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Medical Astrology Astrological diagnoses and other health issues are discussed here. Given that there are so many outer and inner influences on one's health (alimentation, sports, medication, past medical antecedents, state of mind, etc.), an astrological diagnosis is only one of many things to consider when determining your healthiness.


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  #1  
Unread 02-09-2006, 04:25 AM
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GAY ASTROLOGY

What are the astrological aspects for gay men or for being gay?

I'm curious as to what the strongest planet is involved - Uranus attributes? My gay friends vary and are all in happy relationships and I wonder what is the most significant factor with straight couples and gay couples. Or gay astrological attributes in general if I may ask.

Thanks to anyone who can share their knowledge, ideas etc.

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Unread 02-09-2006, 05:01 AM
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I did quite a bit of searching, but I finally found it...an article I had read a while ago about homosexuality in a personal chart (it's the second question after the introduction). I'm not sure if you will find this Q&A helpful, but it is the only thing I have encountered about the subject in my studies thus far. Good luck!

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Unread 02-09-2006, 09:00 AM
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Another question

Thanks for your comments Aquarian Maverick and the link. I hoped to not generalise on this topic but Astrology can pin point on so much but with sexual orientation it seems vague as everyone has free-will etc. But I was wondering if any definite planetary aspects stand out. Madonna keeps re-inventing herself with her stellium planets in Leo and strong Uranus. David Bowie seemed to have calmed down a bit etc. but their history both incl. bi + multi + asexual elements. Has anyone collected gay/sexual orientation astrological data to compare notes? Elton John's + his partner's?

The other question is: Is child abuse a collective occurence? I have heard so much news in recent years and its disturbing what these children are being born into. Has anyone done charts with abused children aspects? What about **** charts + sex offenders? What type of responsible adults these children will become? Mental health issues will also come more to the fore.Has anyone collected astrological data/studies on these issues too?

I'm a Scorp (aquarian moon, pisces ascendant) can you guess?
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Unread 02-09-2006, 04:33 PM
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Wow, that's a lot of questions!

I haven't personally conducted any such studies, but I believe that I once encountered a site that compared the charts of control group of individuals with the charts of convicted serial killers to note any major differences. I believe that having an unusual number of planets in the twelth house was one commonality, but I can't remember any of the others. I'll have to check through my favorite places list to see if I saved the link...wish me luck! :roll:

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Unread 02-09-2006, 11:24 PM
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My 2 cents

want to share with you guys my personal collection - I haven researched this topic for a while, and I have seen some charts with some general characteristics:

1). any nonharmonic aspect of Chiron and Venus (especially for those whose sun signs are at Aries or Libra) could bring the native 'unusual charm' and also the illusion of sex orientation as well. This aspect could also hurt the native. Some people who have this aspect said that they've had some unpleasant experience with the opposite sex when they were young and ever since felt shamed/disgusted to touch people of opposite sex...

and some other candidates in th roll:
2). Venus in a square to Uranus

strong urge for freedom. and then if the native has a conjunction of Mars/Venus - with that sexual need, it is very possible to become a gay/lesbian.

3). Venus in opposition to North node or Chiron
4). unaspected Juno

and we also have to check the seventh house/ruler and moon to get more info.

However,
nothing is certain even if there is a tendency shown in horoscope for a native to become a gay/lesbian. Transit is also very important. Most gays/lesbians were not born to be like that. Most of times, the inner hidden gene could be suddenly activated by external factors.


Bear with my English. I actually learned astrology in my mother language, not English. I found this website very interesting and would like to share/exchange experience and knowledge here with you guys.
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Unread 02-10-2006, 08:46 AM
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Gee thanks to both of AMaverick + Danny99. This will help me read up on related articles I have Libra friends with this bent (they're not gay + but attract alot of gay attention nonetheless) and as for the Aries friends I know, they don't mind the attention too from men + women. The freedom urge is a biggie for most people who have these aspects. Chiron + nodes are the tough one to find material about.
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Unread 02-11-2006, 03:05 PM
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Hmmm.

