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  #1  
Unread 06-24-2019, 05:57 AM
helike13 helike13 is offline
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Saturn as a Cosmic Teacher

Hi everyone,

Is there any statistics about how many percent of people can finally overcome Saturn's lessons and become a master of what Saturn represents in one's natal chart?

In another topic I read about North Node. It said that according to Astrologers 90% of the population can't reach their NN mission during their lifetime. Then what about Saturn?

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  #2  
Unread 06-24-2019, 08:18 AM
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Re: Saturn as a Cosmic Teacher

Hahaha that's funny someone made it in %. Isn't that a bit God complex? No one but the soul and universe knows if they fulfilled their NN. How can someone else judge superficially? Don't all charts have octaves? Just a thought.

Saturn is a fascination of mine since he sits on my Asc and many times I've blamed him for my misery but then I realize I'm my own problem,not Saturn haha .

I think this is almost impossible to see because each planet has limits as much as we have limits. Same with rahu. That's what I meant by the octaves.

The lesson of Saturn to me at least is to live happily with restrictions. We all need restrictions to succeed where we want to. Saturn almost like seperates us from unwanted distraction and keeps us focus on our goals. Long term goals.

I think it's more complicated than "mission accomplished" . For example in vedic astrology is believed that in the second part of your life , your navamsa chart becomes active. So let's say you had debilitated Saturn in Aries while you were young , and didn't respect the law, dealt with illegall businesses and stuff like that , and in the navamsa Saturn becomes exhalted in Libra. Then this person on the outside will look like they mastered their Saturn, became very just, started working towards legsllity and justice and realized their "mistakes ".
But what if Saturn remains in Aries? The person doesn't change. So it looks like they didn't master their Saturn, which is not true . They played out their role. It's hard to understand that every person has a role in this life for good or bad.

It's the same with rahu. Not everyone follow theirs rahu because many people have planets conjunct their SN. So in this case the SN become more active. In a sense they follow their rahu by staying in their ketu. By learning again what hasn't been fully developed.

I don't think it's so black and white as to make a % diagram of who succeeded and who did not. I don't think humans have developed "God " consciousness .

Last edited by ardentika; 06-24-2019 at 08:20 AM.
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  #3  
Unread 06-25-2019, 10:03 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Saturn as a Cosmic Teacher

I really don't believe life is about "overcoming" and "mastery". Rather it's about seeing ourselves as we really are, then accepting and loving our imperfect selves.
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  #4  
Unread 06-26-2019, 04:28 AM
Baat Baat is offline
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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
I really don't believe life is about "overcoming" and "mastery". Rather it's about seeing ourselves as we really are, then accepting and loving our imperfect selves.
I'm reminded of the Tao: "Accept disgrace willingly. Accept misfortune as the human condition."
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Unread 06-26-2019, 06:21 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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I'm reminded of the Tao: "Accept disgrace willingly. Accept misfortune as the human condition."
And then ... Be happy. Be content with what you have, and who you are.
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  #6  
Unread 06-26-2019, 08:20 AM
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ardentika ardentika is online now
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Re: Saturn as a Cosmic Teacher

Yes I agree with greybeard.
Well there are ways to master it sort of... Since Saturn tends to be gloomy and depressive. And I so believe that can happen majorly before the Saturn return with a lot of conscious work .
But it's not exactly mastering as much as trying to understand it's lesson. And every planet it touches is part of that lesson. It draws a bigger picture.

Someone told me "Your soul manifests challenges so that you can turn to it" and somehow that fits here. Or maybe I'm just saying that cos my Saturn is in Pisces haha who knows.

I truly love Saturn, I still don't get why it's so majorly feared. Never seen Saturn deny something . It will if you slack off ,otherwise he is like Jupiter. Jupiter can bless you immediately with things that might not really last, where Saturn promises you your dreams in the long term.
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Unread 06-26-2019, 03:12 PM
Baat Baat is offline
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Originally Posted by ardentika View Post
Jupiter can bless you immediately with things that might not really last, where Saturn promises you your dreams in the long term.
Mhmm. I'm very heavy on Saturn energy, I think the hardest part of Saturn is the self criticism. It can really be debilitating when it gets out of control...

