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Fixed stars, asteroids and other cosmic objects For astrology talks on fixed stars, Chiron, Sedna, Eris or any other newly discovered or little known cosmic object.


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  #1  
Unread 03-02-2006, 11:29 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Are Chiron and Black Moon Lilith the same?

Hi again,

Browsing the forums I've noticed that the most 'viewers' have zoomed in on posts concerning these two anti-Saturn social rebels; I suppose to get an understanding of their qualities and what these would mean TO them, yet, alas, without offering personal experiences in order for astrologers everywhere to expand their knowledge of those particular facets of a person's life which pertain to Chiron and the various Lilith's roles in them. As a Taurean sun, the best way for me to learn is through practical experience, so I thought to open a new post on these two conscious-raising individuals, as I have experienced them, in the hope that others will be unafraid to follow my example and share theirs. I have an exact 12th house BML-Chiron conjunction to my Virgo Ascendant, so the fact that I personally associate with them goes without saying

I went through the learning rotes of astrological theory as does everyone but I was always left looking at the back-side covers of the specific books, seeking the rest that still remained unexplained! For me, the biggest question was, "Where does the pain come from and why won't it go away?" And I wasn't referring to the pain from which physical scars bear the mark, but the pain that no one sees from the outside but hurts like h--- inside :evil:
Moving towards health astrology introduced me to Chiron and it was as if the pieces of life's puzzle began to fit into place. Chiron's orbit lies between Saturn and Uranus. It's been closer to Saturn since its discovery at 3* Taurus (coincidentally conjunct my 9th house POF), although I don't know if this is still so. Its effect, therefore, in my case refers to something that involves real situations.

As tr. Mercury is now trine my natal Saturn, I shall try imagery to explain what I mean.....and my own experience. Think of Saturn as a barrel, or the door of a room which contains all the content of a situation(s) that caused pain. Pain that arose because, "Not I but (S)HE did that. I didn't do anything to bring on the situation. It was not of my making, yet I live with the result." The situations were suppressed because of the pain they caused. Saturn placed a lid on the barrel or closed the door of the room, sealing off the light, yet leaving them in such a way as they could be opened at will...if it was willing . The only way to see Uranus's light :idea: was, at some time, to open the barrel or put a foot in the door. That was Chiron. It was truly the bridge that led me out of the darkness of my self-imposed confines of Saturn into the enlightenment of Uranus's new day.
Chiron shows what, where,how and why the pain is there and who was/is responsible (!), after which Saturn made me confront it, deal with it and accept it. Chiron showed me that that what was cannot be changed, but I *could* change the way I looked at it, so that Uranus could pave the way for new insights into a future free of the chains of the past. Chiron removed the ballast of pain and enabled me to heal; not within a day but with Saturn's own gift, time. The scar it left may never be gone completely but, just like those physical scars gained through the years, it's one I can live with.

My study of (MEAN) Black Moon Lilith has shown it to possess similar effects to Chiron. The main difference is that Chiron refers to the pain as a result of actual circumstances, something that actually took place. BML signifies a pain that occurs as a result of that which is never physically there, does not exist, never happens, is not meant to be, yet keeps and lives a reality within. It is just as much ruler of the inner world barrel as Saturn is of the outer world barrel, and the pain each inflicts can be devastating. BML is often the hidden inner pain as a result of the feeling of non-acceptance; the pain one endures that is indicative of the how, what, where, why one cannot conform and submit to the authority of another. Even the very simple , "you won't belong unless you do as I/we want, say, act" can make BML defiant in such a way that its very action makes one feel bad and ashamed instead of good and right about themselves. That's when the 'false' image/nature replaces and denies the one of how one really is; the inbred active first nature instinct which one should always allow to exist within.
In my case BML in Virgo represented my 'dirty' and 'unclean' image of myself as a result of physical abuse in childhood, and in which 'keep your hands off me' to remain 'chaste' was deemed wrong.
It was replacing that 'bad' abused child and acknowledging the natural 'good' person BML represented who had always been there within me, that was the final missing piece and completed my personal puzzle.
The demons vanished as soon as the angel returned.

I hope the imagery worked and this tale may encourage others to share theirs.........for astrology

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Unread 03-02-2006, 07:40 PM
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Oooops.
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Unread 03-02-2006, 08:11 PM
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Yes - great post Frisiangal. My only problem is that Chiron and Black Moon Lilith are 3 degrees apart in my natal chart!!

