What is our problem?

Hi all,
I'm involved in a very up and down relationship with a LOT of tension arguments, lies, manipulation etc etc which I cannot seem to free myself from. I say me, but I know that the relationship causes him pain too and he probably has issues letting go as well. We aren't officially together now...not since last Christmas, but however much we try to limit our contact (we have a child so contact is necessary) we end up back to spending a lot of social time together and being intimate...and effectivelly behaving just like we would if we were in a relationship, if that makes sense.

My question is, what is our problem? I have posted our synastry and composite charts and you will see that we have some unpleasant mars/sun/mercury aspects and also a mars-moon conjunction, so I guess that probably explains the arguments. But why such a problem letting go and moving on? It's never happened to me before. It's been like this from the begining and now 3 years on I just don't know how to resolve the issue. Is this some sort of karmic thing I have to endure forever??

Appreciate any advice/comments you can offer.

I wonder if I posted this in the right group...perhaps it should be in the 'read my chart' forum??

Thanks
Petal

Hello Friends.....

Am here to sort out my relationship related problem.Me and my wife Jane have good compatibility.But from last month i face many problem in our relationship,even we both think about Divorce.I love her so much and don't want to loose her at any cost........
So please tell me astrologically about My problem.
My details are
Name- Barret Morgan
Birth time- 02:55 PM
Place- Fairbank US
Hope i get solution to mine problem.
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Dating Sites | Dating Websites

hi petal

the composite show aspect of a veru producitve relationship/partnership.with the sun opposed to jupiter and sextile mars and trine to mars.you have to have the same profession and you are both extremely successful.this pattern show a very strong financial/social position.

with venus conjunct to uranus, opposed to moon conjunct chiron ,the attraction was immediate and intense.but the influence of uranus,though it give intense satisfaction,also implies a brilliant but brief affair.it is very difficult for the idealistic and romantic intensity of uranus to be transfered into the routine interactions of a "normal" relationship.
with chiron conjuct to the moon ,there is a tendency to get too far into each other's "head". this shows a need to understand the Other"s spiritual/emotional;/mental makeup completely.but often this becomes an anoyance rather that a means to deeper intimacy.when things ar not going well ,this aspect shows pettiness and malicious comebacks.

with the neptune/saturn midpoint conjunct the sun, hidden motives are likely as this shows a complicated relationship with many outside variables part of the mix.this can show disengenousness or lies thru omission.

the financial picture is very powerful and this must be having some affect on him as he has becomes noncommunicative at best. at worst he is currently not thinking about you at all.his impulses are extremely selfish and meglomaniacal and this isolation will only get stronger in the comimg months.

rahu

Thanks rahu,

We are in similar fields...but I can say that neither of us is in a strong financial position. On the contrary, it has been a very difficult couple of years.

However, what you say about getting into eachothers heads and the annoyance it causes is certainly true. I think that is one thing he hates about me and it's something I can't stop myself from doing. I fugured it was because I have sun/mer/sat in his 12th.

Correct again on pettiness and malicious words/actions. We both openly admit that we have never been so nasty to others as we have to eachother. Ditto on the lies (his)...and certainly on outside variables (eg one or both will be moving country). And yes, he is rather selfish and self involved.

But I don't understand what you mean about his isolation increasing in the coming months. Is this because of transits? saturn opposing composite moon perhaps? Should I just cut my losses? I haven't been able to so far, no matter how much I rationalise it.

Is the composite the best way to interpret our situation? I mean is synastry not the primary method of understanding the problem?

Thanks again for your time.

every one has their druthers.
maybe another member will interpret you synastry for you.

rahu

Thanks again rahu - you've touched on some interesting aspects. i think I'll be looking at composites a lot more in future!

If anyone has any input with regards to our synastry chart, I would be really grateful.

