, and how we go about being liked. This trine can give the feeling that monetary generosity (Sag Mars in 2nd), funded by loss in business can is he path to kind feelings toward you (Venus in the 9th).

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Thanks Pagan, this is a great analysis! Actually, my dad just told me this recently (hehe) not when I was a kid (didn't have my own money than) but I never really saw myself this way. It just seems part of my natural personality to be "nice" in that arena. And I didn't know that about the Sag in the 2nd, hmmm, interesting. For example, when it comes to time to buy presents for people, I tend to sometimes go a bit overboard (not super expensive or anything, I can't afford that but I will often buy more than one thing because one thing doesn't seem like enough). I am wondering if this is because my parents always bought us many things for Xmas when I was a kid.

If I go to a potluck or dinner, I normally bring more than one dish (sometimes because I can't decide on one or the other) because I am never sure if my one dish will be enough. I go overboard! So yes, your Sagittarius analysis of me would be correct! Thanks!

And yes, I feel guilty about ALOT of things! (stupid 6th house!) I guess I grew up with the idea that unless you have worked your fingers to the bone, have money in the banks, have paid off all your bills and cleaned the entire house, you are not allowed to enjoy life. And even than, you may have still not earned it. So needless to say, even when I do fun, enjoyable things now, I still don't often always completely enjoy them because I feel guilty about it (unless I feel I have earned it as I described above) and all of the things I haven't completed yet, that are still on my mind, will make me feel irressponsible and guilty for going out and doing something enjoyable when I think I should be doing something else. Make sense?

For the most part, I don't think I completely believe that theory (or I try to retrain myself not too because I know there is more to life than work) - but it was the one I grew up with - so even though I try (and sometimes succeed) in not letting it 'get to me', it is still there in the back of head and pops up and makes me feel quilty for reaping rewards or enjoying things.

And the worrying too, aside from being a Virgo thing, definatley comes from my family - esp. my dad. Worry-wart extradonaire. Everything in life is to be fear and don't take any chances that you don't really need to take. (like if it is raining outside don't drive in it unless it is an emergency - probably why I do not like driving in bad weather to this day - that and accidents and sliding! )

A few people commented on the Neptune Ascendent.
Here is one of the description I have for mine (although I am not quite sure if mine is in the 10 degree mark because I am still not clear on which number is the correct degree! is it 23 or 33 degrees for my ascendent?)

"You might express yourself artistically, and come across as gentle, sensitive, and dreamy, especially if Neptune is close to the Ascendant (within 10 degrees). You are extremely sensitive to your environment. Others tend to see whatever they want to see in you, and you thus can come across very differently to different people. You might tend to encourage this, even without knowing. Your appearance and mannerisms tend to be chameleon-like. You are a peace-loving person. While you don't come on strong, you can be subtly alluring and intriguing. Others can be drawn to you and feel that you understand them. You can be moody and your first reaction to problems might be to escape or to feel sorry for yourself, or helpless. You may not feel a strong sense of identity and struggle with your own impressionability. Like a sponge, you absorb the moods of others. Your imagination is powerful. You have an easygoing manner - a "what will be, will be" approach to the world."
I don't necessary agree with all of this. I don't run from most problems. But I think I am sensitive to my environment. I thought maybe that was my Moon doing that. And well, moody - I don't know. I mean, are all girls moody?

Aquachime said:

I thought Id post before reading the other posts so I appologise if I repeat. With Nept conjunct Asc and the Moon in the 1st hse along with the Scorp Asc can indicate a psychic ability. So maybe you are absorbing others thoughts and feelings as your own. I also noticed your 6th hse Saturn which could give you a responsibility to serve and with your Virgo ruled MC your public reputation maybe one connected to providing a service. So you may feel an innate need to provide in a practical way (possibly equating materially) yet with your very empathic ability, reconciling business practice with the no boundaries ethereal qualities of psychic/sensitivities etc may be whats causing your conflict

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Thanks Aquachime!

I DO feel I have a sixth sense of sorts. I can sense things about people, even ones I just met. And several of the descriptions I have read about me (I think it is the Neptune in Scorpio) said I "absorb the moods of people around me". I feel this is true most of the time. I took a test once to see if I am psychic or have a sixth sense and I came up positive for the sixth sense. But yes, I have always felt I size someone up pretty quick just by 'vibes', moods or feeling I get from them - even someone I hardly know.