Perhaps this has been a big part of my challenge - to discern what's real and what's not within the same experiences of wounding. I'm in my Chiron return now and of course Lilith wants to play too (she's hovering around my Pluto right now). Maybe I should read for their Sabian Midpoint which is 10 Aquarius:

310__(10)
UNSPOILED BY POPULARITY NOW WANING A MAN PLANS ANEW Ability to rise above vicissitudes of passing fortune. Faithfulness to self. Dependence upon native endowment. Projection.
___*When positive, the degree is a gift for bringing the issues of life to a dramatic consummation at a time of crisis, and when negative, prodigal opportunism.

This actully means a lot to me and got choked up as soon as I saw it. I was immediatly reminded of life before my parents divorce when I was 8. My Dad was a Disk Jockey and partners in Southern California's first FM radio station. His partner was the most famous ballplayer of the era. I was his little buddy and went though a huge loss when the marriage and the partnership blew up. The prodigal opportunism has to deal with the family business I was shunned from fully participating in later because I was the stepchild. I had to deal with the reality and fantasy of being the abandoned stepchild after having been the star of the family and the community pre-divorce.

I thought I was done with this stuff already..but I still feel the hurt plainly and see that I was spoiled by the popularity.

Kite
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Unread 03-02-2006, 08:36 PM
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How many bodies do we have? Lots and lots of layers and more layers to excavate through while in another Initiation aka transit! Times short so these lessons seem to be coming so fast and so compressed lately. It's amazing how resilient we and our bodies are though now.

A slightly random question for both of you. Is BML sort of like Pluto in some regards? A super female version sort of?
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Unread 03-02-2006, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
slightly random question for both of you. Is BML sort of like Pluto in some regards? A super female version sort of?
I think she takes on shadow projections which accounts for the perception of hurt as opposed to real hurt - I reckon (feelin' Texan today).

I think Pluto deals with shadow as opposed to creating it. Pluto likes to go undercover BLM likes to play the vamp and game the system..like Kathleen Turner in Body Heat. Ok..I'm a little whacky today. It must be March is Kite flying season!
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Unread 03-02-2006, 11:22 PM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapis
A slightly random question for both of you. Is BML sort of like Pluto in some regards? A super female version sort of?
I think the answer to that is according to whether you have Pluto heavily aspected in your chart and liken it to BML, OR BML is in Scorpio
I've tried very hard to get away from this ''female' energy label and think in terms of 'feminine' energy; i.e. that which is exuded through the active FEELING nature and is creative, as opposed to 'masculine' energy such as is associated with Mars and Sun.

BML linked to Pluto is obviously going to have deeply hidden feelings relating to the issues Pluto has to contend with in the outer world, but 'feeling' you'd like to overpower, control, possess, or even kill someone is not the same as actually doing it, is it? BML possesses the natural traits of the sign it is in, although they may not surface for a long time, or it can totally turn away from everything the sign represents.
BML in Libra, for instance, can feel a lack of equality, in Pisces a lack of self-realisation, in Aquarius, the feeling of independence is the issue, and Capricorn can show total or lack of discipline. These are hardly traits that would be associated with Pluto.


Would like to add a thank-you for your kind reply to the first post. If it helps you rid yourself of the personal demons that have plagued you, then it was not written in vain.

F.
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Unread 03-03-2006, 01:02 PM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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[quote="sita"]lAPIS AND ALL
iN LIGHT OF mERCURY rETROGRADE, PLEASE REMEMBER i AM MORE THAN A LITTLE BACKWARDS RIGHT NOW.... ]

Hello Sita,
I always had a bit of a negative idea around my own retro. Mercury until, just recently, Richard Nolle of www. astropro.com said that planets in retrograde positions actually strengthens rather than diminishes their influence. When I think of Mercury's ability under influence of Pisces to look inwards and create fantasy, fiction, spirituality, and give it a reality, OR lose sight of reality through the outlet of creative fantasy, this must be extra powerful when it's retrograde.


[i THINK blm
IS DIFFERENT
FROM pLUTO
IN THAT SHE HAS LESS ENERGY POTENTIAL. sURE. THE ***** CAN RAGE, BUT SHE DIES OUT EVENTUALLY CAUSE SHE'S ONLY BURNING ON THE FUEL OF OLD PAINS. iT'S JUST NOT IN HER TO FIGHT FOREVER CAUSE SHE'S NOT CONNECTED TO SOURCE.]