What astrological alignments reveal heterosexuality in the birth chart, or for that matter, whether one prefers white bread or brown?
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Unread 02-11-2006, 03:06 PM
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Seriously, where do we identify heterosexuality in the natal?
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Unread 02-11-2006, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco
Seriously, where do we identify heterosexuality in the natal?
don't understand...if the native is not a gay/les, a normal person would be a heterosexual, right?

if you were talking about love/marriage between two people from different races/nations, I would take a look at Juno. If Juno is placed in the natal 9th house or Sag, the partner could be from very different background or could be foreign.
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Unread 02-11-2006, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
If Juno is placed in the natal 9th house or Sag, the partner could be from very different background or could be foreign.
Ooh I had never heard of that before...thanks, Danny!

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Unread 02-11-2006, 08:03 PM
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Both Uranus and Neptune could affect one's sexual orientation as I heard. Especially when Mars or Venus in conjuntion/ opposition/ square with Uranus or Neptune. Or when either of the two outer planets lie in the 8th house.
However, if the aspects of Uranus/Neptune are forming ONLY with Venus instead of Mars, the individuals are perhaps attracted to the same sex spiritually rather than physically, and vice versa.

Usually, Uranian homosexuals have less fear to tell their sexual orientation in public, while Neptunians may hide their feelings towards homosexual love.

I've got a lesbian friend whose Uranus is in the 8th house sextile with Venus in the 10th. She tends to imagine and keep all her feelings in her heart rather than telling others for being too conscious of how others view on her.

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Unread 02-12-2006, 12:27 PM
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A friend once told me that strong Cancer emphasis in a natal chart can give a homosexual orientation. I don't know where he got that from but I did notice that people with strong cancer placements tend to be less homphobic than average.
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Unread 02-12-2006, 06:01 PM
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Did none of you read the link that Beth (AquaMav) provided?

My question still stands, but no one has attempted to answer it. What are the identifying factors of heterosexuality in the natal? What are the identifying factors in the natal as to whether a person will like olives or not? Where in the chart is it indicated whether the native is black, white or asian? Can you not find this? Then you cannot identify homosexuality either.

I am going to quote the link that Beth provided, because those of you that have actually bothered reading it obviously haven't taken it in. I don't mean to come across as impolite but this discussion is purely and utterly nonsensical - not to mention deeply homophobic.

I highlight the most relevant points:

Quote:
At this point in the history of the mind's evolution, ethics and personal freedom, my take is that it's a bad idea to pre-judge somebody by their chart. This goes for homosexuality or any other subject. That being said, astrologers often find ourselves having to read charts for information. But in the tradition of the Quaker religion, I like to stick to using the chart for the purpose of "advices and queries" whenever possible rather than for making judgments; it's a long way from one to the other. And if I have to interpret and really give an opinion, I often put a disclaimer up, which I usually state on this page as the, "Astrology is a story about you" statement, so that if the story doesn't work, you have a psychological exit hatch.

Judging someone homosexual with their chart is a good example of an especially non-harmless use of astrology. I believe that it's dangerous and unethical. Why judge when you can say to a person, "What do you want?" or "Where have you been lately?"

If you are the subject of the inquiry -- I don't know, I'm just covering that base -- I am here to remind you that it's fine, beautiful and excellent for you to be who you are.

I feel strongly that astrologers need to support people in creating their life the way they want it, and moreover, in being who they really are. We can afford to give them a boost in getting over their guilt and self-doubt. We can afford to see them as good and as essentially healthy -- and as essentially free. If we're going to make assumptions, these are the ones to make.

In attempting to say that someone is gay as a fact of their chart, we deny them the freedom to choose.

As regards sexual orientation, there is, I believe, a fundamental misunderstanding in the world. People are not generally not black or white entities, they don't usually fit into strict categories, and -- big surprise -- we change. For this and many other reasons, I don't honor the strict categorization of homosexuality by dint of astrology or anything else. Plenty of 'straight' people have had many experiences with those of their own gender; plenty of lesbian or gay people have had snuggly, sexy nights with the opposite sex. Some people are lesbian for 20 years and then decide they need some time with a man. Some gay men find themselves loving a woman.

