There is no agreement whether a planet can be combust if it's in a sign different from the Sun. But usually it's said that it can't. William Lilly thinks the same way.
Why do i relate to Venus in 3rd house more than 4th?
- Thread starter B3lovedveteran8
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There is no agreement whether a planet can be combust if it's in a sign different from the Sun. But usually it's said that it can't. William Lilly thinks the same way.
B3lovedveteran8
Well-known member
Hmm, that explains a lot also. I believe these placements i have open a door to music and writing, yet there are some challenges like life always has. I believe i can perfect my craft and even perform very well on stage even though i'm quite nervous about it. Once i get used to it i believe i can shine.
One thing to say: In my vedic chart i have Rahu In Leo. Which is also very interesting.
snufflebottoms
Member
It's Cazimi, not Cazami.
Also, Einstein didn't have his Mercury in Pisces, it was in Aries actually. However, it was tightly conjunct to malefic Saturn.
I am not the best speller - my point was that Mercury is combust in this chart, though that isn't the end all be all, Jupiter (even though I do believe he is combust) is still in a fairly strong position.
And I'll be - it is in Aries. The material that I had read was using a sidereal chart!
There is no agreement whether a planet can be combust if it's in a sign different from the Sun. But usually it's said that it can't. William Lilly thinks the same way.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here. I have certainly seen the combustion work out of sign. That said, I am aware that there astrologers who argue that it doesn't. No offense was intended
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
Yes, most angular means closest planet to an angle. Saturn is pretty close to the descendant, but Venus sits exactly on the IC - making her the most angular planet in your chart. A lot of discussion has transpired since my post so I think you more than get the gist of what that would mean in regard to you.
I wanted to prod you to actually think about the placements in your chart, but others have explained pretty well what the aspects that I outlined means for your ambitions.
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conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
I was making a point in regard to emphasis, not domain. A more Venusian rapper may have more emotional content or tackle more soulful topics.
I just looked up 2 mainstream rappers with confirmed birthtimes, Busta Rhymes and Drake, and both seemed to have more solar and martial components and not necessarily Venusian, although Venus is present with the MC ruler in Busta's chart and conjunct the IC in Drake's.
twistandshout
Well-known member
Honestly, as another creative/artist type, I'll say that I'm not sure how much I actually resonate with my own Venus placement. I have Venus in Virgo in the 12th and so much of what I see regarding this placement is about learning about oneself through caring for others, nursing people, being a care taker, etc. Etc. However, I've been drawing since I was a child and have a career pretty much entirely focused on it now. I also have an empty fifth house so that's always been something I haven't resonated with much either.
One big thing I have noticed that can play a role is aspects between the moon (emotions/expressions) and Mars (actions/manifesting). Having an easy aspect between the two shows a need to make your feelings be translated into something more concrete and actively recognizable.
Neptune and Uranus can also play a huge role. Neptune because of dreams, hopes and its ability to sink deeper into things and Uranus because of how it wants to revolutionize the world - and all revolutions need art!
Mercury is also pretty important, especially when it comes to writing (something I also do) as it can be connected to creative problem solving and communication.
The last object I heavily associate with it is Chiron, since if your Chiron is aspecting any or all of these planets, especially with an easy aspect, it shows that the way through healing will involve some pro-active approach to expressing it and manifesting it.
Admittedly, I think all planets play a role when it comes to creativity (except for maybe Saturn and Pluto. Those are two that I still don't see heavily associated with it unless its about discipline and how we might change that form of expression), so I'd say sit down and study the other planets a bit more.
Your mercury is conjunct your sun! That shows that communication is a pretty heavy and big priority for you! Mercury is also on the fifth house cusp which shows word play as an enjoyable activity for you.
Moon is trining your Mars and Jupiter shows a need for emotional expression by allowing it to have room to breath and actually BE!
I've also got an Aqua fifth house and what I've learned is that it can be a 'mechanical' form of creative expression (though it may prove itself to be more fluid since you have planets in yours). By Mechanical I mean that you can likely still create likely rather easily as long as you are not heavily caught up in emotions as you do it. You can (and will!) Still feel deeply but as you create, your feelings might shut off so that you can genuinely focus on creating and producing the best product you can. My friends have been impressed in the past at my ability to work through hard times but that's because I'm (to a degree) able to dissociate my emotions from my creative process, so even if I'm under heavy stress and pressure, I'm still able to because it's over all a cerebral process for me (air ruled 5H) as opposed to a heavily emotional one. You may also feel a need to express as a form of rebellion (Aqua 5H, Uranus in Aqua) too.