When I was drawn towards the study around Black Moon Lilith.... and I STRESS that I have no idea how the asteroid Lilith works which IS a physical body..... I looked at the Lilith myth from a feminine perspective beginning with the first sentance of the Christian Bible "........ and the Earth was without form." I translated this to mean that the feeling of, or guidance by/from natural instinct was there long before the reality by fact was even an idea, let alone born! Then Man (Adam) comes along and following one's instinctive feeling (Lilith) is denied. It has to do as it's told in favour of fact, or get out. Natural instinct is strong, refused subserviency, and IN ORDER TO SURVIVE left a Paradise ruled by Man and not the Source. The survival instinct is in Lilith, just as the will to survive as a species is in Pluto.

You make the same link as I with Lilith. It does feel disconnected from the Source of life of which it was once part, and it's forever trying to be included again. It is a pure, natural and innocent part of one's nature that has not been contaminated by conditioning, and it is not allowed to function, nor can it exist, in a world that is governed by rules, regulations and conditions. That's Saturn's territory. Similarly, when something in one's nature is denied admittance by one's self so that one can feel accepted and part of any society, that nature is disconnected from the Source of (personal) Life, aka self-denial. That feeling can go the step further, according to one's belief system, that one is disconnected form THE Source of all life.

Back to the feminine perspective of the Lilith myth. Imagine that the reason Lilith made trouble for Adam was because she was a child of innocence, not yet into the womanhood of the Moon's cycle. It puts an entirely different light on that 'not wanting to lie under' idea, doesn't it, and the story behind the further myth? Barren? Child Killer? That would then have to be translated in an entirely different way. Luring men? Which young person approaching puberty doesn't stir the imagination of an older person?
As innocence Lilith is then the victim rather than the assailant, wouldn't you say?


[ iN MY mIND, blm IS VERY VERY DIFFERENT. sHE SEEMS TO HAVE MOSTLY POTENTIAL TO DESTROY, HURT, SHREEK, SCREAM, THROW DISHES AT HER STUNNED KIDS AND HUSBAND, ETC... jUST FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAKING US AWARE OF OUR HORRIBLE ILLS AND CHANNELLING THAT WOUNDED ENERGY INTO CONSCIOUSNESS IN A WAY WHERE THE WOUNDING JUST CAN NOT BE DENIED.]

If Lilith represents the inner images such a person carries of the kids/husband, they probably originate from a source that goes way back.
Lilith in a harsh aspect between any planet to the Moon could be an indicator of the display of outer force.


[... fROM THERE WE CAN MOVE ON TO CHIRON OR PLUTO OR WHOVER ELSE HEALS FOR THE INDIVIDUAL. . bUT REST ASSURED, sHE'S NOT THE TYPE TO KISS THE BOO BOO OR MAKE IT BETTER ANYTIME SOON, aND THOUGH SHE MAY BE SCREAMING AT THE BLOODY ABORTED MESS WE HAVE TO CLEAN UP, sHE'S NOT THE ONE TO DO IT FOR US. ]

I'd be inclined to disagree as Lilith would have to be let out of the broom cupboard first to show the stuff it's really made of

[ in my opinion. sHE'S MORE LIKE A GUIDEPOST. sHE'S THE WOUND RISING UP FROM THE gUTS OF THE WOUNDED HELL INSIDE WE'D LIKE TO DENY............... ]

Would this also apply if Lilith made only positive aspects in the chart?

[ iF plUTO IS THE OPERATING DOCTOR. BLM IS THE NURSES ASSISTANT sHE'LL POKE AND PROD AND TAKE YOUR URINE, BUT SHE CAN'T PRESCRIBE BECAUSE SHE JUST DOESN'T HAVE THE DEGREE. ]

Or could it be the natural instinct that guides the operating doctor's hand?


Potent imagery, Sita, would you be willing to divulge the aspects Black Moon Lilith makes in your chart?

F.
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Unread 03-03-2006, 09:43 PM
sita sita is offline
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Of course.

My BLM Lilith sits at 12* Cancer,
My Dark Moon Lilith sits conjunct at 9* Cancer
Conjunct Jupiter at 1* Cancer, which is conjunct
My moon at 28* Gemini.
They are all in my fifth house.

