Chiron as the Ruler of Virgo

katydid

Well-known member
HORARY: I am not sure what that is. Is that Uranian Astrology, which is the perspective I am coming from?

To not ignore the question, my response to science is that I am pulling this information from The book Chiron by Barbara Hand Clow. As for rulership, I found her limited information resonated with what my intuition had already felt.
And rulership signifies an ability to use the energy at hand. I am pretty comfortable with my Mercury, my grasp of communication, my ease of learning languages, however, as a RULERSHIP, it has not fit. Ms. Clow's data, with my own primordial data (intuition) regardless of if one feels it is valid or scientific, has been enough, for me. Again, I am not attemepting to promote a convincing convention. But as a VIRGO, and a long time student of astrology, I offer only this evidence to add to the equation. Take it lightly.

Science, research. Fine and dandy, but I do not need to be told something is right to believe it. Again, that is my approach.
I am here to learn more as well. Like, what is horary?
:love:

The only reason that I called you on it is because you told a newbie to the forum that Mercury was NOT the ruler of his Virgo nodes. You told him very authoritatively that Chiron was his proper ruler.

:whistling:
Arguing it, debating it , discussing it is one thing. But telling a new student, flat out, that it is the correct new rulership is off base imo.
Handclow has written a great book, but that is still not enough to change the entire rulership system.
And you had better google the term 'horary' if you want to understand what a huge segment of astrological knowledge you are missing. :wink:
 
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I am also a newbie to this site. Yes, that was a pretty authoritative statement, but it was said to spark inquiry, not challenge the world of astrology. Horary, I googled, and I get it. Not sure how it applies to designating rulership, however.
So, we all have these systems, we choose to follow. I am getting familiar with this site. Actually, the only reason I found this site was searching for Virgo+Chiron info, to see if it is a common idea. We are all students, learning, such as if Chiron has a new ruler. We would learn about it in a forum like this.

So, if I would like to call Chiron the ruler of Virgo, in my opinion, I believe I can.
My evidence is another text, much like yours.
And the individual I spoke it to will have to do his own research. But, they seemed to appreciate the info. I feel it is a planet, asteroid, worth sitting with , especially since it is sitting in Aquarius right now, illuminating the wound upon humanity.

So I appreciate all the info shared, and hope I can offer the same. Perspective.

~Peace & Sound~
Amber
 

katydid

Well-known member
I am also a newbie to this site. Yes, that was a pretty authoritative statement, but it was said to spark inquiry, not challenge the world of astrology. Horary, I googled, and I get it. Not sure how it applies to designating rulership, however.

~Peace & Sound~
Amber

Here is how it applies to rulership. A horary chart foretells the outcome of a particular situation. A lost article, a troubled relationship, a new job. There is a yes or no answer, and it is pretty absolute. So when the situation unfolds, we can look back and see clearly
if the chart was read correctly to foretell the outcome. So as it is now, if a cusp is ruled by virgo, we use mercury to predict the outcome. And it works. So the question is,will Chiron work in place of mercury? :sideways:
 

waybread

Well-known member
Here's a test you can do to see if Chiron (or any other body other than Mercury) is the Domicile ruler of Virgo:

Go back and look at a large number of Horary charts that have concrete, verifiable, successful answers where Mercury was one of the Significators as Domicile ruler of Virgo.

Substitute Chiron (or your other preferred body) as the Significator and see if the chart works.

Unless one can provide research that proves Chiron (or another body) works better in valid horary charts as the Domocile ruler of Virgo, then all the discussion is just the expression of opinion rather than anything backed up by reality.

One can also do this with any other Rulership/Body combo you wish.

In my opinion, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Frank, I hear you! I have made a similar argument before. But because I don't do horary astrology, I would look at so-called accidental house cusp rulers or lords in other kinds of astrology such as timing of transits or character delineation. If Chiron, Ceres, or some other body would work as well as Mercury, I would find that more convincing than mere affinity; because some affinities overlap a lot.
 

divine g

Banned
I agree with evolutionmuse (and for the record, it's wise for you to continue to agree to disagree when push comes to shove on this forum)

As a Gemini, ruled by Mercury, I also never understood why it ruled Virgo. I think it just held that place until Chiron was discovered in 1977. I was born in 1978, and I have Mercury conjunct Chiron in my 10th house Taurus. I also read and enjoyed Barbara Hand Clow's book on Chiron very early in my studies. The reason why her theory holds weight is because she studied many actual charts, and even posted them as examples to back up her theory. There were about 50 different charts if I recall corrrectly.