Also to note - sometimes the 4th house is also associated with the root of our consciousness/perception/ideas. So it's possible that those planets placed in there are providing creative expression by constantly trying to revolutionize how you see the world and to better understand your roots. Maybe you'll find yourself doing a lot of writing about where you came from, how you grew up, the things you saw and witnessed as a child. There's a lot of ways the 4H can express itself creatively that isn't necessarily associated with taking care of the home!
One big thing I have noticed that can play a role is aspects between the moon (emotions/expressions) and Mars (actions/manifesting). Having an easy aspect between the two shows a need to make your feelings be translated into something more concrete and actively recognizable.
Neptune and Uranus can also play a huge role. Neptune because of dreams, hopes and its ability to sink deeper into things and Uranus because of how it wants to revolutionize the world - and all revolutions need art!
Mercury is also pretty important, especially when it comes to writing (something I also do) as it can be connected to creative problem solving and communication.
The last object I heavily associate with it is Chiron, since if your Chiron is aspecting any or all of these planets, especially with an easy aspect, it shows that the way through healing will involve some pro-active approach to expressing it and manifesting it.
Admittedly, I think all planets play a role when it comes to creativity (except for maybe Saturn and Pluto. Those are two that I still don't see heavily associated with it unless its about discipline and how we might change that form of expression), so I'd say sit down and study the other planets a bit more.
Your mercury is conjunct your sun! That shows that communication is a pretty heavy and big priority for you! Mercury is also on the fifth house cusp which shows word play as an enjoyable activity for you.
Moon is trining your Mars and Jupiter shows a need for emotional expression by allowing it to have room to breath and actually BE!
I've also got an Aqua fifth house and what I've learned is that it can be a 'mechanical' form of creative expression (though it may prove itself to be more fluid since you have planets in yours). By Mechanical I mean that you can likely still create likely rather easily as long as you are not heavily caught up in emotions as you do it. You can (and will!) Still feel deeply but as you create, your feelings might shut off so that you can genuinely focus on creating and producing the best product you can. My friends have been impressed in the past at my ability to work through hard times but that's because I'm (to a degree) able to dissociate my emotions from my creative process, so even if I'm under heavy stress and pressure, I'm still able to because it's over all a cerebral process for me (air ruled 5H) as opposed to a heavily emotional one. You may also feel a need to express as a form of rebellion (Aqua 5H, Uranus in Aqua) too.
Also to note - sometimes the 4th house is also associated with the root of our consciousness/perception/ideas. So it's possible that those planets placed in there are providing creative expression by constantly trying to revolutionize how you see the world and to better understand your roots. Maybe you'll find yourself doing a lot of writing about where you came from, how you grew up, the things you saw and witnessed as a child. There's a lot of ways the 4H can express itself creatively that isn't necessarily associated with taking care of the home!
B3lovedveteran8
Well-known member
Exactly, i'm writing more emotional, soulful rap. Tupac influences me big time, it wouldn't suprise me if he had some venusian influence too. I like Soul Music too. I despise Drake rap, he is just too slow and more r&b and not rap.
What about Venus on the IC? What is so "special" about it?
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
You know, I had a hunch you would.
It's "special" in the sense that your life will be filled with a lot of Venusian activity (due to it's angularity). So the pursuit of music, social contact, popularity/ friends,women and other Venusian things will play an important role in your life. It's not uncommon to have an angular planet though.
If what I think is right in regard to your quotation marks, you and Drake having the same placement is just a coincidence.
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B3lovedveteran8
Well-known member
I can't get this one, what do you mean?
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
Ok, I mentioned Drake's natal Venus placement in one of previous posts to you, right? This placement happens to be the same in your chart i.e. conjunct the IC. Thus, when you placed the word special in quotes (" ") I thought that you were implying some sort of relationship between drake's placement, yours, and Venus' "specialness"
We can chalk up this misunderstanding to the Mercury Rx, and move forward.