And yes, your last sentence-- very good! I actually do not identify well (even if I try too) that cold, impersonal dry 'business' part of life - I call it crackly and stiff, personally, ugh. I can understand "business" itself and realize it is important, but I don't really like it for myself. I honestly don't understand how people do it? The whole thing goes against my personality. I have a hard time leaving my emotions or personality out of things like that - I guess I can't shapeshift into emotionless, cardboard.

Thanks so much for your analysis! With that last sentence, you really helped me see something about me that I always questioned - not just for my original post but for other things I am struggling to make decisions with in my life as well (mostly career - which, as we know, has that stale 'businessy' stuff in it). Why do I not like turning into a hard-stiff person when 'business' stuff comes around? And I think you gave me the answer.

I don't think I should be in a career where I would be required to be all 'businessy' and have to stifle my personality while doing it. I already know I hate that - I just never knew why. Needless to say to do not chime with that saying "It is not personal, it is business." Sorry it is ALWAYS personal when you are dealing with living things. I am not a piece of cardboard

queenfluff, you have received a lot of insightful replies, and I have skimmed through them, and had a look at your chart.

I'm inclined to look at 3 things - although in truth, the behaviour you describe is one of those things which comes from a lifetime of accumulated responses to a lot of different stimuli.

1. The first thing I noted was Neptune on your Asc - part of which describes a desire to be `all things to everybody', and this can have an outcome in self-denying behaviour.
2. Secondly, Moon-Saturn inconjunct.............. I find this to be a text-book guilt-inducing placement, where one's instinctual response (i.e. the Moon) is stymied by Saturnian responsibility towards others (Saturn in the 6th of service.)
3. Chiron trine Moon is a healing placement to do with working on the wounds of boundary invasion by others - generally mother, but it can be any influential person from early life. I have found that identification of this `allowing' of others to step over your boundaries is a necessary step in the process of establishing clearer personal boundaries. i.e. as you become clearer about this, others will respect your boundaries without you having to work hard at figuring out where your boundaries need to be. [Chiron-Moon aspects are all generally about personal boundary setting.]

When I think "too nice" I immediately think Libra energy. You have your Mercury there with Jupiter conjunct it. Jupiter is easy-going and expands whatever it touches--in Libra it expands "nice".

And the Libra planets are in the 11th house of other people. You're all about going with the flow (Jupiter--and further emphasized with your Sag planets!), seeing the broader picture; with an expansive (social) outlook and optimistic outlook (so maybe seeing the best in people to a fault).

Neptune so close to the Ascendant, as mentioned, makes you a soft touch as well. And also people will project onto you what they choose to see.

With Venus in Leo (generous) square Neptune, you're apt to give the shirt off your back, have issues with boundaries (emphasized with your angular Neptune) and also have a tendency not to see things (money matters or relationships) clearly.

Venus trine Mars adds to social graces and being "pleasing" to others, truly without even trying--you seem "nice".

Then combine all that with Sun in Virgo (the servant, helper, placement) and Pluto right there to fuel this identity--you are focused on being a helper, with a social identity of "niceness" in how you think, when dealing with groups of people.

And with Neptune on the Ascendant (it's angular--so emphasized--it's very strong!) you may not always feel sure of yourself. You're sensitive to others energies (mentioned previously). So, you may not feel secure in your identity or the image you project. I'm thinking Pluto with your Sun counteracts that a bit though, maybe (?).

You are definitely here to learn to own your own power (Pluto/Sun). Keep putting that foot down!

R4VEN said:

queenfluff, you have received a lot of insightful replies, and I have skimmed through them, and had a look at your chart.

I'm inclined to look at 3 things - although in truth, the behaviour you describe is one of those things which comes from a lifetime of accumulated responses to a lot of different stimuli.

1. The first thing I noted was Neptune on your Asc - part of which describes a desire to be `all things to everybody', and this can have an outcome in self-denying behaviour.
2. Secondly, Moon-Saturn inconjunct.............. I find this to be a text-book guilt-inducing placement, where one's instinctual response (i.e. the Moon) is stymied by Saturnian responsibility towards others (Saturn in the 6th of service.)
3. Chiron trine Moon is a healing placement to do with working on the wounds of boundary invasion by others - generally mother, but it can be any influential person from early life. I have found that identification of this `allowing' of others to step over your boundaries is a necessary step in the process of establishing clearer personal boundaries. i.e. as you become clearer about this, others will respect your boundaries without you having to work hard at figuring out where your boundaries need to be. [Chiron-Moon aspects are all generally about personal boundary setting.]