As I get older and hear what people have to say, I am coming around to the thinking that the declaration of gay or lesbian is as much about a social need and a political statement as it is a statement of actual sexual orientation. Sexual orientation is a big part of the statement, but there are many other facets. Hence, the statement by a woman, "I have sex with my best [female] friend but I'm not a lesbian." I get it.

Most people have some notion of being turned on by same-sex desires, though often it's in fantasy form only. Unfortunately, within the gay community, movable sexual orientation or bisexuality in any form has had an extremely difficult time being recognized as legitimate. And often, many heterosexuals seem less-then-comfortable knowing that a person they associate with swings both ways, and there can be prejudices against this. So the whole discussion of bisexuality is basically held down about everywhere but the Bisexual Support Group.
Which is why you cannot identify homosexuality in the natal. Get over it!

Draco :x
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Unread 02-12-2006, 07:46 PM
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I agree with you, Draco...although an individual's natal chart may indicate a tendency for them to integrate different aspects of who they are into their personality, it has no power whatsoever in determining one's sexual orientation. I don't think it's morally right for a person to invade another's privacy by looking for this information in their chart, because inevitably the impression will stick with you...but that's just my opinion, and I suppose one can say the same thing about interpreting any aspect of someone's personality based on their astrological data.

Of course it is natural for us to be curious about different factors that may influence a person's life, especially if this person is a close friend or family member...but we must always be careful not to overstep our boundaries. I do not mean to imply that this has been done here because such behavior would be immature and will not get us anywhere.

We all have something that binds us together on this forum--our love for astrology. I fervently hope my message will not cause dissension among our ranks because this can be a truly wonderful opportunity for us all to examine the role astrology plays in our lives and how we use this gift to benefit ourselves and others. In fact, I am greatful that this subject came up--perhaps the universe has given us exactly what we need at the time.

I will leave everone (including myself) with this great quote to think about: "with great power comes great responsibility." It's from the first Spider Man movie, if you're curious

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Unread 02-12-2006, 08:19 PM
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Draco, I hope I correctly catch the sentiment of what you are trying to express when you write
_
Quote:
What astrological alignments reveal heterosexuality in the birth chart, or for that matter, whether one prefers white bread or brown?
and

Quote:
What are the identifying factors of heterosexuality in the natal? What are the identifying factors in the natal as to whether a person will like olives or not? Where in the chart is it indicated whether the native is black, white or asian? Can you not find this? Then you cannot identify homosexuality either.
I am guessing that in writing that you are attempting to bring a balanced light to the diiscussion and wake some readers away from assuming heterosexuality is simply the cosmic norm? Are you defending love and tolerance and openness and understanding? This is what I thought, but I'm not sure I totallly understood your post because it also seemed like you wanted to end all further inquiry on the matter on account of personal offense, which I don't share. I'd like to see the issue in greater depth instead of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater,". What are you saying? Get over intolerance or get over trying to understand the astrological factors that affect sexual experiences?

As I see it, there is more for us to examine and I'd like to see a greater study of this subject in astrology. My understanding of astrology is that it the birth chart is a visual map of Divine Intent. It shows us likely possibilities of experience, development, and fulfillment within the context of an Earthly experience, including the range of experiences regarding sexuality. If we examine not only planetary, sign and house energies and aspects, but also look at the masculine and feminine expressions of these energies as well, suddenly our little black and white world turns into this infinite dancing sea of spectral interplays. How gorgeous and LIVEABLE!

Does "get over it" refer to the fact that there are JUST TOO MANY factors to examine in a chart regarding sexuality and there is not one simple astrological formula or aspect that affects gender orientation? If so, I agree, but I would like to expand myself one step further here to say that instead of examining none because there are too many, ... I'd like to examine them all! I don't in any way think the discussion of this topic is "purely and utterly nonsensical - not to mention deeply homophobic," nor do I think we should just shoot down discussions that clearly have more to be revealed, just because the issue might be a little "touchy."