Now, I have experienced, actual painful experiences that have never really left me, and yes, they were ruled by Chiron. My Chironic wound which never really healed occured when the Sun was in Virgo at 8degrees, exactly trining my natal Chiron. I speak from experience, and this was a very real experience. I think that people who can speak from experience would hold more weight than a horary chart to be honest.

My understanding has been that Chiron is a new age planetoid, that's not quite a planet, but is just as important. It rules new age healing, versus traditional healing, and those are 6th house issues. Virgo's perfectionism towards medicine is especially relevant now that we find that alot of "traditional" medicines are actually killing us. (My father is a mental health practitioner, I just realized that's what the picture of mercury/chiron in the 10th describes. He's in charge of giving out prescription drugs like those that may have killed Michael Jackson, Virgo)

Mercury is still associated with Virgo, but as co-ruler to Chiron. It's been my experience that it's only in the sense of words having the ability to wound people deeply, and the power of words to heal. Now this is coming from someone who was born with Mercury/Chiron conjunct, so I've been dealing with this my whole life, I know what I'm talking about. I know there are words that we have all been called at one time or another which have hurt us deeply, and left wounds which never really healed. Whether we were called "fat", or "stupid", or "ugly", or told we'll never make it, the harsh criticism of Virgo comes in the form of Mercury's words, but Chiron has actual rulership of the pain that these words cause, and the wounds which never really heal because they're so deeply imbedded in our subconscious. Words have the power to traumatize people permanently, and I speak from experience.

My analysis, is that Chiron is more real for the younger generation, born since 1977. As evolutionmuse was saying, we are experiencing it, on very deep levels. Our experience holds much more weight than someone who found their keys using a horary chart. If Chiron is the healer, and the 6th house and Virgo deal with health, I truly have a hard time understanding how someone cant see that connection. As a Gemini who was born just months after Chiron was discovered, as it was conjuncting Mercury, I can speak for them both and say they work together as co-rulers, but time will tell that Chiron is the dominant energy here, bringing new age wisdom to traditional forms of healing, including astrology. I could write a book about this, but Ms. Clow already has. If someone can write a book about it, maybe it should be read before disagreeing with it.
 

Pallas-trine-Mars

Well-known member
Divine, I think you're looking at this too abstractly and are missing the basic reasons as to why Chiron and Virgo is a misstep. I think that in an ideal zodiac each sign has a ruler that fits it obviously. For instance, I don't think Venus needs any help ruling the sign Libra considering that it seems to me that they have the same nature and significations: Romance, social rules, harmony, aesthetics.. Saturn is perfectly like Capricorn: Concerned with the objective rules of reality, tending toward pessimism and age, disunity, dealing with daily practical affairs enduringly, no real need for assistance (the way Saturn prefers it BTW!) Now the way you look at it, Chiron NEEDS Mercury's help, and it's still not good enough because neither of them really has anything to do with Sixth house matters (see my earlier comment).

As for this supposed "proof" that Mercury has worked as ruler of Virgo, I won't force anyone to explain it to me as I'm stilll refining my own techniques to prove astrology's worth (but do explain it if you choose to!); but I'm still skeptical, if Mercury has actually been having any influence at all over Virgo, it could just because of the fact that Mercury's has exaltation in Virgo and in my experience exaltations behave a bit like sign rulers, even if they're rulership over that sign isn't even strong enough to get that sign to behave like the planet in question. I don't believe Mercury has domicile rulership over Virgo at all.

And as for Clow having "proven" the Chiron works, I still disagree (surprised?) I don't think she had 50 charts in that book, and they weren't all about demonstrating Chiron over Virgo, but there was one case were she had the natal chart of a physician where Chiron was placed in the first house in Sagittarius and the Sun and MC were in Virgo. Well the 6th house fell in Taurus and it's becoming more and more popularly believed that Ceres, which was ALSO in Sagittarius and the first house (at least when I figured out the date of this chart), is the ruler of Taurus.
 
