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  #1  
Unread 08-14-2018, 04:46 AM
kalenaradia kalenaradia is offline
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Chart Patterns

Hello,

I'm a professional Astrologer, but I feel a need to go back over the basics. Chart patterns was a certain area I struggled with a bit. Maybe you can help me here. I'd like to begin by identifying my own chart shape.

To me, it looks a lot like a locomotive shape. Solar Fire has me as a locomotive. Time Passages has me as a splash. I also see this as a bit of a bowl shape as well. Thoughts?

Thank you for your help!
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  #2  
Unread 08-14-2018, 05:18 AM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Chart Patterns

Chart patterns are one of my favorite topics of astrological discussion.

Ok, I can say definitively that you are NOT a Splash, nor a Bowl.



THE SPLASH
As indicated by its name, this planetary pattern displays an even scattering of the ten planets throughout the Zodiac (from Mercury to Pluto, and the luminaries, namely the Sun and the Moon). There is continuity in the planets' distribution. The maximum distance between any two planets is of three signs, or 90 degrees.



You only have one planet in the lower hemisphere. It doesn't fit with the above definition.^^^




THE BOWL
All the planets are gathered within a hemisphere, or bowl, i.e. 180 degrees, or a wide half of the circle (up to a maximum of 190 degrees).


You don't have everything within 180 degrees...^^^^




OKAY, so what do you have. I can make a case for Locomotive OR Bucket[Funnel]


the LOCOMOTIVE, which is actually a chart with all the planets gathered on a large part of the Zodiac (quite the contrary of the BUNDLE), and where there is an empty space of 120 degrees. In this pattern, possibly the most frequent one in asymmetric charts, two planets are emphasized: the planet leading the locomotive in the natural order of the signs (counterclockwise), which plays the role of the leader and somehow pulls the personality.



OK, technically, your chart COULD fit within this definition. The Moon/Jupiter trine COULD be seen as the Locomotive leading and trailing planet.

However, The Moon is a singleton, being the only planet below the horizon. And there is a big empty space between the Moon and Pluto. So it does not really feel like a true locomotive, in which there is a cohesive, integrated train, using up 2/3 of the zodiac.



I would say you have a Bucket, with the singleton Moon as the handle.

The BUCKET, or the FUNNEL, has all the planets posited in one part of the Zodiac, with the exception of one planet or a conjunction of planets on the opposite side and isolated.



THE BUCKET or THE FUNNEL
In this quite frequent pattern, like in the preceding pattern, all the planets are gathered in one hemisphere, i.e. within a maximum of 190 degrees, but with a planet or a conjunction of planets posited apart from the main group. A minimum distance of 30 degrees, and preferably of 60 degrees, must separate the isolated planet/conjunction from the main group.

In this bucket pattern as in the bowl pattern, the concentration of energy is also very high, with a leading planet and a trailing planet (always taken in the natural order of signs, i.e. Aries, Taurus, etc. through Pisces). The concentrated energy is released through the isolated planet, also known as the Apex, which channels the entire dynamism of the chart and constitutes the native's privileged focal point.





the definitions, in italics are from:
https://www.astrotheme.com/files/planetary-patterns.php
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  #3  
Unread 08-14-2018, 08:54 AM
Pageofwands Pageofwands is offline
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Re: Chart Patterns

This is a bucket shape. Itís like a bowl, but with a planet or small close cluster of planets as the bucketís ďhandleĒ. Youíre also one planet away from a kite so Iíd be curious to see if you had any asteroids in Sagittarius to complete it!
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  #4  
Unread 08-14-2018, 11:14 AM
kshantaram kshantaram is offline
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Re: Chart Patterns

Glad to learn you are into astrology,
hope observations help, do share-discuss pointwise salient ground feedbacks,
how true-false-insightful-helpful-prospective, traits-talents-health, etc etc,


asc lord mar own scorpio 7th, research-occult-metallurgical aptitudes,
growth-riches through own merit, police, defence, alchemy, etc,
jup lord 9th for luck now transit mars scorpio 7th for marriage etc;