I am openly bisexual and have been for nearly my entire life. Except for pre-adolescence when I was discovering this about myself, I have never hidden my love for both men and women. I came out to my middle school, two different high schools, and from there, everywhere I went. Full spectrum love is what I've always called it, and I know that's where's it at. I'm also willing to embrace the challenges that come along with this orientation, because this is where I really work my magic. Being unapologeticly bisexual is an integral part of my purpose because It serves to chip away at the lines that tend to divide us from understanding. It turns enemies into learning experiences into friends. When looking at my chart, I see many many places that might indicate this kind of orientation:.

venus opoosition uranus
venus square ascendant
venus quincunx pluto
chiron conjunct venus
pluto in eight house libra
true node in eight house libra
moon in the fifth house gemini
jupiter in the fifth house cancer
lilith in the fifth house cancer

Many people I talk with on this issue feel that most humans are born with the potential to be at the very least, sexually curious regarding their same sex. But this does not mean they will ever have an experience in this department. A fleeting interest or fanatsy would obviously not be seen in a natal chart. Even if someone has an actual experience with an individual of the same sex, this might also be attiributed to normal human sexual discovery which would stilll lie outside the range of what might be concurred from examining a chart. But if someone comes into the world (as I did) with a clear knowledge that they are sexually oriented to their same sex, and then build a lifetime of learning and experiences around this issue, it would be pretty foolish to think this would not be visible in a natal chart. And if that were the case, I think we'd have to revamp our astrology, which is supposed to be the study of everything.

Exploration of this issue has further to teach.

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Unread 02-12-2006, 08:34 PM
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The rest of the article seemed to change direction:

Quote:
There is plenty of information that astrology can give us with regards to how someone expresses their sexuality, and what difficulties they might be having.

Sexual orientation is a unique expression of an original, individual person. So is an astrology chart. There is a relationship. In other words, there are not two or three sexual orientations -- such as gay, bi and straight; there is a sexual orientation for each person on the planet, because each expresses their sexuality individually. Astrology is an excellent tool to use to explore these unique expressions, because charts are so highly individualized, and because astrology acknowledges that every person has many expressions of male and female within them, which combine, mix and match in countless different expressions. But the action word is explore, rather than assess.

Astrologers know that every person possesses Sun and Moon; Venus and Mars; their sign, and their opposite (and opposite gender) sign.

This means we all have a male side and a female side. In fact, there are many male and many female aspects of each person, which blend in some rather interesting ways. In each person these energies are working together in some form or another, and they are struggling a bit harder for expression in life. At times, they may do more resisting than cooperating. And since each person's primary sexual relationship is to him or herself, I believe that all sexual expression emerges from a core of 'same sex' relating (i.e., oneself) relating, and develops from there.

There are many interesting questions surrounding sexual orientation, and sexual expression that can be taken to the chart, such as: what might be blocking someone from expressing themselves emotionally, sexually, or romantically? What were the early conditions? To what extent do they identify with either of their parents? What are the sexual role models pointed to in the chart, and what is the relationship to these? I suggest that any information be collected using both the chart and the client, with the client leading the way in the discussion and the chart applied very gently, as a guide to inquiry or a reflecting pool.


But, as so rightly pointed out by AquaMav on another thread:

Quote:
I would also like to explore on this forum ways for each of us to integrate both the masculine and feminine aspects of ourselves.
which is what astrology does - shows us where our potential is. Its not written in stone, we still have free will. It shouldn't show up homosexuality, only a difficulty in relating, perhaps. Its how we as mortals choose to work with these energies - that's the difficulty.

Take care

hel
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Unread 02-21-2006, 02:48 AM
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Sita,

Quote:
Does "get over it" refer to the fact that there are JUST TOO MANY factors to examine in a chart regarding sexuality and there is not one simple astrological formula or aspect that affects gender orientation?
Absolutely.

What do you mean by 'gender orientation'?

Quote:
I'd like to examine them all! I don't in any way think the discussion of this topic is "purely and utterly nonsensical - not to mention deeply homophobic
Well, it is comments such as this I consider to be homophobic, bearing in mind that when I say homophobic I do not necessarily mean a hatred of homosexuality but also a fear and ignorance of what it actually is:

M:

Quote:
Is child abuse a collective occurence?
I don't get the connection between this and homosexuality.

