Can house position outweight lack of aspect?

chappygirl

Well-known member
hello

I have had a chart where moon and signficator were void yet significator was in 1st (not on ASC) and the answer ended up being a yes.

So now I wonder if answer could be yes for this "will I be fluent in this foreign language" chart as per the house position:

Moon: void, ruled by 3rd ruler Saturn
1st, Mars: void, in 9th combut 9th ruler
9th, Sun: very strong in domicile in 9th
3rd, Saturn : retrograde but in 1st (i am learning it again after i stopped 2 years ago).
Mercury, as general language significator: void, but in domicile and exalted in 9th conjunct MC.

As per aspect, its a NO answer.

As per house position, what would you say?
 

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IleneK

Premium Member
What if fluency in another language was higher learning of the 9th instead of communication/language of the 3rd?
Then it would be Moon to Mars, which does apply [by opposition!] to aspect Mars and Moon is in the 3rd house. No reception to speak of.

Was it difficult to accomplish fluency in the language for you?
 

chappygirl

Well-known member
Hi Ilenek,

What if fluency in another language was higher learning of the 9th instead of communication/language of the 3rd?
I did use Sun as 9th ruler as well :smile:

Then it would be Moon to Mars
Moon is in the 3rd house
in whole sign, yes.

Moon does apply [by opposition!] to aspect Mars
I first started 20 years ago, then changed my master and I stopped for some years. I tried a few times to learn it but either time was lacking or i just stopped; maybe that is what explains the"opposition"?

Was it difficult to accomplish fluency in the language for you?
I wonder if I will master this one to a satisfactory level?

Moon/Mars opposition? why cant I see it in the grid aspect?
 
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IleneK

Premium Member
Hi Ilenek,

I did use Sun as 9th ruler as well :smile:

in whole sign, yes.

I first started 20 years ago, then changed my master and I stopped for some years. I tried a few times to learn it but either time was lacking or i just stopped; maybe that is what explains the"opposition"?

I wonder if I will master this one to a satisfactory level?

Moon/Mars opposition? why cant I see it in the grid aspect?

I think it may be challenging with no reception [using Moon, anyway], And with Moon meeting Mars by opposition it may point to your succeeding only to find that it really didn't matter...?

The applying opposition may not show in the grid perhaps because the orb is greater than what the software you are using allows? But you can see it if you look at the chart.
 

IleneK

Premium Member
PS Moon is in the 3rd house according to the house system you employed. It is in the 4th, in AQ, using whole sign. It is also not void.
I look at the chart with whole sign and then also with the house system chosen by OP.
 

chappygirl

Well-known member
I think it may be challenging with no reception [using Moon, anyway]
I share your opinion; it seems difficult.
with Moon meeting Mars by opposition it may point to your succeeding only to find that it really didn't matter...?
maybe because I will stop again before I reach fluency lol.
it was more of a personal challenge of trying to finish what I have first started 20 years ago :).
 

obsidianmineral

Well-known member
hello

I have had a chart where moon and signficator were void yet significator was in 1st (not on ASC) and the answer ended up being a yes.

So now I wonder if answer could be yes for this "will I be fluent in this foreign language" chart as per the house position:

Moon: void, ruled by 3rd ruler Saturn
1st, Mars: void, in 9th combut 9th ruler
9th, Sun: very strong in domicile in 9th
3rd, Saturn : retrograde but in 1st (i am learning it again after i stopped 2 years ago).
Mercury, as general language significator: void, but in domicile and exalted in 9th conjunct MC.

As per aspect, its a NO answer.

As per house position, what would you say?

Theoretically speaking, a planet would give different results based on what house it's in. If the significator were in the 1st house in a chart where the thing demanded is language and studies I'd say yes, because the significator would be trining the 9th house, sextiling the 3rd, and sextiling the 11th.

In your question though, I believe that you've got the potential to be fluent in the language! Even though Saturn is in the 1st, it's still receiving a benefic aspect from Jupiter which helps things. Keep also in mind that Mars isn't debilitated by being close to the Sun, since it's even hotter and drier than the it (in astrology only, obviously). I think the only risk here is you changing you not having enough confidence.

Saturn retrograde in the 1st is probably your biggest setback, indicating that what you're trying has been delayed and that you're seeking to get what you demand as a responsibility rather than pure love for it. Still, you've got an aspect from Jupiter in its house of joy.

The only possible problem is a lack of discipline and motivation. However, you've definitely got the potential. With the North Node, a Virgo Mercury, significator and Sun in the 9th, you shouldn't have much problems. So my personal advice is for you to rethink if you really want to learn the language, and if you do, then work slowly towards your goal. You've got to correct the energy of Saturn; try setting smaller goals and slowly creating habits.
 

chappygirl

Well-known member
Hi OM!