BLM is iis in a pluto square.
Dark moon is semi-square saturn.
My asteroid Lilith is conjunct my sun, opposite pluto.

I have a rocking chart if you would like to look:.

(all transpersonals are retrograde, too)

Your comments would be welcomed.
Sita
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Unread 03-04-2006, 12:02 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sita

My Lilith sits at 9* Cancer,
She is conjunct Jupiter at 1* Cancer, which is conjunct
My moon at 28* Gemini.
She's also conjuct Dark moon Lilith, same degree, I think.
They are all in my fifth house.

She is also in a hate/hate relationship with a semi-square to Saturn in Leo in the 7th house.

I'm not planning on having a family.

Care to comment? I'd be intrigued,

With transiting Saturn conjunct your Solar Arc MEAN BML, transiting BML inconjunct transiting Chiron, it might bring painful stuff up. But with secondary direction BML about to reach the exact sextile to natal Venus within the coming year, you might find yourself able to actually express
l-o-v-e afterwards as a result of it.

I work with maximum 6 degr. orb for major aspects, so I wouldn't count the Jupiter-BML conjunction. But I would definitely include the square to Pluto and the trine to Uranus. And the semi-square to Saturn, of course.

The BML-Pluto square explains your last post. A lot of bubble-bubble-toil- and-trouble brewing in that witch's pot, that goes right back to childhood.
I have found BML in Cancer renowned for turning off feeling as a defence mechanism against the lack of emotional bonding the child experienced. The "I don't care", "I don't need anybody" to survive(with Pluto) attitude really covers a deep regret that the needs one yearns for are non-existent. Where? In the realm relating to matters of the house BML is in. If the child has never experienced the natural 'Cancer type affection', the natural mother/parenting instinct is impeded but it IS there. It just needs to surface. BML can work very well with Uranus in feeling emotionaly detached. It doesn't feel the need to bond in any relationship it enters into and Uranus doesn't like emotional chains that impede its independence anyway. To other people, the relationship between these two provides the label 'weird'. Both are in signs that are there to deal with the emotions one undergoes.
Harsh aspects with BML in Cancer or the 4th house have coincided with difficulties in bearing children, voluntary or forced terminations, the 'lost'child, etc. that lives on inside. BML in this sign needs first to find and care for the needs of the child within Self. Take it back into itself, comfort and care for it, give it a place where it feels at home so that the hurt incurred ends.
BML in the sextile to Venus has a deep inner need to FEEL loved. I was taught that sextiles become productive when the challenges presented in the squares have been met. This child has so much love to give of itself in physical affection but it is buried deep within by Pluto's overpowering effect to destroy any close relationship entered into (Pluto in Libra) that is not built upon fairness, equality and respect for the other's wishes.
With Saturn, BML MUST overcome its fears of holding back from becoming emotionally involved.

There is great regenerative power in the BML-Pluto aspect, once the 'bad' images and feelings have been laid to rest for good.

What also seems to happen is that BML appears to surface through the opposing sign. This would be Capricorn; giving a reality to that which one longs for.

If you hear any bells ringing, I'd appreciate hearing about them.

F.
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Unread 03-04-2006, 02:18 AM
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This was the deepest hit I've gotten on this forum to date. Everything resonated.

Your post came at the perfect time.

One question for you before I go:
I didn't understand what you meant when you wrote
Quote:
What also seems to happen is that BML appears to surface through the opposing sign. This would be Capricorn; giving a reality to that which one longs for.
Could you explain this more? Does this mean I would go for Capricorn/Saturn types?

Thank you. I'm stunned.
Sita
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Unread 03-04-2006, 10:38 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Hello Again Sita,
I am so very glad for you that you have found that little 6 year old girl in you and can give her back her rightful place in yourself. She was innocent and never to blame....even though she may have accepted it... for the outer experience that made HER retreat into the woods and YOU to disconnect from feeling. It must have been such a lonely place for her all these years, when all she needed was to feel embraced and express her love. As strange as it may sound, if YOU look inwards and apologise to HER for shutting her out of your lfe, you will find her forgiveness comes so very easily because you are simply forgiving your Self for something you preferred to shut out than live with. Everyone has their ghosts in the closet that they don't like to be reminded of yet continue to play on their minds (the inner demons!). Some are easier to face than others and help in opening the closet doors can work miracles.The ghosts seem to diminish in size and aren't half as scary as they appeared

I think it is a bulls-eye for Mean Black Moon Lilith that she is exact trine your natal Chiron to-day, which, if I have counted correctly is totally unaspected in your chart. This is suggestive that the little girl's pain is of a physical nature and there is no outlet for its expression than the proverbial charging like a bull in a china shop to realease its energy. It may have a lot to do with the Arian Sun energy as well... ; "Look; I am here, you know. What about ME and what I want", that was never acknowledged in the manner Aries desires.