B3lovedveteran8
Well-known member
Hey! First of all it's all true what you say, every planet has an influence on how you express yourself creativily. Expect for Saturn and pluto yes. My mercury is conjunct, but it's burning my merc qualities. And should i investigate my mercury in the 5th house also? Because he is sitting in the cusp?
It's true about how i want to express my emotions, and also very accurate on how i want to write about growing up, things i experienced and all that. I 'm currently writing a song about it. Called a letter to my future I. I rap about my story from a child until my present day, and then about my hopes and futures.
waybread
Well-known member
I think combustion is significant in horary astrology, but I twigged onto problems with the traditional interpretation when I looked at a bunch of professors' natal charts, and found that Mercury conjunct (combust) sun was pretty common.
In modern astrology, the sun indicate's one's identity or sense of self. A conjunct planet therefore shows what the person identifies with. With Jupiter, it could be any one of several things: travel (point taken!,) philosophy, higher education, an optimistic outlook on life, or being lucky. An out-of-sign conjunction would be allowed, with the acknowledgement that two different signs would operate differently.
For a trad, the out-of-sign sun-Jupiter conjunction here could be interpreted simply as a matter of orb, but some trads might not allow an out-of-sign conjunction. Apparently the more general designation "under the (sun's) beams" would still work, but it's not supposed to be as damaging to the combust planet.
obsidianmineral
Well-known member
Hello,
Just a like the title asks why do i relate a bit more to the 3rd house than the 4th???
To tackle this issue we first need to check on what your idea of the 3rd house is. Maybe you're confused with the meaning of each house and planet. I think you should try to internalize what each thing represents and then ask yourself questions about how have these points or bodies affected your life and how you've felt them in any manner or way. That is a very important is step in the study of astrology, as it lets you know planets and points from their more basic meanings to their higher meanings. Finally, you will be able to tell the difference between a 4th house Venus in Capricorn and a 3rd house Venus.
Combustion is significant in horary astrology for sure (I’m learning it now) but it is of use in natal astrology too. As I mentioned before, it’s still a big deal in Vedic astrology and was before in Western too. A combust planet is weakened, but it’s not that it’s unable to function. When a combust planet is in its own chariot (domicile, exaltation or term) it is generally believed that the planet is too strong to be devoured by the Sun.
As for your experience with professors’ charts, a lot of other factors can come into play. Is Mercury in Gemini, Virgo or some other sign? Is it in its own term? Is it direct or retrograde? Is it in an angular house (especially the 1st house, the house of Mercury’s joy)? Is it in mutual reception? And so on. Mercury in Sagittarius and Pisces is considered to be debilitated by a lot of modern astrologers even now, but I suspect there are a lot of professors who have it. Certainly it doesn’t stop them from being professors. They might even be extremely good at what they do!
As for the modern astrology, yes, no doubt about what you say, you’re right. As for the traditional astrology, there is no agreement if a planet can be combust if it’s in a sign different from the one of the Sun. A combust planet becomes invisible to the naked eye because of the Sun, so obviously when you look at the sky it doesn’t matter in what signs the planets are, it will still be invisible. But as I see it, if each sign is like a room, then their "borders" are like doors. When a planet has entered another sign, the door closes. So the Sun can’t really reach the other planet when the door is shut and this way the planet is not blinded. However, the Sun’s heat can still be tangible. As far as I know, there are no special remarks about planets not “being under the Sun’s beams” simply because they’re in a different sign, it only concerns combustion. Who knows, perhaps the ancient astrologers thought somewhat like me.
I personally have combust Jupiter. I actually think that it works (unfortunately) and I can see how poorly sometimes my Jupiter manifests. My Jupiter is in fire triplicity, just like the OP’s Mercury is in air triplicity, but according to the tradition, it doesn’t save the planet.
P.S. Mods, please don't delete my replies, I'm a good boy.
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waybread
Well-known member
Thanks, tripiloo-- I looked at the profs' charts back in the 1990s, so I couldn't recreate them now. They were in a field usually classified as a social science. I got the birth dates off a professional directory, which used to publish such things. My recollection is that their Mercuries-conjunct-sun didn't all fall in one sign, but that Virgo was fairly prominent. Not surprising when you consider that faculty research is painstaking, and often involves statistics.