Last edited by Baat; 06-27-2019 at 02:24 PM.
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Unread 06-26-2019, 03:57 PM
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Re: Saturn as a Cosmic Teacher

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Originally Posted by Baat View Post
Mhmm. I'm very heavy on Saturn energy, Saturn return was definitely a mixed bag. Devastating circumstances, one after the next! But I have enough emotional distance from that time period now to appreciate the perspective and wisdom that turmoil can provide.

I think the hardest part of Saturn energy is the self criticism. It can really be debilitating when it gets out of control...
Ugh yes thats true. But its inevitable, all we can do is have a healthy dose of it, to the point where we do NOT bring ourselves down.

Mind if I ask where is Saturn in your chart and what does it aspects? Since it brought such devastating circumstances...
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Unread 06-27-2019, 05:11 AM
Baat Baat is offline
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Originally Posted by ardentika View Post
Ugh yes thats true. But its inevitable, all we can do is have a healthy dose of it, to the point where we do NOT bring ourselves down.

Mind if I ask where is Saturn in your chart and what does it aspects? Since it brought such devastating circumstances...
Wow, I made a mistake in my personal timeline... the period in my life I was thinking of was actually when Pluto was conj to my natal moon.

Saturn return started off on a relatively high note (10 degrees away from conjunction) and kinda unraveled soon after... felt like all of my unlearned lessons and negative karma came back to haunt me. Certainly did put the nail in the coffin for all the residual emotional turmoil of Pluto conj moon transit... these tribulations in comparison have still been a lot to deal with, but feel less raw and terrifying, and they've somehow helped me to move on from previously insurmountable emotional pain. (Giving me new pain to focus on I guess...) There's a greater degree of acceptance.

Sorry for faulty info, I'll edit my previous post.

In case you're still wondering, I have Saturn 1st house, conj moon (5 degrees), trine Mercury (1 degree), trine Venus (7 degrees), opp Chiron (8 degrees), square midheaven (1 degree).
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Unread 06-27-2019, 06:46 AM
helike13 helike13 is offline
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Re: Saturn as a Cosmic Teacher

@ardentika

Are you in Vedic astrology? According to Western Astrology I have Saturn conj Mars in Scorpio in 5th house but in Vedic I have Saturn exalted in Libra.

My Saturn mahadasha will come to an end in Dec 2019 and I will be on Mercury mahadasha for the next 17 years. In Western chart I have Cancer ASC but in Vedic I have Gemini Lagna. So Mercury is my Lagna Lord
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  #11  
Unread 06-27-2019, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baat View Post
Wow, I made a mistake in my personal timeline... the period in my life I was thinking of was actually when Pluto was conj to my natal moon.

Saturn return started off on a relatively high note (10 degrees away from conjunction) and kinda unraveled soon after... felt like all of my unlearned lessons and negative karma came back to haunt me. Certainly did put the nail in the coffin for all the residual emotional turmoil of Pluto conj moon transit... these tribulations in comparison have still been a lot to deal with, but feel less raw and terrifying, and they've somehow helped me to move on from previously insurmountable emotional pain. (Giving me new pain to focus on I guess...) There's a greater degree of acceptance.

Sorry for faulty info, I'll edit my previous post.

In case you're still wondering, I have Saturn 1st house, conj moon (5 degrees), trine Mercury (1 degree), trine Venus (7 degrees), opp Chiron (8 degrees), square midheaven (1 degree).
Oh **** I see. I survived Pluto quincunx moon and k never thought I'd feel a quincunx but boy did I.

I too have Saturn in 1st and that's a difficult position for sure. I feel like it's meant to break you . Vedic astrology also believes this person denied God and divine in previous lives so now they are getting rejected by partners too and friends. Idk how true that is but definitely it circles around spirituality and humbleness and acceptance of self and all.

Don't they say life gets easier after the first return for such people ? Or it never gets easy on the inside ? Some say people with Saturn on first are here to help the collective, people who grow up to have insane emotional intelligence and compassion. Pure and good souls. That's the only thing that mkes me look towards the future. The idea that it will get easier... And it does tbh even tho I'm only 24, I do feel it's getting easier.
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  #12  
Unread 06-27-2019, 07:36 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Saturn as a Cosmic Teacher

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardentika View Post
Yes I agree with greybeard.
Well there are ways to master it sort of... Since Saturn tends to be gloomy and depressive. And I so believe that can happen majorly before the Saturn return with a lot of conscious work .
But it's not exactly mastering as much as trying to understand it's lesson. And every planet it touches is part of that lesson. It draws a bigger picture.