Quote:
What about **** charts + sex offenders?
This mystifies me even more. :?

Danny99:

Quote:
any nonharmonic aspect of Chiron and Venus (especially for those whose sun signs are at Aries or Libra) could bring the native 'unusual charm' and also the illusion of sex orientation as well.
Any non harmonic aspect of Chiron and Venus? It's just the symbolism that bothers me here. I don't use Chiron anyway, but he's the wounded healer right? So homosexuality is supposed to have something to do with wounded emotions/sexuality? Why?

Quote:
Venus in a square to Uranus
I have heard of this old chestnut before and it always puzzles me. Why the association of Venus square Uranus with male homosexuality. It's the symbolism again. So Uranus is that which is bizarre, perverse, weird, odd, outlandish - but why is homosexuality necessarily any of these things? Venus is sweet and delicate and sensitive, based upon the presumption that all male homosexuality is practised by effeminate and ineffectual men.

I wonder if the Spartans would have associated Venus with their sexuality?

The Venus square Uranus thing comes up time and time again and seems to be a reflection of the homophobic ignorance of the modern day Western world.

Quote:
the inner hidden gene
Now this is the one that really pisses me off! Gene? People who bang on about homosexual human behaviour being genetic do so because then they can see it as an us and them scenario. They can then dwell in the ignorant bliss of feeling that because they are not 'gay' they never would have been 'gay' because they don't have the 'gay gene'. They are 'straight' because they are 'genetically straight' and a 'gay' person would never have been like they are.

Sexuality is something you either express or don't, either way.

Quote:
a normal person would be a heterosexual
I don't even need to point out the homophobia in this!

Draco
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Unread 02-21-2006, 07:29 AM
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Sexuality in the chart

Draco,

You asked:
Quote:
What are the identifying factors of heterosexuality in the natal?
You ask an interesting astrological question which I have thought about for awhile. Below is something I posted on another list about this subject of sexual choice:

Quote:
To begin with, by sexual-biological function, men are active, and women are receptive. Although this is the way biology works, not everyone LIKES this sexual-biological arrangement.

For example, if a woman has Aries (active) modifying Venus (receptive), then she many not WANT to play a receptive role in a relationship. And, if she ALSO dislikes her own sexual-biological role, she may decide that another WOMAN (who is naturally sexually-biologically receptive) would be the best choice for a partner. If another woman ALSO disliked her sexual-biogical role, she could be a partner to the woman with Aries modifying Venus. While this woman would still be receptive according to traditional, sexual-biological standards, she would be defying her sexual-biological role because she would be with another WOMAN, instead of a man.

Similarly, if a man has Taurus (receptive) modifying Mars (active), then he many not WANT to play an active role in a relationship. And, if he ALSO dislikes his own sexual-biological role, he may decide
that another MAN (who is naturally sexually-biologically active) would be the best choice for a partner. If another man ALSO disliked his sexual-biogical role, he could be a partner to the man with Taurus modifying Mars. While this man would still be active according to traditional, sexual-biological standards, he would be defying his sexual-biological role because he would be with another MAN, instead of a woman.

To determine whether a person wants to rebel against their sexual-biological role, we look at how much the person prefers "structure" (Capricorn, Saturn, and the 10th house) as oppoosed to how much they
prefer "rebellion" (Aquarius, Uranus, and the 11th house). If a person prefers "structure," this is indicated by strong Capricorn, Saturn, or 10th house influences in their chart. If a person prefers "rebellion," this is indicated by strong Aquarius, Uranus, or 11h house influences in their chart.

Those who prefer "structure" will tend to like the traditional, sexual-biological role. Those who like "rebellion" will tend to like to rebel against the traditional, sexual-biological role. Of course, regardless of a person's impulses, it is up to them as to whether they choose to ACT on those impulses.

A few other thoughts:
Uranus (friends, also rebellion) square (energy needs to be combined with) Venus (relationships) indicates a person who rebels against traditional relatoinships. To me, this is a suitable description of homosexuality and/or lesbianism. Venus in astrology is partly the energy of relationships, regardless of what the sex of the person is.