Without birth times, I couldn't do houses. I had to guess at birth locations, unless I knew the profs personally. However, something like sun conjunct Mercury or Jupiter would be global, or at least consistent across a particular country.
I note that Sagittarius and Pisces are ruled by Jupiter, which relates to that more panoramic kind of intelligence associated with higher education.
Without birth times, I couldn't do houses. I had to guess at birth locations, unless I knew the profs personally. However, something like sun conjunct Mercury or Jupiter would be global, or at least consistent across a particular country.
I note that Sagittarius and Pisces are ruled by Jupiter, which relates to that more panoramic kind of intelligence associated with higher education.
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Rawiri
Well-known member
I just thought I'd add, since it was mentioned, that in Jyotish, mercury conjunct the sun is a common yoga (combination) for intelligence - specifically discrimination such as a professor would hold due to the light of truth (the Sun) being with the discriminating and experimenting faculty of the mind (Mercury) and thus, even though combust has the ability to bring good results.
I have also regularly noticed professors with this combination quite close, even with Mercury retrograde. Though the combination is of course rather common.
I have also regularly noticed professors with this combination quite close, even with Mercury retrograde. Though the combination is of course rather common.
B3lovedveteran8
Well-known member
So the Conjunction could be an indicator why i love to write ?
Hi Rawiri! Could you please link me some site which says the same thing you say? I'm not an expert on the Vedic astrology and pretty open-minded about this topic (and in general) so I'm genuinely interested. I haven't seen combustion described as anything good ever on the sites dedicated to the Vedic astrology, but hey, I could've missed something.
Rawiri
Well-known member
Hey tripleooo. Don't get me wrong, combustion is certainly still considered a negative thing and will bring some problems.
An "archetype" might be the absent-minded professor...or academics with insufficient social skills.
It's not really a matter of "this or this" as much as "this AND this."
The yoga is called budha aditya yoga. It is mentioned in BV Raman's "300 Important Combinations" as well as a few other jyotish texts such as Brihat Jataka and Saravali. A google search will find plenty of mention.
"if [Sun] with Mercury, skillful, intelligent, renowned and happy" - Brihat Jataka, Chapter 14, Stanza 1.
Some people consider it not to hold if Mercury is combust (and BV Raman seems to believe this and mentions it as well)... but this is not said in any of the classical texts like Brihat Jataka and I simply haven't found that to be the case. Typically in my experience, it is stronger the closer together they are (all else being equal), especially if Mercury is also retrograde.
It should, like all yogas (IMO), be considered with respect to the planets shad bala which actually takes into account combustion among other things.
So you will read descriptions like it is good in the 1st or 10th...well that is because dig bala of the sun is high in the 10th and Mercury high in the 1st. Or good in Virgo and Aries (places of exaltation) and bad in signs of low dignity. But that is simplistic and it is all naturally taken into account when you look into shadbala of a planet.
When searching I found this thread: http://www.astrologersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=2816 by another astrologer who apparently has also found it to do well, despite combustion.
An "archetype" might be the absent-minded professor...or academics with insufficient social skills.
It's not really a matter of "this or this" as much as "this AND this."
The yoga is called budha aditya yoga. It is mentioned in BV Raman's "300 Important Combinations" as well as a few other jyotish texts such as Brihat Jataka and Saravali. A google search will find plenty of mention.
"if [Sun] with Mercury, skillful, intelligent, renowned and happy" - Brihat Jataka, Chapter 14, Stanza 1.
Some people consider it not to hold if Mercury is combust (and BV Raman seems to believe this and mentions it as well)... but this is not said in any of the classical texts like Brihat Jataka and I simply haven't found that to be the case. Typically in my experience, it is stronger the closer together they are (all else being equal), especially if Mercury is also retrograde.
It should, like all yogas (IMO), be considered with respect to the planets shad bala which actually takes into account combustion among other things.
So you will read descriptions like it is good in the 1st or 10th...well that is because dig bala of the sun is high in the 10th and Mercury high in the 1st. Or good in Virgo and Aries (places of exaltation) and bad in signs of low dignity. But that is simplistic and it is all naturally taken into account when you look into shadbala of a planet.
When searching I found this thread: http://www.astrologersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=2816 by another astrologer who apparently has also found it to do well, despite combustion.
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