Someone told me "Your soul manifests challenges so that you can turn to it" and somehow that fits here. Or maybe I'm just saying that cos my Saturn is in Pisces haha who knows.

I truly love Saturn, I still don't get why it's so majorly feared. Never seen Saturn deny something . It will if you slack off ,otherwise he is like Jupiter. Jupiter can bless you immediately with things that might not really last, where Saturn promises you your dreams in the long term.
It's those who can't properly handle the power that Saturn gives them who are ruining lives, and devastating the Earth, not Saturn itself. Power corrupts weak souls.

Last edited by david starling; 06-27-2019 at 07:41 AM.
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  #13  
Unread 06-27-2019, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by helike13 View Post
@ardentika

Are you in Vedic astrology? According to Western Astrology I have Saturn conj Mars in Scorpio in 5th house but in Vedic I have Saturn exalted in Libra.

My Saturn mahadasha will come to an end in Dec 2019 and I will be on Mercury mahadasha for the next 17 years. In Western chart I have Cancer ASC but in Vedic I have Gemini Lagna. So Mercury is my Lagna Lord
I've found astrologers who believe tropical signs to work better with vedic and I agree. And to be honest I find this true for myself as well. I'm not crazy I'm vedic but I like reading about it now and then and taking whatever resonates.


And yes David, I agree with you.
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  #14  
Unread 06-27-2019, 02:31 PM
Baat Baat is offline
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Originally Posted by ardentika View Post
Vedic astrology also believes this person denied God and divine in previous lives so now they are getting rejected by partners too and friends. Idk how true that is but definitely it circles around spirituality and humbleness and acceptance of self and all.
1000% my experience. Not sure what I did in previous lives but the rest is uncannily accurate.
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Unread 06-27-2019, 03:29 PM
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Re: Saturn as a Cosmic Teacher

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1000% my experience. Not sure what I did in previous lives but the rest is uncannily accurate.
Haha same! However since my Saturn is a lot more challenged, I've been quite spiritual my whole life, it's just I have those major fallouts, cos I still get rejected a lot. It's like... no matter what you do, you get rejected, even if you embrace "God". I rebel against the idea of a God and I always will. That won't change. My only god is love. However, doesn't seem to work as I said haha.
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Unread 06-27-2019, 06:43 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Saturn as a Cosmic Teacher

I thought I lacked the Earth-Element entirely in my tropical Natal-chart, except for Desc in . But, once I discovered the tropical type of Ages, I realized that everyone has the Age-indicator in Capricorn. My own lack of Earth made it so obviously an Earth-sign Age, and even obviously the Age of Capricorn, with Saturn as Age-lord, even before I knew how to locate the Age in a tropical Chart.
I went along with the pervasive tendency to demonize Saturn, blaming it for everything that's wrong with the world, but gradually I've come to realize that it doesn't have to be like that.

Last edited by david starling; 06-27-2019 at 06:59 PM.
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Unread 06-27-2019, 07:10 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Originally Posted by ardentika View Post
Haha same! However since my Saturn is a lot more challenged, I've been quite spiritual my whole life, it's just I have those major fallouts, cos I still get rejected a lot. It's like... no matter what you do, you get rejected, even if you embrace "God". I rebel against the idea of a God and I always will. That won't change. My only god is love. However, doesn't seem to work as I said haha.
Venus is Age-regulator, but Regulating Saturn is a daunting task!
With the Age-indicator close to ingressing Aquarius, Mercury has already begun the alchemical process of changing the nature of Saturn's effect from "lead into gold".

