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Unread 09-23-2016, 03:39 AM
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Mars in Pisces

Would a Mars in Pisces pursue what it wants by lying (one of the ways, anyway) and would this propensity be lessened, or maximized by trining Pluto?

*disclaimer: yes, yes, the chart matters, now back to Mars in Pisces.😄

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Unread 09-23-2016, 05:21 AM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

I have this too, and no I don't think that this is necessary. Other points in the chart will have to be checked, and just this placement is not enough to make a judgement.

Please post the chart if you would like to know more
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Unread 09-23-2016, 08:48 AM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

In general, Mars in Pisces can be kind of 'squishy' when it comes to truthfulness. Not saying they are liars. Just saying that sometimes they can rationalize things in such a way that the 'ends justify the means'.... if they feel the need to.

My friend, who has Mars in Pisces, conjunct her Moon, in the 2nd, SOMETIMES tells a 'flexible' version of events, when she feels the need to alter things, to get her way.

My uncle was a 'big fat liar' ---lol....he called them whoppers. He exaggerated everything but told a great story. He had Mars in Pisces in the 1st.

Mars trine Pluto would hopefully give the native a strong sense of morals and ethics. Because sometimes, Mars in Pisces can be aq tad bit 'two faced.' They tend to 'go with the flow', and can be kind of indirect and haphazard. So they find themselves sometimes stuck in the middle and being supportive of two opposing people/situations at the same time.

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Unread 09-23-2016, 10:29 AM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

I have a friend with Mars in Pisces and he doesn't deal with conflict very well - it's like he goes way out of his way to avoid it at all costs. He also will conveniently omit information so that is suits him in an effort to avoid conflict. My friend has Mars in Scorpio and is dating him, so she directly forces him to come clean. I guess it depends on the Mars placement dealing with the person, because as a Mars in Libra person I would not be able to deal with leaving out information.. that is what I call lying by omission!
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Unread 09-23-2016, 10:31 AM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

Mars in Pisces wants to escape from conflicts example my mother with mars Pisces and Sun/Neptune. After a conflict or feud, they retreat to their own world.
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Unread 09-23-2016, 12:17 PM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

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Originally Posted by sethi View Post
I have this too, and no I don't think that this is necessary. Other points in the chart will have to be checked, and just this placement is not enough to make a judgement.

Please post the chart if you would like to know more
The chart has an unknown birth time, so the houses are useless but here it is!

I looked for aspects to Neptune because I find that often the case in people I catch lying, as much as I hate aspect stereotypes, but there aren't any. Sag Sun, Aries Moon and Venus in Scorpio I figure this person is either a very bad exaggerator or incredibly blunt.
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Unread 09-23-2016, 12:21 PM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

Saggitarius can also be a liar to avoid responsibilities.
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Unread 09-23-2016, 12:22 PM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

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Originally Posted by LovelyMissAries View Post
The chart has an unknown birth time, so the houses are useless but here it is!

I looked for aspects to Neptune because I find that often the case in people I catch lying, as much as I hate aspect stereotypes, but there aren't any. Sag Sun, Aries Moon and Venus in Scorpio I figure this person is either a very bad exaggerator or incredibly blunt.
Why do you say they are an exaggerator? I don't see that in the chart. I see Mars square Mercury and think they may be argumentative, but then there is also the square from Saturn, which could serve positively in terms of maybe making them think before they act in the heat of the moment (I have this placement and it's helpful at times). With Mars in Pisces in the 12th but conjunct the ascendant, I think there may be unexpected bursts of anger. I'm always weary of people with Mars in the 12th - from my experience they have always been people who are never quite aware of their anger and it does seem to come out of left field as far as I have observed or have been on the receiving end of. And really like any planet in the 12th, I think the native is unaware of the energy. My husband and sister have active 12th houses and I sometimes think they both are unaware or want to ignore certain aspects of themselves. But I'm not as experienced as some people here, so that is just my take!

But, you do have to look at the whole chart, really. My husband has his Sun in Pisces, Moon in Aquarius and his Mars in Cancer - he is more dramatic than me. Not dramatic on a daily basis, but if he is offended, aggravated/mad or you hurt his feelings he puts on this big production. I think that's really just Mars acting and nothing more, because other than that he really doesn't like to dwell on things (his moon). Mars will really show you how the person will behave in various scenarios.
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Unread 09-23-2016, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anjelik View Post
Why do you say they are an exaggerator? I don't see that in the chart. I see Mars square Mercury and think they may be argumentative, but then there is also the square from Saturn, which could serve positively in terms of maybe making them think before they act in the heat of the moment (I have this placement and it's helpful at times). With Mars in Pisces in the 12th but conjunct the ascendant, I think there may be unexpected bursts of anger. I'm always weary of people with Mars in the 12th - from my experience they have always been people who are never quite aware of their anger and it does seem to come out of left field as far as I have observed or have been on the receiving end of. And really like any planet in the 12th, I think the native is unaware of the energy. My husband and sister have active 12th houses and I sometimes think they both are unaware or want to ignore certain aspects of themselves. But I'm not as experienced as some people here, so that is just my take!
Good thoughts Anjelik! I only said exaggerayor because of the signs, not really because of their behavior. Sun and Moon in fire? Probably a propensity to be dramatic.

