Am I an idiot?

T

thelivingsky

Well-known member
Also, One could have Mercury in fall or detriment but have really great aspects to that Mercury which can act as mitigating influences and strengthening influences. By contrast another person who has Mercury well placed in Gemini or Aquarius but that Mercury has no aspects will likely not be as motivated to develop his intellect and not be as intellectually oriented as the former. I will bet on the former everytime for the depth and ability of their "intellect."

And as for "intelligence" well, their are many different kinds of intelligence and our culture tends to ascribe intelligence to those who speak well and can remember and recall a lot of data. The IQ test has been the most accepted measure of intelligence but we know it only measures abstract thinking ability and it is culturally biased as well. There is a researcher who is a professor at Harvard who wrote a book called Multiple Intelligences, which was widely acclaimed by scholars and educators. In it he posits that there are at least seven different types of intelligence most of which are not measured by standardized tests. Some of these are Visual-spatial intelligence, musical intelligence, mechanical, and even emotional intelligence. I am aware of this research because I have a Masters Degree in education of the Gifted and taught gifted children in the public schools for many years. I read and studied all of the known research on the subject of intelligence or exceptional abilities in order to earn that degree.

Mercury in the natal chart more tells us how the intelligence or intellect is used or in what way it works rather than "how much" intelligence there is.
 
S

Solar Flare

Banned
thelivingsky said:
The sixth house is not "malefic" or bad. It is poorly understood however. It may have to do with disease but also with the daily regimens that contribute to health. But then H8 has to do with taxes and death, and H12 with open enemies, and H5 with gambling and H12 with prisons, and H9 with institutionalized religions (which some feel is a bad thing), and H10 has to do with the government and our bosses. The houses are different fields of human experience, and all are necessary parts of the whole of human experience and human evolution and all have their negative manifestations and positive ones. I know alcoholics who drank themselves to death (alcoholism is a disease) that have no H6 planets.

I would strongly suggest you get a hold of Dane Rhudyar's book The Astrological Houses and see if that doesn't change your perspective.
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I’m afraid the 6th house is indeed malefic... Well, if you don’t think this way, I won’t argue about that. But there are reasons to make this claim and I have personally seen the negative effects of this house manifested. The traditional astrology seems to agree with me. The 1st house rules health, the 6th house rules illnesses and diseases.

Just as a correction, it’s the 7th house that rules open enemies, not 12th. The 12th house rules secret enemies. But anyway, the 8th and 12th houses are called malefic as well, with the 12th house being the most unfortunate... That’s not something I invented. I can argue that gambling, religion and government are just not as bad as illnesses, death and sorrow (in a quite general way) but I can agree that all of these things are a part of our life. Everyone is sick from time to time and everyone dies ultimately. But if these themes are very important in your life because you have many planets in those houses, I wouldn’t call you very lucky, unfortunately... Regarding your statement about alcoholics with no planets in the 6th house, firstly, it depends on what house system you use, and secondly, it’s not necessary to have any planets there at all, there are a lot of other factors that can contribute to the overall picture. No one is saying that, for example, every person with Mercury in the 6th house is mentally ill, that’s very far-fetched and unprofessional, to be honest. I haven’t studied this question, but I expect many alcoholics to have afflicted Moons because the Moon rules liquids, but the affliction can come in many shapes and forms.

Thanks for recommending the book, I may check it out later. However, Dane Rudhyar is a modern astrologer and I’m more interested in traditional astrology... I know that modern astrology doesn’t like calling things bad.
 
C

CancerEvolve

Banned
Solar Flare said:
I’m afraid the 6th house is indeed malefic... Well, if you don’t think this way, I won’t argue about that. But there are reasons to make this claim and I have personally seen the negative effects of this house manifested. The traditional astrology seems to agree with me. The 1st house rules health, the 6th house rules illnesses and diseases.

Just as a correction, it’s the 7th house that rules open enemies, not 12th. The 12th house rules secret enemies. But anyway, the 8th and 12th houses are called malefic as well, with the 12th house being the most unfortunate... That’s not something I invented. I can argue that gambling, religion and government are just not as bad as illnesses, death and sorrow (in a quite general way) but I can agree that all of these things are a part of our life. Everyone is sick from time to time and everyone dies ultimately. But if these themes are very important in your life because you have many planets in those houses, I wouldn’t call you very lucky, unfortunately... Regarding your statement about alcoholics with no planets in the 6th house, firstly, it depends on what house system you use, and secondly, it’s not necessary to have any planets there at all, there are a lot of other factors that can contribute to the overall picture. No one is saying that, for example, every person with Mercury in the 6th house is mentally ill, that’s very far-fetched and unprofessional, to be honest. I haven’t studied this question, but I expect many alcoholics to have afflicted Moons because the Moon rules liquids, but the affliction can come in many shapes and forms.

