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Unread 03-02-2007, 04:20 PM
SolarSiren SolarSiren is offline
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Bullying, Cruelty, & Sexual Deviance in Charts?

Time of birth is guessed...This person is 40's/Male.(And said something recently that
totally changed my opinion of them from love to hate.)
It was very out of the blue & cruel...But running it by mutual aquaintances,
they give the old, "I told ya so!" response.
I guess I didn't see it with my Pisces Moon conj. his Saturn.

Then the stories came, apparently he's got some very odd sexual
proclivities, is antisocial, unable to have any adult relationships,
wicked tongue, moody.
In fairness, Good qualities are - charitable, not lazy(workaholic), intelligent,
outwardly modest, can be very charming. Earth Grand Trine?

Badly afflicted Moon to blame?

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Unread 03-02-2007, 04:29 PM
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wintersprite1 wintersprite1 is offline
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Re: Bullying, Cruelty, & Sexual Deviance in Charts?

Although I wouldn't dare say it is the case with other charts, the indicator of his "bad emotional" aspects will probably be found with Luminaries. In this chart, there is a T-square happening with Neptune opposed Jupiter, both squaring the Moon directly. Again, I would stress, this maybe the case with this individual.... others with simular energies, could choose to work on the challenge presented instead of acting out with the course of least resistance.

“But even when the moon looks like its's actually never changing shape. Don't ever forget that.”
― Ai Yazawa

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Unread 03-02-2007, 05:24 PM
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Re: Bullying, Cruelty, & Sexual Deviance in Charts?

Sexual deviance is more associated with Venus and Pluto harsh aspects.
Power and love become twisted.

This one has mars square Venus and Mercury.

There are more than one factor. Saturn rising people have a gloomy outlook at times, but as stated energies can be used differently by different people.
A leo moon in sixth would have a difficult time in expression of what they want or need.

I would check into the pluto oppose Chiron. Power and wounds, not supportive of each other.
Only two water planets,
One fire, Leo moon again. Hard to express the need for attention or being the center.
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Unread 03-02-2007, 06:01 PM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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Re: Bullying, Cruelty, & Sexual Deviance in Charts?

Might have more to do with the synastry between you. This man's Saturn on your moon probably reflects how harsh and cold he has come across to your sensitive Pisces Moon.

Last edited by Shining Ray; 03-02-2007 at 07:46 PM.
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Unread 03-02-2007, 06:50 PM
SolarSiren SolarSiren is offline
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Re: Bullying, Cruelty, & Sexual Deviance in Charts?

Whats funny is...My other friend (who bully guy's ex dated),
has an active Chiron as well...Its conj his ASC/Sun, opposite Pluto too.

BUT he's emotionally the opposite of this dude....He's in therapy, trying hard to "fix his head", idolizes women(Moon conj. Nep), & things look brighter everyday he says.

Yes, I agree...Our synastry besides the Saturn/Moon(On Fomalhaut, addictions/wants to disown the world), his Nodal axis on my ASC, and I'm theorizing here...His Sun conj. my 2HCusp(Self worth), combusting it like in horary?

Anyway- Instead of saying "F-you" in reply, I said basically Sorry I had assumed he was a nicer person than what I just saw. Pull the heartstrings(If he has the required equipment.)
Hopefully tomorrows eclipse will wise em up...
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Unread 03-02-2007, 07:31 PM
rahu rahu is offline
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Re: Bullying, Cruelty, & Sexual Deviance in Charts?

much of what you are saying can be attributed to chiron opposed to the pluto/uranus conjuction.his ability to hide these qualities could be indicated by the moon square neptune.the venus/chiron and mercury/chiron midpoints are also opposed to the moon adding a very malicious tone to the potentially sadistic moon/neptune square.the venus/mars midpoint conjunct to neptune can indicate some "different" sexual interests

Last edited by rahu; 03-02-2007 at 09:05 PM.
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Unread 03-04-2007, 09:18 AM
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Re: Bullying, Cruelty, & Sexual Deviance in Charts?