Your chart seems to show two individuals within you; the lively, effervescent, friendly individual full of plans of the moment regarding how things can be and that you are able to show in your interaction with people; and the 'split' into another person of a deeply introvert nature attempting to find emotional balance. Black Moon Lilith aspects the latter. I think it is no coincidence that your sec.progr. Moon entered Cancer about 5 months ago and this has started to churn up your feelings regarding your personal needs and the lack of their fulfilment. By June you should feel the effect of sec. prog. Moon conjunct Black Moon Lilith, by which time the meeting between your inner and outer feelings could well result in balancing any health difficulties ( Moon rules 6th house.)

There's much more going on in your chart, progressively speaking, but that is outside the realm of Black Moon Lilith.

You asked what I meant by saying that Black Moon surfaces through the opposing sign. This is what I have observed time and time again. If the natal position shows the natural trait that is unexpressed, the opposing sign and house can show how and in which area it reveals itself. In your case this would be through Capricorn in the 11th house'; something about becoming independent of the past and turning into a respected human being perhaps ?
Although you may not agree, you are, astrologically speaking, still a child because you have not yet undergone the return of Saturn to its natal position. The Moon's return has already occured; you ARE in the changeling stage. Then tr. Uranus, ruler of your Ascendant, will trine itself from the 1st house. You will experience the change in yourself. Finally Saturn will return to its natal position. give it a year to get things sorted out and the ugly ducking will evolve into the swan
Now; ain't that all something good to look forward to ?

F.
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Unread 03-04-2006, 08:43 PM
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I just did a web search on unsapected chiron and came up with paltry scraps of info. No articles. What does it mean if chiron is unaspected?
Sita
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Unread 03-04-2006, 10:26 PM
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Hmmmmm--
I'm trying to read the previous posts on this
thread, but I can't because the sentences run-on and on and on and on off the edge....
is this just me, or can be
fixed at Radu's end? :cry:
Wahhhh
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Unread 03-05-2006, 10:58 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sita
Frisangel

The part you wrote about the two distinct individuals in me is INCREDIBLE. It was a welcome shock to be so intimately called on my issue of fragmentation. ........ I allways attibuted this to having a Gemini Moon, but I have a feeling you saw this else where in my chart.


I am glad to know I Ihave something to look forward to this June. .....This crazy tension has caused health difficulties, although I am so certain of this fact that I refuse to see a doctor. I'm doing the best I can, and that's all I can do. No sense obsessing over a diagnosis. I'm wise enough to know I wouldn't use that information wisely, so I'd rather not have it.

.Thank you so much Frisangel,
Sita

It's my pleasure, Sita, if you have been able to grab hold of the string of your balloons that were always in your grasp but looked as if they were escaping you

Re: The two sides? Mainly by seeing the incomplete T-squares in your chart that don't aspect a 3rd planet through which easy integration occurs. It's like you have the crossroads but not the junctions. . Uranus is ruler of your Ascending sign, and that is always associated with separation and 'splitting', isn't it ? As you say, Gemini is also associated with a duality of nature, but I didn't see it as a contributing factor because of the stabilising factor of the sextile to Saturn. Astro.Com adds a wide orb 135 degree aspect between Moon and Uranus, which could imply the difficulty of living with a dual personality as such, but it's a bit too wide for me. I believe you KNOW there are extremes in your nature. It's not something that is repressed or out of your conscious control (Sun trine Saturn). You just choose NOT to control it until the time comes that it suits you to do so. Uranus squares Saturn, and both are in open houses (I use Placidus); you can deal with it if you so choose.


Re: June. you do realise that you can't just sit back in your easy chair and wait for the miracle, don't you You also have to do something constructive to bring it about. This might include seeking profession help unless you know yourself to be strong enough to do it alone. Transiting Saturn is now conjunct your Solar Arc Black Moon Lilith.
Black Moon Lilith in Leo correlates to a deep feeling of (not) being dominated. If you refuse to allow the past to dominate your actions no longer, you'll be using the combined energy at its best.