Thanks for recommending the book, I may check it out later. However, Dane Rudhyar is a modern astrologer and I’m more interested in traditional astrology... I know that modern astrology doesn’t like calling things bad.
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So you are openly agreeing and disagreeing at the same time, you are either sticking with your opinions or not, which is it to be?

This is from traditional Astrology a description of Mercury in the 6th.

"Natal Mercury in the 6th House
With your natal Mercury in the 6th house, you’re exceptionally detail-oriented. You don’t miss a thing, no matter how small it may be, but you can have a hard time with the bigger picture because of that. You’re good with organization, needing structure and order with your thoughts, ideas, and projects."

"Natal Mercury in Leo
With your natal Mercury in Leo, you talk with flair, and you command people’s attention. You express yourself with warmth and this gets people on your side. You’re strongly connected to your beliefs, stubbornly so at times, and can be a little proud. You need to express yourself, and may be a creative person."


It mentions being able to express properly, use your mind which is a release of nervous energy.
Ask anyone on here who knows me well enough, i'm possibly one of if not the most expressive poster on the entire site, however i do have limits.

If you knew me better from what i type, what i share on here other than what i have typed in this thread, you will see it makes much more sense my way than it does your way.

I'm not defending myself or where my Mercury is placed, i'm telling you how it is, there is no if's and no but's, this is how it manifests for me.

Hilariously i am well educated on health however not to the point where i am a "hypochondriac".

Health issues run in my family, the 6th house placement makes me far more aware of it all and health problems.

Know something? i'm rarely if ever ill, i can count on 1 hand times i have been truly ill.

I'm also highly able with computers, self taught.

Relax with your opinions, allow others to show you other roads, it's not that you are 100% wrong, the issue is how you assert that it's black and white when it truly is not.

Do two people with the same sun sign play out the same?

I rest my case.

[Deleted attacking remark and shortened quotes to make sure they were within the forum's limit of 100 words. - Moderator]
 
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S

Solar Flare

Banned
CancerEvolve said:
So you are openly agreeing and disagreeing at the same time, you are either sticking with your opinions or not, which is it to be?

This is from traditional Astrology a description of Mercury in the 6th.

"Natal Mercury in the 6th House
With your natal Mercury in the 6th house, you’re exceptionally detail-oriented. You don’t miss a thing, no matter how small it may be, but you can have a hard time with the bigger picture because of that. You’re good with organization, needing structure and order with your thoughts, ideas, and projects."

"Natal Mercury in Leo
With your natal Mercury in Leo, you talk with flair, and you command people’s attention. You express yourself with warmth and this gets people on your side. You’re strongly connected to your beliefs, stubbornly so at times, and can be a little proud. You need to express yourself, and may be a creative person."


It mentions being able to express properly, use your mind which is a release of nervous energy.
Ask anyone on here who knows me well enough, i'm possibly one of if not the most expressive poster on the entire site, however i do have limits.

If you knew me better from what i type, what i share on here other than what i have typed in this thread, you will see it makes much more sense my way than it does your way.

I'm not defending myself or where my Mercury is placed, i'm telling you how it is, there is no if's and no but's, this is how it manifests for me.

Hilariously i am well educated on health however not to the point where i am a "hypochondriac".

Health issues run in my family, the 6th house placement makes me far more aware of it all and health problems.

Know something? i'm rarely if ever ill, i can count on 1 hand times i have been truly ill.

I'm also highly able with computers, self taught.

Relax with your opinions, allow others to show you other roads, it's not that you are 100% wrong, the issue is how you assert that it's black and white when it truly is not.

Do two people with the same sun sign play out the same?

I rest my case.
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Mercury in the house of illnesses doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re frequently ill and have bad health. Did I state that somewhere? Do you know what’s funny though? I also have Mercury in the 6th house. So what? I also have a very good health and do not consider myself very stupid (though I wouldn’t say that I’m overly smart either) but I still understand that the position of my Mercury isn’t lucky. And that’s OK! It doesn’t hurt if you’re a little bit more self-conscious about yourself. Though having looked up your chart, I see that your Mercury is squared by the superior Mars and Moon so I can understand why you take things so personally and wish to fight anyone who verbally disagrees with you. Also seeing that your Mercury is peregrine in Leo and in the 6th house is very evident from your posts (not only on this thread, I’ve done a bit of digging), I think I could’ve guessed it even if you hadn’t showed your chart haha.

[Deleted attacking comments. - Moderator]
 
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Oddity

Oddity

Well-known member
CancerEvolve said:
This is from traditional Astrology a description of Mercury in the 6th.