In this Chart,opposition with Saturn and Mars.Saturn is the Lord of down nature,and give information The following are ascribed to Saturn: (1) laziness, etc. (2) obstruction (3) horse (4) elephant (5) skin (6) gain (7) proof of witness (8) distress (9) sickness (10) misunderstanding (11) misery (12) death (13) happiness through a woman (14) maid servant (15) asses and mules (16) outcast (17) one with disfigured limbs (18) haunting woods (19) handsome look (20) gift (21) a lord (22) a portion of life (23) eunuch (24) one born of the lowest caste (25) birds (26) the three sacred fires (27) a servile duty (28) unrighteous conduct (29) one without manliness (30) telling lies (31) long lasting (32) wind (33) old age (34) tendons and muscles (35) strong at the end of the day (36) Sisira ritu or winter (37) great anger (38) exertion (39) born of a very low mother (40) ******* (41) Golaka (42) dirty clothes and house (42) wicked mind (44) friendship with the wicket (45) black color (46) evil (47) cruelty (48) ashes (49) black grains (50) gems (51) iron (52) nobility (53) a year (54) Sudra (55) Vaisya (56) one representing the father (57) learning the trade of another class (58) crippled (59) sharp (60) a blanket (61) facing West (62) life saving drugs (63) downward look (64) living by agriculture (65) life saving drugs (63) downward look (64) living by agriculture (65) arsenal (66) a student belonging to another caste (67) external position (68) fondness for the North-eastern quarter (69) serpent world (70) downfall (71) lost battle (72) wandering (73) a spear (74) lead (75) misdirected strength (76) a Turk (77) worn out (78) oil (79) wood (80) Brahmin (81) the Tamas (82) travelling through forests and over mountains (83) hard-heartedness (84) fear (85) long standing distress (86) hunter (87) ugly hair (88) entire sovereignty (89) alarm (90) goats and the like (91) buffalos and the like (92) indulging in sex pleasure (93) dressing oneself for amorous appeals (94) worshipping god Yama (95) dog (96) theft and (97) cruel-hearted. [Jataka Parijata] Significations: misery, the servant, is dark in form, eunuch, malefic, a person of a hundred years, the color black, iron, a stainless sapphire, West, a heap of rubbish, astringent, the element air. Saturn has stiff hair and limbs; he is lean. His body is dark as Durva grass. His composition has phlegm and wind in it. He has large teeth and eyes of a fine reddish brown. He is intent on dark designs and disposed to inactivity. Saturn occasions distress, by leading to acts which the evils of poverty breed by means of friends and thieves as also by diseases affecting the joints. It is Saturn that settles a person's period of life, livelihood, the cause of death, his adversity and prosperity. Saturn is predominant in Thula, Makara, Kumbha, in the 7th house from the Lagna, in his passage to the south of the Equator, in his own Drekkana, weekday and Dasa, in the concluding portion of a sign, in planetary war, in the dark half of a month, and in all the twelve signs when retrograde. Saturn is the Karaka(significator) of the 6th,8th, 10th and 12th house. Saturn in the 8th house from the Lagna gives invariably what is agreeable. The enemies of Saturn are the Sun, the Moon and Mars. Jupiter is neutral towards Saturn. Venus and Mercury are his friends.
Nature of Mars
(1) Prowess (2) land (3) strength (4) carrying arms for the battle (5) kingship (6) loss of virility (7) thief (8) battle (9) hostility (10) enemy (11) generosity (12) love for deep red color things (13) owning a garden (14) sound of a trumpet (15) affection (16) quadruped (17) king (18) fool (19) anger (20) going to a foreign country (21) firmness (22) supporter (23) fire (24) controversy (25) bile (26) heat (27) wound (28) service under a ruler (29) day (30) sky (31) seeing (32) shortness (33) disease (34) fame (35) tin (36) sword (37) lance or spear (38) minister (39) fracture of a limb (40) jewel (41) praying to God Subrahmanya (42) youth (43) pungent (44) Dubar Hall (45) earthen pots (46) obstacles (47) flesheater (48) calumniating others (49) victory over enemy (50) bitter (51) strong at the end of the night (52) gold (53) summer season (54) valor (44) enemy's strength (56) profundity of character (57) strength (58) man (59) tendency (60) God Brahma (61) axe (62) forester (63) Village headman (64) state inspection (65) pain while passing urine (66) square (67) goldsmith (68) rogue (69) burnt place (70) good dinner (71) leanness (72) deft in archery (73) blood (74) copper (75) a beautiful cloth (76) facing South (77) inclining towards South (78) desire (79) anger (80) scandal (81) house (82) an army commander (83) Sataghni, a weapon (84) a tree (85) Sama Veda (86) brother (87) spade or hatchet (88) looking after the wild animals (89) independence (90) persistency (91) land (92) judge (93) serpent (94) world (95) speech (96) fickle mindness (97) mounting a vehicle (98) sight of blood (99) coagulation of blood, all these and many more things have been credited by the wise as belonging to Mars. [Jataka Parijata] Significations: strength, the commander-in-chief, male, strongly malefic, a child, the color reddish, gold, coral, South, a fire place, bitter, the element fire. Mars has fierce eyes, a youthful appearance and generous disposition. He has bile in his composition, and is exceedingly fickle. He has a slender waist. His limbs are fine and of a reddish hue. He is energetic and lustful, and his tendencies are towards the quality of Thamas or darkness. It is through Mars that a person can ascertain his own courage, disease, characteristic qualities, younger brother, lands, foes and blood (paternal) relations. Mars, when malefic, quickly causes fear by a swelling of the scrotum phlegm, weapons, fire, knotty tumors, boils and such diseases as are born of indigence, and also through the instrumentality of Siva's heroic hosts and the terrific forms of that deity. Mars has abundant strength in his own weekday, in his Navamsa, in his Drekkana, in the signs Meena, Vrischika, Kumbha, Makara and Mesha, during night time, in his retrograde movements, when he is in the southern quarter, and also in the initial portion of a sign. He gives property when he is in the 10th house from the Lagna and also when he is in Kataka. Mars is the Karaka(significator) of the 3rd and 6th house. Mars friends are the Sun, the Moon, and Jupiter. Mercury is his enemy. Venus and Saturn are neutrals to him.
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Unread 03-08-2007, 06:32 PM
Nazgul Nazgul is offline
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Re: Bullying, Cruelty, & Sexual Deviance in Charts?