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divine g

Banned
Divine, I think you're looking at this too abstractly
You can't be serious. My whole post is about how my whole life experience validates this theory, how can you call my actual real life experience "abstract"? It's pretty easy for you to declare that neither Chiron nor Mercury have anything to do with the 6th house, when you refuse to look for the connection.

The connection is, the mind-body connection. Traditional medicine, specifically Western, was late in seeing what the Ancient Chinese saw as a basic connection between the body and the mind. Chiron's physical body as a man's body, connected with a horse's body, shows the new age holistic healing's philosophy of treating the body and mind as ONE.

Virgo, is the Virgin, and is known for being picky, as a virgin is discriminating in who they will have sex with. This has basic, hygienic, health benefits, as they cant contract any disease sexually. You will see the mind-body connection here, in that there are some std's which affect the brain. And there are some brain disorders which may make one have a sex addiction, lwhich affect sexual behavior, leading to higher chance of std's. Either way, one's mental capacity(mercury), is critically interconnected with one's physical capacity, or health.

Mercury rules the hands, and much of healing is done with hands, how's that for a connection to the 6th house, Pallas? Imagine a surgeon working on you with no hands? A chiropractor or massage therapist with no hands? Have you ever been to a dentist with no hands? Ironically, "hand" is Ms.Clow's middle name, and she pointed out that Chiron means "hand".

It takes a healthy mind to maintain a healthy body. A disorderly mind, will be reflected physically,"as above, so below", (Mercury). It takes intelligence, wisdom, and a clean mind for someone to be a Virgin. The mind is what separates humans from animals. Only the mind, the higher part of the body, can control our lower, sexual instincts of the animal body. Now, what mythic figure best represents that?

Chiron, the Centaur, the Healer. That's the basic connection between Chiron and the 6th house of Health. Chiron also represents the Shaman, who was the healer of ancient tribes, who taught them how to pick and discriminate between poisonous plants, and plants used for healing. I had a much more detailed answer, but this about somes it up. The connections are endless, and easy to see, if anyone is open-minded enough to look. What you're saying Pallas is, "I dont see the connection between the healer and the house of health". There wouldnt be anything wrong with that, if you hadnt come with a tone like people dont know what they're talking about. If you dont think Mercury, which rules intelligence, has anything to do with health, or healing, try go going to an unintelligent doctor. And since hands have nothing to do with healing either, let's see you go find a doctor with no hands. Chiron's main reputation in mythology was the Healer, that's enough for it to be considered and understood as the ruler of the house of Health.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
It is important to remember that astrology has a very long history that pre-dates the Roman (and hence modern) understanding of their god Mercury and the planet that supposedly manifests his attributes.

The precursor of Mercury among the Babylonians, who first invented the cultural astronomy that morphed into our astrology, was a goddess named Nidaba or Nisaba. She was actually a good fit with our modern concept of Virgo.

Here are some excerpts about her from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidaba :

"The god of wisdom, Enki, organized the world after creation and gave each deity a role in the world order. Nisaba was named the scribe of the gods, and Enki then built her a school of learning so that she could better serve those in need. She keeps records, chronicles events, and performs various other bookwork related duties for the gods....
"She is considered the teacher of both mortal scribes and other divine deities. In the Babylonian period, she was replaced by the god Nabu, who took over her functions. As the goddess of knowledge, she is related to many other facets of intellectual study and other gods may turn to her for advice or aid. She is also associate with grain, reflecting her association with an earth goddess mother."

From Nabu we get to the Egyptian scribe Thoth, the Graeco-Egyptian Hermanusbis, the Greek Hermes, and Roman Mercury.

Note that the constellation Virgo is depicted holding a stalk of grain, the star Spica.

It is hard to find a comparable historical link for Chiron with Virgo.
 

rahu

Banned
i look ae the physical layout with chiron.it goes inside saturns orbit and almost to uranus's orbit. so i attribute it to aquarius/capricorn co ruler. and the strong mercury influence in chiron , i see as from the higher octave of mercury,i.e. uranus.

rahu
 

Pallas-trine-Mars

Well-known member
You can't be serious.
I'm totally serious. Theory and philosophy is not proof, it's speculation.

"Wounded healer" is just a popular label assigned to Chiron by new agers. The truth is that Chiron is much more than this, it's like calling Jupiter the "planet of expansion," Jupiter is more than that and to label it as such is misleading to ignorant novice astrologers who otherwise wouldn't think to research Jupiter's workings on their own.