Re: Your health problem. Please don't take this the wrong way, but if it is your 'spirit' that is in a state of temporary ill-health, you can do something about it. If it refers to all that burning anger of your Mars in Leo, do as I once did. Take yourself off somewhere where no one can hear you, and let it all out. Roar like a lioness, scream like a 'spoilt' child, hit out at the sand or the grass or the trees (Chiron in Taurus- nature) which will understand and receive your energy, until it's gone for good. The energy you re-charge in yourself will be SO positive because it will be pure and warm and clear of infection.
If, however, your emotional problems have brought about physical symptons, you MUST see a physician. I truly believe in the strength of will
that can heal but it is a fact that a physical complaint HAS reached the stage of infecting the body. Sometimes even Aries must be willing to admit it can't do everything by itself and a bit of outside aid can revive its strength

Re: Chiron. Melanie Reinhart wrote a wonderful book, "Chiron and the Healing Journey."
An unaspected Chiron will work just as any unaspected planet does. The qualities of the sign it is in become the force of its pain. Taurus is about values and self worth but it is physical sign. The pain incurred may have literally left a physical scar which makes one place less value upon one's ability to function in a practical way. When the 'inner' pain is healed, though, that same person could set up a 'practice' healing others because it has experienced the same.


F.
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Unread 03-07-2006, 01:50 AM
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Fris-angel,
Thank you for helping with me with my questions.

I took your counsel and really got into my Mars in Leo energy this weekend. The day Saturn moved into Leo in July, my back went out, my energy jammed, and for a week I thought I was going to be paralyzed. Health has never been a problem for me, so I'm having a hard time adjusting to having to take it so seriously. But I will. Progressed Saturn's in my sixth house, along with Pluto square moon in cancer, and when I saw that for the first time this weekend I really took note.

Anyway, thanks. You have my respect because your knowlege and wisdom are obvious. Heck, I'd even PAY you for a chart... Now THAT'S a compliment!

Sita
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Last edited by sita; 07-02-2013 at 02:53 PM.
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Unread 03-07-2006, 08:22 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sita
Fris-angel,
......................thanks. You have my respect because your knowlege and wisdom are obvious. Heck, I'd even PAY you for a chart... Now THAT'S a compliment!
Sita

You couldn't afford me; I'd require nothing less than complete honesty from your soul.

Re: Health. The back is similar to saying , "Where's my backbone?" As part of the Leo region, which also includes the heart...the sun of course,
you're not yet aware of the true spirit within you. Its been 'paralyzed', as you put it. As soon as you get through facing those ghosts of the past, you'll be a different person and big C won't have a chance.

F.
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Unread 03-29-2006, 10:12 AM
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I finally figured out what moon with the cross underneath it is (duh! so obvious now).

I have discovered that my BML (in Aries) is conjunct with my aries asc but sits in the 12th house and is opposed my Libran moon in the 7th. WTF does all that mean? (It is also sextiling my mars in the third and neptune in 8th).

I was reading that BML is about unifinished achievements in desires and it is a sexual weapon used by women. For a man, it is the woman that drives him over the edge.

I noticed that if I go back and look at previous charts afew years ago, that at the moment transiting mars passed over my BML, I started developing a few impure thoughts about someone. It turns out the person
that I was impurely thinking about had their BML passed over by transiting venus.
I think I finally might have revealed a missing link in my chart!

Can someone help this novice?
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  #18  
Unread 03-29-2006, 09:58 PM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Originally Posted by 23
I have discovered that my BML (in Aries) is conjunct with my aries asc but sits in the 12th house and is opposed my Libran moon in the 7th. WTF does all that mean? (It is also sextiling my mars in the third and neptune in 8th).

I was reading that BML is about unifinished achievements in desires and it is a sexual weapon used by women. For a man, it is the woman that drives him over the edge.

I noticed that if I go back and look at previous charts afew years ago, that at the moment transiting mars passed over my BML, I started developing a few impure thoughts about someone. It turns out the person
that I was impurely thinking about had their BML passed over by transiting venus.
I think I finally might have revealed a missing link in my chart!