Cheers,
petal

petal said:

Hi all,
I'm involved in a very up and down relationship with a LOT of tension arguments, lies, manipulation etc etc which I cannot seem to free myself from. I say me, but I know that the relationship causes him pain too and he probably has issues letting go as well. We aren't officially together now...not since last Christmas, but however much we try to limit our contact (we have a child so contact is necessary) we end up back to spending a lot of social time together and being intimate...and effectivelly behaving just like we would if we were in a relationship, if that makes sense.

My question is, what is our problem? I have posted our synastry and composite charts and you will see that we have some unpleasant mars/sun/mercury aspects and also a mars-moon conjunction, so I guess that probably explains the arguments. But why such a problem letting go and moving on? It's never happened to me before. It's been like this from the begining and now 3 years on I just don't know how to resolve the issue. Is this some sort of karmic thing I have to endure forever??

Appreciate any advice/comments you can offer.

Click to expand...

Its very difficult to be in a relationship with someone who has Venus conjunct Neptune in 5th house. In my experience, they do not love the person, they love the idea of love, they love the grandure of their "own love" and very keen to show people that how much they have sacrificed because of this relationship. It *****!

Mercury square Moon and Mercury square Sun, although ensures a lot of mental energy and stimulation, its not an easy thing to manage. Most of the time you end up saying the wrong stuff, or think in a cross purpose way! Your North Node conjuncting his Venus, perhaps you find him chanllanging because he pulls you towards you destiney, this is a scary experience as people love to clutch their past. In my opinion, if you let go and follow his lead, it will be easier for you to reach your destiney. His chiron conjunct your Jupiter. Your philosophy and believe may heal his past life wounds. Same with your Chiron and his Mars 9losely though).

You have a lot of good things in your synastry. But the square between Saturn and Pluto, and double whammy of Mercury hard aspect, along with Uranus square Ascendant maybe be causing you trouble. If both of you discuss these things openly and being able to manage these negetive energy, you would end up having a enduring relationship.

All the best

Hi Chirogirl. Thanks!

I have venus square neptune in the 5th...so I'm only too aware of how difficult relationships can be with people like us

And as for the mercury square his mercury and his mars...well, let's say that resolving issues is near impossible. Even the smallest disagreements turn into angry debates!

Have you any thoughts on his mars conjunct my moon? I think it may play a role in all the arguing and emotionalisms...

Also, anyone have experience with personal planets (my sun and merc) and saturn in another's 12th house?

And what about vertex? Does anyone use that? my vertex is exactly conjunct his venus...(interestingly, our daughters moon is exact conjunct his vertext - family connection, perhaps?)

petal said:

Hi Chirogirl. Thanks!

I have venus square neptune in the 5th...so I'm only too aware of how difficult relationships can be with people like us

And as for the mercury square his mercury and his mars...well, let's say that resolving issues is near impossible. Even the smallest disagreements turn into angry debates!

Have you any thoughts on his mars conjunct my moon? I think it may play a role in all the arguing and emotionalisms...

Also, anyone have experience with personal planets (my sun and merc) and saturn in another's 12th house?

And what about vertex? Does anyone use that? my vertex is exactly conjunct his venus...(interestingly, our daughters moon is exact conjunct his vertext - family connection, perhaps?)

Click to expand...

Mars Conjuct Moon would indicate sexual attraction, I would think. Since its his Mars and your Moon, she should find you super duper faminine and that would bring out his male sexual side. Its a great connection to have in synastry. It seems your main problem is Mercury and the square between Saturn and Pluto. Uranus square also makes a relationship very unstable, although exiting.

Vertex is a funny point. I have some kind of vertex connection with allmost all my siblings, close friends and boyfriends. Some people call it karmic connection! Go figure...hahahaha

You also have Moon opposition Pluto. It's your Pluto and his Moon (I feel pitty for him...poor guy..hahaha). I have this connection with my on again off again boyfriend. He is Pluto and I am Moon. He exercises tremendous power over me. He can control me what seems like telepathically and I have very little resistance when it come to him. No matter how much I hate him, I always end up smitten by him-the animal attraction is just too strong.