Chiron repesents things like stress disorders, mental pain, psychological disorders, anguish, grief... "Wounded healer" comes from the fact that Chiron's placement involves one of these issues that the person must resolve or "heal" within their life. It doesn't represent physical health, diets, surgeries... It doesn't represent work, order. In fact, neither it nor Mercury does, so neither planet individually or together works in a way that it is a match with the 6th house or the sign Virgo. These are MY experiences, and they aren't just my own, not that my opinions will have any affect on you.:annoyed:

http://www.moonsweb.com/ast/chiron.shtml
http://www.aquarianage.org/west/planets/ch-nat01.html
http://www.astrotherapy.eu/Chiron.htm
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/chiron21.5.html
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/chiron.html
 
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divine g

Banned
And for the record, for anyone else here, I am an actual astrologer with several repeat clients. I can usually tell someone's sign just by looking at their picture. Chiron also rules astrology, and its placement in my 10th house predicted I would someday make a living at it. The roof over my head, this brand new laptop im on, and this working internet connection are very real, not theoretical. I actually make money from my gifts at understanding astrology. evolutionmuse, hope to hear from you soon, thank you for your contribution to the forum.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
We all know the old saying, "The proof of the pudding is in the eating." I'd encourage anyone with an interest in Ceres, Chiron, or other bodies simply to work with them extensively and to do some detailed research. Then get those results out to the astrological community, either via the web, a book, or article. After all, there was a time when nobody used the "new" outer planets Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto; but over time, some consensus developed when certain ways of interpreting these planets appeared to yield consistent results.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Chiron hurts; hurts badly; so badly that there is no recovery. Wounded healer is image of Chiron.

Virgo (and sixth house) is more related to skill and perfection. People do gain skills and do perfect.

I would more associate Chiron with Pisces/Aris Junction (and twelvth/first house), where the wounded guy has to remember wound and start life with remaining unwounded part.

This is as if telling 13th sign, something between Pisces and Aris. Or 13th house, something between 12th house and 1st house.

I agree. When Chiron conjuncted my 5th house Mercury in Aquarius, I broke my ankle while hiking. [Mercury rules walking and Aquarius rules the ankles.]
 
Mercury is suitable for ruling two signs, Virgo as a sign is known for it's analyzing skills, and mental sifting of information, useful, not useful, where to put this, and how best to use this energy. A very good evaluator in that sense. Virgo is an introspective energy and Mercury has both rulership and exaltation in Virgo, and provides Mercury with more concentration, than it has in distractible, extrovert, and playful Gemini. Balancing mind and body is the archetypal meaning behind Virgo. The body is neglected over the mind or vice versa. Mercury still displays a restless nature in Virgo, with it's need to purify, develop new skills, and to categorize information. The sign is busy and useful, and needs to be productive as all earth signs do. The ultimate aim of Virgo is to live a useful existence, and to be of meaningful service. According to Jung, Hermes represents the light that the intellect sheds to illume the dark world. In Virgo our analytical and reasoning powers help us shed light upon difficult situations, we order the personality in Virgo. I personally think Mercury has a powerful rulership over Virgo.

According to Mythic Astrology the astrology chart for the discovery of Chiron has the Asc at 26 Sagittarius, with Pluto on the Midheaven and Chiron is a singleton, retrograde in Taurus and in the 4th house. Every other planet is above the horizon! Mythologically Chiron is depicted as an outsider, he is half human, half animal. Recently I run a lot of charts through the computer looking for Chiron individuals, because I will be honest I do not fully grasp the meaning of Chiron in the individual chart. I know it is very similar to Saturn, in that it can create wounds in an area of the personality. The individual is particularly defensive around those wounds. I have observed that there can be a self-defeatist attitude here. The difference between Saturn and Chiron, is that I personally think Chiron has a close connection with Uranus, he doesn't conform to any tradition. Chiron is caught between Saturn and Uranus. This suggests a way we can interpret Chiron in the natal chart.