The "hidden gene" comment was posted by someone who is self-admittedly not the best at communicating in English. They referred to transits and said, "Most of times, the inner hidden gene could be suddenly activated by external factors." Perhaps a better way to say this would have been, "Most of times, the inner hidden potential could be suddenly activated by external factors." This seems to make sense, particularly with the emphasis in the gay world on "coming out"...to making the hidden potential of homosexuality a visible reality to others. A transit could help to make this happen.

The person who posted about "child abuse" did not seem to be drawing a link between homosexuality and child abuse. They seemed to simply interested in sexual astrology. In fact, to make a distinction between the homosexuality and their next point they wrote "The other question" (i.e, another, separate question) before referring to child abuse issues.

Since being homosexual in a heterosexual world can be a challenge to many, associating homosexuality with a "wound" (i.e., Chiron) does not seem outside the realm of possibility. Besides, the person used the word "could", as in stating a possibility, not affirming a proven fact.

As mentioned above, the "normal" sexual behavior is heterosexual. The perpetuation of the human race is based on this concept. If the "normal" behavior was homosexual, there would be a LOT less people on this planet! As has been discussed, homosexuality seems to partly be a quest to be different from the norm in a sexual way.

From Wikkipedia:
Quote:
The term homophobia literally means a "fear of or contempt for homosexuality or homosexuals". It is derivable from the words homosexual and phobia (meaning "fear" or "panic" in Greek). The term itself is however often broadened to encompass other feelings such as aversion to, disagreement with, disapprobation of, disparagement of, or discrimination against homosexual people, their lifestyle, their sexual behavior, or culture [1] and is generally used to assert bigotry.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia

I don't think anybody who has posted meets the criteria of this defintion, particularly in using their comments to be bigots. In fact, one person claimed to be bisexual, i.e. part homosexual. The effort everyone has been making is to discuss a highly political, sensitive subject in astrological terms, so as to make it both more accessible and more understandable. This is the beauty of astrology, it can make all "people things" more understandable and accessible...for homosexuals and heterosexuals alike.

Looking at sexuality in astrology,

Tim
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Unread 02-25-2006, 01:49 AM
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Hi Tim,

I read your quote at the beginning of your article and I see what you mean. A woman for example who likes to be a dominatrix or a man who enjoys being tied up and whipped. :P (lol)

Quote:
This seems to make sense, particularly with the emphasis in the gay world on "coming out"...
I don't understand the late 20th century and current fashion in the world of this 'coming out' thing. To me it seems that if a person has not been successfully psychosexually conditioned by the Freud worshipping West into being 'straight' then they are encouraged to label themselves 'gay'. Thus the individual who has labelled themselves (or been labelled) as 'gay' then psychologically closes down to any thought or opportunity of engaging in sexual relations with the opposite sex, thoroughly assisted by the world around them. The same might be said of those who are 'straight'. (I await the merciless barage of venom from all and sundry :| )We are far too keen in the strange times we live in, of putting people into nice little antiseptic boxes with little sticky labels on them and then filing these away into neatly arranged cabinets in various rooms with well defined titles on the door.

Interestingly the ancients had no words in their vocabulary to define sexual orientation. There was no heterosexual/homosexual. Sex was sex. This is of interest to me - but then I'm Mars conjunct Uranus in Scorpio and NN on the 5th cusp. :twisted: So I'm something of a rebel against everything, hetero or homo, when it comes to sexual matters.

I understand what you mean though that a 'coming out' episode would probably be triggered by a transit. This would make sense.

I re-read the post, and the comment upon child abuse was not inferred to be something to do with sexuality, that was me jumping the gun (BANG!), as I am often prone to do. :roll:

Quote:
As mentioned above, the "normal" sexual behavior is heterosexual. The perpetuation of the human race is based on this concept. If the "normal" behavior was homosexual, there would be a LOT less people on this planet!
I would say that heterosexual behaviour is 'conventional' and definately 'fashionable', but it hasn't always been 'normal' to express heterosexual fondnesses exclusively. I agree that if everyone was 'homosexual' in the modern sense, there would be a LOT less people on the planet indeed.