Hi everyone!

SolarSiren, I think the Moon-Neptune square (7º12) and the Venus/Mercury-Mars square (close to 10º) are out of orb. And they don't tend to bring about cruelty (although Mercury square Mars is a sharp tongue indeed). Could you give any examples of his cruelty? Some people aren't cruel (since they don't enjoy creating pain) but can simply have no inner symbol/representation of the suffering of others (hence no empathy at all). Could this be the case?
Cruelty here could be product of three things IMO:
1) Mars opposition Saturn (about 5º40 orb) - brings lots of frustration and an inner feeling of impotence, which can be overcompensated with reckless acts. And it makes many people workoholics!
2) Mars in 7th house - He masculine energy/will is not fully integrated in his personality, so he might be seeking it by being agressive towards others.
3) Pluto 7th house - His inner feeling of "empowerment" is lacking. Same as my second point.

Hi ability to assert himself and impose his will on others is possible due to the close Sun-Mars trine (so some Mars energy is integrated, although his 12th house sun is kind of dissolved).
Overall, I see a man who overcompensates a lack of "feeling like a man" by being too agressive. He is just searching his own manhood I guess... Does this make any sense to you?
I believe this chart indicates a psychotic personality STRUCTURE, since the Ego lacks boundaries (12th house sun). That would explain the difficulty in relating to others (psychotics are usually harmless and their eternal loneliness makes them withdraw from Relating - mom and dad never related to their son's feelings as he needed, so he never got emotionally structured).

What do you mean by "some very odd sexual proclivities"? Sexuality is an excellent way of understanding how people function in terms of psyche, as long as we understand the metaphors involved. Can you tell us more about it? Also can you tell me if this guy is very intelectual/rational/cerebral? It would be typical of the structure I suggested (a bit like John Nash, from "a beautiful mind"), which is shared by many of our greatest scientists.
Sun (c.parallel Pluto) conj Mars (sextile Moon) in Pisces, 12th House
Moon in Capricorn (square Pluto), 10th; Venus in Pisces (square Uranus), 11th/12th
Mercury in Aquarius (trine Pluto), 11th
Aries Ascendant (opp Pluto)

Lots of Pisces, Mars and Pluto
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Unread 03-10-2007, 07:54 PM
SolarSiren SolarSiren is offline
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Re: Bullying, Cruelty, & Sexual Deviance in Charts?


Thanks for all that information! Very enlightening!

I never thought about the 12th house planets like far as projecting because the native isn't comfortable with them, or disowns them out of fear.
Since going over my chart Uranus/Venus/Sag in 12th, it makes so much sense personally. I flucuate between being very judgemental & critical of other people's sexual/romantic(Venus) morals(Sag) & then be hypocritical
by doing the same. Uranus makes me seek out outcasts/rebel people, yet I'm always the "straight laced" looking one in the group.

Examples of cruelty...It's more subtle, just a very very sharp tongue, intense vibe, not confrontational per se.. but when pushed has pushed back physically(Not at me)...It's like he attracts antagonist people/open enemies...So Mars/Pluto/Uranus in 7th would fit like you said.
Sun in 12th - Is this tougher on men? Like they get frustrated not being able to integrate their ego/inner light?
It needs to dissolve into higher aims(self sacrifice), in this society those are not considered very *macho*, so over compensating with aggression?
I read Sun/12th is more prone to drug abuse too, that works to dissolve.
The father was a colder Scorpio military type, not sure on Mom.