Also the houses are inconsequential here because the birth time is not correct, buuuut - I actually have Mars in the 12th personally! I'm aware of my anger but there never seems to be an appropriate time to express it. Additionally I agree with you about being unaware of the energy. My whole life I have had numerous occasions of people telling me they could tell right away I wasn't someone they wanted to cross...which is weird because I've never flipped out on anyone before, at least not to my full extent.
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Unread 09-23-2016, 03:35 PM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

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Originally Posted by LovelyMissAries View Post
Good thoughts Anjelik! I only said exaggerayor because of the signs, not really because of their behavior. Sun and Moon in fire? Probably a propensity to be dramatic.

Also the houses are inconsequential here because the birth time is not correct, buuuut - I actually have Mars in the 12th personally! I'm aware of my anger but there never seems to be an appropriate time to express it. Additionally I agree with you about being unaware of the energy. My whole life I have had numerous occasions of people telling me they could tell right away I wasn't someone they wanted to cross...which is weird because I've never flipped out on anyone before, at least not to my full extent.
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Originally Posted by LovelyMissAries View Post
Good thoughts Anjelik! I only said exaggerayor because of the signs, not really because of their behavior. Sun and Moon in fire? Probably a propensity to be dramatic.

Also the houses are inconsequential here because the birth time is not correct, buuuut - I actually have Mars in the 12th personally! I'm aware of my anger but there never seems to be an appropriate time to express it. Additionally I agree with you about being unaware of the energy. My whole life I have had numerous occasions of people telling me they could tell right away I wasn't someone they wanted to cross...which is weird because I've never flipped out on anyone before, at least not to my full extent.
I disagree with Sun and Moon in fire equating to dramatic. I have a friend who has Sun in Aries and Moon in Leo and I wouldn't necessarily say she is anymore dramatic than me who has her Sun in Pisces and Moon in Gemini. I think an Aries Moon is just matter of fact and not a dweller of things. I think they can move on from things emotionally pretty quickly, because I am not even sure how emotional they really are. Sag Sun people tend to be pretty diplomatic in my opinion, I don't really see them as dramatic either. I really do think water signs are the worst when it comes to drama.. everything is like the world is ending!
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Unread 09-23-2016, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anjelik View Post
I disagree with Sun and Moon in fire equating to dramatic. I have a friend who has Sun in Aries and Moon in Leo and I wouldn't necessarily say she is anymore dramatic than me who has her Sun in Pisces and Moon in Gemini. I think an Aries Moon is just matter of fact and not a dweller of things. I think they can move on from things emotionally pretty quickly, because I am not even sure how emotional they really are. Sag Sun people tend to be pretty diplomatic in my opinion, I don't really see them as dramatic either. I really do think water signs are the worst when it comes to drama.. everything is like the world is ending!
Agreed about the water signs! Leo Moon would be diff. than Aries because of the fixed quality. Maybe I shoudl clarify what I mean by "dramatic" which is going from 0-60 quickly, BUT what comes up must come down so they can relax just as easy. Suppose it's a matter of opinion and perspective.
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Unread 09-24-2016, 07:37 PM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

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Originally Posted by LovelyMissAries View Post
Agreed about the water signs! Leo Moon would be diff. than Aries because of the fixed quality. Maybe I shoudl clarify what I mean by "dramatic" which is going from 0-60 quickly, BUT what comes up must come down so they can relax just as easy. Suppose it's a matter of opinion and perspective.
Yes, Aries Moon can get fired up pretty easily then in a few hours or minutes they're over it.

You're looking at Mars in Pisces only when there is a Sag stellium and mutable predominance, showing someone who will shift and adapt to circumstances as it suits them, and stretching the truth could be a part of that, depending on their chart and morals.
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Unread 09-24-2016, 09:48 PM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

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Yes, Aries Moon can get fired up pretty easily then in a few hours or minutes they're over it.