In Myth there is a profound connection between Chiorn and Uranus. Imagine watching this poignant tale in a movie, Chiron is wounded unintentionally, it is very unfair and unjust. Chiron is famously known as one of the greatest healers of all. Yet he could not heal himself. Prometheus in the second part of this tale is suffering for rebelling against (Zeus) and stealing fire from the Gods for the good of mankind, his liver is being eaten daily, and his liver regenerates and there is no release from his pain. His rebellion and his idealism for human beings, cost him dearly. I think there is link between both of these figures, they share similar ideals and both suffer. Prometheus suffering is brought upon himself through his own rebellion. Yet, Chiron is just a tragic accident, that happened to one of the more kinder centaurs, who was special through his healing gifts, and his immortality - which he now cursed. The famous story concludes when Prometheus and Chiron exchange places, and two fates meet. Zeus/Jupiter the God of wisdom and higher order agreed to this exchange. Chiron was honoured with a place in the sky as the constellation Saggittarius...roll credits, where are the tissues.

The link to Sagittarius is through the constellation and the "teacher" archetype. And the obvious fact that Chiron is half centaur, half man, like the zodiac sign of Sagittarius. However, Chiron distanced himself from the violent, sexual libido's of his centaur race, he was more civilised. The Virgo rulership is obviously through healing the body itself, and purification (Virgo) developing healing skills, working with herbs and other medicines. There is also an inventive streak in Chiron. What needs to be remembered is that Chiron wondered into the solar system and can easily wonder back out, and perhaps this is why it is best not to give rulership to Chiron in the natal chart. I can see the interrelationship in mythology, and in astrology we can associate different astrological attributes to him and nicely 'label' him as ruler of Virgo or Sagittarius.

Chiron possesses knowledge of astrology, mathematics, and healing techniques. Chirion is alternative healing. Chiron can point to illness in the body relating to a poison, and I have observed this personally. Currently I have my progressed Moon conjunct Chiron in Taurus in the 9th house of my chart. My mother (Moon) has just been on holiday, putting a deposit down on an apartment. Since her return she has become very ill with Swine Flu, and she has a lot of medical problems anyway, and this illness is only compounding them. I had to fend off her negative comments towards me yesterday. I definitely relate Chiron to illness, and something in the "psyche" or "body" that needs healing. I think Chiron is the most difficult to interpret because we cannot "label" this minor planet/asteroid. I would personally leave Chiron out of rulership. Chiron is often referred to as the Maverick - Independent of behavior and thought. He might not sit easily in our perfect little system.

It is interesting in Modern times to learn who has taken the Chiron symbol.

The Royal Army Vetinar - Responsible for the provision and care of animals.



Delta Lambda Phi - This group has also taken the Logo. The group represents gay, bisexual and progressive men. I do believe symbols are powerful, and hold emotional impact. A group often viewed as outsiders have chosen a symbol that represents a civilised, intellectual and progressive nature. Mavericks with great independence in thought and action.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
As others have noted above, assigning a modern ruler to a sign on the basis of an affinity--whether modern or mythological--is only part of the story.

I don't think traditional astrologers would ever be convinced because there just isn't room in their system of dignities and debilities for new planets. They're "full up", so to speak.

But even modern astrologers who work with modern planets will often use so-called "accidental" house cusp rulers or "lords." Here a simple affinity is beside the point. One has to see how an asteroid or new planet works in action. The principle here is that if you wish to see how a specific house works [and notably if it is untenanted] you look to the planet that rules the sign on the house cusp. Its own position by house and aspects will tell you a lot about how that specific house functions. So a lot of research is needed. For example, if I arbitrarily assign Chiron as the ruler of Sagittarius and have Sag as the sign on my 2nd house cusp, I would then look to Chiron by its own house placement [possibly in the 11th] and aspects [possibly squaring Venus and trining Saturn] to get some sense of how money works in my life.

If I run this kind of diagnostic on 100 charts of known individuals and find Chiron works pretty well, then I've got something. But if it doesn't seem to work, let alone if it doesn't work as well as Jupiter, the traditional ruler of Sag, then I chuck the notion of Chiron as Sag's modern ruler.

Ditto if I try out Chiron as the ruler of Virgo, or any other sign.

Some horary astrologers do use modern planets, so again, you would have to see how Chiron works in interpreting horary charts.

Also, all planets have positive and negative expressions, even the "benefics." So it is important to delineate the negative as well as the positive.