"Natal Mercury in the 6th House
With your natal Mercury in the 6th house, you’re exceptionally detail-oriented. You don’t miss a thing, no matter how small it may be, but you can have a hard time with the bigger picture because of that. You’re good with organization, needing structure and order with your thoughts, ideas, and projects. It might be hard for you to get your mind to quiet down and it always seems to be going nonstop, which can lead to nervousness and anxiety. You could be a health nut, even a hypochondriac, and it’s mostly in your head. It would be good for you to find outlets for your mental energy, but also try to find ways to calm yourself down. You could work as a writer, in communications, advertising, with technology, or work with your hands."

"Natal Mercury in Leo
With your natal Mercury in Leo, you talk with flair, and you command people’s attention. You express yourself with warmth and this gets people on your side. You’re strongly connected to your beliefs, stubbornly so at times, and can be a little proud. You need to express yourself, and may be a creative person. You can be a great speaker, with passion and flair. You need to watch for believing that your thoughts, opinions, and ideas are better than everyone else’s, and be more open to what other people have to contribute. If you have a proper outlet for expression, this can be curbed, so make sure you’re not holding anything in and are properly expressing yourself."
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Source please? Because that doesn't sound anything like what traditional astrology would say about house or sign positions. It doesn't go into much about personality. What you're quoting sounds much more like modern astrology than traditional.
 
C

CancerEvolve

Banned
Oddity said:
Source please? Because that doesn't sound anything like what traditional astrology would say about house or sign positions. It doesn't go into much about personality. What you're quoting sounds much more like modern astrology than traditional.
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http://www.thedarkpixieastrology.com/the-6th-house.html

Do show me places to research on traditional, since i seem to be hitting up different types of astrology in search for answers.

I did think that was traditional astrology, no where states either on that site, or at least i have not found anything saying either.
 
Oddity

Oddity

Well-known member
Traditional is mostly found in old books, though there are a few current books about it as well. You can also find articles on some web sites. Chris Brennan does traditional astrology and writes about it, as does Ben Dykes. There are a lot of traditional articles at skyscript but not all of the material there is traditional.

Usually if a site or article is traditional, it will say so.

That site is not traditional, it's modern.

Some trad concerning Mercury from Abu ali al-Kayyat, it talks about personality a bit, but I think you'll see the difference (not just in the writing style):

But if Mercury is the lord of the ASC in a good house, free from [any of] the
infortunes, it bestows on the native eloquence, wisdom grace, beauty, writing,
skill, knowledge, excellence and skill in invention and composition. If the same
[planet] is impedited and in an evil house, the native will be deceitful, a liar,
inclined to evil arts, and every sort of wickedness, a corrupter of letters, and if
there are any of this kind, [they are] liable to deceptions and frauds.

Moreover, it is worthwhile to observe its application with the rest of the planets
because it readily joins together with them.

For if it is with Saturn or applies to
it, it signifies seriousness of Language,with acuity of intellect and such
silence, investigation into medicine, and [a person] of careful opinions, but
with the added nastiness of sexual license and lust.
 
C

CancerEvolve

Banned
Oddity said:
Traditional is mostly found in old books, though there are a few current books about it as well. You can also find articles on some web sites. Chris Brennan does traditional astrology and writes about it, as does Ben Dykes. There are a lot of traditional articles at skyscript but not all of the material there is traditional.

Usually if a site or article is traditional, it will say so.

That site is not traditional, it's modern.

Some trad concerning Mercury from Abu ali al-Kayyat, it talks about personality a bit, but I think you'll see the difference (not just in the writing style):

But if Mercury is the lord of the ASC in a good house, free from [any of] the
infortunes, it bestows on the native eloquence, wisdom grace, beauty, writing,
skill, knowledge, excellence and skill in invention and composition. If the same
[planet] is impedited and in an evil house, the native will be deceitful, a liar,
inclined to evil arts, and every sort of wickedness, a corrupter of letters, and if
there are any of this kind, [they are] liable to deceptions and frauds.

Moreover, it is worthwhile to observe its application with the rest of the planets
because it readily joins together with them.

For if it is with Saturn or applies to
it, it signifies seriousness of Language,with acuity of intellect and such
silence, investigation into medicine, and [a person] of careful opinions, but
with the added nastiness of sexual license and lust.
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Makes sense as to why i can't find anything relating to the opinion i was given.

I have also torn what is supposed evidence down as it's neither solid or forthright with what it mentions in the PM i got.

It mentions "generally" and "representation" so in other words, changeable and room for difference.

Am i correct?

Which is what i said with the mentality i got from the other user as "black and white" to what is really a grey area of abundant differences.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h6.html
 
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Oddity

Oddity

Well-known member
Mercury's basic function is to destabilise, to break things into pieces. It's Jupiter that puts them back together again (big picture). This is why these two are so opposite. But if they're in aspect and it's a soft aspect or at least a good reception, something productive can usually come out of their connection.

