Wow, I'm
very happy with the interest this has generated and the people replying and the content of the replies--yay! I like reading your replies because it teaches me as well, or reminds me of methods/things I might have overlooked. I want to address everyone's post and also put my commentary and the outcome. This will be lengthy, but aimed to be
very informative!
So the chart was made in Koch. I love Koch.
I usually use Regio, Koch, and Whole Sign--I'm no house system loyalist by any means. I know more inside details than you all so I’ll have more information to add based on the background and be able to cite more astrological significances.
Significators
There are three primary significators, the querent (1H), the bank itself (10H), and the representative of the bank (7H); another significator you may consider is the natural ruler.
Querent: Jupiter, correctly posited in the 3rd house of communications. Well dignified in Pisces, the querent appears to be a goodly person without ill intent. Opposed by negative Saturn, ruler of the second; this confirms they are facing heavy financial frustrations. I would also consider aspects to the ascendant to describe the querent. We see peregrine Mars heated in Leo in trine aspect to the ascendant by 2 degrees right from the cusp of the turned 3rd. This correctly described the non-initially heated nature of the querent--they made 3 calls; by the second one they were pissed off (relevance to the two degrees?).
Bank: So we all seem to agree that Venus rules the bank as a corporate entity--the 10th house lord.
The bank is called "TD Bank", some of you may know it--their logo/color is green. Venus is in Taurus, a sign primarily associated with the color green. Is this a coincidence? When I first looked over the chart, I didn't think to consider that until inspired by some of your posts.
Signified by well-seated Venus it suggests a benevolent disposition, and maybe a positive outcome.
Representative(s):
The querent primarily spoke to 2 men and a woman about the situation. Genderless Mercury seems appropriate. They all sounded to be fairly young, mid-thirties at oldest. Well disposed in genteel Taurus, they were very docile despite the querent's frustration.
Rx would definitely suggest hesitation, but at the same token "change of mind"; and "going back on words". It’s fair to say that Jupiter is stronger than Mercury so the querent has power over the representative.
Natural Significator:
This definitely was a battle of words! So it makes sense to consider also Mercury as a natural ruler of the "situation", and judge its condition accordingly. We see Mercury posited in the 5th house, the house of good fortune disposed by again, well-seated Venus. This alone can imply a positive outcome for the querent but with problems due to the "under the sunbeams" debility and retrograde motion. The square aspect to peregrine, heated Mars in Leo can signify arguments and verbal hostility; and the trine to the ascendant from the turned 3rd sends that virtue to the querent, and back to the representative. This may-be intensified by Mercury being close to the sun. Retrograde; again, implies delay or certain frustration in the issue.
So what was the outcome? After the heated back and forth he-said-she-said debacle, the querent was issued a refund of 80% of the overdraft fees.
Testimonies of YES
No need reiterating what’s been said with my own interpretation, so I will just add my own commentary:
dr.farr said:
-Dragon's Head posited in 2nd house (ie, benefic located in house of querent's wealth/money)
Yes it’s said that the north node is "... a point of definite assistance wherever it is found, assuring cooperation and smooth transactions in areas ruled by the house in which it is found.” So sayeth Marc Edmund Jones! So that is one of many positive YES testimonies in the chart, since the 2nd is the quesited house.
HeyPlayGirl said:
bank is retro merc which could mean they will "go back" on their charges or change their mind about charging them so much and retro saturn is your friend's money? i guess saturn being retro could symbolize the money coming back in their account. saturn is opp jup i dont know how to take that! i guess the opp just shows difficulties in obtaining the money back? moon and saturn are not aspecting either but are in the same house and are moving towards each other...so yes they will get their money back. i dont know if i should take venus into account because venus= money
Everything you said is correct in my book.
And yes you can take Venus into account for that reason, and especially so because the next aspect from Moon is a square to Venus. Quite a few “yes”es there.
TK said:
Significator for the querent is Jupiter and is in rulership (strong) and in the 3rd house (of appropriately communications and documents.... keeping the communiction going is of key importance, hence the POF in Jupiter's rulership) … If I go with will you get your money back (not even figuring in the bank.... just your money) The second house would be used to represent your money. The house is ruled by Capricorn so the Lord is Saturn found rx on the MC angle... that I would call a yes. The other way including the bank in the formula, would have the bank in the 7th (as the other guy) and the significator is Mercury going rx... that with the NN in the 2nd (your money) and the SN in the 8th(their money) I would say yes again the money is returned. Funny I didn;t look for aspects or dignities, this chart just seems straight up.
Initially I took the same approach as you—the answer seemed quite obvious with 2nd lord retro on the MC. We can also count the 10th as the 7th (relational) end of matter, in which things finished for them by a reluctant return of their money (Saturn Rx).
Kaiousei No Senshi said:
I'm also joining the "bank is the seventh house" group in this one. Mostly because I feel the querent views the bank more like a thief than a banking institution in this predicament.
Yes, the querent did say to me, “they’re stealing my money!
”
Kaiousei No Senshi said:
Saturn's peregrine and retrograde which probably isn't that great, but the retrograde suggests a return but I don't think they get all of it back since Saturn is so essentially weak. Saturn's antiscion is less than half a degree away from the PoF, which seems like another positive testimony.
Nice with the antiscion placement of Saturn. Jupiter, Lord of fortune on fortune owns it and reclaims back his wealth though damaged (rx, peregrine) ~ a few coins spilled out of the bag.
Yes, you were right, they didn’t get all of the money back and the only one to call that I think.
Kaiousei No Senshi said:
Saturn is also being received by Mercury, which seems like another positive testimony as the bank people/person is/are inclined to let Saturn do what it wants, which would be to return to the querent.
Saturn in exaltation and rulership and face of Mercury—receives it but also subjects it. Mercury has no choice but to attend to Saturn which we could view as demanding, but fails at doing that well due to its retrograde and “sunburn” condition. So I view this relationship as dysfunctional and subjects Saturn to “good-natured” necessitated mismanagement. This may have also been a suggestion that the querent doesn’t get all their money back; and/or a general sign of negligence.
Neptune Rising said:
Mars is applying to trine the ascendant. Though considered a maelific, this rules the 4th house, which also suggests to me the matter ending favourably. I wonder if the Mars energies also show matter ending speedily.
It didn’t take long, relatively. It ended more angrily than speedily, but they weren’t on the phone for an hour or anything, about 20 minutes or so total calls—so perhaps yes, speedily.
You’re right though, trine from the end of matter did suggest a favorable end but with certain issue, in this case, anger and hostility in the querent and also an actual loss of some of the money.
So there you have it…you were all right..
Not that I expected anything less!
R