7th lord venus over acq 11th, gains through spouse-business partners;
gains through electronics-mechatronics, pharmacy, etc;


but acq-sat inimical-malefic for aries asc,
income-gains-friendships-relationship under stress-delay;
venus inimical acq prone to kidney issues;

ketu separative SNode now 1.5yr transit venus-acq 11th,
detachment from income-gains-friendships-relationship to care,
pain-injury-surgery arms-shoulders-ears-legs-sciatica-kidneys etc

natal ketu virgo 6th, hyper-critical attitude, audit-quality control roles,

accident prone, job separations, pain-injury-surgery intestinal etc;
able to cope with opponents;
prayers to Christ, offer red flowers wed evenings at the alter at home;


rahu pisces 12th seeking-learning sensitivity, tending to foreign lands;

jup lord 9th over 12th, perhaps luck in foreign lands; advisory aptitudes;
jup lord 8th and 12th over 12th, success amidst adversity;

jup trine moon leo 5th, supportive of luck-edu-romance-children-advisory role;
moon 5th aptitude for teaching-psychology-counseling-medicine, etc;
rahu now transit moon leo, clouding the mind, foreign relationship;

moon-venus opp artistic aptitudes, while may not be indicative of healthy romantic relationships;

5th lord sun-mer cap, literary-oratory-mathematical aptitudes;
ambitious and hardworking, good at event management;
mer lord 6th calling for extra efforts;

inimical sat over sag 9th,
stress-delays in luck-edu-father-distant travels,
while could have philosophical-technical-trainer-legal aptitudes;
inimical sat prone to thigh issues perhaps;
observe fast sat evenings taking milk-fruit;

jup aspect own sag 9th protective though;
prayers to saint of faith, offer yellow flowers tues mornings;
may wear yellow sapphire over pendant touching heart;

sat aspect own acq 11th, protective of income-gains,
but not good for health of friendships-relationship;

sat return previous 2.5yrs calling for long-term decisions of life, change;
sat these 4-5m retro revisiting sat sag 9th;

inimical sat transit own sun-mer cap, luck-career under stress-delay;
heart-stomach-knees-skin issues perhaps;


do promptly ack, and share ground feedbacks which could be interesting to learn of,


wishing well, kshantaram
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  #5  
Unread 08-14-2018, 04:06 PM
kalenaradia kalenaradia is offline
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Thumbs up Re: Chart Patterns

Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
Chart patterns are one of my favorite topics of astrological discussion.

Ok, I can say definitively that you are NOT a Splash, nor a Bowl.



THE SPLASH
As indicated by its name, this planetary pattern displays an even scattering of the ten planets throughout the Zodiac (from Mercury to Pluto, and the luminaries, namely the Sun and the Moon). There is continuity in the planets' distribution. The maximum distance between any two planets is of three signs, or 90 degrees.



You only have one planet in the lower hemisphere. It doesn't fit with the above definition.^^^




THE BOWL
All the planets are gathered within a hemisphere, or bowl, i.e. 180 degrees, or a wide half of the circle (up to a maximum of 190 degrees).


You don't have everything within 180 degrees...^^^^




OKAY, so what do you have. I can make a case for Locomotive OR Bucket[Funnel]


the LOCOMOTIVE, which is actually a chart with all the planets gathered on a large part of the Zodiac (quite the contrary of the BUNDLE), and where there is an empty space of 120 degrees. In this pattern, possibly the most frequent one in asymmetric charts, two planets are emphasized: the planet leading the locomotive in the natural order of the signs (counterclockwise), which plays the role of the leader and somehow pulls the personality.



OK, technically, your chart COULD fit within this definition. The Moon/Jupiter trine COULD be seen as the Locomotive leading and trailing planet.

However, The Moon is a singleton, being the only planet below the horizon. And there is a big empty space between the Moon and Pluto. So it does not really feel like a true locomotive, in which there is a cohesive, integrated train, using up 2/3 of the zodiac.



I would say you have a Bucket, with the singleton Moon as the handle.

The BUCKET, or the FUNNEL, has all the planets posited in one part of the Zodiac, with the exception of one planet or a conjunction of planets on the opposite side and isolated.



THE BUCKET or THE FUNNEL
In this quite frequent pattern, like in the preceding pattern, all the planets are gathered in one hemisphere, i.e. within a maximum of 190 degrees, but with a planet or a conjunction of planets posited apart from the main group. A minimum distance of 30 degrees, and preferably of 60 degrees, must separate the isolated planet/conjunction from the main group.

In this bucket pattern as in the bowl pattern, the concentration of energy is also very high, with a leading planet and a trailing planet (always taken in the natural order of signs, i.e. Aries, Taurus, etc. through Pisces). The concentrated energy is released through the isolated planet, also known as the Apex, which channels the entire dynamism of the chart and constitutes the native's privileged focal point.





the definitions, in italics are from:
https://www.astrotheme.com/files/planetary-patterns.php

This is wonderful! Thank you for the breakdown

I think I was avoiding the bucket pattern for some reason. Now I see it is the most obvious. Iíll have to investigate that. In the meantime, what advice would you give to someone with my type of shape? Any specifics based on the moon as the leading planet?