The perpetuaton of the human race is not based on a concept of heterosexuality being normal, but based upon the fact that reproduction requires a male to inseminate a female.

If a man penetrates a woman anally, then this does not result in fertilisation. Such 'normal' sexual behaviour does not result in the perpetuation of the species, yet it is still heterosexual in concept.

Sorry to come across as crude in this example but I just mean to express that the survival of the human race is not based upon a concept of sexual convention but on the fact of a particular sexual act.

In the ancient world people were usually what we would label, as in our society of weights and measures we are so fond of, 'bi'sexual, or just 'sexual' as they would call it. There were not as many starving bellies in their world, there was not so tremendous a division between rich and poor because the population wasn't at critical mass and there wasn't a shortage of natural resources etc. etc. etc.

Anyway, perhaps I'm being a little too controversial for an astrology site, but then I am something of an anarchist, but with my natal strong Mars/Uranus conjunction it's my divine prerogative to stir things up a bit and leave the crumbling tatters of convention blazing in my wake (lol ). Put another way, my rebellion is something I have to work on in this life. :roll:

Looking at the nature of a person's sexual mores in the natal chart I would look to Venus and Mars, not to define who they fancy better out of men and women but to try and determine how they might go about sexual activity whatever the orientation.

Looking at Venus and Mars in the chart may reveal that one person is sexually frigid and uptight and rather embarrased about sex, and not particularly keen on it. Another may show that the native has a voracious sexual appetite, with of penchant for danger, thrill seeking and sado-masochism. Yet these observations would carry the same weight whether or not the native was male or female, orientating to males or to females, it would not reveal to whom they would apply these desires. Not unless we knew the sex and sexuality of the native beforehand.

In short, you can tell from a person's chart something about how they might express their sexuality, but not the direction in which it is orientated because the fundamentals of their sexual appetites will be the same whichever way it is directed.

That's just my current opinion, which I would hold until I see any compelling argument to the contrary.

Draco
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Unread 02-25-2006, 02:57 AM
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Great post Draco. There are as many reasons for sexual choice as there are for career choice. There are biological, psychological, spiritual, physical reasons and propensities in play and it is very situational. When someone is incarcerated for instance, all bets are off when it comes to sexual convention. Survival is the number one concern and we're not talking survival of the species here..we're talking about taking care of #1.

Certainly upbringing and challenges faced while growing up can play into situational as well as life choice decisions. Sure the chart can see some of this and as always, hindsight is 20/20 but to predict someone's life choice or situational choice is pretty near impossible.

I agree that Uranus/Mars aspects can mark someone who is unconventional in their sexual expression but isn't conventionality in the eye of the beholder as you so eloquently demonstrate in your post and reference to ancient times?

The reality is we all are tasked with integrating the male and female sides of ourselves. How we address that task is an individual choice and I imagine a very hit and miss proposition. Some will declare a permanent sexual orientation, others will live vicariously through that and others will persecute anything that challenges their own shadow.

I personally had to experiment in this area before I could settle into a life decision. Some of us must live a life of integrity which forces such an assesment and decision. Others can take the path of least resistance (look for grand trines without any squares or oppositions) and call themselves normal.

The chart can express many of these variables and aspects but it will never box an individual into one orientation or another. It can show sexual bravery, cowardice, awareness and lack of. It can show ability to attract, repel, hold onto and let go. It can show style and approach but it can't show how the imagination interacts with the person at hand.

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Unread 02-25-2006, 01:50 PM
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Hi all!

Perhaps "coming out" is also an aspect of the Sun coming into its own power for a person. The Sun's energy, no matter what the sign is, is beginning the self-empowerment, self-actualization process towards wholeness. Part of this "coming out" may be sexual in nature, but it may be coming out in other areas just as well.

For my own astrological work, I do not look for indicators of heterosexuality/homosexuality because I believe sexuality is too fluid of a concept to peg to any set of factors in the birth chart, even with transits and progressions figured into the mix. I do think that the way a person perceives and wants intimate contact may be strongly indicative in the chart but those indicators do not label a person "gay" or "straight." A person can receive intimate contact in many ways and all of them do not deal with sexuality or even human physical contact.