Even though Saturn is in the 1st
would you consider saturn as a significator since it rules the 3rd?

Mars isn't debilitated by being close to the Sun
I didnt see Mars as being debilitated since Sun is the quesited significator; I saw it as 2 significators being conjunct yet separating. Dont you?

I think the only risk here is you changing you not having enough confidence.
Saturn retrograde in the 1st is probably your biggest setback, indicating that what you're trying has been delayed and that you're seeking to get what you demand as a responsibility rather than pure love for it.
Spot on! I have been frustrated by not being able to learn it while I was living abroad, because I ended up living with people who would refuse to speak their native language and "force" me to speak english all the time, so I missed my goal.
Before that, I stopped my studies because I had to follow my ex. So now I want to go back to what I have given up so that is a yes to:
my personal advice is for you to rethink if you really want to learn the language

The only possible problem is a lack of discipline and motivation.
true, studying at home isnt easy.

then work slowly towards your goal. You've got to correct the energy of Saturn; try setting smaller goals and slowly creating habits.
Thanks
Would you say that the chart says that I could be fluent but I wont because I wont manage to take it slowly?
 
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obsidianmineral

Well-known member
would you consider saturn as a significator since it rules the 3rd?

I deemed Saturn to be a significator since it's in the 1st house. Anything in the 1st house is important, since it aspects every other house except the 8th and 6th. Edit: I mean, it represents the querent and its relationship to these other houses, hence its importance.

I didnt see Mars as being debilitated since Sun is the quesited significator; I saw it as 2 significators being conjunct yet separating. Dont you?

I didn't consider Mars to be debilitated by the conjunction to the Sun because, traditionally speaking, the Sun weakens planets near it due to its massive light, dryness and warmth. However, Mars is the hottest and driest, therefore it only strengthens the planet even more.

Thanks
Would you say that the chart says that I could be fluent but I wont because I wont manage to take it slowly?

I believe that is the only risk here. Since the only factor in the chart that is bad is Saturn, try correcting its flaws and try diligently following what Saturn naturally demands. Saturn is mean to be nice, he wants you to learn your limits and learn what true discipline is so you can learn to be independent, self-sufficient, mature, strong, and generally an expert in everything you do. So, just as Saturn symbolically is the most powerful planet, try to think that if you follow his rules and master his lessons you will be an expert for as long as you live. That is why my advice is to not judge everything on a broad perspective and out of pure impulse (like a retrograde Saturn in Sagittarius would do). The only way to reach a goal is to create discipline. Motivation eventually runs out, while habits make you do the same actions over and over without getting really tired. Try managing your motivation; when you don't feel too motivated then just study the language for a bit; when you do, then try to do a fair amount and if you really feel like it's not going to burn you out later, study a lot. Also, Saturn only teaches you these things because you've got to learn them, not because it only happens to you. It's like a homeless guy that doesn't know where to get his food; he has to learn that or else he'll die.
 
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moonwitch

Active member
Hi chappygirl:

Here's Bonatti's Table of Perfection from Skyscript:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/perfection.html


If you chose the 3rd house ruler, Saturn, as the significator then it is in the ASC, the easiest form of perfection.

If you chose the 9th house ruler, Sun, as the significator, it is conjunct Mars, your significator, in the 9th house of higher learning.

Cheers,

moonwitch
 
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chappygirl

Well-known member
Hi chappygirl:

If you chose the 9th house ruler, Sun, as the significator, it is conjunct Mars, your significator, in the 9th house of higher learning.

thanks MW

However Sun is separating from Mars by 4 degrees already, do you still regard it?

Since the chart, I have put the language aside, again, to care for my paperwork instead.. hopefully I will be able to focus later on this language... :biggrin:

If you chose the 3rd house ruler, Saturn, as the significator then it is in the ASC, the easiest form of perfection.

I have had a chart where saturn retrograde was also a 3rd ruler and in the 1st. My question was regarding a court case "will i win?". I didnt win because the matter didnt even go before a judge because of paperwork issues: saturn as 3rd house ruler in my 1st was pointing to that.

Here, I wonder if retrograde saturn is telling me to care for my paperwork before caring for something else? lol I do have a lot of paperwork to handle lately ...:annoyed:
I just hope the opposition is about me stopping but coming back to my studies later, once paperwork issues are carefully handled.

I guess this echoes what OMineral mentionned: discipline, put things in order first?
 
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