You're looking at Mars in Pisces only when there is a Sag stellium and mutable predominance, showing someone who will shift and adapt to circumstances as it suits them, and stretching the truth could be a part of that, depending on their chart and morals.
I posted the chart above, but the houses are useless just as a precaution. If there's a Sag stellium then would the squares promote honesty, or less desirable challenges? (It's a Sag Sun btw, so Sun square Mars for starters - wouldn't that be like an honorary Aries?)
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Unread 09-24-2016, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelyMissAries View Post
I posted the chart above, but the houses are useless just as a precaution. If there's a Sag stellium then would the squares promote honesty, or less desirable challenges? (It's a Sag Sun btw, so Sun square Mars for starters - wouldn't that be like an honorary Aries?)
I know the houses are off. Squares in the natal tend to manifest more challengingly until a person can figure out a way to channel them positively. If they ever do...The Sag Sun square Jupiter wouldn't necessarily be dishonest but definitely believing and promising more than it can deliver

He's already an Aries, Aries Moon
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Unread 09-25-2016, 12:41 AM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

Thanks Sibilyne! Something that just crossed my mind is my own Mars in the 12th house and how I'm sensitive to criticism... when someone disagrees with my viewpoints I then feel like it's not okay to express myself and it leads to resentment (that part isn't for discussion but more to make a pathway for part II) Part II: If Mars in the 12th is akin to Mars in the Pisces, then is it fair to say Mars in Pisces seeks approval from others vs. other Mars placements?
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Unread 09-25-2016, 03:06 AM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

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Originally Posted by LovelyMissAries View Post
Would a Mars in Pisces pursue what it wants by lying (one of the ways, anyway) and would this propensity be lessened, or maximized by trining Pluto?

*disclaimer: yes, yes, the chart matters, now back to Mars in Pisces.😄
Thanks a lot, dear. I have Mars in Pisces and I do my best to be honest.

This is a real misunderstanding of astrology. Mercury rules liars, not Mars.
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Unread 09-25-2016, 04:39 AM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

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Thanks a lot, dear. I have Mars in Pisces and I do my best to be honest.

This is a real misunderstanding of astrology. Mercury rules liars, not Mars.
Lol.

You did see I said "pursues" right?

Pisces CAN BE deceiving (not always) or at least unclear, so if the way one does things is unclear - is that not also lying, even if it's not verbal (Mercury)?
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Unread 09-25-2016, 07:55 AM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

What you said was, "pursues what it wants by lying."

This means you associate Pisces with lying. Tell that to all of your Pisces friends, and see how many you retain. This is just bad astrology.

Again, Mercury rules liars. If you found something like a Mercury square Pisces Mars, that might combine "pursuit" with "lying." But Mars on its own, no.

If we use key words, a planet in Pisces tends to be emotionally adaptable. (water, mutable.) A Pisces Mars, consequently, is less likely to "pursue what it wants" (a so-so definition of Mars) than most other signs.

I think you're conflating Pisces, Neptune, and the 12th house. Neptune does not deal in reality, but it is not thereby necessarily deceptive. The 12th house traditionally includes secret enemies and misfortunes of various sorts, so there is kind of a connection with lying there. But a sign is not a house is not a planet.
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Unread 09-25-2016, 08:26 AM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

Hi,
I have mars in pisces square neptune and im more likely to omit truth or not let someone know Im not happy with a relationship until the last second before I bail. I think lying to get what you want takes ruthlessness. Maybe people can start keeping an eye on those up and coming in the next generation with Capricorn plutos in challenging aspects with mercury
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Unread 09-25-2016, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
What you said was, "pursues what it wants by lying."

This means you associate Pisces with lying. Tell that to all of your Pisces friends, and see how many you retain. This is just bad astrology.
So, because you don't agree with my interpretation of a *facet* of a sign - that's bad astrology? Interesting.

He does have Mercury square Mars in Pisces, thank you for pointing that out!
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Unread 09-25-2016, 06:23 PM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

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Originally Posted by LovelyMissAries View Post
Thanks Sibilyne! Something that just crossed my mind is my own Mars in the 12th house and how I'm sensitive to criticism... when someone disagrees with my viewpoints I then feel like it's not okay to express myself and it leads to resentment (that part isn't for discussion but more to make a pathway for part II) Part II: If Mars in the 12th is akin to Mars in the Pisces, then is it fair to say Mars in Pisces seeks approval from others vs. other Mars placements?
Well, Mars in 12th isn't akin to Mars in Pisces. You might notice some similarities with houses and signs but if I were you I wouldn't start equating them wholesale because you'll start coming to erroneous conclusions, then confusing yourself, then frustrating yourself when reality doesn't fit your interpretations, etc.