Your Moon Saturn trine shows your inability to break away for good. Its a binding sextile.

Hi, Petal:

Rahu's and ChironGirl's interpretations are spot on in my opinion. I would also like to point out some other very potent contacts which, in my experience, have been extremely reliable indicators of that "I can't quit you, baby" feeling we sometimes share with another J

Before I do that, though, I first want to underline what ChironGirl said about Moon/Mars contacts. They stir some especially heady ingredients into the pot: it's emotions+physicality, and they usually produce a knee-jerk visceral reaction. The hard contacts (con, squ, opp) are harder to deal with in the long term, and so your thoughts about it being a sore point are likely dead on, as well. This has shown up so many times in chart interps I’ve done where the individuals just couldn't keep their hands off one another. Thinking about my personal experience, I once had a relationship with a man whose Moon was exactly sextile my Mars (0'00" !) and my Moon was less than a degree from exact trine of his Mars. He could turn me on just looking at me, while I could do the same to him. And we were each quite aggressive about initiating action on these feelings.


Of course, with relationships that are significant--and clearly this is one of those, as it has produced a child, has gone on for a few years, and has concerned you enough to ask advice--there are many more indicators that, when synthesized together, begin to tell a theme. Rahu's composite interpretation certainly spelled out the difficulties quite well. ChironGirl was also quite right about the difficult Mercury/Sun/Moon contacts. So, to get to your question…why can’t you two just be done with each other (in that way, at least)?

Pluto and Neptune

Well, first let’s note that ChironGirl was also right about the powerful role Pluto plays in any synastrical comparison; there’s a reason all those Scorpio types are so magnetic! (Pluto rules Scorpio). Any time you see someone’s Pluto contacting someone else’s personal planet (Sun, Moon, Merc, Venus, Mars), Chiron, or an angle (Asc, Desc, IC, MC), the words “obsession” and/or “intense” should leap to mind. And if that personal planet happens to be a luminary (Sun or Moon), the reaction is more pronounced. ChironGirl is also correct when she states that the Pluto person has a bit of an upper hand. Your Pluto is not only opposition his Moon, his Pluto is sextile your Sun. You both have a striking effect on the other.

Neptune is also confusing things here, too. Rahu pointed out the difficulties shown in the composite chart, and ChironGirl mentioned his Venus/Neptune conj in your fifth house. Have you ever looked at the planet Neptune? Like the other large planets in our solar system, it’s surface is gassy and cloudy-looking. But other planets give some indication of “personality”: Jupiter is supersized and has colored bands, Saturn has its rings, and Uranus rolls on its side rather than spinning vertically on its axis; you have some idea where these planets “stand,” as it were. Neptune is just…well, non-committal as Hell, leaving you to imagine what’s under the surface: is that a diamond at the bottom of the pool? Or is it just quartz? It could be either one, and sometimes it is the diamond; if you don’t dive in, you’ll never know. That’s the allure of Neptune. We are left to assume what we will, and we usually see what we want to see. We’ll fantasize and idealize, and—should that characterization be allowed to go on long enough—it can be very difficult to dissuade ourselves of that notion, even when presented with indisputable evidence to the contrary. Your guy’s Venus/Neptune conjunction (Idealized Love, Idealized Beauty) in your 5th house has you seeing him as Mr. Sensitive Loverboy (at least, at first). If instead that Venus/Neptune were in your, say, 10th house, then he might be able to easily get you to buy into his pyramid-get-rich-quick scheme. But it’s not in the Tenth. It’s in your 5th house of romance/pleasure/self-expression, and you have had little resistance when he paints a very romantic picture with his words and/or actions. But wait! There’s more! Your Sun and Mercury (ego/lifeforce and thought process, respectively) are each trine his Neptune; as well, his Neptune trines your Asc. That Sun/Merc conjunction of yours in your 1st House (along with his Neptune trining your Asc), and ruling, respectively, your 2nd and 12th houses, adds a dose of making you feel quite accepted at not only at face value (1st house/Asc), but also makes you feel that your fantasies and dreams (merc ruling 12th house) are met with acceptance by him, are beautiful to him. Your 2nd house, denoting what you consider valuable—including your self-worth—is also affected through the Sun’s rulership. So, let’s see…Identity, Self-Worth, your sweetest fantasies…and even those nightmares and subconscious fears that stay buried in the 12th house alongside those fantasies: for you, he seems to be looking at all of those things through rose-colored glasses, which may or may not actually be the case. That’s pretty difficult to resist, and even after you've been disappointed, it's hard to forget. To be fair, it probably is the case sometimes, maybe even most times (it’s hard to say without looking deeper at his chart); but, like Neptune, that part of him can be a bit nebulous and unreliable. He may decide in any given moment that you are, in fact, just quartz—only to turn around a day, week, or months later and declare his certainty of your jewel brilliance.