I will tell you, my emotions have been a huge part of my life. Iíve been investigating their use for as long as I can remember. I feel very intensely. When I was younger, I used to engage in self-harm because it was too much. At this juncture, I am in the process of learning how to feel all of the intensity and channel that in artistic work. I am often told that I am too sensitive and need to develop the thicker skin.

In my work as an Astrologer (I intertwine mediumship and psychic abilities as well) I heavily emphasize the validation of my clientís emotions. I would say one of my main superpowers is understanding emotions and helping people accept and work with them. I am a source of comfort as well as inspiration for adults and children.

Thanks again! I appreciate you!

Xo
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  #6  
Unread 08-14-2018, 04:16 PM
kalenaradia kalenaradia is offline
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Re: Chart Patterns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pageofwands View Post
This is a bucket shape. Itís like a bowl, but with a planet or small close cluster of planets as the bucketís ďhandleĒ. Youíre also one planet away from a kite so Iíd be curious to see if you had any asteroids in Sagittarius to complete it!
Hi! Your question is prompting me to take a look at Asteroids. I've only truly investigated Chiron, so thank you.

It looks like these are my Asteroids according to Solar Fire:

-Astraea: Sagittarius, 8th House
-Vesta: Leo (Rx), 4th House
-Chrion: Gemini, 3rd House
-Hygeia: Virgo, 5th House
-Pallas: Capricorn, 9th House
-Ceres: Aquarius, 10th House
-Juno: Pisces, 12th House

I'm looking forward to your response - I appreciate you!

xo
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  #7  
Unread 08-15-2018, 02:52 AM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Chart Patterns

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalenaradia View Post
This is wonderful! Thank you for the breakdown

I think I was avoiding the bucket pattern for some reason. Now I see it is the most obvious. I’ll have to investigate that. In the meantime, what advice would you give to someone with my type of shape? Any specifics based on the moon as the leading planet?

I will tell you, my emotions have been a huge part of my life. I’ve been investigating their use for as long as I can remember. I feel very intensely. When I was younger, I used to engage in self-harm because it was too much. At this juncture, I am in the process of learning how to feel all of the intensity and channel that in artistic work. I am often told that I am too sensitive and need to develop the thicker skin.

In my work as an Astrologer (I intertwine mediumship and psychic abilities as well) I heavily emphasize the validation of my client’s emotions. I would say one of my main superpowers is understanding emotions and helping people accept and work with them. I am a source of comfort as well as inspiration for adults and children.

Thanks again! I appreciate you!

Xo

I think it is fantastic that your funnel is going to a fiery Moon, and not to a watery, 4th house Moon. You may feel at times that you are too sensitive, or too overly emotional—but the Leo 5th house energy gives you the ability to burn through much of that emotional overload, and get some creative, inspirational perspective. You are in touch your inner source of divinity, but know it is a long journey. So you don’t pretend to be perfect, even though others may look up to you and see you as a guide.

If that funnel was flowing into a 4th house Watery Moon, you might be going through debilitating bouts of severe depression, with great difficulty pulling out of those doldrums. But that 5th house Leo Moon is inspirational and proud of personal growth. You are a true artist. Moon in Leo in the 5th is the creative archetype===writing, acting, design, dance, spirit, music...

This Leo energy gives you multitalented , artistically intense focus, and the ability to get out of your own neediness for long enough to create a way out. You can learn quickly and can impart knowledge on so many levels because of the sincerity and integrity you embody.

The Moon rules the 4th, so the emotional energy is ever present for sure. But it is not all consuming, as the Moon has moved ahead and trines a fiery Jupiter and opposes Venus. I see you as a divine role model, even as you are searching and finding your own way.

That Moon/Venus to the apex of the T-square, to Pluto in the 7th might describe the old patterns of self harm. That Pluto transforms and becomes the 'healer' in the 7th. The counselor that knows just what is needed at the right moment.




I am sure you are already aware of having to make sure you protect yourself somewhat, from the over flow and backwash, of your clients emotions. Having that funnel to your Moon, as the only planet below the horizon, can turn you into a psychic sponge. That's nice for your clients, but it can be hard on your own mental balance. Do a lot of preparation and post op routines, to clear out the overflow, to keep yourself clear.