Can someone help this novice?
No proof! Just going from study charts.
Aries is the sign of 'I am. I exist.' Put BML in the sign and it seems to show deep feelings regarding how one feels about the truth of that statement. Some people feel as if they are 'nothing', no one, don't exist or are not treated as a individual in their own right; others feel a strong sense of asserting who they are....especially by their actions, which is shown through the planets BML aspects.
With BML in soft aspect to Mars the sexual attraction is strong. A woman 'effuses' the famous feminine instincts that gave Lilith the bad name to begin with She's provocative, lusty, uses her wiles to lure men to do what she desires of them. The 'boss lady'. A male with BML in Aries can often feel emasculated by a stronger feminine force that makes him feel 'less than a man'.
With Neptune, plus BML in the 12th house, one feels the potency of the Siren or Cinderella, the sinner or saint, the chameleon or charade player, one who can take on any role or guise. It attracts the mystique and elusive quality of a Neptune in the 8th house. A person can easily 'take one out of one's self', lose all sense of their reality, be unaware of what they are letting themselves in for. The cloud 9 experience, unless Neptune is harshly aspected through another planet.
With BML opposing Moon in Libra, the 'what about me' instead of 'what about you' is very apparent. 'Me'may never get a look in. There are usually issues with the female parent; a sense of abandonment can prevail.

Such aspects have been seen in those who choose a nursing/healing profession.
On a higher and spiritual level, BML in the aspects mentioned can suggest a natural medium or someone who feels dedicated to 'do' something for, and help mankind as a whole.

F.
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Unread 03-30-2006, 09:28 AM
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Frisiangal - thanks for your all help.

I made a few mistakes though. I meant to say that BML is opposed pluto in libra instead of moon ops:

I read last night that the orb taken for BML aspects is 3 degrees, which unfortunately knocks out my asc (5 deg) and mars (5 deg). Oh well.

Otherwise, I've used a bit of BML and Neptune in my younger days
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Unread 03-30-2006, 12:01 PM
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[quote="23"]
Quote:
I made a few mistakes though. I meant to say that BML is opposed pluto in libra instead of moon ops:
And did you reach a moment when you had to find the inner courage to emotionally turn away from a situation in order to survive? BML-Pluto has seemed to show the 'soul-mate' feeling that evaporates into nothing, the 'other' presenting a reflection of that which is seemingly lacking or missing in one's self. But the emotional hold is so strong; sometimes willing (someone) to die is the fight Lilith takes on in discovering how important one's self is.


Quote:
I read last night that the orb taken for BML aspects is 3 degrees, which unfortunately knocks out my asc (5 deg) and mars (5 deg). Oh well.
I've been studying BML for almost 7 years, using a maximum 6 degree orb for major aspects, 3 degr. for inconjunct/quincunx and 1.30 degr. for the minor aspects. I've found them to work. 3 degree orbs will definitely show up, IMO.


Quote:
Otherwise, I've used a bit of BML and Neptune in my younger days
Pluto in Libra and you're talking of 'younger days? Grief....that makes me ANCIENT '

F.
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Unread 03-30-2006, 04:40 PM
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Hi Frisiangal,

I'm hoping to call on your expertise to read my BML at 11Aq23 conjunct Chiron at 8Aq15 conjunct my Ascendant at 14Aq17. These oppose Uranus at 6Leo36rx in the 6th house.

I really am not sure how to intepret these connections and am hoping your experience could shed some light.

Kite
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Unread 03-31-2006, 07:34 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kite
Hi Frisiangal,

I'm hoping to call on your expertise to read my BML at 11Aq23 conjunct Chiron at 8Aq15 conjunct my Ascendant at 14Aq17. These oppose Uranus at 6Leo36rx in the 6th house.

I really am not sure how to intepret these connections and am hoping your experience could shed some light.

Kite
Hi Kite,
Just to say I've seen this and will get back to you . I'm a bit pressed for time now and finding the right words is important.

C.
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Unread 03-31-2006, 01:46 PM
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Frisiangel - re pluto - sounds like I have been there....
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Unread 04-01-2006, 05:33 AM
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Oh boy... I never looked at Lilith before -- and I don't quite understand BML (black moon Lilith) and Dark moon Lilith... but I ran my chart through Astrodients again and found that Lilith sits at 8 deg 35 of Aquaius, conj, Chiron at 7deg02 Aq and my ascendent 6deg59 Aq -- all forming the first arm of a fixed grand cross (Uranus 6deg59 Leo, Moon 4deg22 Taurus, Neptune 1deg02 Scorpio).