In my opinion, the culture here in the United States places too much emphasis on types of sexuality and whether they are "good" or "bad." Part of this may be due to lingering Puritan energies within the culture, part of it may be due where the American culture is in its maturation process. What I mean by this is that I think the American culture is still in late adolesence or perhaps early 20s and is still trying very hard to figure out what it is and is not, where it wants to fit in with the group and where it wants to stand away from the group, etc. Sexuality has been made a big part of that because for some it is the most visible indicator of where a person stands within the mainstream of the culture.

And I find it very sad that it is that way. By labeling and putting people in neat little boxes, we deny to them some of their Sun's energy of self-actualization and self-empowerment. This, in my opinion, is what astrology should fight against.

The only time I think that sexual orientation should enter into the discussion of a reading is if the client brings up the matter. If it opened by the client, then the astrologer can follow the energy of the client to determine how to proceed.

The only time I believe sexual orientation should matter in general discourse should be when a person is strongly attracted to another and wishes to have an intimate relationship with that person. Otherwise, a person's sexual orientation is nobody's business except that person and the people the person is the most intimate with.

Elianah
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Unread 02-25-2006, 05:00 PM
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sexual orientation and chart readings

Draco and Elianah,

Draco, you said:
Quote:
...you can tell from a person's chart something about how they might express their sexuality, but not the direction in which it is orientated because the fundamentals of their sexual appetites will be the same whichever way it is directed.
Elianha, you said:
Quote:
...a person's sexual orientation is nobody's business except that person and the people the person is the most intimate with.
I think these points sum up the sexual orientation in astrology issue very well. As someone said, "While others dance around and suppose, The secret sits in the middle and knows". It is interesting in the context of an astrological discussion to guess at how a person MIGHT astrologically be oriented toward one type of sexuality or another, but only the person themselves truly knows what it is in their lives that shaped their sexual choices. And this is something private and personal to the person...not open to larger discussion, unless the person brings up the sexual issue themselves.

I think this point can be expanded into a larger point about astrological interpretation. There are some astrologers who insist on diving into a person's private past, making statements to them about how they treated their mother, how their mother treated them, whether their family was alcoholic, how much child abuse they experienced, etc...all from simply looking at their chart. To me, this is like trying to guess a person's sexuality from the chart.

Yes, there are indications in any chart of potential childhood issues and how they might have manifested, but the details of this are private to the person, unless they choose to share them. Instead, the astrologer should focus on how the person is currently using their energies and to help them direct that energy usage along a more helpful, life affirming path. And if the client never mentions they had a traumatic childhood, the astrologer should not push to "discover" one.

I suggest helping the person with their current life problems and resisting the urge for astrological voyeurism.

Blending sexual astrological prying with personal astrological prying,

Tim
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Unread 02-25-2006, 05:30 PM
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Re: sexual orientation and chart readings

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsontc
Yes, there are indications in any chart of potential childhood issues and how they might have manifested, but the details of this are private to the person, unless they choose to share them. Instead, the astrologer should focus on how the person is currently using their energies and to help them direct that energy usage along a more helpful, life affirming path. And if the client never mentions they had a traumatic childhood, the astrologer should not push to "discover" one.
HEAR HEAR!

Elianah
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Unread 02-25-2006, 08:07 PM
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Absolutely!

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Unread 01-30-2007, 08:40 PM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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Re: GAY ASTROLOGY

I was reading on the web and found this article on Gemini and it discusses it's possible links to homosexuality. I had a look at Rock Hudson's chart but he doesn't have a Gemini stellium. I will post his chart later, out of interest.

On different sites I have read I have a Lesbian Moon, and a gay mars. But I am not a lesbian. (I have Moon in 7th - they must relate this to a relationship with a woman. I also have Mars in Aquarius - my sexuality is different from the norm.)

Link Below

http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/Agemini.htm

Last edited by Shining Ray; 01-30-2007 at 08:44 PM.
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