And yes, this person is very intelligent, but prone to day dreaming by their own admission, melody sensitive, & pretty low self esteem.
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Unread 04-01-2007, 10:13 AM
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starlink starlink is offline
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Re: Bullying, Cruelty, & Sexual Deviance in Charts?

Dear Solar Siren, A bit late after you posted your question I happen to see it and would also like to comment on certain aspects. What has not been observed by the others is the fact that he has a intercepted Pisces in the first house and an intercepted Virgo in the 7th. In total there are 4 planets intercepted, as well as Chiron. So apart from having Saturn/Uranus as ruler of the Ascendant, he also has Jupiter/Neptune as co-rulers of his Ascendant. Let's start from here. Intercepted planets have great trouble expressing themselves, they literally feel "stuck" which creates strong frustrations within the person. As you can see, Saturn, one of his rulers of the Asc. is intercepted in his 1st house, in Pisces. This by itself shows a person who does not really know who he is or what he should do. Saturn cannot find ground under it's feet, just water. On top of this, Jupiter and Neptune, the rulers of Saturn are in fixed signs, showing a lack of flexibility and in square to his Moon in Leo. Moon is already not happy in Leo and with those squares to the co-rulers of his Ascendant, it shows even more his inner emotional frustration about who he is. He clearly does not feel happy in his own skin so to say. He could therefore be his own worst enemy. Jupiter and Neptune are also rulers of his 10th house of career and the Moon of his 5th house of selfexpression. The T-square therefore shows here also problems, either in his social environment or in his career. I dont think he is cruel by nature. He might have a sharp tongue and maybe even hit someone when he is angered, but I think he does it only when provoqued. He needs other people badly. Ruler of the Ascendant, Uranus is in the 7th. Saturn the other ruler is in sextile with the ruler of his 7th, Mercury and also with Venus. This shows his charm. Venus and Mercury in the 11th, he really wants to have friends.
The square between Venus/Mercury and Mars I do not consider. The orb is way too big. I only consider more than 6 degrees with aspects with the Lights.(always check on the Astrodienst aspects, they often use too wide orbs).I therefore also do not take in account the trine from these two planets to Pluto and Uranus. (Maybe Venus-Uranus, but certainly not Mercury). So basically he is not an aggressive guy, but can become aggressive when put into a corner or when his feelings are hurt. His Sun in 12 is very sensitive and on top of that rules his "pained" Moon!! so it could indeed take little offense to make him jump. Anger management therapy could help him and give him more selfconfidence. His Sun trines Mars, ruler of his 2nd house of selfworth which is very helpful in case he would like to find out about his pent-up frustrations and resulting anger. Just for the record, the Neptune-Moon square is by no means sadistic. I do hope he can be helped and maybe you can assist him here. Dont hate him, try to understand him instead. Good luck.
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Unread 04-01-2007, 02:20 PM
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flea flea is offline
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Re: Bullying, Cruelty, & Sexual Deviance in Charts?


Something sparked in me maybe as I have pluto opp chiron, many people that year had the same aspect. Chiron or Pluto do not have any real harsh aspects as I can see. They dont always result in cruel people as I have a t-square to my sun. The Interceptions I think are really important and there is another thread that has some good info.

I always like to see which houses chiron and saturn live in, for some hard life lessons. In this case they are in the first house, about self identity esteem and projection. Doubly important as they are not easy to access through the interception.

You are probably very emotionally sensitive to the limitations this person can exert, which again may be emotional,due to Moon conj Saturn. A challenging synastry I would posit.

Last thing is this guy seems to get very bad press, which might indicate why he has to learn some things about how he conducts himself. It may be a superficial thing and not a deeply intrinsic part.

Take what sticks, and leave the rest,

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Unread 04-01-2007, 03:44 PM
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Re: Bullying, Cruelty, & Sexual Deviance in Charts?

deleted post.

Last edited by jagetoile; 01-08-2008 at 10:54 AM.
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Unread 04-09-2007, 07:23 AM
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Natasha Natasha is offline
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Re: Bullying, Cruelty, & Sexual Deviance in Charts?

This guy has three big planets in the seventh. Any seventh house planet is likely to be projected or a hook for projection. With Pluto in the seventh we can find 'the shadow' thru relationship. And if we dont go out looking for it or create it we may unconsciously draw it in. Like a previous poster I wonder about synasty between you and what took shape in this.
If any of your planets connected to his seventh house planets (particularly the pluto or mars) then some kind of projection or hook is highly likely to occur. It is likely you will both experiance it.

Contacts of Saturn to mars have traditionally been seen to be possible contacts for the above items you mention. But its the personality too dont forget. Many with Saturn contacting mars use the energy in a positive way.
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