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Hi Raven!

Yes, I have some awesome responses. This is very helpful to know all of this!

1. Yes, I think I do do this. I sacrfice pleasing myself in order to please others first. Even if there is no one else to please, I often deny pleasing myself.

3. By this do you mean, that mother wants to poke her nose in my life and it bothers me? Than yes! And I did set that boundary quiet a while ago and she knows not to mention certain things anymore I think. But it is sort of a hidden thing we don't talk about anymore. My mom, in particular, is not happy that I didn't live myself the way she wanted me too. In fact, I am almost everything opposite and I know she doesn't like it and she used to be more nosey about it. Being bossy and giving her opinions of what she thinks is "wrong" with my life because it wasn't want she thought should do or be.

Six said:

When I think "too nice" I immediately think Libra energy. You have your Mercury there with Jupiter conjunct it. Jupiter is easy-going and expands whatever it touches--in Libra it expands "nice".

And the Libra planets are in the 11th house of other people. You're all about going with the flow (Jupiter--and further emphasized with your Sag planets!), seeing the broader picture; with an expansive (social) outlook and optimistic outlook (so maybe seeing the best in people to a fault).

Neptune so close to the Ascendant, as mentioned, makes you a soft touch as well. And also people will project onto you what they choose to see.

With Venus in Leo (generous) square Neptune, you're apt to give the shirt off your back, have issues with boundaries (emphasized with your angular Neptune) and also have a tendency not to see things (money matters or relationships) clearly.

Venus trine Mars adds to social graces and being "pleasing" to others, truly without even trying--you seem "nice".

Then combine all that with Sun in Virgo (the servant, helper, placement) and Pluto right there to fuel this identity--you are focused on being a helper, with a social identity of "niceness" in how you think, when dealing with groups of people.

And with Neptune on the Ascendant (it's angular--so emphasized--it's very strong!) you may not always feel sure of yourself. You're sensitive to others energies (mentioned previously). So, you may not feel secure in your identity or the image you project. I'm thinking Pluto with your Sun counteracts that a bit though, maybe (?).

You are definitely here to learn to own your own power (Pluto/Sun). Keep putting that foot down!

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Thanks Six, I think you are correct with the Mercury in Libra. I have a description of Mercury in Libra that says
"Mercury in Libra hates to be thought of as the bad guy (or gal), and can end up trying to make too many people happy. "

I don't know if I necessary agree that all Libra people (meaning Sun in Libra) are all nice people ( last two exs were Libra suns and they were not overly nice or giving people - not compared to me anyhow). But I agree with all your analysis of the Mercury in Libra.

For the Neptune/Asc, one thing I know I feel most of the time that tends to be a problem for me (well, I see it as one) is that I am always thinking that other people don't like me. I am never sure like if I make a new friend or meet someone new, I am (obviously) very nice, pleasant and friendly (with my Mercury in Libra in the House of Friends) but I can't help from thinking afterwards - do they like me or do they think I was crazy girl? Are they looking at the lines on my face? do I seem self-conscious? I don't THINK I come off this way (well, I am kind of goofy) but I am never sure if the other person sees it. I think that might be the Scorpio Asc thing - you know, some people hate Scorpio Asc and some people love them. Maybe I can't feel what the other person might be thinking about me because I give off a confusing vibe that I am not aware of because of the Scorpio Asc? I know a lot of other Scorpio Ascs complain about that.

What is this about me being here own my own power with the Pluto/Sun? That sounds interesting! Could you explain where exactly that comes into play on my chart?

When I read some descriptions about my aspects etc. I see some of them mentioning power - I guess I am aware I have power (I think am becoming more aware of this as I am getting older - I didn't feel this when I was younger. I was super timid and shy!) but I am often hestitate to use it or not sure when or where. I guess that makes sense as you say I am here to learn how to do that. So, that would mean I am meant to have power, and that I DO have so I should not feel afraid to use it because that is what I am supposed do! Is that right?