Ayiyiyi! I've had some extraordinary physical manifestations in the past two years -- briefly (extreme psoriasis causing major hair loss, nail distortion, psoriasis on th soles of my feet, red skin -- responding well to homeopathy; then developed a strange lung thing last August, still undiagnosed)
How does Lilith fit in with all of this?

It seems that the deeper I go in astrology... the deeper I get....
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Unread 04-01-2006, 09:01 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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[quote="Kite"],
Quote:
my BML at 11Aq23 conjunct Chiron at 8Aq15 conjunct my Ascendant at 14Aq17. These oppose Uranus at 6Leo36rx in the 6th house.
Hi Kite,
I have decided to use simple astrological signatures rather than go into deep depths without knowing the other themes in the chart that add their focus to the whole. With Aquarius rising and Uranus in the opposing sign, it's possible that you could associate the BML-CH conjunction as part of that. I wonder if you will experience that there can be a difference.

Aquarius is the freedom of spirit of, and through independent thought.
12th house is the intangibility of, and release from influence physical matter.
Chiron is realisation of the inner pain as a result of physical events.
BML *appears* ( read that in several ways!) to relate to non-existence and/or non- manifestation of a first nature ACTIVE FELING, as a result of denial by self.
Uranus is the power of reform through the changing of out-dated modes.
Leo is individual Self's motivation, as expressed through the Sun.
6th house is employment of Self, 'working' upon one's self perfection; house of imperfection of self = physical complaint.

Aquarius rising would provide the idea of someone who *IS* ( 1st house 'I am') a totally independent person, free as a bird, and in complete ease of thought, mind, spirit and soul. But, IMO, if the function of Uranus does not unchain the individual from all links with events that keep one tied to the physical past, as per Saturn, Aquarius rising cannot indicate one who is totally free. Uranus in Leo is retrograde in a FIXED sign. Fixed patterns of expression have difficulty separating, breaking down and re-forming themselves into something else that is not 'self-centred'. The 6th house is under the horizon; it is still a personal house, dealing with employment of Self's possibilities and not with or of others. What can a person experience when the personal ideas are not greeted with the same enthusiasm? We all know what happens with 6th house planets if not used in the manner of their intent. Uranus might work inwards and show itself as a stress, strain and breakdown factor, let alone rhythmic disturbances around the heart region, a hernia, or circulation problems

This is what I consider BML to signify in the aspect mentioned.
There is a deep-seated longing to break free of old patterns and FEEL the total freedom and independence of thought that Aquarius offers, no matter what other people say, do, think or feel, rather than remain dependent upon them. BML appears to feel the most comfortable in Uranus because, in its disconnection with the automatic feeling response, as per Moon, it can totally relate to Aquarius's detachment from emotional bonding and does not, therefore, have to act other than it is in order to feel accepted by anyone, feel part of something. BML in Aquarius does not feel this dire need to belong anywhere. It breaks free to feel free. In the 12th house there is the lesson regarding submission. BML has the greatest difficulty submitting to anyone or anything.
Chiron in Aquarius, however, experiences the inner pain of BEING different to everyone else, of being separated from them in some way, yet this major step towards individuality can be a reason for personal suffering if in the 12th house. BML conjunct Chiron can then submit to this pain, turn against everything Aquarius stands for. It takes on a 12th house guise, plays a role at which it is expert, in the form of the disgraced and abandoned outcast, which create the self-inflicted demons and gives them a reality in the form of regrets and denials that this and that never happened and how things could have been but never were, blaming itself for events that occured...or that didn't. The two together may choose a way of escaping or fleeing the pain experienced and have nothing to do with anyone close, living as a hermit or recluse. This BML doesn't allow itself to see that such would have kept it in bondage to a particular way of life instead of releasing it from it to become the individual it wants to be.

I was taught that Moon is the habitual of what one was, Ascendant rising is how one is now in order to become what the Sun wants to be

Once Chiron brings BML's pain to the surface through the opposing sign Leo, and the individual accepts and undergoes the healing process, Uranus can provide the change that is necessary to move forward into a future released of the past. Neptune and Pluto do their bit as well in bringing about the transition and transformation. It's then that the 'higher' qualities within BML and Chiron, that were always there from the beginning, manifest. In true 12th house fashion they can work their special kind of magic.

Hope this may have rung some bells.

C.
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