Last edited by katydid; 08-15-2018 at 02:55 AM.
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  #8  
Unread 08-20-2018, 04:55 AM
kshantaram kshantaram is offline
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Re: Chart Patterns

if could kindly ack the humble reading done,
and the feedbacks how true-untrue-insightuful etc etc,

glad to learn you are a professional astrologer,


best regards, kshantaram
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Last edited by kshantaram; 08-20-2018 at 04:59 AM.
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  #9  
Unread 08-20-2018, 05:01 AM
kalenaradia kalenaradia is offline
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Re: Chart Patterns

Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
I think it is fantastic that your funnel is going to a fiery Moon, and not to a watery, 4th house Moon. You may feel at times that you are too sensitive, or too overly emotionalóbut the Leo 5th house energy gives you the ability to burn through much of that emotional overload, and get some creative, inspirational perspective. You are in touch your inner source of divinity, but know it is a long journey. So you donít pretend to be perfect, even though others may look up to you and see you as a guide.

If that funnel was flowing into a 4th house Watery Moon, you might be going through debilitating bouts of severe depression, with great difficulty pulling out of those doldrums. But that 5th house Leo Moon is inspirational and proud of personal growth. You are a true artist. Moon in Leo in the 5th is the creative archetype===writing, acting, design, dance, spirit, music...

This Leo energy gives you multitalented , artistically intense focus, and the ability to get out of your own neediness for long enough to create a way out. You can learn quickly and can impart knowledge on so many levels because of the sincerity and integrity you embody.

The Moon rules the 4th, so the emotional energy is ever present for sure. But it is not all consuming, as the Moon has moved ahead and trines a fiery Jupiter and opposes Venus. I see you as a divine role model, even as you are searching and finding your own way.

That Moon/Venus to the apex of the T-square, to Pluto in the 7th might describe the old patterns of self harm. That Pluto transforms and becomes the 'healer' in the 7th. The counselor that knows just what is needed at the right moment.




I am sure you are already aware of having to make sure you protect yourself somewhat, from the over flow and backwash, of your clients emotions. Having that funnel to your Moon, as the only planet below the horizon, can turn you into a psychic sponge. That's nice for your clients, but it can be hard on your own mental balance. Do a lot of preparation and post op routines, to clear out the overflow, to keep yourself clear.
I really appreciate your feedback and have been doing my best to take it all in! Thank you!
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  #10  
Unread 08-20-2018, 05:19 AM
kalenaradia kalenaradia is offline
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Re: Chart Patterns

Quote:
Originally Posted by kshantaram View Post
Glad to learn you are into astrology,
hope observations help, do share-discuss pointwise salient ground feedbacks,
how true-false-insightful-helpful-prospective, traits-talents-health, etc etc,
Thanks for your response! I apologize for taking so long to get back to you. This is going to be a rather lengthy response and I haven't had time to post.[/I]

asc lord mar own scorpio 7th, research-occult-metallurgical aptitudes,
growth-riches through own merit, police, defence, alchemy, etc,
jup lord 9th for luck now transit mars scorpio 7th for marriage etc;

Yes to occult, yes to growth through own merit (still am very poor). I see that now would be a lucky time for marriage, but I am purposely single so I can heal my past wounds and do some deep introspective work.


7th lord venus over acq 11th, gains through spouse-business partners;
gains through electronics-mechatronics, pharmacy, etc;

I suppose I have had gains through other people, but my relationship with exes were very rocky and not worth the monetary gains. I did learn a lot though and those relationships have helped me develop more wisdom. I would say that I will have success through electronics in the future. I do want to develop an app, but I'm not there yet. I really would like to attract a business partner, but I have yet to do so.

but acq-sat inimical-malefic for aries asc,
income-gains-friendships-relationship under stress-delay;
venus inimical acq prone to kidney issues;

Def. difficulties with income. No kidney issues, but I live a pretty healthy lifestyle, which is not how I was raised. I have been accident prone, but as I develop more mindfulness and slower approach those accidents have decreased. I'm still a work in progress.

ketu separative SNode now 1.5yr transit venus-acq 11th,
detachment from income-gains-friendships-relationship to care,
pain-injury-surgery arms-shoulders-ears-legs-sciatica-kidneys etc

I do experience body aches due to my stressful mind. I'm working on healing these issues.

natal ketu virgo 6th, hyper-critical attitude, audit-quality control roles,

Yes. Definitely have a hyper-critical attitude. My mother has 5 planets in Virgo and is a Virgo S Node as well. Needless to say, I definately come from a Virgo perspective. I literally have the Pisces glyph tattooed on my left wrist to remind me to let go of the need for control. I have a disorder of anxiety.