Also, we have to be careful about using the houses of "birth charts" of the discovery of planets and asteroids as saying anything meaningful about them. Until modern satellite/space telescopes were developed, all new bodies had to be discovered using night-time observations or [subsequently] photographs. With the early-discovered asteroids like Ceres, the available technology of the 1800s meant that the asteroids had to be discovered close to the zenith/MC. You just couldn't have a heavenly body discovery with the sun above or near the horizon because the sunlight would render it invisible.

Also, many new bodies probably need several discovery charts, not just one. For example, Pluto was "known" due to its gravitational pull prior to its actual observation. The photographs on which its 1930 discovery was based were taken at night (naturally!) but then the astronomer found it on the photos when he studied them later the next day. Then he had to rephotograph that sector of the heavens to ensure that Pluto moved relative to the fixed stars in its visual field.

So new modern rulers are a real possibility. But they require a lot of research for a convincing case to be made. In terms of mythology, Ceres works far better for me as the modern ruler of Virgo, as the links were made explicit by some of the classical authors like Manilius.
 

C1

Well-known member
By the way, is it only my opinion that Chiron does not signify causality of wounds? Chiron is doing so much in the present triple conjunction with Jupiter and Neptune...it's deep and healing!

Thanks for many insights and illuminations, Shining Ray!
Are you the astrologer at the fairgrounds, and
how do I get there for a reading?


Seriously, these points you make are well-taken and your thoughts and words shine. Merc/Virgo
energies and qualities of organization, clarity and mind/body balancing are delightful insights: Mercury illuminates.

Mercury is suitable for ruling two signs, Virgo as a sign is known for it's analyzing skills, and mental sifting of information, useful, not useful, where to put this, and how best to use this energy. A very good evaluator in that sense. Virgo is an introspective energy and Mercury has both rulership and exaltation in Virgo, and provides Mercury with more concentration, than it has in distractible, extrovert, and playful Gemini. Balancing mind and body is the archetypal meaning behind Virgo. The body is neglected over the mind or vice versa. Mercury still displays a restless nature in Virgo, with it's need to purify, develop new skills, and to categorize information. The sign is busy and useful, and needs to be productive as all earth signs do. The ultimate aim of Virgo is to live a useful existence, and to be of meaningful service. According to Jung, Hermes represents the light that the intellect sheds to illume the dark world. In Virgo our analytical and reasoning powers help us shed light upon difficult situations, we order the personality in Virgo. I personally think Mercury has a powerful rulership over Virgo.


And thank you, Waybread, for your comment re: ancient astrologers assigning affinity, and suggesting modern rulership of Virgo by Ceres...

wouldn't others agree here?

Anyway, thanks so very much.

C1
 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
As others have noted above, assigning a modern ruler to a sign on the basis of an affinity--whether modern or mythological--is only part of the story.

I don't think traditional astrologers would ever be convinced because there just isn't room in their system of dignities and debilities for new planets. They're "full up", so to speak.

I'd like to expand on this. Firstly, mythological or modern "affinity" isn't even a part of the story of the original philosophy of sign rulership. I can really only think of one planet who has something that could be considered "affinity" with its signs or rulership.

However, the traditional system being "full up" isn't the big reason behind the resistance, but because there's no good reason to cut one sign from one planet considering both signs the Five planets rule are assigned to them for the exact same reasons. Gemini and Virgo were given to Mercury for the same reasons, so saying Mercury no longer fits with Virgo means it no longer fits with Gemini, since the same reasoning was given for both assignments. If that's the case, then Mercury isn't fit to rule anything, and should just fall off the map entirely. Hope that makes sense.
 

waybread

Well-known member
KnS, do you refer the the following traditional scheme of planet/sign rulerships?

For anyone unfamiliar with it, visualize it as a branching system, with sun/Leo and Moon/Cancer at the head, and then planets being placed in descending order according to their spatial distance from the sun; and signs being ordered according to their temporal distance from the moon/sun-ruled pair.

sun=Leo///moon=Cancer
Mercury=Virgo, Gemini
Venus=Libra, Taurus
Mars=Scorpio*, Aries
Jupiter=Sagittarius, Pisces*
Saturn=Capricorn, Aquarius*

[*Infill, if you like the modern rulers of Scorpio, Pisces, and Aquarius.] So for modern astrologers, this scheme doesn't mean you couldn't tag on a modern ruler, as well; as was done when Pluto, Neptune, and Uranus were discovered.
 
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