Dark, or malefic houses are houses that do not see the ascendant by whole sign aspect. The 12th is a dark house. It's right on top of the ascendant, and it's where the sun rises, all bright and hazy, and you can't see anything in there. Hence the illness, isolation, prison, secret enemies, being your own worst enemy.

The second house is a dark house, too, though it gets a bit of a reprieve since it is rising towards the ascendant. Still, there can be a whole lot about your own money that you don't know, and can make you miserable.

The sixth is another dark house, and it also pertains to illness, slavery, the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

And the eighth is a dark house. Fears, poisonings, surgery, death, taxes. By derived houses it can also mean things like the spouse or business partner's assets, but that doesn't nullify the original meaning.

Traditionally, anyway. If a house doesn't see the ascendant, it means that things are going on that the native isn't necessarily aware of, and often those things are bad. Not always, but enough to throw up a big caution sign. And planets in houses that are dark can't do much to help the native because - they don't see (aspect) the ascendant - which, in traditional astrology, is you.
 
Oddity

Oddity

Well-known member
As to the other bit. Traditional astrology does not conflate signs and houses, outside of medical astrology (Aries and the first house can both represent the head, that kind of thing).

Modern astrology often conflates signs and houses. So while Virgo and the sixth house have no correlation in traditional astrology, they often do in modern.

And it's completely up to you how to interpret the charts you run, so do it whichever way makes more sense to you.
 
C

CancerEvolve

Banned
Thank you oddity for your insight, this has helped me a lot to understand where the other person was coming from.

Things are good between me and this other person by the way, there is no bickering.
 
K

katydid

Well-known member
I also have my Mercury in the 6th, although it is one and a half degrees from the descendant.

I have to agree with the 'non-astrologer' CE, that the 6th house is a fine place for Mercury's placement. It is a cadent house, fitting well with both Gemini and Virgo, which are ruled by Mercury.
 
Osamenor

Osamenor

Staff member
Oddity said:
Source please? Because that doesn't sound anything like what traditional astrology would say about house or sign positions. It doesn't go into much about personality. What you're quoting sounds much more like modern astrology than traditional.
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Indeed. I would like to remind all of you that it's against the rules of this forum to quote from a book, article, other website, or any other material that didn't originate in this forum without citing the source. It's also against the rules to quote any passage longer than 100 words. From the forum FAQ, way down at the bottom (you all read it when you joined, just like you were supposed to, didn't you?) :sideways:

In order to respect copyright laws, members must not paste in their posts texts copied from other websites or other publications that are over 100 words long each. A maximum of 3 quotes of texts copied from other websites or other publications is accepted per post and each quote must be from a separate website or other publication. Each quote will be indicated in some way, such as placed between quotation marks, between the tags
copyrighted text
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or in some other way indicating that this is copied text. The source should be properly mentioned: book or magazine author and title, name of magazine, ideally also additional publication data. If the text is publicly available online, a link to the source should be given.

Plagiarism, defined as copying one's work and passing it off as one's own, is not accepted. Material in the public domain (that either was never copyrighted, either the copyright has expired) has to be appropriately cited also.
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For that reason, I have taken the axe to several of the quotes here. That included deleting a good portion of a post that I really couldn't tell if it was a quote or not, because there was no source cited and nothing to indicate that it didn't originate in the poster's mind, but the style was too unlike a discussion board post, so I erred on the side of not violating copyright laws. People, using someone else's words as if they were your own is plagiarism. Plain and simple.

I have left part of the quote up for now, but if the poster doesn't come back and cite the source within a reasonable amount of time, it too will be deleted.

Might I also remind you all that under no circumstances are personal attacks allowed. I have done a lot of editing and deleting in this thread for that reason, too.
 
Hermeshadesluna

Hermeshadesluna

Well-known member
That combination in my view gives you sharp, keen emotional insight, since your Mercury is in the 1st and the Moon in 7th, others can readily see it also since the 7th lord is in the 1st.
 
HoldOrFold

HoldOrFold

Well-known member
CancerEvolve said:
Do show me places to research on traditional, since i seem to be hitting up different types of astrology in search for answers.

I did think that was traditional astrology, no where states either on that site, or at least i have not found anything saying either.
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I'm quite a fan of Astrology X Files

On the 6th house: http://www.astrology-x-files.com/houses/evil-fortune.html

On Mercury in the 6th house: http://www.astrology-x-files.com/houses/mercury-6.html

Quote from that page: "... if dignified or received, especially by the lord of the 10th then this is good for professions in accounting, writing, education, communications or news media, computer science and technical fields..."
If debilitated, it mentions frequent job changes, disorganisation, trouble with co-workers and possible parkinsons and alzheimers disease.
 
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