Last edited by david starling; 06-27-2019 at 07:23 PM.
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Unread 06-28-2019, 07:40 AM
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Re: Saturn as a Cosmic Teacher

Hmm that sounds very interesting but I'm not sure I fully understand. What's an age indicator? Also what do you mean by lead I to gold?
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Unread 06-28-2019, 08:04 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Hmm that sounds very interesting but I'm not sure I fully understand. What's an age indicator? Also what do you mean by lead I to gold?
Lead is Saturn's ancient metal. The practice of alchemy was famous for making it possible to change lead into gold. Mercury is the god of alchemy.
I interpret it as "Malefic" Saturn transformed into a "Benefic" by mental alchemy during the Age of Aquarius.

The famous Age of Aquarius, like in the song, is indicated by an astronomically measured point along the sidereal zodiac which is marked by the Sun each year at the time of the Vernal Equinox. It's known as the First Point of Spring (in the Northern Hemisphere).
That's the most commonly used "Age-indicator" for the sidereal zodiac.

{Please let me know if that explains it.}

Last edited by david starling; 06-28-2019 at 08:28 AM.
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Unread 06-28-2019, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Lead is Saturn's ancient metal. The practice of alchemy was famous for making it possible to change lead into gold. Mercury is the god of alchemy.
I interpret it as "Malefic" Saturn transformed into a "Benefic" by mental alchemy during the Age of Aquarius.

The famous Age of Aquarius, like in the song, is indicated by an astronomically measured point along the sidereal zodiac which is marked by the Sun each year at the time of the Vernal Equinox. It's known as the First Point of Spring (in the Northern Hemisphere).
That's the most commonly used "Age-indicator" for the sidereal zodiac.

{Please let me know if that explains it.}
Oh that makes sense! I actually believe the same, mental alchemy , I like how you said it. I think most planets can become benefic with mental alchemy. I sure as hell seen my challenging chart as benefic but it's hard to keep that mental awareness.
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  #21  
Unread 06-28-2019, 08:12 PM
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Smile Re: Saturn as a Cosmic Teacher

What about the Age-indicator explanation? I'm going to start a thread on HOW the Ages are determined, instead of what the Aquarian Age will mean for humanity. It's not a well-known topic. I'll be explaining an innovation of my own, which makes it easy to sort through the variety of start-dates for the Ages, which are quite confusing otherwise.
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Unread 06-29-2019, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
What about the Age-indicator explanation? I'm going to start a thread on HOW the Ages are determined, instead of what the Aquarian Age will mean for humanity. It's not a well-known topic. I'll be explaining an innovation of my own, which makes it easy to sort through the variety of start-dates for the Ages, which are quite confusing otherwise.
Yes I got that altho I thought the age was indicated by the tilt of the earth axis. Maybe it's the same thing .
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Unread 06-29-2019, 08:38 AM
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Smile Re: Saturn as a Cosmic Teacher

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Yes I got that altho I thought the age was indicated by the tilt of the earth axis. Maybe it's the same thing .
Yes, the tilt is the reason we have seasons. The VP is the Sun's position at the beginning of Spring in the Northern Hemisphere. It wouldn't transit the sidereal zodiac though, if it weren't for Earth's "wobble" as it rotates. So, combining Earth's axial tilt with Earth's wobble, we get Earth's astrological indicator. It sets the context for the entire Earth-centered chart.

Last edited by david starling; 06-29-2019 at 08:41 AM.
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Unread 06-29-2019, 08:54 AM
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Smile Re: Saturn as a Cosmic Teacher

There are Age-degree generations, because the sidereal Age-indicator moves so slowly. Each generation is about 72 years, and has the same Age-sign and degree in everyone's Chart. Each Chart has it Aspected in its own way, and in its own House. Outwardly, an Age manifests as the aggregate result. Some Chart-configurations are better suited to a particular Age-sign and degree than others. So, if you're drawing sidereal Charts, I highly recommend including the sidereal Age-indicator as the "environmental" point.
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Unread 06-29-2019, 09:36 AM
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There are Age-degree generations, because the sidereal Age-indicator moves so slowly. Each generation is about 72 years, and has the same Age-sign and degree in everyone's Chart. Each Chart has it Aspected in its own way, and in its own House. Outwardly, an Age manifests as the aggregate result. Some Chart-configurations are better suited to a particular Age-sign and degree than others. So, if you're drawing sidereal Charts, I highly recommend including the sidereal Age-indicator as the "environmental" point.
Thats interesting and resonates. So how do I draw a chart with the age indicator ?
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