accident prone, job separations, pain-injury-surgery intestinal etc;
able to cope with opponents;
prayers to Christ, offer red flowers wed evenings at the alter at home;
I really don't like conflict, but I am doing better at asserting myself kindly in order to get what I want. I also do not experience many outward opponents..more like people who just don't understand me...which I'm learning is OKAY.


rahu pisces 12th seeking-learning sensitivity, tending to foreign lands;

jup lord 9th over 12th, perhaps luck in foreign lands; advisory aptitudes;
jup lord 8th and 12th over 12th, success amidst adversity;

I have a strong desire to travel and to help people who encounter adverse living situations. This dream has not happened yet, however, do to al lack of funds. I've never left the country (US).

jup trine moon leo 5th, supportive of luck-edu-romance-children-advisory role;
moon 5th aptitude for teaching-psychology-counseling-medicine, etc;
rahu now transit moon leo, clouding the mind, foreign relationship;

I love working with children and I am a teacher above all else. I like to teach people through story, art and whatever other medium I can find. No foreign relationships. My mind is clouded, but much less than before. I am incredibly aware of my patterns and doing my best to clear the cobwebs so I can realize my potential.

moon-venus opp artistic aptitudes, while may not be indicative of healthy romantic relationships;

Yes on artistic aptitudes. I haven't yet nurtured them, however. I have dreams of learning instruments, languages, dance, acting, art, filmmaking, etc. I am a writer as well.

5th lord sun-mer cap, literary-oratory-mathematical aptitudes;
ambitious and hardworking, good at event management;
mer lord 6th calling for extra efforts;

I am very ambitious and hardworking, good at event management...however, I don't know so much about the mathematical aptitude. I honestly feel, however, this is because I experienced a busy mind as a child and had trouble focusing in school. I am highly interested in going back to school for mathematics and science.

inimical sat over sag 9th,
stress-delays in luck-edu-father-distant travels,
while could have philosophical-technical-trainer-legal aptitudes;
inimical sat prone to thigh issues perhaps;
observe fast sat evenings taking milk-fruit;

I do feel lucky, but my luck is always last minute. Like...I'm at my wits end, about to starve and in the middle of a depression when something comes out of the blue. I have to work very hard to get my life in check in order to create my own sense of stability. I often have a feeling like others don't have to work as hard.

jup aspect own sag 9th protective though;
prayers to saint of faith, offer yellow flowers tues mornings;
may wear yellow sapphire over pendant touching heart;

sat aspect own acq 11th, protective of income-gains,
but not good for health of friendships-relationship;

I don't have many income gains, like I said. My career is not taking off...but if I keep plowing away it will. I just wish I could be OKAY financially in order to focus on my Astrology business.

sat return previous 2.5yrs calling for long-term decisions of life, change;
sat these 4-5m retro revisiting sat sag 9th;

yep.

inimical sat transit own sun-mer cap, luck-career under stress-delay;
heart-stomach-knees-skin issues perhaps;

I do experience stomach issues from a anxious mind.
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  #11  
Unread 08-20-2018, 05:54 AM
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Somna7H Somna7H is offline
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Re: Chart Patterns

Mine looks like Cluster or Bowl ?
http://imgur.com/m0qQlLl
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  #12  
Unread 09-01-2018, 04:03 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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I have been doing astrology since 1972 and use chart patterns ss standard practice. I type your chart as a Bucket with moon in leo as handle and singleton north.
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  #13  
Unread 09-01-2018, 05:00 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Chart Patterns

Notes on patterns.
As long as you rely on programs to define patterns you delay competence. The two programs you mention were both wrong.
Pluto intercepted in 7 and jupiter form the rim of the bucket. Their midpoint falls at about 1 aqua leo. So the moon is inclined slightly left.

Because moon is so powerfully dominant all of her aspects must be given added importance. Certainly the fixed square with intercepted pluto at apex makes pluto a force. Also note the partile quincunx to strongly angular sun.
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Unread 09-01-2018, 07:09 AM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Chart Patterns

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalenaradia View Post
Hello,

I'm a professional Astrologer, but I feel a need to go back over the basics. Chart patterns was a certain area I struggled with a bit. Maybe you can help me here. I'd like to begin by identifying my own chart shape.

To me, it looks a lot like a locomotive shape. Solar Fire has me as a locomotive. Time Passages has me as a splash. I also see this as a bit of a bowl shape as well. Thoughts?

Thank you for your help!
unaspected planets, dissociate aspects, aspect patterns and chart shapes
This article, adapted from the text of Nicholas Campion's compendium of astrology
- The Ultimate Astrologer (published by Hay House, 2003)
- offers an introductory guide to their meaning in the birth chart
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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