Mars in Pisces may or may not seek approval from others, it depends. If Mars is rising in the 1st then the person likes to make their own decisions and may even be rash and headstrong, not waiting for others to approve and not caring if they ever do. Similarly with Mars culminating/10th; they will want to forge their own path and won't want others directing them, whether directly or indirectly. Mars conjunct Jupiter, like this person has, believes in the effectiveness of their own actions. All of this is generally speaking of course. We don't know what this person's chart looks like beyond placements but from those alone I'd say they are much more individualistic and independent.
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Unread 09-25-2016, 09:07 PM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

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Originally Posted by LovelyMissAries View Post
So, because you don't agree with my interpretation of a *facet* of a sign - that's bad astrology? Interesting.

He does have Mercury square Mars in Pisces, thank you for pointing that out!
LMA, it's not just me who would disagree with your interpretation. If you like I can quote you delineations of Pisces Mars from highly respected professional astrologers.

To start with one, Robert Hand, Planets in Youth says of Mars in Pisces, that the natives are sensitive, tend to be low-energy, need a lot of sleep, find it hard to be self-assertive, get uncomfortable around dominant people, and tend to act unselfishly.

The closest he comes to "lying" is in saying that Mars in Pisces people seek to avoid conflict, and so may do things without telling people. This doesn't necessarily mean they're lying: they may simply not disclose what the dominant person wants to know.

If you think a Pisces Mars person isn't straight with you, look inward to see whether, from his perspective, you might be described as trying to dominate him.

I've got other delineations from my book collection, if you're interested.

Someone very much in the news just now, Donald Trump, also has Mercury square Neptune. See what you think about his accuracy in communication.
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Unread 09-25-2016, 09:13 PM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

LMA, you'd also want to see what else is going on with this person's Mars. If it's at a late degree and conjunct the sun in early Aries, for example, that would strengthen it. If it's trine Pluto in Scorpio, that would strengthen it. A sextile from Jupiter with that Mercury square might encourage him to exaggerate the truth.

My natal Mars is opposed by Saturn in Virgo. I learned at a young age that there were punishing consequences for lying, and I've never felt comfortable about it.

Mars is not only "what you pursue," but it can be spontaneous anger, athleticism, or serving in the military.
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Unread 09-25-2016, 10:05 PM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

Among the keyword meanings for Pisces are things like: 'EVASIVE', NEBULOUS, VACILLATION.

I would say that Mars in Pisces can be seen as dishonest at times, in terms of not being direct or clear. Also by things be being hidden, and lying by 'omission' of facts.

I know several Mars in Pisces natives and a few are kind of shady when it comes to total honesty and forthrightness. They will actively shade the truth, and offer up denials and alibis for their close friends/loved ones, because of their unconditional love pacts perhaps.
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Unread 09-25-2016, 10:53 PM
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Re: Mars in Pisces

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
LMA, it's not just me who would disagree with your interpretation. If you like I can quote you delineations of Pisces Mars from highly respected professional astrologers.

To start with one, Robert Hand, Planets in Youth says of Mars in Pisces, that the natives are sensitive, tend to be low-energy, need a lot of sleep, find it hard to be self-assertive, get uncomfortable around dominant people, and tend to act unselfishly.

The closest he comes to "lying" is in saying that Mars in Pisces people seek to avoid conflict, and so may do things without telling people. This doesn't necessarily mean they're lying: they may simply not disclose what the dominant person wants to know.

If you think a Pisces Mars person isn't straight with you, look inward to see whether, from his perspective, you might be described as trying to dominate him.

I've got other delineations from my book collection, if you're interested.

Someone very much in the news just now, Donald Trump, also has Mercury square Neptune. See what you think about his accuracy in communication.
Sigh. I feel like my entire point is getting missed, so I'll try again:

Yes, I'm sure there are other sources to back up your beliefs just as I could probably find sources to back up mine. I'm not saying Pisces is onlya liar and always will be. That's just plain silly!

You said I was conflating the meanings behind Neptune, Mars in the 12th house, and Mars in Pisces but Robert Hand's interpretation of Mars in Pisces is parallel to what I've read about Mars in the 12th house, so where is the problem in that regard? Their expression (Mars in the 12th and Mars in Pisces) seems pretty interchangeable.

I understand what you're saying about Mars in Pisces shrinking away from someone who is aggressive. I have Mars in the 12th, I react the same way to people who come on too strong. That very reason is why I'm sensitive to how I come off to people I'm interested in getting to know better. That, plus this person's reactions to me lead me to believe I am not "dominating" him in any fashion. A further side note would be that I mentioned his Mars aspecting Pluto and how that made a difference, but so far we've been stuck on this.

The crux of this discussion is figuring out what constitutes as "lying". You don't see omission as dishonest - I do, and therein lies an impasse.
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