Midpoints, Angles, and Nodal Axis


I have found these contact measurements in synastry to be extraordinarily strong. Depending on the planets/points involved, they can denote a relationship which is quite lasting, even if the intensity should vary over time.


In the methodology I use here, I refer to Noel Tyl’s work. While I do not agree with everything he puts forth, I must say that—truly without exception, in my experience—his work regarding the Midpoints, Angles, and Nodal Axis has absolutely and unequivocally played out. In my interpretations and my own personal experience, these types of contacts are powerfully felt by both individuals. It is important to note here that, regarding the sensitive Midpoints, Angles, and Nodal Axis, it’s not the type of contact that is important—it is merely that a hard contact is made, and that the orbs be kept tight—no more than +/- 2-1/2 degrees. Along with the con, opp, and square, Tyl includes the quindecile (165 degrees) as an important hard aspect for these measurements. Again, my experience has borne this out. I would be very interested to know how this methodology has worked for others.

Any time I have done a synastry interpretation where the personal planets (esp the luminaries), Chiron, Saturn, and/or Pluto of one person were conjunct the angles of the other, there is, again, a strong, gut-level reaction to one another. The planets and angles involved denote the feel of the connection. We’ve already discussed the personal planets, Chiron, and Pluto; Saturn, as I think both Rahu and ChironGirl pointed out, carries a sense of seriousness with it, and can be something of a wet blanket; this can be a separative sort of contact, although it is extremely common for Composite Saturn to show up in the Composite 7th house of relationships that last.

Referring specifically to your charts, you have that Moon-Pluto opposition of yours directly on top of his MC/IC axis. To be honest, I can only guess how that might play out, as I don’t believe I have seen it before in my interpretations (though I’m sure it’s not unheard of). I guess I would take this to mean something like “you inspire in him an intense (obsessive?) emotion (Pluto-Moon) that affects him in a fundamental way (IC), and which is difficult for him to hide(MC).” For angle contacts, the attributes of the planet(s) seem to play out through the entire axis of the angle—after all, your Pluto is conj his IC, but it is also opposite his MC; and vice versa with your Moon. Some others on this site may have their own interpretations, and which also may be better than mine J

You also have your Saturn = his Sun/Moon Midpoint (again, the type of hard contact is not important here, so we simply put an “=” ). As with the angles, house placements, etc, both individuals feel midpoint contacts, it’s just that the effect depends on which person’s chart carries which planet or point. In this case, we’re talking about Saturn, and Saturn is serious. This would, I think, contribute to both pulling you together and breaking you apart. This contact indicates that you would definitely be drawn to one another—there’s something “karmic” or “past life”, if you will, about Saturn and relationships; often, each finds that the other person seems immediately familiar, which is a common theme with Sun/Moon midpoint, nodal, and vertex contacts. But Saturn is just so serious and “taskmaster-ish” that it can just seem to slam on the brakes—sometimes this is felt from the git-go, so to speak, but the awareness over time is a certainty. (Again, it is possible that there are many other things in a synastrical comparison that would mitigate this effect, or that may cause this even to be supportive in nature, but I do not see such contacts between the two of you.)

And just when you thought we were done with Neptune, here it comes again: his Neptune = your Sun/Moon. Do I need to describe it? J Sun/Moon midpoint contacts are usually felt immediately. In my personal experience, it smacks me right between the eyes. Bam! Personal planets have the longer-lasting and deeper effect, with the luminaries being the most potent. His Neptune, in your case, hits you at your core and you are thrilled as he paints all these beautiful pictures—and then often (though not always, depending on the rest of the contacts, both natally and synastrically), that is followed with disillusionment. As with the Saturn = Sun/Moon, we’re talking here about being drawn to one another, and then needing to get away from one another. And when we consider those two midpoint pictures together—Serious Saturn with the need for structure and Nebulous Neptune finding structure and limits to be absolute anathema—each hitting you right where you live…well, the result can run the gamut from a fairy tale painstakingly brought to life, to a disastrous tug-of-war that leaves you both confused and feeling betrayed by the other. And there’s nothing that says it can’t, given time, be both.

Finally, there is the Composite NN = S/M. I’m not sure what that would mean, except to say that…perhaps at the heart of your relationship is the coming together to fulfill some spiritual purpose? Perhaps your daughter? That NN is in the 5th house. Maybe someone else can take a crack at that. A sensitive point to a sensitive point is a difficult one to assess, yet I don’t want to dismiss it out of hand, and I’ve not seen anything that speaks to this that I can recall.

All in all, I think we’re talking about two people who have a strong need to come together, but there’s not a lot of support in anything that lasts. When the big build up leads to nothing to hold on to, it is quite natural to feel a sense of betrayal, each in the other, and—without some concrete wrongdoing to point—it’s difficult to figure out what’s gone wrong. Both of you are looking for fulfillment that you can’t find in the other, yet you cannot seem to end it; staying together under such circumstances always leads to lies and disillusionment. I think the thing to remember here is that, whatever wonderful things you see in one another and experience together, neither of you is the only source of it. There are others who will thrill you in a way that not only makes you feel just as wonderful, but moreso, more credibly, and with a firmer foundation. There is no higher high than bringing a dream to fruition, to actually make it happen; if there’s a “message” to your Saturn = his Sun/Moon, I think that’s it: “See how unrewarding it is to rely in ‘pie in the sky’ emotions? Go find someone with whom you can build.”
I hope there is some part of this that is helpful J

VG

PS: I find it interesting that one of you has a Sun in Leo and has an Eastern Hemisphere emphasis (Self focus) , and the other has a Sun in Libra with an emphasis on the Western Hemisphere (Other Focus). I could absolutely see that leading to each thinking the other is selfish and/or self-serving.

Hi VirgoGem, I completely missed your response before now and want to say thanks very much for your analysis. I don't have time to read it properly now, but shall pour over it in the morning!

Thanks again for your time!

Hi Petal,

Im also in kind of a relship with a guy who has natal Venus-Neptune conjunction falling in my fifth house (in Scorpio). Im ready to give up soon because that man just cannot take his life into his hands in a constructive way... he is alcoholic and prone to violence and constantly abusing other people (mainly me) with mean words. He is like a big foggy cloud and trying to bring his attention to his problems is just useless... he thinks of himself like of a victim (he is engaged in court battles with his 2 ex wives... they are of course guilty, he is innocent as a baby). He doesnt look into my eyes when he talks to me. It looks like they are drawn to strong women with saturn influence that put their life back on track.
He has positive sides too of course. He is good at heart and loves animals, children etc.

I dont want to babysit him anymore, Ive done enough.